I dunno, I've been here since 1998 and the general forums have always had a pretty good amount of off-topic bullshit
Anyway, I had submitted another post in the thread earlier but it got gobbled up when the server went crizazy. I'll just let it go and focus on sketching out my Penis Tank commander in hopes there's a PC Civil War contest!
You watch how he seems to roll over on everything for the Republicans these days, you would think he were a Republican stoog.
I'm waiting for the day where he actually stands up and acts progressive and (gasp!) maybe even a little socialist, like his ardent rightwing critics constantly accuse him of being. Most everything going on these days in government is something center right or outright rightwing; maintenance of the status quo for the last 30 years.
I'm waiting for the day where he actually stands up and acts progressive and (gasp!) maybe even a little socialist, like his ardent rightwing critics constantly accuse him of being. Most everything going on these days in government is something center right or outright rightwing; maintenance of the status quo for the last 30 years.
Exactly. And people called Bush a conservative. The only thing he ever conserved was the status quo. Back then I thought the Democrats blaming Bush for being "too conservative" was ridiculous, cause he wasn't one at all. But now the Republicans are doing the same thing to Obama, calling him a socialist, where really he just continues on the same policy as the previous administration, which is exactly what the previous administration did. All the way back for decades.
All this Republican vs Democrats thing is as ridiculous, if not more so, as Polycount vs GA.
in case people didn't realize this, but the data that the military private downloaded off the servers in the US is NOT the same server that stores top secret information for the Defense Department or the Pentagon. Also Julian Assange has an arrangement with the New York Times, The Guardian(in Londen), a few other major news papers that before they release any information to the public that they check with the White House to see if there's anything that should be retracted. In this batch of leaks the White House was perfectly ok. So this whole controversy is BULLSHIT.
"The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the
very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to
me to decide whether we should have a government without
newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not
hesitate a moment to prefer the latter." --Thomas Jefferson to
Edward Carrington, 1787.
Once again Jefferson, Thank you!
Mhm..
And now they will flush Assange down the toilet and use the whole controversy as an argument against net neutrality/free speech. Again, just my paranoid mind at work.
All this Republican vs Democrats thing is as ridiculous
You effin' said it.
They change meanings constantly. Not to long ago how people perceive "republicans" were actually the "democrats". They just switch to the winning side.
Its just a matter of what scum is chosen for "X" corporation. Its no different than it was during the days of the railroad tycoons its just corporations are better at hiding their puppet strings now.
As for the war shit. Wars are evil. -period-
Both sides do atrocious shit, because you don't win a war with hugs, kisses, teddy bears and penis ribbons.
I am not advocating the use of human land mine detectors, but this isn't the first time soldiers have used this tactic, nor are we the first country to do this. Neither is this the first time innocent people have been killed in a war. Every war, at all, ever, in the history of man has had innocents die. Yes its terrible; yes I feel bad for those affected; war is evil.
Wikileaks adds a level of transparency that needs to exist. The government will probably let the dude go after a big over dramatized court case where inevitably it'll be decided that its a matter of free speech and that it cannot and will not be taken down.
However, it will then probably just be used to feed the public information to help governments corral them. Disinformation.
EDIT:
you don't win a war with hugs, kisses, teddy bears and penis ribbons.
Unless its a polycount civil war in which case, making a primordial dwarf with testicals for an adam's apple that have tumors who is hugging a giant teddy bear penis pillow with a ribbon on it will probably win you the war.
And now they will flush Assange down the toilet and use the whole controversy as an argument against net neutrality/free speech. Again, just my paranoid mind at work.
Never let a crisis go to waste.
This is what I fear the most. Not that government, and as George Carlin called them 'The owners of this country'- all these vested interests; that they are going to go after this and make the case for more censorship and control. That I expect, I don't fear that. I fear that people in this country just don't care enough to fight back, and that the powerful are going to take more control and most people will just... let them.
Apathy is a powerful enemy.
The net seems like the last bastion of real freedom and power we 'the people' have.
[edit]
Just to add why wikileaks is important, you just can't make these things up:
There's a difference between being a whistle-blower and publishing sensitive documents. There are things that I certainly think should be published, like the apache video. The people involved need to be held accountable, and there is no reason that anyone should be allowed to cover that up.
Some discretion is necessary, however. Just as we utilize secrecy and privacy in our daily lives to avoid conflict and deal with situations, the government has to be able to do the same. For example, the documents from Middle Eastern nations urging the U.S. to attack Iran? Nothing about those cables were illegal, and releasing them to the world poses a significant risk to the stability of the entire region. We're lucky that Iran hasn't gotten pissed yet and started shooting. There is absolutely no reason to release that document or any other jeopardizing the peace or safety of anyone.
Lastly, yeah, we spy on people. That's how we find out about things like terrorist plots. You never know where a threat might come from, so you spy on everyone, even if they're a UN diplomat. Get over it.
Lastly, yeah, we spy on people. That's how we find out about things like terrorist plots. You never know where a threat might come from, so you spy on everyone, even if they're a UN diplomat. Get over it.
I think George Orwell just turned over about a million times in his grave... then his head exploded. Christ.
edit - nvm... reread your post and I hope you didn't mean what I initially thought you did.
Actually this is kind of a funny situation. What I posted was something I believe in and I shouldn't have (I wanna say ridicule but it wasen't that bad) posted that link under a line from half baked...
It's funny because Jacque always says how in United States no one believes in him and most just scorn him without knowing his work. In other countries he is praised for what he does and all the help he provides.
He just wants people to realize how life could be and how we should care more about our earths resources rathar than being pedant and live in a world where freedom is never truely realized.
I could go on and on but I can't tell you much more than what the website offers...
Here is his wikipedia page and a inerview he did back in 74.
I don't want to take over this thread but all this wouldn't happen if we lived life like this :poly124:
Nothing dates faster than peoples fantasies about the future.
- Robert Hughes
Here's a segment from the BBC documentary: Shock of the New's Segment about Brasilia.
The utopian dream of what the Brazilian Capital was supposed to be, and the practicality of it. http://wn.com/Brasilia_Segment_from_The_Shock_of_the_New
Nothing dates faster than peoples fantasies about the future.
- Robert Hughes
Here's a segment from the BBC documentary: Shock of the New's Segment about Brasilia.
The utopian dream of what the Brazilian Capital was supposed to be, and the practicality of it. http://wn.com/Brasilia_Segment_from_The_Shock_of_the_New
Sorry I haven't watched those videos, they are buffering as I type this. The quote you wrote doesn't really apply to this type of work, only because what he is saying is not fantasy, most of it could have been achieved 20-30 years ago.
