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nDo2 BETA

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  • Quack!
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    Quack! polycounter lvl 17
    First version of nDo would load but had reported issues.

    Newest version of nDo shows the Quixel logo then crashes with a standard "nDo has stopped working" windows error. With or without Photoshop already open I get this error on CS4.
  • RictusGrin
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    Teddy, I'm still getting that same error with the new build.
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/ndolaunch.jpg/

    From the logs folder, the ndo txt file says this:
    06:55:57: nDo:INFO: Log Initialized
    06:55:57: nDo:INFO: Found compatible photoshop verion: .55
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Initializing Previewer...
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Found primary screen width size 1920x1200.
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Selection rectangle created.
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Parsing XAML...
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Initializing Renderer...
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: 3D Environment created: True
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Done
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Done
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Setting up context menu
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Shader watcher initialized.
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Settings watcher initialized.
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: PS Cache watcher initialized.
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Log watcher initialized.
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Delegates initialized
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Gradient Window Created
    06:55:59: nDo:INFO: Done initializing previewer
    06:56:00: nDo:INFO: Loaded context 'C:\nDo\data\Context\nDoContext1.xml'.
    06:56:00: nDo:INFO: Resized 3D Window: -1,-1

    Fbxloader says:

    06:55:59: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for this FBX SDK is 7.2.0
    06:55:59: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for file C:\nDo\data\FBX\plane.fbx is 6.1.0
    06:55:59: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for this FBX SDK is 7.2.0
    06:55:59: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for file C:\nDo\data\FBX\cube.fbx is 6.1.0
    06:55:59: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for this FBX SDK is 7.2.0
    06:55:59: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for file C:\nDo\data\FBX\sphere.fbx is 6.1.0
    06:55:59: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for this FBX SDK is 7.2.0
    06:55:59: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for file C:\nDo\data\FBX\cylinder.fbx is 6.1.0

    Ehdx
    06:55:59: EHDX:INFO: Found a device with the following settings:
    06:55:59: EHDX:INFO: HAL (hw vp): NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570(0)


    The rest are blank.
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    ya the old beta would load but give me no liscnes stuff and just run and now the new version just crashes on startup, dosnt matter of PS is running or not.
  • teddybergsman
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    RictusGrin,
    Your log is incredibly useful to us. Thank you! We're investigating your issue

    passerby
    I'm incredibly sorry to hear this. We're trying to fix this issue as we speak. Meanwhile, here is a direct link to the previous beta version which was working for you: nDo2 v0.0.2.8

    Note: For all of you getting a crash, look for the text log in the same folder you find your nDo.exe -- this gives us a great chance to solve your issues.

    Our sincerest apologies for the issues you are experiencing, and huge thanks everyone for reporting. Your support is invaluable.
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    RictusGrin,
    Your log is incredibly useful to us. Thank you! We're investigating your issue

    passerby
    I'm incredibly sorry to hear this. We're trying to fix this issue as we speak. Meanwhile, here is a direct link to the previous beta version which was working for you: nDo2 v0.0.2.8

    Note: For all of you getting a crash, look for the text log in the same folder you find your nDo.exe -- this gives us a great chance to solve your issues.

    Our sincerest apologies for the issues you are experiencing, and huge thanks everyone for reporting. Your support is invaluable.

    thanks im not able to get a log from the crash of the latest version, it just shows the splash screen for a split 2nd than crashes without writing a log the the exe's directory.

    is there anywhere else i should look to find some information for you?

    btw i was running it right off my desktop, and i run win7 64bit with UAC disabled, and run it with PS CS5 64bit, and dont have PS 32bit installed.

    if there are any logs you need or more info about my system let me know.

    love this software and want to see it bugless and want to see you guys do well with it.
  • teddybergsman
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    passerby,
    Thank you so much for the detailed information -- this is about as much as you can give us in the absence of a log. I suppose you are running nDo2 x64 with your 64-bit PS -- have you tried extracting the files anywhere else on disk (C:/ for instance), does that make a difference at all? The best of luck to the both of us. :)
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    passerby,
    Thank you so much for the detailed information -- this is about as much as you can give us in the absence of a log. I suppose you are running nDo2 x64 with your 64-bit PS -- have you tried extracting the files anywhere else on disk (C:/ for instance), does that make a difference at all? The best of luck to the both of us. :)

