Man, that graphics engine is in serious need of an overhaul. Too bad, they can't pause long enough between kicking the next one out the door to upgrade it.
Whats the point in doing a totally new graphics overhaul now, when the next generation machines are going to be here soon enough? Makes more sense to work on a "next gen" COD ready for when they come out, and just do this now.
I have to say, top marks to TA for trying something different.
Whats the point in doing a totally new graphics overhaul now, when the next generation machines are going to be here soon enough? Makes more sense to work on a "next gen" COD ready for when they come out, and just do this now.
Man, that graphics engine is in serious need of an overhaul. Too bad, they can't pause long enough between kicking the next one out the door to upgrade it.
They should have done it on the last one. But my point is that they kick out these COD games so fast, they never have time to implement a new engine. And I haven't heard of new consoles coming any time soon.
They should have done it on the last one. But my point is that they kick out these COD games so fast, they never have time to implement a new engine. And I haven't heard of new consoles coming any time soon.
There has always been small improvements to the engine along the way. Not huge drastic we went from radiant to crytek shifts but vast improvements.
If you really go back and look at some stuff from COD4: MW and compare MW3 and this fall Black Ops: 2 you can see quite a difference.
If you haven't heard anything about new consoles coming then I don't know what to tell ya. While a street date and official details have not yet been announced the rumors have been out for a while now. We are at or close to the end of the current consoles and while having a new engine to push graphics and other tech would be nice it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go that route does it?
The first time a COD game isn't released in the fall the fans will go nuts. So skipping a year or whatever really isn't too feasible.
Man.. you know what had a great multiplayer? COD:2. I used to play hours upon hours on custom servers where everyone played fair and was nice to each other. Super fun and competitive. ^_^
Whats the point in doing a totally new graphics overhaul now, when the next generation machines are going to be here soon enough? Makes more sense to work on a "next gen" COD ready for when they come out, and just do this now.
I have to say, top marks to TA for trying something different.
"Let's just be good enough." A financially smart mindset to be in but one I'd wish more developers would move away from. There's a large magnitude of benefits to early adoption to new technology one can take to ensure that when the next generation of console hits your efforts weren't in vain.
I feel like I'm shitty on Treyarch here, but I'm really just trying to speak to our industry in general.
I watched the interactive bit again and it's really nice how they've actually incorporated tech based on what seems feasible within the next 10-15 years, like the "Dog" mechs and mostly unarmed drones, instead of just picking things that will never be used like in 2142.
Or not, I've been sober from cod since mw3 came out, finally broke the habit.
... The last one looked terrific. Maybe you need a new PC, or are playing on a console? I was frequently taken aback by how great it looked. It was my first TA CoD and I was seriously impressed that there were so many skins per weapon etc.
Good to hear they are changing the game design a little, would be interested to see what that ends up like.
ae. We'd get even more map content if developers released editing tools instead of opting not to because they can't make any immediate profit from it.
As for what they've put into call of duty elite, HL could do that with a simple server log program and the practically dead TFC community has an automated bot that runs the pickup 4v4 channel / puts the data from the server log after each match into a nice clear breakdown with overall statistics from every game youve played as well as uploading HLTV's to webspace.
This was available 10 years ago... what?
And I like how you've worded that ambershee, perhaps when its typed up so clearly like that people will understand its potential impact.
The first time a COD game isn't released in the fall the fans will go nuts. So skipping a year or whatever really isn't too feasible.
People who are into COD dont care about a new COD every year, they just want new Maps. The single player isnt why millions buy and play COD, its the multiplayer.
Also I just want to point out, Jesse I know you just got a job at Treyarch and all and you could have always felt this way about COD before but honestly you are coming off as someone who is just being really defensive about your new company no matter the flaws. There are flaws with the design, art and repetition of the game, just as there is with any game. As a developer you have to listen too constructive feedback and use that to make the game better. Not get super defensive of a product your new co-works/studio has been making.