Also, the Venus Project is not "utopia". (He says this in video 2 of his interview). It will change, it can change, it has to change, it's never perfect and nothing will ever will be in this regard.
Edit: I just watched that video and am about to read that article. This is another quote from that video :poly121:.
"This is what you get when you design for polital aspirations and not human needs."
I just skimmed through the article and it seems to me that the problem was: poor design, bad use of materials and just really terrible engineering. When people started pouring in to live in this community, they didn't advance, they just stayed the same, people got over crowded and it became a slum for the rich.
Who makes the rules? A culture without some form of gouverning / managing organisation would be utter chaos. If there isn't a political system, who then decides what happens to people who do bad things?
It might seem like a nice idea, and don't get me wrong, the eco side of things pleases me no end, but it just wouldn't work.
Anyway, i feel this is a discussion for another topic. Which i'd probably have a lot to say about xD
Man I want to answer these questions myself but I think the FAQ can do most of this .
I'm very familiar with the so-called 'resource based economy'.
The problem with it, is that it does not account for human greed. It's essentially what communism is at it's core. And it's failed.
Doctors should get MORE resources because of the skills and knowledge they have over a waiter. If there were no monetary motivations, there would be far less doctors.
Keep in mind 'Money', was initially supposed to just be a legal tender in exchange for gold... a note in exchange for a resource.
BTW, China is the #1 economic superpower because of their manpower, not because of their natural resources.
I know what you're saying and I believe most of it JacqueChoi, but It's not about being a economic superpower, it's more about helping others while using the resources you have and advancing as TEAM HUMAN.
Will there be human greed if everything you need is there for you to use, for free? I think if someone wanted to be a doctor, a social helper, they could learn everything they needed from the vast information that is in our world today.
This would only be temp. until machines take over. Doctors usually look at a patient, observe their condition and treat it with their knowledge of past experiences involving that same condition, or use a resource (book, another doctor, etc.), I'm 100% sure a machine could do the same, and also do it much better than a human.
Take it a step further you could create a virtual world, like the MATRIX where one could input the information of ones brain and recreate them in new world.
We could do this for everyone who died until we could create another humanoid/machine type being (cyborg?) where we could input the information from the MATRIX (if they wanted to) and have them live in the "real" world. If we needed to learn more, we could simply download anything in seconds..
We could do this for everyone who died until we could create another humanoid/machine type being (cyborg?) where we could input the information from the MATRIX (if they wanted to) and have them live in the "real" world. If we needed to learn more, we could simply download anything in seconds..
and if someone thought that for the greater good people who thought certain thoughts needed to be purged from the system then they would be?
What if some traits where found to be a weakness and therefor a danger to the group?
What if in order to build a stronger future we needed to cull the more shallow weaker parts of the gene pool? Are those people sterilized and not allowed to procreate? Do they never get to experience being parents? Or do they raise someones genetically superior baby? Because they're deemed "weaker" are they looked down on and viewed as a subclass even if every law makes them equal?
What if even if you mange to clean everyone up and put them modern futuristic housing, they still managed to hold grudges, be influenced by mob mentality and still had dark sides.
What if later on some of those things where found to be the reverse? What if things didn't always go as planned?
What if people had to improvise after centuries of being bread not to? Do we keep a few free thinkers locked away in case we need some out of the box ideas?
What if people still grow old and die and this makes other people miserable? Do we enact a cerimony where everyone goes out on a good note at the age of 30, we tell them that everyone goes back into the great machine for a while to let someone else come out, if only there was enough room in utopia for everyone.
At the risk of invoking Godwin's law... there was a group that sought to do just that. It didn't go so well. It's been the subject and speculation of many books and think tanks also and often the chances of utopia being tainted runs high unless you remove humans from it.
There will always be conflict and there will always be mistakes, its how choose to deal with those two things that defines our future. We don't need to run away to specialized colonies where its members only. We just need to talk more, fight less and have some fuckin empathy for other people.
To quote my favorite punching bag:
I say let me never be complete
I say may I never be content
I say deliver me from Swedish furniture
I say deliver me from clever arts
I say deliver me from clear skin and perfect teeth
I say you have to give up
I say evolve and let the chips fall where they may
You have to realize that someday you will die
Until you know that you are useless
this is your life and its ending one min at a time.
There will always be people like Tyler Durden. I would be so bold as to say there is a little Durden in all of us and that to truly live in utopia we have to give that up. In doing so do we deny something that makes us who we are? If we see it as a useless weakness and we arrogantly purge it from ourselves and we find later that it was valuable and we do indeed need those pieces but they can't be retrieved... what then?
Best to get your head out of the clouds now and learn to deal with the imperfect people now because honestly the only way we are going to get to true utopia is to figure out how to work around our imperfections. We won't need grand plans or master architect deities, social engineering or even badly designed space yachts floating in front of crappy primative shaped mansions. BTW how much did they pay for those images because I could do a hell of a lot better and probably charge less... That would go a long way in creating my utopia
But it's not running away at all.. and it's not a member only community. If someone was physiologically unfit, we could just throw him in the MATRIX? ahahah not like they're gonna die or anything, well they will, but probably just restart or something who knows?
As I said before, it's not a group, a member only colony, or anything that will separate people and create "tribes". It's TEAM HUMAN! If there is someone in the world that was wired differently (like a killer or something of that nature), I'm sure we could find a way to heal him.
There are rules, but they aren't anything that should be, or would be in forced because people would realize themselves.
I think the bigger question is: can we grow beyond thinking that "someone" has to make decisions for us?
There are going to be universities that study human behavior and will try to fix those problems as well, we cannot look the other way when it comes to that.
I guess I come at this very differently. I'll pause for a second and tell a story about a 3 people I know it will explain my position on this.
I know 3 deaf people, very talented artists.
1 is legally deaf but she can hear with super hearing aids but then its not so great.
2 and 3 have been deaf from birth and both have had chances to have major surgery done to "heal" or attempt to "restore" their hearing, they both declined and are now too old. Those procedures did work on 1 and it is why she is able to partial hear.
I've asked 2 & 3 if you could hear just like everyone else would you? No side effects no half hearing just wake up and bam you hear. They both say the same thing even though they are total opposites.
No.
