Hey Sneaky! Glad ya dig.The holes for the exhaust are definitely a bit big. A buddy of mine was hoping to do some smoke effects coming out of it down the road, so my reasoning was to make em a bit bigger so the shapes would still be a bit more noticeable. I have no idea if that's totally justifiable or not. Haha. Thanks so much for the input!
As far as the personal problems go, it's rough isn't it? In the past couple months, my uncle was in the hospital plus some other big stuff within the fam. Doing at least one asset a day despite everything helps though. The joys of being in artist while life tries to interfere, eh?
As a quick note, I hope I'm not coming across as if I'm dismissing some crits. I have about 7 more weeks till graduation, so I'm working to get this done as fast as possibly while still making it look good. I'm keeping a log of crits to make changes if I have time. That said, I would still love as much feedback and attention as I can get for this sucker!
Finally starting to take a crack at the hull. Here's a ROUGH first pass. I'd love some feedback on this before I move forward. I know there's no bevels right now and it's not that clean. Hoping to just get some direction as far as shape and proportion goes. Cheers!
Well, you're trying to model it one piece, which I wouldnt if I was you. It's going to cause you those nightmares that can be easily avoided if you consider modeling it like a real junkboat: made of a lot of different pieces, stitched/sewed together.
Also make a good use of floaters on this if this is going to be baked later.
Yeah those parts seems a bit tricky.I'd make a low-poly blockout for guidiance and then model the hi-poly metal plates/pieces to place them around the blockout.Placement might be a asspain(or utterly enjoyable?).
Don't hesiate to use more geometry on the hi-poly meshes.The reason of your problems is you don't have enough geometry to refine those curvy shapes.More geo is the motto.
Thanks for the tips guys! I added more geo around the hole, removed some excess geo elsewhere, and relaxed it all. I've been able to get a nice result. Now it's just a matter if splitting the plates into parts like ParoXum said.
I took the great advice everyone's been giving me and applied it to a redone hull. Much cleaner geo this time and separate pieces. Still have some tweaks to do and parts to add, but it's getting there.
The new hull is looking really solid so far, looks like you nailed the shape of the hull down. Looking forward to seeing more of the boat being put together.
Hey Kenny, yeah, the hull definitely needs some more work.I dropped it for a while and worked on the crane (will post pics soon). In the meantime, here's the pre-zbrushed conning tower.
This is looking awesome. I like the colorfulness of the concept art and the wackyness of the piece.
If you have the scatters of plates on the tower, I would keep that going on the bottom. I know you've been working hard on the hull, but when I look at the hull then this tower, the details don't match. Then again, the concept doesn't have that much on the bottom. The hull does pop out though, in its layers, maybe that's why its not working for me. It just seems too smooth instead of jiggery and haphazard.
Aside from that, it's coming along very nicely. Get some textures going, maybe that'll help push what isn't there... I dunno.
Thanks mate! You're completely right about the hull. I plan to revisit it. I just keep procrastinating and working on other areas, as the hull is a pain in my ass. I'll make sure to keep it consistent. The panels are also all separate objects, so they're optimized for zbrush which will push it farther. If everything goes according to plan, the hull will get the same treatment.
I know you say that tower is pre-zbrush, but I still think all those panels set at perfect 90 degree angles like that is going to work against you. Also, the panelling is to samey. I get the vibe that its supposed to look like a ton of geri-rigged fixes, and not segmented hull construction.
Approach the panels from several different approaches. different edge treatment, different bevels, rounded corners, maybe some odd shapes. The panels you have now don't catch any light along their edges, making it look papery.
Still pretty cool. looking forward to seeing this come together!
Hey, BelgianBoolean! I just subscribed to your thread and would like to say that the progress and the model itself are looking excellent! Great concept you have picked there.
Now my input, I think you should do both. This ship looks like an oldy-but-goody, you know what I mean. It is doing its job for a long time, and has probably been fixed during this time over and over again. So, yes, more plates! (I hope I understood the question the right way.)
Another thing (according to the concept) is that I think the tower should be a little bigger. In the drawing it looks like the hull actually is too small for all the stuff that was constructed on it.