Some of the comments here are of course ridiculous like paying for reviews of COD? What is this 4chan? Come on, grow up please. But there are good points like "just being good enough" that should be listened too. I think its easier to just bow out of discussion threads about a game your working on because since its a game your working on, you just become defensive and it just leads to back and forth of people hating on it, and the developer trying to convince them that there right and the other person is wrong. Which of course leads no where.
I've always been a fan of COD and never understood the blatent hate (like Transformers or any Michael Bay film is the same) so it's not just working here. Are there things to fix? Oh hell yeah there are a lot of things that could be improved just like any other game has it's issues.
I would LOVE to push visuals to the limit and go all nuts on stuff like guys at Epic do with Gears and have things looking like BF3 in terms of lighting and such. I mean I can't say a ton about what we are doing but playing it and seeing the behind the scenes now and being a part of trying to make it look better is awesome. I can only say so much without risking getting shit on from my new job because well I am the FNG here and I'm just trying to make bad ass art in any way I can.
I know having to run at 60fps and with our dated engine we have many limitations. I for one would LOVE to have a full 2 1/2 - 3 years to build a new title. Just go nuts on it and make it look amazing and try some new things, but I'm not the guy that makes those choices.
Do I think it's pushed out and we think it's good enough? No, way. I know everyone here is trying new ways to build things and improve upon things with what we have and what we are afforded. There are some very awesome surprises coming for SP and I hope people will actually see the changes that have been made and what we have tried to push.
I like seeing the feedback because it drives me to work harder on this and push it further, just some people seem to hate it because it's popular or because it makes money and that seems like a growing trend.
apart from that, i agree Jfletcher, it does look uninspired, but this is where i get worried and reference the point Jesse brought up about the "business" side of things. This is what the business side of things inevitably leads to, a point where the creativity tank starts to show it's limits.
I mean, let's be realistic, when it comes to projects and IPs there's a finite amount of excitement and inspiration that you can call up. Having to Renew that ONE specific project every year or so has to be some huge burden to some people, especially having the possibility of it being horrible. it also shows the little respect the business side has for artists.
I think, at this point we should start talking about how cruel this business practice is to artists, i would want to blow my brains off working on call of duty year after year, that's not art anymore.
apart from that, i agree Jfletcher, it does look uninspired, but this is where i get worried and reference the point Jesse brought up about the "business" side of things. This is what the business side of things inevitably leads to, a point where the creativity tank starts to show it's limits.
I mean, let's be realistic, when it comes to projects and IPs there's a finite amount of excitement and inspiration that you can call up. Having to Renew that ONE specific project every year or so has to be some huge burden to some people, especially having the possibility of it being horrible. it also shows the little respect the business side has for artists.
I think, at this point we should start talking about how cruel this business practice is to artists, i would want to blow my brains off working on call of duty year after year, that's not art anymore.
I'm not talking about it being uninspired in the sense that they aren't innovating or doing things new, because they are doing things new.
I'm saying that it's their approach to a post modern war has little to no inspiration. Clearly they are willing to make this leap, I just feel they didn't take anything from a vast pool of reference and style that is already out there, which could have made the game monumentally better.
Think Mirror's edge, clean, stylized architecture. You see a glimpse of this at the start of the trailer with the landing craft, this really got my hopes up.
Then they proceed to show a concrete rubble-fest in brown tinted Los Angeles.
They had the chance to blow everyone out of the water with this, and they failed,
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the artists have done a bad job, I'm saying there's no inspiration to the theme to the point where they may as well have not even gone post modern at all.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the artists have done a bad job, I'm saying there's no inspiration to the theme to the point where they may as well have not even gone post modern at all.
well, it's 2012, aren't we supposed to be wearing silver jumpsuits and driving around in flying cars by now?
well, it's 2012, aren't we supposed to be wearing silver jumpsuits and driving around in flying cars by now?
I wish that when you play the game it doesn't look outdated... that is all. Playing MW3 just felt old... and all the textures in that game were soo muddy.