    makes no difference where it is located, it just crashes right after the splash screen before it trys to launch PS
  • Denny
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    Denny polycounter lvl 14
    I might have found the solution. See bottom. :)
    ndo.log wrote:
    19:19:53: nDo:INFO: Log Initialized
    19:19:53: nDo:INFO: Connected to photoshop, version: .12
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Initializing Previewer...
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Found primary screen width size 1920x1080.
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Selection rectangle created.
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Parsing XAML...
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Initializing Renderer...
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: 3D Environment created: True
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Done
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Done
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Setting up context menu
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Shader watcher initialized.
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Settings watcher initialized.
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: PS Cache watcher initialized.
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Log watcher initialized.
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Delegates initialized
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Gradient Window Created
    19:19:56: nDo:INFO: Done initializing previewer
    19:19:57: nDo:INFO: Loaded context 'C:\nDo2BETA\nDo\data\Context\nDoContext1.xml'.
    19:19:57: nDo:INFO: Resized 3D Window: -1,-1
    19:19:56: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for this FBX SDK is 7.2.0
    19:19:56: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for file C:\nDo2BETA\nDo\data\FBX\plane.fbx is 6.1.0
    19:19:56: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for this FBX SDK is 7.2.0
    19:19:56: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for file C:\nDo2BETA\nDo\data\FBX\cube.fbx is 6.1.0
    19:19:56: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for this FBX SDK is 7.2.0
    19:19:56: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for file C:\nDo2BETA\nDo\data\FBX\sphere.fbx is 6.1.0
    19:19:56: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for this FBX SDK is 7.2.0
    19:19:56: fbxloader:INFO: FBX version number for file C:\nDo2BETA\nDo\data\FBX\cylinder.fbx is 6.1.0
    ehdx.log wrote:
    19:19:56: EHDX:INFO: Found a device with the following settings:
    19:19:56: EHDX:INFO: HAL (hw vp): ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series (0)

    Win7 64-bit, ATI Radeon 5830 with day fresh drivers, all prerequisites listed at Quixel.se installed, Photoshop CS5 12.0.4 64-bit

    As you can see I have very similar problems to other people here. I start nDo.exe, the application starts fine but it crashes at any action taken.

    Right Click nDo.exe -> Run as administrator! (or right click -> properties -> compatibility -> check Run As Administrator for permanent setting) For some reason it does not get enough priviliges despite being run under the admin account and being installed in C: \nDo\. I hope this helps!
  • Mike_Carlyle
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    Mike_Carlyle polycounter lvl 17
    The new Beta release is crashing on start up here as well. I also tried running as admin. like Denny recommended, and I had no luck.
  • Denny
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    Denny polycounter lvl 14
    I don't think my solution works for the startup crash. It helps for the crash that's related to any action taken inside nDo. Have you tried installing nDo on C: \ndo?
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    did a bit of messing about and i was able to get the 32bit version working and playing along with PS even know my OS and PS are 64bit.
  • RictusGrin
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    I tried running both 32 and 64 bit
    tried both using run admin on the Ndo.exes

    Problem still exists
  • LATTEH
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    what i have to pay for it now? D:
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    LATTEH wrote: »
    what i have to pay for it now? D:

    Ndo 1 is still free. Ted took 8 months off of work to create Ndo 2 and has created something amazing so I don't get why you expect it to be free.
  • teddybergsman
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    Guys, you are amazing. Thank you for helping each other out, and for trying to find solutions to the problems you are experiencing -- and for sharing those solutions. We've been working all day now trying to get to the root of these issues based on your feedback, and we're now starting to see the light.

    As soon as we have something new for you we'll let you know, both officially and personally. Just a disclaimer here that our next release might not solve all start-up crashes, but it will help us track the most vicious bugs.

    Thank you!
  • Andr
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    Oh man! I have to try this ASAP! I loved the first nDo.

    Congratulations on the new release, may many more come :).

    - Andr
  • Quack!
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    Quack! polycounter lvl 17
    Guys, you are amazing. Thank you for helping each other out, and for trying to find solutions to the problems you are experiencing -- and for sharing those solutions. We've been working all day now trying to get to the root of these issues based on your feedback, and we're now starting to see the light.

    As soon as we have something new for you we'll let you know, both officially and personally. Just a disclaimer here that our next release might not solve all start-up crashes, but it will help us track the most vicious bugs.

    Thank you!