So naturally I ask why, they both say they are normal people who don't need to be made whole. They communicate fine, have relationships, they drive cars and see movies there is nothing to fix because there is nothing broken they are who they are and they accept it.
Ahh but if they could just hear for a day then make the choice? Would they really say no?
1 says she didn't have a choice the window to do the procedures was when she was young and her parents opted to do it. They always viewed being deaf as a negative thing and worked tirelessly to help her hear and live a normal life, going to regular public school, not teaching her sign language, keeping her away from deaf devices because they thought they would hinder her normal development. Doctors said the tests showed that she could hear well enough with super hearing aids. She hears fine, there must be something else, she must be slower?
Truth was she really couldn't hear that well but she had learned to compensate in other ways that she was able to "cheat" the tests. She read body language she felt vibrations, in her head, in her chest she read expressions and lips pretty well. But was too young to articulate what she was hearing, what was normal hearing to her? If they said that was normal, ok thats what everyone else normally heard. It must be something else.
Because they tried to force a normal life on her they made things harder. When she was 12 they "gave up" it was a big deal as if she was giving up on being normal. They enrolled her in a deaf school, she got the tools that normal deaf people have access too, she caught up and excelled, graduated from college and is an amazing artist. Most of the time doesn't wear the aids. Even though there have been good improvements and she's had more procedures done since then. She says its worse knowing that what she hears is not great. She looks back and wonders what if they had just not gone through it all.
But she never really hears perfectly?
My point is to get to utopia you have to break some eggs and make some really hard choices. In utopia will people feel a pressure to be normal and fit in will that pressure lead to bad choices that actually cause misery instead of a normal life?
You say if someone is a murder then we find a way to fix them, or we plug them into the matrix?
What if they never murder anyone and you find that they have a trait that could possibly lead to them murdering someone in the future?
What if they don't want to go do you force it on them in order to keep the peace of the greater good? Who enforces those rules?
How do you keep everyone in line?
How do you deal with decent?
Anytime you define a code or a set of rules there has to be some way to enforce them. I point to Rome and specifically Nero where most of societies problems where taken care of. The life of leisure lead to debauchery and all kinds of seriously freaky abuses of power. What if people get bored and start acting out...
I'm very familiar with the so-called 'resource based economy'.
The problem with it, is that it does not account for human greed. It's essentially what communism is at it's core. And it's failed.
Doctors should get MORE resources because of the skills and knowledge they have over a waiter. If there were no monetary motivations, there would be far less doctors.
That is probably one of the most common misconceptions about communism / socialism.
To each according to his contribution is considered by some Marxists and other socialists as a characteristic of society directly following the transition to socialism, but preceding the final step to communism. This essentially means that people are rewarded based on the amount they contribute to the social product.
The term means simply that each worker in a socialist society receives wages and benefits according to the quantity and value of the labor that he or she contributed. This translates into workers of high productivity receiving more wages and benefits than workers of average productivity, and substantially more than workers of low productivity. An extension of this principle could also be made so that the more difficult one's job is - whether this difficulty is derived from greater training requirements, job intensity, safety hazards, etc. - the more one is rewarded for the labor contributed. The purpose of the principle, as Trotsky would later state, is to promote productivity. This is done by creating incentives to work harder, longer, and more productively. The principle is ultimately a stowaway from capitalism that, according to Marx, will vanish as work becomes more automated and enjoyable, and goods become available in abundance.
And about people being to greedy, I think you have to make the distinction between selfishness and self-interest.
I find it Ironic that the same pro-capitalist ideologues who preach that people are too greedy for socialism who then turn around to demand workers tighten their belts for the common good whenever they want to lower our wages, lay us off, or cut our social programs.
That is probably one of the most common misconceptions about communism / socialism.
To each according to his contribution is considered by some Marxists and other socialists as a characteristic of society directly following the transition to socialism, but preceding the final step to communism. This essentially means that people are rewarded based on the amount they contribute to the social product.
The term means simply that each worker in a socialist society receives wages and benefits according to the quantity and value of the labor that he or she contributed. This translates into workers of high productivity receiving more wages and benefits than workers of average productivity, and substantially more than workers of low productivity. An extension of this principle could also be made so that the more difficult one's job is - whether this difficulty is derived from greater training requirements, job intensity, safety hazards, etc. - the more one is rewarded for the labor contributed. The purpose of the principle, as Trotsky would later state, is to promote productivity. This is done by creating incentives to work harder, longer, and more productively. The principle is ultimately a stowaway from capitalism that, according to Marx, will vanish as work becomes more automated and enjoyable, and goods become available in abundance.
And about people being to greedy, I think you have to make the distinction between selfishness and self-interest.
I find it Ironic that the same pro-capitalist ideologues who preach that people are too greedy for socialism who then turn around to demand workers tighten their belts for the common good whenever they want to lower our wages, lay us off, or cut our social programs.
To each according to his contribution indeed, but it rarely - if ever, stops at that, now does it?
Seems like like socialism is the next big thing in America and the rest of the world - something that hot-headed youngsters will bring up at the slighest sign of cracks in the current form of goverment. It's conceived as the awnsers to all of their prayers, yet they do not fully understand it and what it will bring about. I belive Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn called them the "Little Devils", gullible borderline radicals who are instrumental is bringing such a form of goverment into power.
Needless to say i've experienced socialism most of my life, i live in Sweden - probably one of the most socialist states there were. While it is not bad, it is not good either. Socialism not only changes the economic model of the nation, as many people seem to belive, but culturally, morally and ethically aswell. The amount of apathy, lack of economic growth and domestication it brings about alone is enough to put a nation on it's knees, not to mention the subversive and corrosive social engineering being forced upon the people.
Once you've adopted socialism you'll continously walk a fine line between it, and cultural-marxism. This is when you'r society gets twisted into a clusterfuck of reality absent norms: Black is white, good is bad, family has no value, men are to be as women, women are to be as men, identity is nonexistent and so on. Naturally you don't get to hear about these things.
It's kinda like the matrix, you can't be told what it is, you will have to see/live it for yourself. :poly121:
As for real communism; Slavery under a small priveleged elite, packaged and sold to the ignorant as equality, selflessness or whatever mantra people use to defend it with.
Seems like like socialism is the next big thing in America and the rest of the world - something that hot-headed youngsters will bring up at the slighest sign of cracks in the current form of goverment. It's conceived as the awnsers to all of their prayers, yet they do not fully understand it and what it will bring about.
Naahh its mostly stinky old Faux News using it to point out what has failed in Europe and scare old people into voting against their own best interest.