I didn't buy at the end of the day MW3.... and i barely played Black Ops after i finished the campaing.. it just wasn't that much fun anymore. Hopefully this will turn out for the best.
I'm not talking about it being uninspired in the sense that they aren't innovating or doing things new, because they are doing things new.
I'm saying that it's their approach to a post modern war has little to no inspiration. Clearly they are willing to make this leap, I just feel they didn't take anything from a vast pool of reference and style that is already out there, which could have made the game monumentally better.
Think Mirror's edge, clean, stylized architecture. You see a glimpse of this at the start of the trailer with the landing craft, this really got my hopes up.
Then they proceed to show a concrete rubble-fest in brown tinted Los Angeles.
They had the chance to blow everyone out of the water with this, and they failed,
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the artists have done a bad job, I'm saying there's no inspiration to the theme to the point where they may as well have not even gone post modern at all.
I agree, i'm not saying that the artist's did a bad job either, the visuals look great. But, like you said the setting it self is just, meh. but this is where i brought up the "business" model point.
how much leeway do they have with a game of this size? I mean, it has to be super constricted, at least i would think? and then to make a leap like this and be restrained by "playing it safe" hurts the overall art direction. Everything that i saw that was "techy" felt like they were imported from other games. so with that said i would be skeptical to go ahead and say that this is "inspired" because it changed the setting. (hope that makes some sense)
Well well, no matter what you guys think about the aesthetics and gameplay of said franchise the game is probably going to sell loads. I read somewhere that they've already go 30% more preorders than mw3, which if I recall correctly was the most preordered game to date.
If those 'sci-fi' tech items do what they are shown to do in the trailer, then I would say this version of COD is certainly trying to spice things up.
But again, I just wish they would make the SP portion of the game a trainer of sorts with a story, not an endless hallways of keep pushing or more enemies will spawn out of thing air, teach the player offline so he will know the ropes online.
I'll be honest: I am a COD MP junky. sometimes i just want to sit down and shoot everything that moves and not think about a DAMN thing for 45 minutes or so. And as rotten as the person to person interaction has gotten with all the total winners playing that game I do love beating the living crap out of people with a throwing knife and an FN FAL.
i suspect that had a lot to do with why i didn't care for MW3 so much...they got rid of my favorite gun.
And if you don't like the business model for the DLC's and Elite - Don't pay for it. I've been playing pretty regularly (though less so lately) and I haven't bought a map pack since MW2's first set.
I also haven't played COD single player since COD2...
That being said: i probably won't buy this game unless i find myself with extra money...which is rare.
Roots? What are the roots? You just named a WW2 based game and a Modern Combat.... The franchise has spanned from WW2 to present day. What do you mean?
That treaty of Versailles man... total ball ache. why couldn't they just let the world war in peace?!
CODs always look well made and polished, shame about the actual gameplay and storyline, even the multiplayer has gone downhill. I'm all for trying out new things as the series progresses, but I felt after COD4 that they just tried to do too much, they also messed with the layout of the multiplayer maps, and imo it made the games unbalanced. They took suggestions on twitter for what should be added to MW2 and they just seemed to add too much that wasn't needed. You can barely even see the screen when you're playing multiplayer for all the stuff flying up at you every time you kill someone.
I wouldn't mind all the DLC maps etc, if it wasn't for the fact that they bring out a new game every year. Why spend all that money buying new maps when you know another COD is right around the corner? From a business perspective, of course it makes sense to make as much money as possible out of your customers, but from a customers perspective, I'm tired of the 'Hollywoodisation' of video games such as this, where everything just boils down to numbers or dollars, without much consideration for what effect that has on the customer. I'd rather a company spent a few years refining a game and coming up with better storylines and characters, and the emphasis was shifted from the easiest way to make as much money as possible, to how can we make the gameplay more enjoyable, how can we refresh this franchise, or how can we make this a better experience for the customer. The MGS series is a case in point. As opposed to just giving us a few more guns, maps, and throwing in a few set piece explosions in the single player. The COD series needs a break and then a reboot.
