It looks good on paper, but the interface is ungodly slow for me as well. Takes 3s to open up a menu right now, but I'm sure there's a solution for that if I look hard enough. Until then it's back to 2010 for me. Will probably take a few years to upgrade to this at work anyway
It looks good on paper, but the interface is ungodly slow for me as well. Takes 3s to open up a menu right now, but I'm sure there's a solution for that if I look hard enough. Until then it's back to 2010 for me. Will probably take a few years to upgrade to this at work anyway
you 1 step short of a fast release, im still in 2009.
so they failed at fixing the most critical aspect of 2010 for me and instead made it even worse? Thats very sad to hear that the GUI performance has become even worse as it already is in max 2010
I haven't got time to tried it myself, but so far reading others' post from other forum, heard that the viewport canvas was quite slow. But this might be wrong depending on hardware.
I'll give my personal opinion once I've played with it
Ok some positive news here: it all seems to work fine for me, except for some strange errors when I open it up. It works regardless though. I don't notice any menu's being slow, but this PC never had trouble with 2010 either (Q9550 with 6gb ram, 280GTX and an SSD). The Quicksilver renderer seems really, really fast, though it'll take some getting used to configuring it. Also they fixed the annoying problem where it wouldn't load the lights you have set in a DirectX Shader. The bugs with post shaders and SSAO are still there however.
What the shit??!!1
Installing Max 2011 broke my Scene Effect Loader utility in Max 2010 64bit, it doesn't work anymore with Post shaders I wrote last month! Now it only works in 2011 and 2010 32bit...
Nice jerb Autodesk...
I did just now. I think it's probably because the trial only includes a 32bit Max, and that it messes up some of the shared files for the 64bit version.
I can't think of any other reason, Ken. I'm a 100% positive my post shaders worked in 64bit Max 2010, as that is what I use all the time. Since trying them for the last time, the only thing I have installed is the 2011 trial.
It's not the first time for me that 64bit Max has more problems than the 32bit version with DirectX shaders and the like: in 2008 64bit I got lots of crashes and problems when using DirectX shaders that implemented realtime shadows, while 32bit was fine.
So I wanted to try the new painting tools and I want my model self illuminated so I can clearly see the texture and some seams, so I check vertex channel display in the model it's object properties, but the second I want to start painting the model loses it's self illumination (goes to a boring diffuse and default lighting, and it's hard to see the seams, and nearly impossible to paint it away (it's a very lowpoly character model)).
Am I missing something?
EDIT: Ok Kenny showed me that I could just put the viewport on flat Everything is bon!
So my first impression on max 2011 is....startup very slow..
I have decent machine core2quad @2.50ghz, 4gb ram, 8800gt running win7 32 bit.
the default UI which has dark theme was nice, but somehow I felt annoyed by the striking contrast of the grid color.
Besides that, amongst the dark color, when I activate graphite, it's the only toolbar with white background, creating contrast... I think it fits better with light theme.
Regarding graphite tools, response is quite slow and somehow I get annoyed by the big tooltip, I guess it make no difference with version 2010.
Slate material editor seems to take big portion of your screen, is there any way to dock? I have dual monitor to work on, but it must be intimidating for those with single monitor. Also it's a bit slow to load up as opposed to old material editor which load faster.
That's my personal experience so far. By no means I'm expert in max, but I think I still much prefer 2009.
I was so excited to see the features shown on demo, but once I got my hands on... oh well..
I can't think of any other reason, Ken. I'm a 100% positive my post shaders worked in 64bit Max 2010, as that is what I use all the time. Since trying them for the last time, the only thing I have installed is the 2011 trial.
It's not the first time for me that 64bit Max has more problems than the 32bit version with DirectX shaders and the like: in 2008 64bit I got lots of crashes and problems when using DirectX shaders that implemented realtime shadows, while 32bit was fine.
It's not surprising that you experience different results on 64b because the video driver is different on 64b - that would explain your experience.
However, it is surprising that installing the 2011 trial would affect some dependency in 2010. The 2011 trial should not install anything that affects how 2010 works. Unless you can make this reproducible, we won't be able to resolve it unless others find something like it. You're it so far.