It's that Obama, he's going to socialize everything just like we socialized the financial collapse.... whispers just like HE socialized the financial collapse.
BTW tax cuts for the rich, love it! Love you, merry Christmas! You all rock! 2012! We'll suck you dry! whispers We're really high! whispers I mean we're ridding high!
To each according to his contribution indeed, but it rarely - if ever, stops at that, now does it?
Seems like like socialism is the next big thing in America and the rest of the world - something that hot-headed youngsters will bring up at the slighest sign of cracks in the current form of goverment. It's conceived as the awnsers to all of their prayers, yet they do not fully understand it and what it will bring about. I belive Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn called them the "Little Devils", gullible borderline radicals who are instrumental is bringing such a form of goverment into power.
Needless to say i've experienced socialism most of my life, i live in Sweden - probably one of the most socialist states there were. While it is not bad, it is not good either. Socialism not only changes the economic model of the nation, as many people seem to belive, but culturally, morally and ethically aswell. The amount of apathy, lack of economic growth and domestication it brings about alone is enough to put a nation on it's knees, not to mention the subversive and corrosive social engineering being forced upon the people.
Once you've adopted socialism you'll continously walk a fine line between it, and cultural-marxism. This is when you'r society gets twisted into a clusterfuck of reality absent norms: Black is white, good is bad, family has no value, men are to be as women, women are to be as men, identity is nonexistent and so on. Naturally you don't get to hear about these things.
It's kinda like the matrix, you can't be told what it is, you will have to see/live it for yourself. :poly121:
As for real communism; Slavery under a small priveleged elite, packaged and sold to the ignorant as equality, selflessness or whatever mantra people use to defend it with.
All in all be careful what you wish for.
I was in no way advocating the kind of reformist socialism you have had in Sweden. And I seriously doubt real socialism is the next big thing in America
I think you should make a clear distinction between true socialism, the first phase of communism, and a government with socialist ideas operating in a capitalist system, like in Sweden. Because as far as I know, Sweden has always had a free market? Eventhough, your claims that it has slowed economic growth sounds like BS, because economic growth in Sweden has been on the same upward trend as Germany for the past decades (current crisis not included). Apart from that your
And real communism is the opposite of what you claim: It's a stateless and classless society.
What you describe as real communism, Slavery under a small privileged elite, packaged and sold to the ignorant as equality, to me sounds more like what we are experiencing today.
I was in no way advocating the kind of reformist socialism you have had in Sweden. And I seriously doubt real socialism is the next big thing in America
I think you should make a clear distinction between true socialism, the first phase of communism, and a government with socialist ideas operating in a capitalist system, like in Sweden. Because as far as I know, Sweden has always had a free market? Eventhough, your claims that it has slowed economic growth sounds like BS, because economic growth in Sweden has been on the same upward trend as Germany for the past decades (current crisis not included). Apart from that your
And real communism is the opposite of what you claim: It's a stateless and classless society.
What you describe as real communism, Slavery under a small privileged elite, packaged and sold to the ignorant as equality, to me sounds more like what we are experiencing today.
Naturally i never meant to describe us as being true socialist, yet given western standards we pretty much are. I admit to 'lack of economic growth' being a bad choice of words, perhaps individual standards would be better.
Pure communism is a stateless and classless society, i said real communism. By that i mean the type of communistic model that has been established thus far throughout history, where the state is god - a despotic dystopia under the guise of equality. Again, perhaps a bad choice of words.
As for socialism in America, perhaps unlikely but you never know . People are pissed, they want something new in order to punish the current rascals in power and the bandwagon seems to be heading for the far-left.
To each according to his contribution indeed, but it rarely - if ever, stops at that, now does it?
Seems like like socialism is the next big thing in America and the rest of the world - something that hot-headed youngsters will bring up at the slighest sign of cracks in the current form of goverment. It's conceived as the awnsers to all of their prayers, yet they do not fully understand it and what it will bring about. I belive Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn called them the "Little Devils", gullible borderline radicals who are instrumental is bringing such a form of goverment into power.
Needless to say i've experienced socialism most of my life, i live in Sweden - probably one of the most socialist states there were. While it is not bad, it is not good either. Socialism not only changes the economic model of the nation, as many people seem to belive, but culturally, morally and ethically aswell. The amount of apathy, lack of economic growth and domestication it brings about alone is enough to put a nation on it's knees, not to mention the subversive and corrosive social engineering being forced upon the people.
Once you've adopted socialism you'll continously walk a fine line between it, and cultural-marxism. This is when you'r society gets twisted into a clusterfuck of reality absent norms: Black is white, good is bad, family has no value, men are to be as women, women are to be as men, identity is nonexistent and so on. Naturally you don't get to hear about these things.
It's kinda like the matrix, you can't be told what it is, you will have to see/live it for yourself. :poly121:
As for real communism; Slavery under a small priveleged elite, packaged and sold to the ignorant as equality, selflessness or whatever mantra people use to defend it with.
All in all be careful what you wish for.
Wait...what? What other countries have you lived in? Honestly, the standard of EVERYTHING in sweden is higher than any other country ive been to basically :P Theres alot of problems in sweden, but quality of life is not one of them. Immigration and prize of alcohol, maybe ^^
Wait...what? What other countries have you lived in? Honestly, the standard of EVERYTHING in sweden is higher than any other country ive been to basically :P Theres alot of problems in sweden, but quality of life is not one of them. Immigration and prize of alcohol, maybe ^^
Yes, that may be true, Sweden may have a high quality of life, but that quality of life is paid for with what's in essence bullshit economics, a pyramid scheme. Sweden isn't unique in that of course, pretty much all modern countries are run that way.
But that's the problem with all pyramid schemes. They eventually collapse.
There was a time when the American economy was the envy of the world. But it was built up during the 20th century on voodoo economics that pay for things now by going into debt. At some point in time that debt is due. In the US we're getting to that point right now.
Sweden may be fine for now, with high quality of life and all. But don't expect that to last forever. Someone eventually will have to flip the bill.
Wait...what? What other countries have you lived in? Honestly, the standard of EVERYTHING in sweden is higher than any other country ive been to basically :P Theres alot of problems in sweden, but quality of life is not one of them. Immigration and prize of alcohol, maybe ^^
Ok, I read your location and couldn't help laughing. No wonder you feel like that when you live in Poland :poly142: It's cold, grey and everything smells like piss; I would know, I was born in its shittiest region. Give yourself a few months more and you'll end up bitter just as everyone else :poly124:
One thing I miss are prices of cigarettes. £2 for a pack of Marlboro's? Yes please.