I played COD4 online religiously for years and it was probably the best gaming experience of my life, the rest of the games I've just completed the single player then left them, the only redeeming aspect of MW2/MW3 was the co-op modes, which were refreshing, and put and emphasis on being more tactical.
That's just my opinion, I'm not just a flat out COD hater, if you still like the games then great. I just feel they need to think about what made COD4 so great compared to COD3, it wasn't that they added more guns or maps or explosions, it was because they took all the good points from COD3, reinvented it and made it fresh.
I love CoD games just for the pure spectacle of them.
I don't play the multiplayer at all.. I'll buy a game, play the single player campaign, and then uninstall/shelve it and wait for the next game to come out the following year. The campaigns are short enough not to detract too much of my time from working on art, but long enough that I don't feel cheated.
the pc game is only dx 11? whats up with that? don't mean to be a hater, but... why narrow your market, when games that can run dx9 up have a better chance to be played. I'll never understand why make a game that only a few computers can run, when you can make something that looks pretty awesome that runs on more machines...
apart from that... ps3 version looks as always pretty low res and muddy... i wish they would dump some extra money to make parallel skus worth while.
I am sure the work done is great, and i am excited to see how it plays out. Congrats to you guys that work so hard on the game.
i do love Just Cause 2... and i guess that game you can see the advantages of DX10... i am sure they have a good reason for dx11 here... but at the same time... we'll have to see how the game looks. but i agree... weird that the lead sku is 360, and pc is only dx11.
Orange, I think it is much safer than it is often said to be. I've been playing MW3 almost every other day for the past 6 months and never ended up in unfair/broken matches.
Replies
OMG from the Giantbombcast:
"the sound guys had a circuit bent Speak & Math" I approve!
I have to say, top marks to TA for trying something different.
Yes this exactly
They should have done it on the last one. But my point is that they kick out these COD games so fast, they never have time to implement a new engine. And I haven't heard of new consoles coming any time soon.
A next gen looking COD as a launch title... Yeah, I can see that flopping, big time
There has always been small improvements to the engine along the way. Not huge drastic we went from radiant to crytek shifts but vast improvements.
If you really go back and look at some stuff from COD4: MW and compare MW3 and this fall Black Ops: 2 you can see quite a difference.
If you haven't heard anything about new consoles coming then I don't know what to tell ya. While a street date and official details have not yet been announced the rumors have been out for a while now. We are at or close to the end of the current consoles and while having a new engine to push graphics and other tech would be nice it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go that route does it?
The first time a COD game isn't released in the fall the fans will go nuts. So skipping a year or whatever really isn't too feasible.
I hope there's post-nuclear ash / snow in it, like BF 2142.
Def read this article if you got time. It talks more about what we are trying to do. I think it's awesome... Then again I guess I should
"Let's just be good enough." A financially smart mindset to be in but one I'd wish more developers would move away from. There's a large magnitude of benefits to early adoption to new technology one can take to ensure that when the next generation of console hits your efforts weren't in vain.
I feel like I'm shitty on Treyarch here, but I'm really just trying to speak to our industry in general.
Or not, I've been sober from cod since mw3 came out, finally broke the habit.
... The last one looked terrific. Maybe you need a new PC, or are playing on a console? I was frequently taken aback by how great it looked. It was my first TA CoD and I was seriously impressed that there were so many skins per weapon etc.
Good to hear they are changing the game design a little, would be interested to see what that ends up like.
As for what they've put into call of duty elite, HL could do that with a simple server log program and the practically dead TFC community has an automated bot that runs the pickup 4v4 channel / puts the data from the server log after each match into a nice clear breakdown with overall statistics from every game youve played as well as uploading HLTV's to webspace.
This was available 10 years ago... what?