    Awesome thanks Teddy, can't wait till I can use this sucka!
  • teddybergsman
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    Hi guys,

    Download the nDo2 Crash-fix Bonanza!

    If you haven't registered your copy yet, do it here!

    This time around we’ve been digging deep, on a mission to kill every crash ever reported. We’ve been debugging and verifying for days now, and we're hoping nDo2 should now be stabilized:
    • Fixed all start-up crashes
    • Fixed crash when creating new normal, and all other PS connection related crashes
    • Added extensive user-friendly trouble-shooting information
    With this release out of the way we now have a 100% focus on your feature requests -- nothing else -- for three weeks. Go nuts!!!

    Should you still get issues see this FAQ or grab me.

    nDo2's been out for a few days now, and I'm stoked to see all the fantastic art starting to drop in. Check out Wiktor Öhman's nDo2 piece:

    deusEx.jpg

    Until next time!
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    The only request I have right now is more presets!
  • teddybergsman
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    Zipfinator,
    Coincidentally the new preset system is on the top of tomorrow's task list. The idea is to make preset creation and sharing an efficient experience, who knows, soon enough there might be a whole bunch of fun user created presets to play with :)
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 14
    I have played around with nDo2 for a couple of hours and i still have quite a hard time gripping how i should go about making a specific shape/detail layer. I'm talking about photo normals, and making layer by layer to build up a nice normalmap.

    In the future it would be cool with a small tutorial explaining how to achive one specific shape at the time.
  • RictusGrin
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    Hi Teddy,

    Still have the same issue.
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/ndolaunch.jpg/

    There is a small difference. When I run nDO's latest build, I get a "Visual Studio Runtime is missing" dialog box.

    I tried the following at this point:
    I downloaded Visual Studio 2010 (both 32 and 64bit)
    I install
    It asks me do I want to remove or repair? (so it's already installed)
    I decided to remove it and reinstall both with no issues.

    I run Ndo again and it gives me the same dialogue box about needing Visual Studio runtime.

    Upon pressing the New normal button I get "Failed to execute command to Photoshop, indicating a failed connection to Photoshop". < I think there should be a button here that collect error logs and sends them to you guys. Just a thought.

    Also, please note that I have the latest version of DX installed. And have tried running both versions.
  • kodde
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    kodde polycounter lvl 18
    Loving it so far.

    sltrOlsson> It should auto-recognize what you are trying to convert to normals. I just followed the "Run-down". Some things I had to figure out as I went. I think for instance to convert a rasterized layer (a "photo") you need to fill the entire document with a base color, otherwise it would not recognize it as a "photo". Probably need to fill the entire document bounds? To blend several normal map details just use the Overlay blending mode.

    I used photo, shapes and text several times for a small test-project of mine to try nDo2.
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    is there a way to lock normal layers together so you can edit multiple ones at once?
  • teddybergsman
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    passerby,
    Normal multi-editing is not in as of yet, but it's in the backlog.

    kodde,
    Thanks for sharing your project! You're right, for a normal to be interpreted as "Photo", it should cover the entire document bounds. However "Photo" is just a name tag -- a normal is still a normal, regardless of tag. The only difference with a "Photo" input, is that during the conversion process you are presented with the option to make the normal tilable or loose its edge bevels.

    RictusGrin,
    If you only knew how much we appreciate your extensive and many descriptions of your issue. I'm very sorry this has not been resolved for you yet, I know you've put a great deal of time into this now. Your problem is one of a kind, and half of Quixel are now currently making all efforts to solve this for you. It's quite a cocktail of conundrums. We're now adding your suggested option to send error/crash logs, and it will come with the next release.

    sltrOlsson,
    A video tutorial is in the pipeline, and it will cover the normal from photo workflow.

    The tutorial video is meant for you guys, and as it's still in the planning stages, feel free to voice any suggestions and we'll do our best to meet your needs!
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    would a option to have the 3d viewer start with ndo possible, u usually got maya or mamorset open on my 2nd display to preview texture and models anyways, so i very rareley use the 3d preview in ndo.
  • RictusGrin
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    RictusGrin,
    If you only knew how much we appreciate your extensive and many descriptions of your issue. I'm very sorry this has not been resolved for you yet, I know you've put a great deal of time into this now. Your problem is one of a kind, and half of Quixel are now currently making all efforts to solve this for you. It's quite a cocktail of conundrums. We're now adding your suggested option to send error/crash logs, and it will come with the next release.

