Same, but I think what your referring to BJ isn't their intelligence (as a whole), but rather their ability to reason.
Thats what seperates us from animals, a mere aspect of intelligence.
A dog doesn't understand that a closed umbrella and an open umbrella are the same thing. Thats why one of the ultimate tests for a dog being trained for dea/pd/fbi etc is to have it stand front to front with a man holding an umbrella pointed at them, at which point the man opens the umbrella.
If the dog runs he fails, if he stands aggressive he passes.
Why? They lack the reasoning ability to discern that the umbrella opened and instead just see something pop into existence.
It's an important differentiation, because you can teach a dog to bark/howl the tune of a song, and to a certain extent you could probably teach a dog different barks for the alphabet, the problem comes when he doesn't have the reasoning to understand how to construct words.
Thats not to say they aren't close, a dog learns to recognize its master. It can communicate its emotions, much the same way a small child does. So they're only missing a very very very small part, albeit an important part, of brain to bridge that gap.
Its definitely a let down on their announcement. The Discovery Channel had broadcast an episode that pointed out that life on another planet would be more likely to be completely foreign to our own even in base elemental construction a few years ago. I mean its cool that NASA confirmed it, but really...?
C'mon NASA I expect more from a collection of the "best and brightest"
For me, this is kind of the same feeling I got when Steven Hawking's thing a couple years ago turned out to be, "Hi everybody, I was wrong! Thanks for the awesome turn out."
well, there would be *something* there in the cows thoughts, something like 'grass grass grass shit grass grass sleep'
what if the alien race was of the opinion that our thoughts were to them, basically as simple as a cows thoughts are to us
And not only opinions, it would be their strong belief. We'd basicly be eating, shitting, working like ants, sexing stuff up, and generally acting like animals to them.
We've already found a high degree of intelligence in other lifeforms on earth than just humans, and we can also take into consideration that communication is not limited to language as we know it.
What I started that as was that aliens coming to harvest us is quite popular in scifi, and rightfully so, we could be seen as a good renewable source of energy or proteins, and our intelligence would be at a lesser level so that this more evolved species would see us as basicly being cattle.
Cows are pretty much a man made animal to this day though, our selective breeding haven't exactly favored the brain (and that is sort of how I imagine humanity ending up like in the human-cattle scenario)
While it is cool that NASA funded people have managed to force a bacterium to adapt in such a way as to alter its dna, this is also a "well YEAH" kinda moment for me.
Cool that its happened but its like. "Lets see if gravitation still works on mars."
No, not really. You force most species to "change their DNA" by adding arsenic and surprise, they die. What this discovery shows is that at least one species of microbe has already adapted and has the ability to live with an altered DNA structure (which is fucking crazy considering no other organism we know of can do it).
It's not so much, "lets see if gravitation still works on mars." as it is, "lets see if gravitation still works the same on mars if we fuck around with the gravitational constant."
And believe me if that test came back positive physicists would go apeshit.
I look at laws as things that are we simply haven't found the means to understand better. By getting stuck on law too much the potential that the law is flawed gets ignored.
Well I don't think anyone with a real scientific mind ever said, "Nope, DNA is the only way possible, it's the LAW." That's more or less why the field of astrobiology exists.
What this really proves is we don't have as good a grasp on biochemistry as we thought, rather than life being any more amazing a thing than it already is.
Yay for ignorance, lets move on into our new understanding with appropriate humility.
Hell, we've only know about DNA since 1869, and until the 50s most of what we knew was rather abstract. When you look at different editions of biochemistry textbooks you notice some pretty big additions and this is because biochemistry is a constantly expanding field. We know the fundamentals but there's a long way to go before we can say we've got a lock on how it all works.
And scientists know this, it's the public that has some nebulous ideas about what is and is not known. The ignorance isn't on the biochemists part here.
Though I'm sure there are some dicks who would have tried to completely fuck your career over if you'd suggested that arsenic could replace phosphorous, but hey, every field has its assholes.
Replies
Same, but I think what your referring to BJ isn't their intelligence (as a whole), but rather their ability to reason.
Thats what seperates us from animals, a mere aspect of intelligence.
A dog doesn't understand that a closed umbrella and an open umbrella are the same thing. Thats why one of the ultimate tests for a dog being trained for dea/pd/fbi etc is to have it stand front to front with a man holding an umbrella pointed at them, at which point the man opens the umbrella.
If the dog runs he fails, if he stands aggressive he passes.
Why? They lack the reasoning ability to discern that the umbrella opened and instead just see something pop into existence.
It's an important differentiation, because you can teach a dog to bark/howl the tune of a song, and to a certain extent you could probably teach a dog different barks for the alphabet, the problem comes when he doesn't have the reasoning to understand how to construct words.
Thats not to say they aren't close, a dog learns to recognize its master. It can communicate its emotions, much the same way a small child does. So they're only missing a very very very small part, albeit an important part, of brain to bridge that gap.
Its definitely a let down on their announcement. The Discovery Channel had broadcast an episode that pointed out that life on another planet would be more likely to be completely foreign to our own even in base elemental construction a few years ago. I mean its cool that NASA confirmed it, but really...?
C'mon NASA I expect more from a collection of the "best and brightest"
For me, this is kind of the same feeling I got when Steven Hawking's thing a couple years ago turned out to be, "Hi everybody, I was wrong! Thanks for the awesome turn out."
well, you know how your family members give you a blank stare when you excitedly talk about some new advancement in 3d technology? same thing.
And not only opinions, it would be their strong belief. We'd basicly be eating, shitting, working like ants, sexing stuff up, and generally acting like animals to them.
We've already found a high degree of intelligence in other lifeforms on earth than just humans, and we can also take into consideration that communication is not limited to language as we know it.
What I started that as was that aliens coming to harvest us is quite popular in scifi, and rightfully so, we could be seen as a good renewable source of energy or proteins, and our intelligence would be at a lesser level so that this more evolved species would see us as basicly being cattle.
Cows are pretty much a man made animal to this day though, our selective breeding haven't exactly favored the brain (and that is sort of how I imagine humanity ending up like in the human-cattle scenario)
No, not really. You force most species to "change their DNA" by adding arsenic and surprise, they die. What this discovery shows is that at least one species of microbe has already adapted and has the ability to live with an altered DNA structure (which is fucking crazy considering no other organism we know of can do it).
It's not so much, "lets see if gravitation still works on mars." as it is, "lets see if gravitation still works the same on mars if we fuck around with the gravitational constant."
And believe me if that test came back positive physicists would go apeshit.
Well I don't think anyone with a real scientific mind ever said, "Nope, DNA is the only way possible, it's the LAW." That's more or less why the field of astrobiology exists.
Hell, we've only know about DNA since 1869, and until the 50s most of what we knew was rather abstract. When you look at different editions of biochemistry textbooks you notice some pretty big additions and this is because biochemistry is a constantly expanding field. We know the fundamentals but there's a long way to go before we can say we've got a lock on how it all works.
And scientists know this, it's the public that has some nebulous ideas about what is and is not known. The ignorance isn't on the biochemists part here.
Though I'm sure there are some dicks who would have tried to completely fuck your career over if you'd suggested that arsenic could replace phosphorous, but hey, every field has its assholes.
HAHA!
Reminds me of "The Melting Pot" comic with art by the amazing Simon Bisley that I read when I was 9 years old.