And I like how you've worded that ambershee, perhaps when its typed up so clearly like that people will understand its potential impact.
People who are into COD dont care about a new COD every year, they just want new Maps. The single player isnt why millions buy and play COD, its the multiplayer.
Also I just want to point out, Jesse I know you just got a job at Treyarch and all and you could have always felt this way about COD before but honestly you are coming off as someone who is just being really defensive about your new company no matter the flaws. There are flaws with the design, art and repetition of the game, just as there is with any game. As a developer you have to listen too constructive feedback and use that to make the game better. Not get super defensive of a product your new co-works/studio has been making.
Some of the comments here are of course ridiculous like paying for reviews of COD? What is this 4chan? Come on, grow up please. But there are good points like "just being good enough" that should be listened too. I think its easier to just bow out of discussion threads about a game your working on because since its a game your working on, you just become defensive and it just leads to back and forth of people hating on it, and the developer trying to convince them that there right and the other person is wrong. Which of course leads no where.
Just an observation of course
I've always been a fan of COD and never understood the blatent hate (like Transformers or any Michael Bay film is the same) so it's not just working here. Are there things to fix? Oh hell yeah there are a lot of things that could be improved just like any other game has it's issues.
I would LOVE to push visuals to the limit and go all nuts on stuff like guys at Epic do with Gears and have things looking like BF3 in terms of lighting and such. I mean I can't say a ton about what we are doing but playing it and seeing the behind the scenes now and being a part of trying to make it look better is awesome. I can only say so much without risking getting shit on from my new job because well I am the FNG here and I'm just trying to make bad ass art in any way I can.
I know having to run at 60fps and with our dated engine we have many limitations. I for one would LOVE to have a full 2 1/2 - 3 years to build a new title. Just go nuts on it and make it look amazing and try some new things, but I'm not the guy that makes those choices.
Do I think it's pushed out and we think it's good enough? No, way. I know everyone here is trying new ways to build things and improve upon things with what we have and what we are afforded. There are some very awesome surprises coming for SP and I hope people will actually see the changes that have been made and what we have tried to push.
I like seeing the feedback because it drives me to work harder on this and push it further, just some people seem to hate it because it's popular or because it makes money and that seems like a growing trend.
apart from that, i agree Jfletcher, it does look uninspired, but this is where i get worried and reference the point Jesse brought up about the "business" side of things. This is what the business side of things inevitably leads to, a point where the creativity tank starts to show it's limits.
I mean, let's be realistic, when it comes to projects and IPs there's a finite amount of excitement and inspiration that you can call up. Having to Renew that ONE specific project every year or so has to be some huge burden to some people, especially having the possibility of it being horrible. it also shows the little respect the business side has for artists.
I think, at this point we should start talking about how cruel this business practice is to artists, i would want to blow my brains off working on call of duty year after year, that's not art anymore.
[ame="
between 80's Rambo 3 flashbacks and sexed-up zombie mode this is the first release I've been interested in since the original
I'm not talking about it being uninspired in the sense that they aren't innovating or doing things new, because they are doing things new.
I'm saying that it's their approach to a post modern war has little to no inspiration. Clearly they are willing to make this leap, I just feel they didn't take anything from a vast pool of reference and style that is already out there, which could have made the game monumentally better.
Think Mirror's edge, clean, stylized architecture. You see a glimpse of this at the start of the trailer with the landing craft, this really got my hopes up.
Then they proceed to show a concrete rubble-fest in brown tinted Los Angeles.
They had the chance to blow everyone out of the water with this, and they failed,
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the artists have done a bad job, I'm saying there's no inspiration to the theme to the point where they may as well have not even gone post modern at all.
well, it's 2012, aren't we supposed to be wearing silver jumpsuits and driving around in flying cars by now?
I wish that when you play the game it doesn't look outdated... that is all. Playing MW3 just felt old... and all the textures in that game were soo muddy.