Ok, I read your location and couldn't help laughing. No wonder you feel like that when you live in Poland :poly142: It's cold, grey and everything smells like piss; I would know, I was born in its shittiest region. Give yourself a few months more and you'll end up bitter just as everyone else :poly124:
One thing I miss are prices of cigarettes. £2 for a pack of Marlboro's? Yes please.
Well, I have lived in sweden in almost my entire life, but I have been to alot of countries, and worked abroad aswell. :P And nah, I live in warsaw, and my standard of livinghere is actually waay higher than it was in sweden :P So...naaah
also, if you think Poland is cold and grey..you should visit sweden. Its like poland. But colder, and more gray.
seriously
even now, when i read news, not only news from germany, but from different countrys
i get really sad about all that shit thats going on
if i were to know everything whats going on i could never be happy anymore
i propably will never understand why people are so fucking rotten on the inside
despite this little rant. i think it´s a good thing what wikileaks is doing
maybe some decissions will not be made because they get afraid of what will happen if it gets leaked
i propably will never understand why people only report on what isso fucking rotten on the inside.
Fixed. No one reports on nice, nice is boring, nice is average... as in like the majority of the people on the planet. It's easy to get a skewed focus if you only ever read or see news that is designed to catch your attention in the easiest way possible.
Switch your news diet to something that serves up more science, tech and art. Sadly the best source for that I've found is NPR, PBS and other educational networks that are "publicly funded" or soon to be de-funded if certain members of congress have their way.
Anywho more science, tech and art than poltics will do ya good. You'll get a little bit more positive thoughtful reporting. Stay on the fast food news diet and only eat politics and gossip, you're going to live a shorter life.
Fixed. No one reports on nice, nice is boring, nice is average... as in like the majority of the people on the planet. It's easy to get a skewed focus if you only ever read or see news that is designed to catch your attention in the easiest way possible.
Switch your news diet to something that serves up more science, tech and you'll get a little bit more positive thoughtful reporting. Stay on the fast food news diet and only eat politics and gossip, you're going to live a shorter life.
Yes! This did me wonders. I included much more sci/tech in google-news, and less OMG TUNE IN TO FOX-NEWS AT 11 TO SEE HOW THE WORLD WILL END stuff, which is mostly bull anyways.
I really can't explain what I wanted to more and steal this thread, but what I said mostly wasen't really noted (IMO), which makes sense because this is not the right thread.
The resources are there, we are the ones who have to take them and change our world from what it is to what it could be.
Again let me say this:
The Venus Project is NOT a Utopia, no one is forced to do anything, if you want to be deaf, awesome. If you want to hear, and we have the tech. go ahead.
Nothing is forced. When you reach this point you will realize that all these small issues are useless and not worth doing at all!
The MATRIX stuff is what I feel could be awesome, not Jacque, Me. It would probably never be that way, but it would be cool to realize it.
If someone IS a murderer and has tendencies to kill, why not put them in the MATRIX rather than having them kill?
When we reach the level of the Venus Project all the hard questions we cannot answer today will be the easiest of them all.
Also... why would you want utopia? I WANT problems, so I can fix them.
I am probably not the best advocate for Jacque, the best thing to do would be to become more pro-active towards this and read/listen/watch what this amazing 94 year old has to say.
seriously
even now, when i read news, not only news from germany, but from different countrys
i get really sad about all that shit thats going on
if i were to know everything whats going on i could never be happy anymore
"Is there such a thing as a purely selfless deed--one with no hidden motives whatsoever? Walter F. Rutkowski from the Carnegie Hero Fund spends his days measuring good deeds by some very stringent criteria--such as risking your life "to an extraordinary degree while saving or attempting to save the life of another person." We got in touch with three of these bona fide heroes to ask what went through their minds the moment they leapt into action. The heroes: Lora Shrake (who squared off with a 950-pound bull); Bill Pennell (who repeatedly dove into a burning car for survivors); and Wesley Autrey (who jumped in front of a subway train to save a fellow rider)."
Anywho more science, tech and art than poltics will do ya good. You'll get a little bit more positive thoughtful reporting. Stay on the fast food news diet and only eat politics and gossip, you're going to live a shorter life.
Are we listening/reading the same thing? Or its just interpretation? I do all that and I come back with..
WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE REPRODUCING/HAVING KIDS IN THIS? Its like *fuck* *fuck* "Ive reproduced! Yaeee! My Gene Line goes on!" Who cares if the kids are going to be stuck with a lower quality of living that's possibly going to get worse because we were too narcissistic to change.
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I dunno, I've been here since 1998 and the general forums have always had a pretty good amount of off-topic bullshit
Anyway, I had submitted another post in the thread earlier but it got gobbled up when the server went crizazy. I'll just let it go and focus on sketching out my Penis Tank commander in hopes there's a PC Civil War contest!
You watch how he seems to roll over on everything for the Republicans these days, you would think he were a Republican stoog.
I'm waiting for the day where he actually stands up and acts progressive and (gasp!) maybe even a little socialist, like his ardent rightwing critics constantly accuse him of being. Most everything going on these days in government is something center right or outright rightwing; maintenance of the status quo for the last 30 years.
Exactly. And people called Bush a conservative. The only thing he ever conserved was the status quo. Back then I thought the Democrats blaming Bush for being "too conservative" was ridiculous, cause he wasn't one at all. But now the Republicans are doing the same thing to Obama, calling him a socialist, where really he just continues on the same policy as the previous administration, which is exactly what the previous administration did. All the way back for decades.
All this Republican vs Democrats thing is as ridiculous, if not more so, as Polycount vs GA.
It's important to discuss important issues with your peers!
their less likely to get mad and punch you than any old punter! :poly142:
Mhm..
And now they will flush Assange down the toilet and use the whole controversy as an argument against net neutrality/free speech. Again, just my paranoid mind at work.
Never let a crisis go to waste.
You effin' said it.
They change meanings constantly. Not to long ago how people perceive "republicans" were actually the "democrats". They just switch to the winning side.
Its just a matter of what scum is chosen for "X" corporation. Its no different than it was during the days of the railroad tycoons its just corporations are better at hiding their puppet strings now.
As for the war shit.
Wars are evil. -period-
Both sides do atrocious shit, because you don't win a war with hugs, kisses, teddy bears and penis ribbons.