So my first impression on max 2011 is....startup very slow..
I have decent machine core2quad @2.50ghz, 4gb ram, 8800gt running win7 32 bit.
the default UI which has dark theme was nice, but somehow I felt annoyed by the striking contrast of the grid color.
Besides that, amongst the dark color, when I activate graphite, it's the only toolbar with white background, creating contrast... I think it fits better with light theme.
Regarding graphite tools, response is quite slow and somehow I get annoyed by the big tooltip, I guess it make no difference with version 2010.
Slate material editor seems to take big portion of your screen, is there any way to dock? I have dual monitor to work on, but it must be intimidating for those with single monitor. Also it's a bit slow to load up as opposed to old material editor which load faster.
That's my personal experience so far. By no means I'm expert in max, but I think I still much prefer 2009.
I was so excited to see the features shown on demo, but once I got my hands on... oh well..
Yes, we moved some optimizations into start-up so your overall experience would feel faster. We're tackling the bigger problem as part of XBR: Diet. I don't know if you saw our presentation on XBR or not.
We're aware of the icon/color issues and they won't be there forever...
Grapphite is a lot faster in 2011 (according to beta users). You should make sure you have .NET 3.5 installed.
Hey Ken, I'm glad to hear issues like the slowness and brightness of the ribbon are on your mind. For years it's seemed to us as if development of 3ds Max was without direction. Now that you're in the process of improving max program-wide, have you considered keeping people up to date? This new open communication is really quite nice.
The yearly releases are still cause for irritation though, as more often than not a problem with one version of max is only tackled in the next version, which is never far off, forcing you to either get with the subscription (and I can understand why people might not be keen on that. I know I'm not) or to upgrade for fixes to issues they shouldn't have been suffering in such expensive software.
I'm only telling you this to hopefully clue you in as to why there is still a fair bit of negativity towards Autodesk, and how you could remedy that.
Also, on a more positive note: Have you considered a better system for wishlists? Uservoice.com is a personal favourite for feature requests.
Not only does it lower the border of having your say by voting for something, it'll bring us to more accurately gauge where our requests stand, rather than posting them on the wishlist forum and hoping for the best.
On the topic of things you're going to tackle: Are you aware of the frustation with shortcut override and the profoundly silly default shortcuts?
If not, here's one example: When you try to save in the uv-editor (ctrl-s) you end up just toggling snap.
Also, Max being the large and deep package that it is, is an overhaul of the customisation dialogs (keyboard shortcuts, quads etc...) something you're considering down the line?
The new features look awesome, specifically the Viewport Canvas and I do like the idea of the node based mat editor. But seriously, it's just so unbelievably slow it's unusable in a professional environment in my opinion.
Is there a reason the Viewport Canvas menu trails and ghosts when you reposition it? It just looks like a laggy mess.
I'm running an i7 920, 12GB RAM and a GTX285... should I really be experiencing this kind of slowdown? I know it's not a cutting edge spec but come on, it shouldn't struggle with such a hugely intricate and highly demanding task like rearranging the UI
I think I will be sticking with 2009 for now which sucks because I wanted to get into the Graphite tools in 2010 but felt it was too slow and laggy, and nothings changed with 2011.
Nice features, very very disappointing performance.
Hey Creation, yeah I am curious about that too. My Max2009 at work has the same problem with the UI - slow, trails and ghosting when moving UI elements around, yet when I try it on my home machine with very similar specs it super responsive and snappy. No idea what causes this.
Did you try the 32bits version too ? Who knows ....
Sometimes I feel like if autodesk started giving beta keys to polycount memebers they'd get the most awesome bug reports ever hehe!
Your system configuration plays a big role in performance. Drivers for even things like a mouse have caused major problems in the past. I know it is frustrating when the performance sucks on your particular machine but not on others. My guess is that if you installed on a totally clean system you wouldn't see the problem. Not much help though. Please check to see if you have .NET 3.5 installed. That is fairly crucial. You can have .NET 4.0 installed (and it will be even faster) but we don't support it and we can't predict what will happen to you. Some people have tried this without their machine melting, but be aware.
re: communication
Have you been following any of the six blogs covering 3ds Max on the AREA? Great way to get info.