I didn't buy at the end of the day MW3.... and i barely played Black Ops after i finished the campaing.. it just wasn't that much fun anymore. Hopefully this will turn out for the best.
I agree, i'm not saying that the artist's did a bad job either, the visuals look great. But, like you said the setting it self is just, meh. but this is where i brought up the "business" model point.
how much leeway do they have with a game of this size? I mean, it has to be super constricted, at least i would think? and then to make a leap like this and be restrained by "playing it safe" hurts the overall art direction. Everything that i saw that was "techy" felt like they were imported from other games. so with that said i would be skeptical to go ahead and say that this is "inspired" because it changed the setting. (hope that makes some sense)
[ame="
But again, I just wish they would make the SP portion of the game a trainer of sorts with a story, not an endless hallways of keep pushing or more enemies will spawn out of thing air, teach the player offline so he will know the ropes online.
i suspect that had a lot to do with why i didn't care for MW3 so much...they got rid of my favorite gun.
And if you don't like the business model for the DLC's and Elite - Don't pay for it. I've been playing pretty regularly (though less so lately) and I haven't bought a map pack since MW2's first set.
I also haven't played COD single player since COD2...
That being said: i probably won't buy this game unless i find myself with extra money...which is rare.
Seems pretty neat.
That treaty of Versailles man... total ball ache. why couldn't they just let the world war in peace?!
I wouldn't mind all the DLC maps etc, if it wasn't for the fact that they bring out a new game every year. Why spend all that money buying new maps when you know another COD is right around the corner? From a business perspective, of course it makes sense to make as much money as possible out of your customers, but from a customers perspective, I'm tired of the 'Hollywoodisation' of video games such as this, where everything just boils down to numbers or dollars, without much consideration for what effect that has on the customer. I'd rather a company spent a few years refining a game and coming up with better storylines and characters, and the emphasis was shifted from the easiest way to make as much money as possible, to how can we make the gameplay more enjoyable, how can we refresh this franchise, or how can we make this a better experience for the customer. The MGS series is a case in point. As opposed to just giving us a few more guns, maps, and throwing in a few set piece explosions in the single player. The COD series needs a break and then a reboot.
I played COD4 online religiously for years and it was probably the best gaming experience of my life, the rest of the games I've just completed the single player then left them, the only redeeming aspect of MW2/MW3 was the co-op modes, which were refreshing, and put and emphasis on being more tactical.
That's just my opinion, I'm not just a flat out COD hater, if you still like the games then great. I just feel they need to think about what made COD4 so great compared to COD3, it wasn't that they added more guns or maps or explosions, it was because they took all the good points from COD3, reinvented it and made it fresh.
http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/yg86ez/gt-tv-call-of-duty--black-ops-ii?xrs=share_fb
and
http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/12/black_ops_2_zombies_the_horde_approaches/
Some new info on our game!!!
Our new live action trailer is out now. Check it out.
Link fixed
Indeed!
I don't play the multiplayer at all.. I'll buy a game, play the single player campaign, and then uninstall/shelve it and wait for the next game to come out the following year. The campaigns are short enough not to detract too much of my time from working on art, but long enough that I don't feel cheated.
Looking forward to Black Ops 2.
Graphics wise... all it's more of the same! cough cough.
It really has been awesome working here and being part of such a huge title. Look forward to playing with many of you!
apart from that... ps3 version looks as always pretty low res and muddy... i wish they would dump some extra money to make parallel skus worth while.
I am sure the work done is great, and i am excited to see how it plays out. Congrats to you guys that work so hard on the game.
Then if you go here or on Steam: http://community.callofduty.com/community/call_of_duty/english/black_ops_2/blog/2012/09/02/pc-specifications-technology-enhancements-intel
It lists a 8800GT which is a DX10 card.
Maybe what they mean to say is that they've dropped XP support.
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-geforce-310-54-beta-drivers-released
NVIDIA drivers for AC3 and BO2.
This looks different though so hopefully the PC version isn't gimped