Yeah, its looking good. I suppose hap-hazard is the name of the game. Theres an odd seam above the round panel on the bottom. I dont think two metal chunks would just so happen to come together like that. The tower panels still seem a bit 90 degree angle-ish- but its such a small detail I`m not sure if it really matters.
Thinking in terms of layering is probably going to be your best friend. If something looks off, slap a panel over it. :P
also- experiment with bevel styles- (rounded, fat, thin, double bevels, etc) <this is what will make it look as if this thing has been patched up with all kinds of different materials, over a long period of time. The idea is, light catches those bevels in various ways, defining shapes.
^ That's good advice.
I think the metal panels are looking too similar. Like you extruded sets of polygons all at the same distance and bevel. I would also have most of the metal panels as separate meshes (as they would be separate metal panels in real life).
Yeah, he's right. I'm gonna redo the paneling on the hull; and as for the tower, I'm gonna model a few panels at odd angles with new bevels to just slap on there. Also, each panel is a separate mesh.
Thanks a ton guys! I'll probably make the overlapping plates on the hull a bit more irregular and do the same for the tower. I've got a to do list of new assets and fixes to make.
This is looking really good my only crit would be the two doors
yours seem to be the same door which for your boat is kinda confusing
In the concept it looks like the door on the right is 2/3 to half the height of the door on the right which to me says its a access door to an engine room or vital system that you don't always go too where the door on the left is to the bridge or something
just something I thought about when I saw yours great work though keep it up
That site is an orgy of interest. It gets me hot and bothered. The concept art as well, which like everyone else is starting to say, it needs that messy, slapped together feeling.
You've got the shapes, like as if it were fresh off the line. Now it's time to age it, like skewing things, distorting shapes slightly. Maybe throw a weak Noise on some things? I got a scene going that's similar, its very patchworky and playing around with the Noise modifer, just a slight, goes a long way to give it the subtle variance of nature.
Or maybe the sloppy will come from zBrush?
It's look sloppier (a good thing), keep it up, maybe knock back a shot and work on it with a more "sloppish" mindset.
@HughieDM I hear ya on the door. It's funny, cause I assumed that that lower door would lead to engineering as well while the upper would go to the bridge. If I have time, I'll take another look at proportions. That door frame is a bit hard to edit. I'm glad you like the progress though!
@Butthair (teeheee) You're right about the lines still being clean. I modeled that way for simplicity's sake. That noise and wear/tear will come from zbrush. Hoping to get to that point this week. My graduation is mid september, so the goal is to possibly have it all modeled and textures by then.
Oh man, this is starting to come together nicely ! Going to look awesome when its finished!
-I agree with the noise modifier It works just fine for alot of things and you probably wont need to take it to ZBR. I'd only use ZBR for the biggest details you will see the most.
The texturing is where you will get a lot of the dirty details from as well. Texturing this is going to be hell though ! Best of luck and keep pluggin away at it man !
Hey guys, I had quick question. As I finish up the high poly, I'm trying to plan out the best/fastest way to make low polys out of all this; since I'm working on a tight deadline.. I've heard some folks swear by meshlab or Max's pro optimize as a fast way to get static props done. Is this legit?
Ergh. I mean, re-topolgy is kind of an art of its own. I`m not aware of any super fast way of doing it. That would be like asking for a super fast way to make the highpoly. If this is intended as game asset (low-poly, normal bakes) the lowpoly mesh is probably the most important part as that is the actual model used in game. You wouldn`t want to use a fast method for that.
Fortunately, retopologizing isnt that hard (uv`s are far more time consuming). The idea with retopology, is you want to run your loops with UV seams, and smoothing groups in mind. What makes it easy, is the volumes are already there. All you have to worry about is the topology.
The only re-topology tools I`ve used were what used to be poly-boost, and is now the Graphite modeling tools in max (polydraw>extend) <specifically and its always worked beautifully. Strange enough I enjoy re-topology the most out of all the 3d tasks :P
I`ve heard theres WAY better out there, so I dont claim to be an expert on the topic :P
@ konstruct: I wish I could enjoy retopoing as much as you do, but like BelgianBoolean here, it drives me over the edge. I do, however, enjoy doing UV pages, it's like a puzzle to me... ^^.