Ken: I would follow your blog, only it doesn't have an rss feed!
That's not all I mean, though. This communication, the non-official talking that occurs with users on a more personal basis, that's what I'm talking about. Ofcourse you have limited time, but even short messages every now and again are appreciated, as long as we know where Max is going, and much more importantly: that our complaints and fears are known and being dealt with in a good way. That the time people put into things that matter to our specific workflow, like the max baking issue, are being looked into, for instance.
When I read your blog and see that you analysed a shit-ton of mentions of 3ds max on forums and twitter for positive or negative vibes, that's not half as helpfull as you posting on here.
edit: sent an email, by the way. I might have been too late, but we'll see.
I just want to jump in and say how heartening this level of community interaction and support is. Its great to see a big company listening to its user base, and addressing specific concerns.
I own a license of Silo, which I bought because they used to listen to their customers. Now they're completely silent, ignore all communications, and have had known showstopper bugs in the app for over a year.
I look forward to digging back into Max and making it a useful part of my workflow again.
+1 to Scoobys comment, it really is great to see the people behind the software actually getting involved with the community that actually rely on their software for their profession.
@Pior - I must admit I haven't tried 32 bit, although I assume it may be much the same. But yeah, 2009 runs like light speed in all aspects compared to 10/11. No ghosting or refresh issues.
@Ken - Thanks for your replies. I'll check the .NET thing, hopefully updating that might sort it. I only built the system I used to test it about 2-3 weeks ago so it's running pretty clean.
With regards to 2011 being faster, I guess it depends what's tested. If it's things like rendering, material updates, baking etc then i can see how it might be faster, but it's just the general software performance that is crawling.
re: wishlist system
I 100% agree. I'm leading an internal effort to do something about this. No promises, I don't win every time, but I have a pretty good track record.
That's not all I mean, though. This communication, the non-official talking that occurs with users on a more personal basis, that's what I'm talking about. Ofcourse you have limited time, but even short messages every now and again are appreciated, as long as we know where Max is going, and much more importantly: that our complaints and fears are known and being dealt with in a good way. That the time people put into things that matter to our specific workflow, like the max baking issue, are being looked into, for instance.
I agree.
Ken, thanks for being highly visible in the community and by that I mean with the area blog, webinars, and active on several forums not just here. It really goes a long way in clearing away a lot of the nerd rage that pops up. We probably demand a lot and push you guys in 20 different directions at the same time but its great that you guys are digging in and really getting to some great stuff and letting us know along the way.
About the 32bit trial:
I've only tried it out on my dual core 32bit XP machine at home and its more responsive than 2010 was. I was pretty worried my dino-box would choke on some of the stress tests I ran but it seemed to do as well even a little better than 2010, so thanks again.
I really really like the new viewport canvas, this is going to save a lot of time for me, its a good addition. I was worried the brush would lag like the old brush tools, but it doesn't.
I'm not sure if it also can be set up to paint vertex colors, or if masks can be rendered out and applied to things like soft selection or skin weights but it would be pretty great if it could.
I like the composite tools, it MIGHT replace after effects at work for us. The crazy things that AE has us do to get what we want look to be a lot easier to do in Composite.
The new material editor is great, but chugs a bit on my dinosaur at home. There are things I can do to speed that up so I won't pin all the blame on max... its nice that the old material editor is there too. Being used to it I'll probably pull it up more often.
I didn't have too much time to test out all the new features or to check and see if some of my pet peeves have been addressed or if any of the scripts I use still work. So I'll need to really dig in before I give it my stamp of approval but so far I like what I see and I haven't been disappointed.
i run the trial of 3dsmax on xp SP3 8800GT and 260GTX with the latest graphics drivers and updates.
While on 260 i had some slowdowns while using canvas but overall max felt very smooth and stable. When i installed the trial on the 8800GT machine it ran a lot faster and smoother in canvas, quicksilver and overall the quality of the visuals in the viewports was better. So 8800GT wins for me hands down and i enjoy working there with max. Slate takes too much screen space and i do not like nodes in material editor. I find them very useful in particle events etc. but not with materials.