I am not advocating the use of human land mine detectors, but this isn't the first time soldiers have used this tactic, nor are we the first country to do this. Neither is this the first time innocent people have been killed in a war. Every war, at all, ever, in the history of man has had innocents die. Yes its terrible; yes I feel bad for those affected; war is evil.
Wikileaks adds a level of transparency that needs to exist. The government will probably let the dude go after a big over dramatized court case where inevitably it'll be decided that its a matter of free speech and that it cannot and will not be taken down.
However, it will then probably just be used to feed the public information to help governments corral them. Disinformation.
EDIT: Unless its a polycount civil war in which case, making a primordial dwarf with testicals for an adam's apple that have tumors who is hugging a giant teddy bear penis pillow with a ribbon on it will probably win you the war.
This is what I fear the most. Not that government, and as George Carlin called them 'The owners of this country'- all these vested interests; that they are going to go after this and make the case for more censorship and control. That I expect, I don't fear that. I fear that people in this country just don't care enough to fight back, and that the powerful are going to take more control and most people will just... let them.
Apathy is a powerful enemy.
The net seems like the last bastion of real freedom and power we 'the people' have.
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Just to add why wikileaks is important, you just can't make these things up:
WikiLeaks: Texas Company Helped Pimp Little Boys To Stoned Afghan Cops
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
another reason why we need wikileaks.
http://act.demandprogress.org/act/wikileaks/?akid=32.156360.9fLVFp&rd=1&source=e1&t=1
http://fora.tv/2010/04/18/Logan_Symposium_The_New_Initiatives#fullprogram
Its quite long, but its chaptered well.
Some discretion is necessary, however. Just as we utilize secrecy and privacy in our daily lives to avoid conflict and deal with situations, the government has to be able to do the same. For example, the documents from Middle Eastern nations urging the U.S. to attack Iran? Nothing about those cables were illegal, and releasing them to the world poses a significant risk to the stability of the entire region. We're lucky that Iran hasn't gotten pissed yet and started shooting. There is absolutely no reason to release that document or any other jeopardizing the peace or safety of anyone.
Lastly, yeah, we spy on people. That's how we find out about things like terrorist plots. You never know where a threat might come from, so you spy on everyone, even if they're a UN diplomat. Get over it.
I think George Orwell just turned over about a million times in his grave... then his head exploded. Christ.
edit - nvm... reread your post and I hope you didn't mean what I initially thought you did.
I didn't mean EVERYONE if that's what you thought. I meant other countries. It's good to know what everyone else is up to.
Is a man not entitled to the sweat on his brow a childishly idealized utopia and a waterslide made of chocolate?
It's funny because Jacque always says how in United States no one believes in him and most just scorn him without knowing his work. In other countries he is praised for what he does and all the help he provides.
He just wants people to realize how life could be and how we should care more about our earths resources rathar than being pedant and live in a world where freedom is never truely realized.
I could go on and on but I can't tell you much more than what the website offers...
Here is his wikipedia page and a inerview he did back in 74.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco
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I don't want to take over this thread but all this wouldn't happen if we lived life like this :poly124:
Nothing dates faster than peoples fantasies about the future.
- Robert Hughes
Here's a segment from the BBC documentary: Shock of the New's Segment about Brasilia.
The utopian dream of what the Brazilian Capital was supposed to be, and the practicality of it.
http://wn.com/Brasilia_Segment_from_The_Shock_of_the_New
Interesting read by the architect of this fallen utopia:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/12/brazil
Sorry I haven't watched those videos, they are buffering as I type this. The quote you wrote doesn't really apply to this type of work, only because what he is saying is not fantasy, most of it could have been achieved 20-30 years ago.
Also, the Venus Project is not "utopia". (He says this in video 2 of his interview). It will change, it can change, it has to change, it's never perfect and nothing will ever will be in this regard.
Edit: I just watched that video and am about to read that article. This is another quote from that video :poly121:.
"This is what you get when you design for polital aspirations and not human needs."
I just skimmed through the article and it seems to me that the problem was: poor design, bad use of materials and just really terrible engineering. When people started pouring in to live in this community, they didn't advance, they just stayed the same, people got over crowded and it became a slum for the rich.
Man I want to answer these questions myself but I think the FAQ can do most of this
http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project-introduction/faq
Sent by this weird guy.
We deserve to know what our government is doing; always.
If he goes to jail, our country will only fall to its doom that much quicker.
I'm very familiar with the so-called 'resource based economy'.
The problem with it, is that it does not account for human greed. It's essentially what communism is at it's core. And it's failed.
Doctors should get MORE resources because of the skills and knowledge they have over a waiter. If there were no monetary motivations, there would be far less doctors.
Keep in mind 'Money', was initially supposed to just be a legal tender in exchange for gold... a note in exchange for a resource.
BTW, China is the #1 economic superpower because of their manpower, not because of their natural resources.
It may not be much, but I think every little bit helps.
http://www.avaaz.org/en/wikileaks_petition/?rc=fb
Will there be human greed if everything you need is there for you to use, for free? I think if someone wanted to be a doctor, a social helper, they could learn everything they needed from the vast information that is in our world today.
This would only be temp. until machines take over. Doctors usually look at a patient, observe their condition and treat it with their knowledge of past experiences involving that same condition, or use a resource (book, another doctor, etc.), I'm 100% sure a machine could do the same, and also do it much better than a human.
Take it a step further you could create a virtual world, like the MATRIX where one could input the information of ones brain and recreate them in new world.
We could do this for everyone who died until we could create another humanoid/machine type being (cyborg?) where we could input the information from the MATRIX (if they wanted to) and have them live in the "real" world. If we needed to learn more, we could simply download anything in seconds..
What if some traits where found to be a weakness and therefor a danger to the group?
What if in order to build a stronger future we needed to cull the more shallow weaker parts of the gene pool? Are those people sterilized and not allowed to procreate? Do they never get to experience being parents? Or do they raise someones genetically superior baby? Because they're deemed "weaker" are they looked down on and viewed as a subclass even if every law makes them equal?
What if even if you mange to clean everyone up and put them modern futuristic housing, they still managed to hold grudges, be influenced by mob mentality and still had dark sides.
What if later on some of those things where found to be the reverse? What if things didn't always go as planned?
What if people had to improvise after centuries of being bread not to? Do we keep a few free thinkers locked away in case we need some out of the box ideas?