    Teddy,
    You're welcome, I just hope my isolated case can fixed, I really dont want to be left out of not being able to use this awesome tool. Let me know if I can do anything else to troubleshoot.
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 14
    passerby wrote: »
    would a option to have the 3d viewer start with ndo possible, u usually got maya or mamorset open on my 2nd display to preview texture and models anyways, so i very rareley use the 3d preview in ndo.

    Well the difference here is that your unsaved, open nDo project is displayed on the fly. No waiting needed. It's a pretty big difference..
    sltrOlsson,
    A video tutorial is in the pipeline, and it will cover the normal from photo workflow.

    The tutorial video is meant for you guys, and as it's still in the planning stages, feel free to voice any suggestions and we'll do our best to meet your needs!

    Sounds great! I just want to grip 100% how to make my my photo into something very specific shape wise. And i mean on a layer level :)

    An explanation of what "nDo sees" would be helpful to. Black/white - Down/up, sure. But it's so much more going on here :)
  • Millenia
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    Millenia polycount sponsor
    Megavolume cliff preset always crashes for me :/
  • teddybergsman
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    Millenia,
    Thank you for reporting, I will look into it. What does the crash message say?

    sltrOlsson,
    Thanks for your suggestions. We'll be sure to explain how nDo2's normal engine works more in-depth!

    RictusGrin,
    We will not rest until it's solved, that's for sure :) We're doing a new release tomorrow which finally includes the installer, as well as fail-safer error handling. This will hopefully help us take the next important step towards solving your issue. You've done about every possible thing you can to assist us. Tomorrow, or when you have the time, together we can hopefully get a clearer picture of what's wrong.

    passerby,
    I understand it's not always desireable to have the previewer running by default on start-up, and that it would be handy with an option to easily toggle it on and off via the UI (and not through some hard-to-reach menu). We'll add this option.
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    sltrOlsson wrote: »
    Well the difference here is that your unsaved, open nDo project is displayed on the fly. No waiting needed. It's a pretty big difference..

    ya but also when you got a really complex normal map going with 20+ elemants it can take quite a long time to update, and later in my texturing job im mostly likley olny going to be tweaking my spec and gloss which i need a proper shader to get a good idea of what is happening.
  • teddybergsman
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    passerby,
    Very true -- and because of this, the "Zip" function exists. Zipping each finished normal layer speeds up Photoshop immensely and brings the file size down by 300% (6 layers are losslessly compressed into 2, and all expensive layer effects are disabled). You'll hopefully find that the previewer updates are much more instant once this technique is employed. Let me know how it works out for you!
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    ya will try that and it helps alot.

    is there a similar function for AO in ndo, i was trying to at one point to pop in the whole group into my main psd into both the diffuse and the spec so i could tweak it for both but it got pretty sluggish having them in hte main psd so i had to go back to working with the AO in a separate psd and doing a copy merged back into the right spots in my material psd.


    also would it be possible to have live updates for the diffuse, spec and gloss maps. i know a lot of people will work on all maps in one psd just in layer groups.

    or would that option be taking the tool to much away from being purely a normal tool, and maybe be too expensive.
  • Millenia
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    Millenia polycount sponsor
    Millenia,
    Thank you for reporting, I will look into it. What does the crash message say?

    It just closes, I tried checking the logs but I couldn't find anything related to a crash message D:
  • copyright
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    copyright polycounter lvl 7
    I used the beta for a wooden gate, and I do not know if I got the proper results...


    render: aaaa.jpg

    normal map: gate_normal.jpg

    I also used the AO converted from the normal map. I'm not sure if I got the proper results if anyone could comment on this that would be great thanks!
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    @copyright that seems to be more a question about the quality of your work rather than the app
  • copyright
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    copyright polycounter lvl 7
    My wood does not have those " dented areas " as generated in the normal map. Something went wrong with the generation.
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    @Copyright, nothing went wrong with the generation. It just looks like you didn't tweak it at all. The large details are way too strong which gives it that dented look. Try using the Standard preset and then tweak all of the layers until you get something that looks good.
  • teddybergsman
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    copyright,
    Thanks for posting your example! I'm sorry that there is no valuable information regarding the content creation process as of yet -- we're currently working on putting this together (in the form of video tutorials). I can understand that the workflow of normal generation is not entirely obvious, especially if you are not familiar with nDo from before.