My main complains are that you can't change channels on the fly like in mudbox and that you can't paint bump\specular etc. live while looking at the final result and this is where mudbox just swoops the prize. Viewport canvas although too good, needs a little bit more polishing compared to mudbox.
Our riggers are so happy with CAT, animators will test it as well. The new arrangement of graphite is sweet and in general i think this release is exactly what i expected so far! Definitely worth upgrading!
Having said that I really love viewport canvas, and how it worked so smoothly on my 8 series card, after i used mudbox 2011 i must confess that it simply stole the thunder from it..
I can't imagine myself using anything else to texture characters and organics and after using both tools especially mudbox I even dare to declare photoshop dead. permanently that is! If it wasn't for my wife using it i would uninstall it right away. mudbox has exactly the tools I need. No more no less. I'm officially in love If you haven't tried it so far i STRONGLY recommend it.
I found myself giggling and even laughing out loud with euphoria like a kid while sculpting a rough zombie in about 30 mins with quite a bit of detail and generating some pretty complex looking textures (they were in fact too simple) in no more than 10 minutes using the standard stamps with bump maps, diffuse and specular. And i have not yet touched vector displacement maps
i read someone saying that he was disappointed that self illumination doesn't show while painting with canvas. It should show. But not for the reason you use it but to have live preview of your material.
You can use flat shade mode instead of self illumination if you want to see your textures clearly a much better method! SI was a workaround before flat shading existed.
Thanks for the feedback. I hope the release stands up to everything you throw at it. We know we have some bumps, but a hot fix is working it's way through the system as we speak. We also have a hot fix for 2010 - just to prove that we don't ignore the prior release after we issue a new release.
My main complains are that you can't change channels on the fly like in mudbox and that you can't paint bumpspecular etc. live while looking at the final result
I'm glad you mentioned this since it was something I was wanting to confirm.
So you can't see spec/bump updates in realtime as you paint? I'm yet to properly explore 3D texture painting in any app but it seems to be gaining popularity and becoming a increasingly important part of a game art workflow.
I have 0 experience with Mudbox though and was hoping this realtime spec painting would come to Viewport Canvas.
3D painting is not gaining popularity in production. It is pretty much a standard in most studios I know of.
I think you shouldn't judge the tool based on these two issues though. Overall the experience is very solid. They are minor workflow issues that can be improved and not blockers by any means. It still is faster to texture in max than photoshop after you get used to it which as i said is very fast and easy.
the swapping channel thing is not very big you can change ofc very fast, just not by simply clicking on the bump or spec layer like you do in mudbox.
you need to stop using the tool (i.e, brush, gradient, bucket) then the option to change will become available. which takes less than a second . For many it might not even be an issue.
A quick solution for this would be.. to program the tool so that when the user clicks on the channel button he is automatically turning off the tool under the hood and on again automatically after he chooses channel or cancels the dialogue.
Also the final result it shows immediately after you stop using the tool just not in real time.
i.e. for a sneak peek you click on the button of the tool you are using. It is still faster than saving in photoshop and swaping to max for the final result
I assume this has to do with the way max compiles shaders. It would be a further improvement when they fix it.
changing brush size and hardness is so smooth and intuitive.(ctrl+shift ctrl+alt) i love the move and rotate layer as they work directly on the model too this is simply amazing when overlaying detail textures And i absolutely love the way the brush size stays fixed on the screen and doubles both as brush and stencil awesome idea that makes texturing so fast !
There are many nice things about it so don't judge by only these two things. It's just a slightly different workflow but very interesting and faster for sure!
Did you try the 32bits version too ? Who knows .... <- Me too had lag and menu trails when positioning the window. But it could be because I haven't installed .net 3.5
funny- i had to check what the ribbon was, as i disabled the graphite tools and the veiwcube pretty soon after install. the graphite tools were causing vert alpha issues (values reseting), and the veiwcube made the veiwports lag considerably
are these things fixed in 11? or in the recent 10 hotfix?
elte i got the same card right here. No such issue.
re-install from microsoft website the latest .net
i had the same issue on my win7. supposedly they come pre-installed.. well not quite i guess.