Anyways, Max's ProOptimizer is like zBrush's decimation master, but with a more realtime update. As you lower the value (percentage or vertex amount), it will reduce real time. It can be tedious, you will need to check the silhouette all around, and this piece is fairly intricate.
There's a plug-in for Max called Wrap-It. It is extremely awesome. It also cost 35 pounds. Check it out, zBrush should get this and replace their extremely outdated retopo tool. http://matt-clark.co.uk/wrapit/spe.php?o=177
The graphite modelling tools I hear work nicely. I've used them a bit and it's like doing a retopo in zBrush, but without the annoying orange wireframe noising things up. Otherwise it's only a little bit better than zBrush's.
Lastly, you could try a Decimation in zBrush, followed by a Remesh all, then project to get a quaded silhouette of a sloppy low poly, then clean it up in Max or there is zBrush, tweaking the verts to match the high poly.
I agree with konstruct, it is it's own art and I look for ways to avoid it (hehe). I think zBrush 4 R2 is going to have a better retopo tool, or else it'll be sometime down the line. I'm not sure, but I did hear that they've been looking for ways to improve their retopo tools. Just gotta stick it out until then, but it pays off. I mean, sleep deprivation is nothing serious.
I ended up playing around a bit with different methods. Pro optimize was a bit random in it's results. Right now, I'm working with 3d Coat's auto retopology which is looking really promising. Thanks for all the advice!
In the meantime, here's an update. I did the antenna and did more work on the crane. At this point, I'm just hopping all over the place and working on bits and pieces I'm missing. I've got 4 more weeks till I graduate, so I'm really trying to up the ante a bit.
Konstruct: Yeah, the wall needs a lot more work. Btw, thanks so much for staying active on the thread. You've been helping a ton mate. Also, wrapit is the shit.
makecg: Cheers man! Still hoping to do the texturing by graduation...but we'll see.
It's coming, it's coming. Looking fantastic, get it in zBrush already! I wanna see all that rust, and dinged metal, and scratches, and sloppy weldings, and stain run, and loose bolts, and odd sized rivets, and bird shit. There better be bird shit. :poly127:
Replies
I also hate when personal problems get in the way of making art, had my fair share of that recently, glad to see your this is back on track
As far as the personal problems go, it's rough isn't it? In the past couple months, my uncle was in the hospital plus some other big stuff within the fam. Doing at least one asset a day despite everything helps though. The joys of being in artist while life tries to interfere, eh?
Also make a good use of floaters on this if this is going to be baked later.
Don't hesiate to use more geometry on the hi-poly meshes.The reason of your problems is you don't have enough geometry to refine those curvy shapes.More geo is the motto.
@Der Hollander I've really been digging your Dirk model mate. Can't wait to see it finished, as I have more than a few fond memories of that game.
Playing more with the rear hull.
If you have the scatters of plates on the tower, I would keep that going on the bottom. I know you've been working hard on the hull, but when I look at the hull then this tower, the details don't match. Then again, the concept doesn't have that much on the bottom. The hull does pop out though, in its layers, maybe that's why its not working for me. It just seems too smooth instead of jiggery and haphazard.
Aside from that, it's coming along very nicely. Get some textures going, maybe that'll help push what isn't there... I dunno.
I'll be following!
Here's some roughed out parts for the crane, and this site is becoming my main reference source.http://industrialdecay.blogspot.com/
Approach the panels from several different approaches. different edge treatment, different bevels, rounded corners, maybe some odd shapes. The panels you have now don't catch any light along their edges, making it look papery.
Still pretty cool. looking forward to seeing this come together!
Now my input, I think you should do both. This ship looks like an oldy-but-goody, you know what I mean. It is doing its job for a long time, and has probably been fixed during this time over and over again. So, yes, more plates! (I hope I understood the question the right way.)
Another thing (according to the concept) is that I think the tower should be a little bigger. In the drawing it looks like the hull actually is too small for all the stuff that was constructed on it.
Thinking in terms of layering is probably going to be your best friend. If something looks off, slap a panel over it. :P
also- experiment with bevel styles- (rounded, fat, thin, double bevels, etc) <this is what will make it look as if this thing has been patched up with all kinds of different materials, over a long period of time. The idea is, light catches those bevels in various ways, defining shapes.