What if people still grow old and die and this makes other people miserable? Do we enact a cerimony where everyone goes out on a good note at the age of 30, we tell them that everyone goes back into the great machine for a while to let someone else come out, if only there was enough room in utopia for everyone.
At the risk of invoking Godwin's law... there was a group that sought to do just that. It didn't go so well. It's been the subject and speculation of many books and think tanks also and often the chances of utopia being tainted runs high unless you remove humans from it.
There will always be conflict and there will always be mistakes, its how choose to deal with those two things that defines our future. We don't need to run away to specialized colonies where its members only. We just need to talk more, fight less and have some fuckin empathy for other people.
There will always be people like Tyler Durden. I would be so bold as to say there is a little Durden in all of us and that to truly live in utopia we have to give that up. In doing so do we deny something that makes us who we are? If we see it as a useless weakness and we arrogantly purge it from ourselves and we find later that it was valuable and we do indeed need those pieces but they can't be retrieved... what then?
Best to get your head out of the clouds now and learn to deal with the imperfect people now because honestly the only way we are going to get to true utopia is to figure out how to work around our imperfections. We won't need grand plans or master architect deities, social engineering or even badly designed space yachts floating in front of crappy primative shaped mansions. BTW how much did they pay for those images because I could do a hell of a lot better and probably charge less... That would go a long way in creating my utopia
As I said before, it's not a group, a member only colony, or anything that will separate people and create "tribes". It's TEAM HUMAN! If there is someone in the world that was wired differently (like a killer or something of that nature), I'm sure we could find a way to heal him.
There are rules, but they aren't anything that should be, or would be in forced because people would realize themselves.
I think the bigger question is: can we grow beyond thinking that "someone" has to make decisions for us?
There are going to be universities that study human behavior and will try to fix those problems as well, we cannot look the other way when it comes to that.
I know 3 deaf people, very talented artists.
1 is legally deaf but she can hear with super hearing aids but then its not so great.
2 and 3 have been deaf from birth and both have had chances to have major surgery done to "heal" or attempt to "restore" their hearing, they both declined and are now too old. Those procedures did work on 1 and it is why she is able to partial hear.
I've asked 2 & 3 if you could hear just like everyone else would you? No side effects no half hearing just wake up and bam you hear. They both say the same thing even though they are total opposites.
No.
So naturally I ask why, they both say they are normal people who don't need to be made whole. They communicate fine, have relationships, they drive cars and see movies there is nothing to fix because there is nothing broken they are who they are and they accept it.
Ahh but if they could just hear for a day then make the choice? Would they really say no?
1 says she didn't have a choice the window to do the procedures was when she was young and her parents opted to do it. They always viewed being deaf as a negative thing and worked tirelessly to help her hear and live a normal life, going to regular public school, not teaching her sign language, keeping her away from deaf devices because they thought they would hinder her normal development. Doctors said the tests showed that she could hear well enough with super hearing aids. She hears fine, there must be something else, she must be slower?
Truth was she really couldn't hear that well but she had learned to compensate in other ways that she was able to "cheat" the tests. She read body language she felt vibrations, in her head, in her chest she read expressions and lips pretty well. But was too young to articulate what she was hearing, what was normal hearing to her? If they said that was normal, ok thats what everyone else normally heard. It must be something else.
Because they tried to force a normal life on her they made things harder. When she was 12 they "gave up" it was a big deal as if she was giving up on being normal. They enrolled her in a deaf school, she got the tools that normal deaf people have access too, she caught up and excelled, graduated from college and is an amazing artist. Most of the time doesn't wear the aids. Even though there have been good improvements and she's had more procedures done since then. She says its worse knowing that what she hears is not great. She looks back and wonders what if they had just not gone through it all.
But she never really hears perfectly?
My point is to get to utopia you have to break some eggs and make some really hard choices. In utopia will people feel a pressure to be normal and fit in will that pressure lead to bad choices that actually cause misery instead of a normal life?
You say if someone is a murder then we find a way to fix them, or we plug them into the matrix?
What if they never murder anyone and you find that they have a trait that could possibly lead to them murdering someone in the future?
What if they don't want to go do you force it on them in order to keep the peace of the greater good? Who enforces those rules?
How do you keep everyone in line?
How do you deal with decent?
Anytime you define a code or a set of rules there has to be some way to enforce them. I point to Rome and specifically Nero where most of societies problems where taken care of. The life of leisure lead to debauchery and all kinds of seriously freaky abuses of power. What if people get bored and start acting out...
That is probably one of the most common misconceptions about communism / socialism.
To each according to his contribution is considered by some Marxists and other socialists as a characteristic of society directly following the transition to socialism, but preceding the final step to communism. This essentially means that people are rewarded based on the amount they contribute to the social product.
The term means simply that each worker in a socialist society receives wages and benefits according to the quantity and value of the labor that he or she contributed. This translates into workers of high productivity receiving more wages and benefits than workers of average productivity, and substantially more than workers of low productivity. An extension of this principle could also be made so that the more difficult one's job is - whether this difficulty is derived from greater training requirements, job intensity, safety hazards, etc. - the more one is rewarded for the labor contributed. The purpose of the principle, as Trotsky would later state, is to promote productivity. This is done by creating incentives to work harder, longer, and more productively. The principle is ultimately a stowaway from capitalism that, according to Marx, will vanish as work becomes more automated and enjoyable, and goods become available in abundance.
You can read the rest here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_each_according_to_his_contribution
And about people being to greedy, I think you have to make the distinction between selfishness and self-interest.
I find it Ironic that the same pro-capitalist ideologues who preach that people are too greedy for socialism who then turn around to demand workers tighten their belts for the common good whenever they want to lower our wages, lay us off, or cut our social programs.
To each according to his contribution indeed, but it rarely - if ever, stops at that, now does it?
Seems like like socialism is the next big thing in America and the rest of the world - something that hot-headed youngsters will bring up at the slighest sign of cracks in the current form of goverment. It's conceived as the awnsers to all of their prayers, yet they do not fully understand it and what it will bring about. I belive Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn called them the "Little Devils", gullible borderline radicals who are instrumental is bringing such a form of goverment into power.
Needless to say i've experienced socialism most of my life, i live in Sweden - probably one of the most socialist states there were. While it is not bad, it is not good either. Socialism not only changes the economic model of the nation, as many people seem to belive, but culturally, morally and ethically aswell. The amount of apathy, lack of economic growth and domestication it brings about alone is enough to put a nation on it's knees, not to mention the subversive and corrosive social engineering being forced upon the people.