Thanks for your recommendation. I'll give it a try. What do you mean by re-install? And what's the latest? 4.0 RC1? Can you refer the website link? That would be helpful, I'm trying to get offline installer coz max is installed on another pc and no internet connection.
Replies
Im finding the viewport speed good but the interface is pretty damn slow(stiil
you 1 step short of a fast release, im still in 2009.
http://trial.autodesk.com/3dsmaxproducts/2011/Autodesk_3ds_Max_2011_English_Win_32_Trial.exe
I haven't got time to tried it myself, but so far reading others' post from other forum, heard that the viewport canvas was quite slow. But this might be wrong depending on hardware.
I'll give my personal opinion once I've played with it
Didn't try viewport canvas yet.
I really need to be able to bind the colorpicker to a key, pressing the button under the colorwheel every time is a pain.
Would also be great to have some configurations for tablet pressure affecting opacity, size and so on.
A decent start but not really useful for me at all as is now.
Installing Max 2011 broke my Scene Effect Loader utility in Max 2010 64bit, it doesn't work anymore with Post shaders I wrote last month! Now it only works in 2011 and 2010 32bit...
Nice jerb Autodesk...
Defect Report Submission Form
It's not the first time for me that 64bit Max has more problems than the 32bit version with DirectX shaders and the like: in 2008 64bit I got lots of crashes and problems when using DirectX shaders that implemented realtime shadows, while 32bit was fine.
Am I missing something?
EDIT: Ok Kenny showed me that I could just put the viewport on flat
I have decent machine core2quad @2.50ghz, 4gb ram, 8800gt running win7 32 bit.
the default UI which has dark theme was nice, but somehow I felt annoyed by the striking contrast of the grid color.
Besides that, amongst the dark color, when I activate graphite, it's the only toolbar with white background, creating contrast... I think it fits better with light theme.
Regarding graphite tools, response is quite slow and somehow I get annoyed by the big tooltip, I guess it make no difference with version 2010.
Slate material editor seems to take big portion of your screen, is there any way to dock? I have dual monitor to work on, but it must be intimidating for those with single monitor. Also it's a bit slow to load up as opposed to old material editor which load faster.
That's my personal experience so far. By no means I'm expert in max, but I think I still much prefer 2009.
I was so excited to see the features shown on demo, but once I got my hands on... oh well..
It's not surprising that you experience different results on 64b because the video driver is different on 64b - that would explain your experience.
However, it is surprising that installing the 2011 trial would affect some dependency in 2010. The 2011 trial should not install anything that affects how 2010 works. Unless you can make this reproducible, we won't be able to resolve it unless others find something like it. You're it so far.
Yes, we moved some optimizations into start-up so your overall experience would feel faster. We're tackling the bigger problem as part of XBR: Diet. I don't know if you saw our presentation on XBR or not.
We're aware of the icon/color issues and they won't be there forever...
Grapphite is a lot faster in 2011 (according to beta users). You should make sure you have .NET 3.5 installed.
The yearly releases are still cause for irritation though, as more often than not a problem with one version of max is only tackled in the next version, which is never far off, forcing you to either get with the subscription (and I can understand why people might not be keen on that. I know I'm not) or to upgrade for fixes to issues they shouldn't have been suffering in such expensive software.
I'm only telling you this to hopefully clue you in as to why there is still a fair bit of negativity towards Autodesk, and how you could remedy that.
Also, on a more positive note: Have you considered a better system for wishlists? Uservoice.com is a personal favourite for feature requests.
Not only does it lower the border of having your say by voting for something, it'll bring us to more accurately gauge where our requests stand, rather than posting them on the wishlist forum and hoping for the best.
If not, here's one example: When you try to save in the uv-editor (ctrl-s) you end up just toggling snap.
Also, Max being the large and deep package that it is, is an overhaul of the customisation dialogs (keyboard shortcuts, quads etc...) something you're considering down the line?
The new features look awesome, specifically the Viewport Canvas and I do like the idea of the node based mat editor. But seriously, it's just so unbelievably slow it's unusable in a professional environment in my opinion.
Is there a reason the Viewport Canvas menu trails and ghosts when you reposition it? It just looks like a laggy mess.