    As Zipfinator suggested, a good way is to generate a normal from preset, and then tweak the individual detail passes.

    To apply a preset, first generate your base normal, and then in go to Presets>Photo to Normal>Standard Softer to generate a richer, multi-layered normal. In your case I imagine you would like to tone down the low-fequency details (the large and soft volumes) to achieve the wooden feel you're after.

    Let me know how it works out for you!
  • achmedthesnake
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    achmedthesnake polycounter lvl 17
    question for the nDo2 peeps regarding basic usage -

    -The 'depth' slider/amount, just wondering is that based on an arbitrary amount (we just slide it to what looks good?) or based on actual measurements like 5 = 5mm extrusion/inversion...

    -Is there any tips on performance - making it work quicker?

    So far I've had no problems, either with installation or usage - good work guys!
  • copyright
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    copyright polycounter lvl 7
    Thank you for the help ! The normal map is looking MUCH better now woot woot!

    ga.jpg
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    Hmm... Just noticed something since I started using the new version. It overlays white or something all over the normal after using a preset making it unusable. It's still fine when I mix layers together myself though. It did it with both the Standard and Standard Softer presets so I'm guessing it's something to do with presets in general.
  • teddybergsman
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    Zipfinator,
    All layers are automatically zipped when creating photo normals for increased performance -- is this perhaps what you are referring to? These normals automatically unzip once you start to edit their advanced normal properties, or if you manually unzip them (by untoggling the "Zip" button). Sorry though if I misunderstood your question!

    copyright,
    Awesome, much better indeed! I'm glad you got the hang of it :)

    achmedthesnake,
    Depth is a special case, it's percantage based but follows a non-linear curve. So, for instance, you won't see much difference until you reach the lower 200:s. You'll find which measurements all other values are based on in the tutorial, chapter 2.3.6. My performance tip would be to frequently zip your layers, as this will significantly boost Photoshop responsiveness for you!
  • xXm0RpH3usXx
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    xXm0RpH3usXx polycounter lvl 13
    the newest beta wants me to install dotnet, even though i have it and then crashes...

    started everything as admin and not, both does the same.
  • RictusGrin
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    Teddy, a small update.

    I grabbed the newest Nvidia beta drivers, now the cube primitive renders fine however Im still getting the same warnings that Photoshop is not connected, and it requires Visual Basic (even though I have it).

    Clicking on the New Normal crashes ndo but creates the normal.

    Im curious if 3dvision drivers (which I have) has something to do with this?
  • [HP]
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    [HP] polycounter lvl 13
    This is pure win, thanks Teddy.
  • copyright
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    copyright polycounter lvl 7
    Here is my new render with the new normal map:


    gate2.jpg
  • teddybergsman
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    copyright,
    Your sharing brightens up my day, now keep creatin'!

    Helder,
    I'm happy you've found nDo2 useful :) Can't wait to see the stuff you'll make!

    xXm0RpH3usXx,
    I'm very sorry to hear this. If you install the new beta release below, does your problem persist? Thank you for the report.

    RictusGrin,
    Great progress report, I'm glad things are moving in the right direction. See bottom of this post for a potential solution to your crash!

    ---

    We have a few big systems on their way (installer included), however these must first be tested extensively before we dare to release. In the meantime we thought we'd share this small pre-release!

    Download latest nDo2 beta

    New features based on your excellent requests
    • Previewer on/off toggling
    • Previewer force-refresh button
    • Layer renaming via the nDo2 UI (simply right-click the layer name to edit)
    • Entering and exiting sculpt mode is now much faster
    • Fixed crash when duplicating sculpt layer
    • "Missing Visual Studio 2010 runtime" error on start-up hopefully solved
    ndo2beta.jpg

    Potential crash work-around
    For you who are experiencing start-up crashes -- try installing nDo2 straight on your desktop. We've found that PS not connecting and the previewer not showing can be solved this way (the desktop requires no admin rights). We're working hard on solving this before next release (you shouldn't have to extract to the desktop). For now it might just prove a helpful work-around.

    - Teddy & the Quixel team
  • felipefrango
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    felipefrango polycounter lvl 9
    Man, I haven't even tried the beta but the support and feedback you're giving is amazing, I would buy the damn thing on that alone! Definitely picking this up when it launches. :D
  • teddybergsman
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    felipefrango,
    That's awesome to hear, your support is much appreciated :) We're happy to help!
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