I think the metal panels are looking too similar. Like you extruded sets of polygons all at the same distance and bevel. I would also have most of the metal panels as separate meshes (as they would be separate metal panels in real life).
yours seem to be the same door which for your boat is kinda confusing
In the concept it looks like the door on the right is 2/3 to half the height of the door on the right which to me says its a access door to an engine room or vital system that you don't always go too where the door on the left is to the bridge or something
just something I thought about when I saw yours great work though keep it up
You've got the shapes, like as if it were fresh off the line. Now it's time to age it, like skewing things, distorting shapes slightly. Maybe throw a weak Noise on some things? I got a scene going that's similar, its very patchworky and playing around with the Noise modifer, just a slight, goes a long way to give it the subtle variance of nature.
Or maybe the sloppy will come from zBrush?
It's look sloppier (a good thing), keep it up, maybe knock back a shot and work on it with a more "sloppish" mindset.
@HughieDM I hear ya on the door. It's funny, cause I assumed that that lower door would lead to engineering as well while the upper would go to the bridge. If I have time, I'll take another look at proportions. That door frame is a bit hard to edit. I'm glad you like the progress though!
@Butthair (teeheee) You're right about the lines still being clean. I modeled that way for simplicity's sake. That noise and wear/tear will come from zbrush. Hoping to get to that point this week. My graduation is mid september, so the goal is to possibly have it all modeled and textures by then.
-I agree with the noise modifier It works just fine for alot of things and you probably wont need to take it to ZBR. I'd only use ZBR for the biggest details you will see the most.
The texturing is where you will get a lot of the dirty details from as well. Texturing this is going to be hell though ! Best of luck and keep pluggin away at it man !
Hey guys, I had quick question. As I finish up the high poly, I'm trying to plan out the best/fastest way to make low polys out of all this; since I'm working on a tight deadline.. I've heard some folks swear by meshlab or Max's pro optimize as a fast way to get static props done. Is this legit?
Fortunately, retopologizing isnt that hard (uv`s are far more time consuming). The idea with retopology, is you want to run your loops with UV seams, and smoothing groups in mind. What makes it easy, is the volumes are already there. All you have to worry about is the topology.
The only re-topology tools I`ve used were what used to be poly-boost, and is now the Graphite modeling tools in max (polydraw>extend) <specifically and its always worked beautifully. Strange enough I enjoy re-topology the most out of all the 3d tasks :P
I`ve heard theres WAY better out there, so I dont claim to be an expert on the topic :P
Anyways, Max's ProOptimizer is like zBrush's decimation master, but with a more realtime update. As you lower the value (percentage or vertex amount), it will reduce real time. It can be tedious, you will need to check the silhouette all around, and this piece is fairly intricate.
There's a plug-in for Max called Wrap-It. It is extremely awesome. It also cost 35 pounds. Check it out, zBrush should get this and replace their extremely outdated retopo tool.
http://matt-clark.co.uk/wrapit/spe.php?o=177
The graphite modelling tools I hear work nicely. I've used them a bit and it's like doing a retopo in zBrush, but without the annoying orange wireframe noising things up. Otherwise it's only a little bit better than zBrush's.
Lastly, you could try a Decimation in zBrush, followed by a Remesh all, then project to get a quaded silhouette of a sloppy low poly, then clean it up in Max or there is zBrush, tweaking the verts to match the high poly.
I agree with konstruct, it is it's own art and I look for ways to avoid it (hehe). I think zBrush 4 R2 is going to have a better retopo tool, or else it'll be sometime down the line. I'm not sure, but I did hear that they've been looking for ways to improve their retopo tools. Just gotta stick it out until then, but it pays off. I mean, sleep deprivation is nothing serious.
In the meantime, here's an update. I did the antenna and did more work on the crane. At this point, I'm just hopping all over the place and working on bits and pieces I'm missing. I've got 4 more weeks till I graduate, so I'm really trying to up the ante a bit.
Butthair(hur): thanks for the head up on wrapit! those tools look SWEET
makecg: Cheers man! Still hoping to do the texturing by graduation...but we'll see.
IxenonI : That means a lot coming from you mate! Your environment work is brilliant.