I'm running an i7 920, 12GB RAM and a GTX285... should I really be experiencing this kind of slowdown? I know it's not a cutting edge spec but come on, it shouldn't struggle with such a hugely intricate and highly demanding task like rearranging the UI
I think I will be sticking with 2009 for now which sucks because I wanted to get into the Graphite tools in 2010 but felt it was too slow and laggy, and nothings changed with 2011.
Nice features, very very disappointing performance.
Did you try the 32bits version too ? Who knows ....
Sometimes I feel like if autodesk started giving beta keys to polycount memebers they'd get the most awesome bug reports ever hehe!
Yes, we're aware. I think more configurability would be a good idea. As part of XBR, the whole UI is getting reviewed/reconsidered.
re: 2011 slow
At least 60% of beta users said 2011 was faster than 2010 or prior. 94% said it was at least as fast. http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/ken/3ds_max_and_3ds_max_design_2011_are_now_shipping
Your system configuration plays a big role in performance. Drivers for even things like a mouse have caused major problems in the past. I know it is frustrating when the performance sucks on your particular machine but not on others. My guess is that if you installed on a totally clean system you wouldn't see the problem. Not much help though. Please check to see if you have .NET 3.5 installed. That is fairly crucial. You can have .NET 4.0 installed (and it will be even faster) but we don't support it and we can't predict what will happen to you. Some people have tried this without their machine melting, but be aware.
re: communication
Have you been following any of the six blogs covering 3ds Max on the AREA? Great way to get info.
The first 10 people that send me an email will get on the beta:
ken.pimentel AT autodesk.com
That's not all I mean, though. This communication, the non-official talking that occurs with users on a more personal basis, that's what I'm talking about. Ofcourse you have limited time, but even short messages every now and again are appreciated, as long as we know where Max is going, and much more importantly: that our complaints and fears are known and being dealt with in a good way. That the time people put into things that matter to our specific workflow, like the max baking issue, are being looked into, for instance.
When I read your blog and see that you analysed a shit-ton of mentions of 3ds max on forums and twitter for positive or negative vibes, that's not half as helpfull as you posting on here.
edit: sent an email, by the way. I might have been too late, but we'll see.
Yes, they all have RSS feeds. Go to the area.autodesk.com/blogs and look on the left side of the screen. http://area.autodesk.com/blogs
I own a license of Silo, which I bought because they used to listen to their customers. Now they're completely silent, ignore all communications, and have had known showstopper bugs in the app for over a year.
I look forward to digging back into Max and making it a useful part of my workflow again.
@Pior - I must admit I haven't tried 32 bit, although I assume it may be much the same. But yeah, 2009 runs like light speed in all aspects compared to 10/11. No ghosting or refresh issues.
@Ken - Thanks for your replies. I'll check the .NET thing, hopefully updating that might sort it. I only built the system I used to test it about 2-3 weeks ago so it's running pretty clean.
With regards to 2011 being faster, I guess it depends what's tested. If it's things like rendering, material updates, baking etc then i can see how it might be faster, but it's just the general software performance that is crawling.
I 100% agree. I'm leading an internal effort to do something about this. No promises, I don't win every time, but I have a pretty good track record.
Ken, thanks for being highly visible in the community and by that I mean with the area blog, webinars, and active on several forums not just here. It really goes a long way in clearing away a lot of the nerd rage that pops up. We probably demand a lot and push you guys in 20 different directions at the same time but its great that you guys are digging in and really getting to some great stuff and letting us know along the way.
About the 32bit trial:
I've only tried it out on my dual core 32bit XP machine at home and its more responsive than 2010 was. I was pretty worried my dino-box would choke on some of the stress tests I ran but it seemed to do as well even a little better than 2010, so thanks again.
I really really like the new viewport canvas, this is going to save a lot of time for me, its a good addition. I was worried the brush would lag like the old brush tools, but it doesn't.
I'm not sure if it also can be set up to paint vertex colors, or if masks can be rendered out and applied to things like soft selection or skin weights but it would be pretty great if it could.
I like the composite tools, it MIGHT replace after effects at work for us. The crazy things that AE has us do to get what we want look to be a lot easier to do in Composite.