Once you've adopted socialism you'll continously walk a fine line between it, and cultural-marxism. This is when you'r society gets twisted into a clusterfuck of reality absent norms: Black is white, good is bad, family has no value, men are to be as women, women are to be as men, identity is nonexistent and so on. Naturally you don't get to hear about these things.
It's kinda like the matrix, you can't be told what it is, you will have to see/live it for yourself. :poly121:
As for real communism; Slavery under a small priveleged elite, packaged and sold to the ignorant as equality, selflessness or whatever mantra people use to defend it with.
All in all be careful what you wish for.
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but this is the coolest campaign ever.
It's that Obama, he's going to socialize everything just like we socialized the financial collapse.... whispers just like HE socialized the financial collapse.
BTW tax cuts for the rich, love it! Love you, merry Christmas! You all rock! 2012! We'll suck you dry! whispers We're really high! whispers I mean we're ridding high!
I was in no way advocating the kind of reformist socialism you have had in Sweden. And I seriously doubt real socialism is the next big thing in America
I think you should make a clear distinction between true socialism, the first phase of communism, and a government with socialist ideas operating in a capitalist system, like in Sweden. Because as far as I know, Sweden has always had a free market? Eventhough, your claims that it has slowed economic growth sounds like BS, because economic growth in Sweden has been on the same upward trend as Germany for the past decades (current crisis not included). Apart from that your
And real communism is the opposite of what you claim: It's a stateless and classless society.
What you describe as real communism, Slavery under a small privileged elite, packaged and sold to the ignorant as equality, to me sounds more like what we are experiencing today.
Naturally i never meant to describe us as being true socialist, yet given western standards we pretty much are. I admit to 'lack of economic growth' being a bad choice of words, perhaps individual standards would be better.
Pure communism is a stateless and classless society, i said real communism. By that i mean the type of communistic model that has been established thus far throughout history, where the state is god - a despotic dystopia under the guise of equality. Again, perhaps a bad choice of words.
As for socialism in America, perhaps unlikely but you never know
Wait...what? What other countries have you lived in? Honestly, the standard of EVERYTHING in sweden is higher than any other country ive been to basically :P Theres alot of problems in sweden, but quality of life is not one of them. Immigration and prize of alcohol, maybe ^^
Yes, that may be true, Sweden may have a high quality of life, but that quality of life is paid for with what's in essence bullshit economics, a pyramid scheme. Sweden isn't unique in that of course, pretty much all modern countries are run that way.
But that's the problem with all pyramid schemes. They eventually collapse.
There was a time when the American economy was the envy of the world. But it was built up during the 20th century on voodoo economics that pay for things now by going into debt. At some point in time that debt is due. In the US we're getting to that point right now.
Sweden may be fine for now, with high quality of life and all. But don't expect that to last forever. Someone eventually will have to flip the bill.
Ok, I read your location and couldn't help laughing. No wonder you feel like that when you live in Poland :poly142: It's cold, grey and everything smells like piss; I would know, I was born in its shittiest region. Give yourself a few months more and you'll end up bitter just as everyone else :poly124:
One thing I miss are prices of cigarettes. £2 for a pack of Marlboro's? Yes please.
Well, I have lived in sweden in almost my entire life, but I have been to alot of countries, and worked abroad aswell. :P And nah, I live in warsaw, and my standard of livinghere is actually waay higher than it was in sweden :P So...naaah
also, if you think Poland is cold and grey..you should visit sweden. Its like poland. But colder, and more gray.
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even now, when i read news, not only news from germany, but from different countrys
i get really sad about all that shit thats going on
if i were to know everything whats going on i could never be happy anymore
i propably will never understand why people are so fucking rotten on the inside
despite this little rant. i think it´s a good thing what wikileaks is doing
maybe some decissions will not be made because they get afraid of what will happen if it gets leaked
Switch your news diet to something that serves up more science, tech and art. Sadly the best source for that I've found is NPR, PBS and other educational networks that are "publicly funded" or soon to be de-funded if certain members of congress have their way.
Anywho more science, tech and art than poltics will do ya good. You'll get a little bit more positive thoughtful reporting. Stay on the fast food news diet and only eat politics and gossip, you're going to live a shorter life.
Yes! This did me wonders. I included much more sci/tech in google-news, and less OMG TUNE IN TO FOX-NEWS AT 11 TO SEE HOW THE WORLD WILL END stuff, which is mostly bull anyways.
The resources are there, we are the ones who have to take them and change our world from what it is to what it could be.
Again let me say this:
The Venus Project is NOT a Utopia, no one is forced to do anything, if you want to be deaf, awesome. If you want to hear, and we have the tech. go ahead.
Nothing is forced. When you reach this point you will realize that all these small issues are useless and not worth doing at all!
The MATRIX stuff is what I feel could be awesome, not Jacque, Me. It would probably never be that way, but it would be cool to realize it.
If someone IS a murderer and has tendencies to kill, why not put them in the MATRIX rather than having them kill?
When we reach the level of the Venus Project all the hard questions we cannot answer today will be the easiest of them all.
Also... why would you want utopia? I WANT problems, so I can fix them.
I am probably not the best advocate for Jacque, the best thing to do would be to become more pro-active towards this and read/listen/watch what this amazing 94 year old has to say.
That's why I listen to Radio Lab:
http://www.radiolab.org/2010/dec/14/i-need-a-hero/
"Is there such a thing as a purely selfless deed--one with no hidden motives whatsoever? Walter F. Rutkowski from the Carnegie Hero Fund spends his days measuring good deeds by some very stringent criteria--such as risking your life "to an extraordinary degree while saving or attempting to save the life of another person." We got in touch with three of these bona fide heroes to ask what went through their minds the moment they leapt into action. The heroes: Lora Shrake (who squared off with a 950-pound bull); Bill Pennell (who repeatedly dove into a burning car for survivors); and Wesley Autrey (who jumped in front of a subway train to save a fellow rider)."
Are we listening/reading the same thing? Or its just interpretation? I do all that and I come back with..
WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE REPRODUCING/HAVING KIDS IN THIS? Its like *fuck* *fuck* "Ive reproduced! Yaeee! My Gene Line goes on!" Who cares if the kids are going to be stuck with a lower quality of living that's possibly going to get worse because we were too narcissistic to change.
Ok this is overboard, but I feel like this sometimes. Even with responsible parents.
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Which, of course, stands for Wikileaks Task Force. Either they're really dumb, or really good at picking names.