The new material editor is great, but chugs a bit on my dinosaur at home. There are things I can do to speed that up so I won't pin all the blame on max... its nice that the old material editor is there too. Being used to it I'll probably pull it up more often.
I didn't have too much time to test out all the new features or to check and see if some of my pet peeves have been addressed or if any of the scripts I use still work. So I'll need to really dig in before I give it my stamp of approval but so far I like what I see and I haven't been disappointed.
While on 260 i had some slowdowns while using canvas but overall max felt very smooth and stable. When i installed the trial on the 8800GT machine it ran a lot faster and smoother in canvas, quicksilver and overall the quality of the visuals in the viewports was better. So 8800GT wins for me hands down and i enjoy working there with max. Slate takes too much screen space and i do not like nodes in material editor. I find them very useful in particle events etc. but not with materials.
My main complains are that you can't change channels on the fly like in mudbox and that you can't paint bump\specular etc. live while looking at the final result and this is where mudbox just swoops the prize. Viewport canvas although too good, needs a little bit more polishing compared to mudbox.
Our riggers are so happy with CAT, animators will test it as well. The new arrangement of graphite is sweet and in general i think this release is exactly what i expected so far! Definitely worth upgrading!
Having said that I really love viewport canvas, and how it worked so smoothly on my 8 series card, after i used mudbox 2011 i must confess that it simply stole the thunder from it..
I can't imagine myself using anything else to texture characters and organics and after using both tools especially mudbox I even dare to declare photoshop dead. permanently that is! If it wasn't for my wife using it i would uninstall it right away. mudbox has exactly the tools I need. No more no less. I'm officially in love
I found myself giggling and even laughing out loud with euphoria like a kid while sculpting a rough zombie in about 30 mins with quite a bit of detail and generating some pretty complex looking textures (they were in fact too simple) in no more than 10 minutes using the standard stamps with bump maps, diffuse and specular. And i have not yet touched vector displacement maps
i read someone saying that he was disappointed that self illumination doesn't show while painting with canvas. It should show. But not for the reason you use it but to have live preview of your material.
You can use flat shade mode instead of self illumination if you want to see your textures clearly a much better method! SI was a workaround before flat shading existed.
I'm glad you mentioned this since it was something I was wanting to confirm.
So you can't see spec/bump updates in realtime as you paint? I'm yet to properly explore 3D texture painting in any app but it seems to be gaining popularity and becoming a increasingly important part of a game art workflow.
I have 0 experience with Mudbox though and was hoping this realtime spec painting would come to Viewport Canvas.
I think you shouldn't judge the tool based on these two issues though. Overall the experience is very solid. They are minor workflow issues that can be improved and not blockers by any means. It still is faster to texture in max than photoshop after you get used to it which as i said is very fast and easy.
the swapping channel thing is not very big you can change ofc very fast, just not by simply clicking on the bump or spec layer like you do in mudbox.
you need to stop using the tool (i.e, brush, gradient, bucket) then the option to change will become available. which takes less than a second . For many it might not even be an issue.
A quick solution for this would be.. to program the tool so that when the user clicks on the channel button he is automatically turning off the tool under the hood and on again automatically after he chooses channel or cancels the dialogue.
Also the final result it shows immediately after you stop using the tool just not in real time.
i.e. for a sneak peek you click on the button of the tool you are using. It is still faster than saving in photoshop and swaping to max for the final result
I assume this has to do with the way max compiles shaders. It would be a further improvement when they fix it.
changing brush size and hardness is so smooth and intuitive.(ctrl+shift ctrl+alt) i love the move and rotate layer as they work directly on the model too this is simply amazing when overlaying detail textures
There are many nice things about it so don't judge by only these two things. It's just a slightly different workflow but very interesting and faster for sure!
Just try it yourself and see!
Did you try the 32bits version too ? Who knows .... <- Me too had lag and menu trails when positioning the window. But it could be because I haven't installed .net 3.5
will come back with update.
Also it could be graphics drivers and video card.
which graphics card you have?
are these things fixed in 11? or in the recent 10 hotfix?
nice to see you here Ken
re-install from microsoft website the latest .net
i had the same issue on my win7. supposedly they come pre-installed.. well not quite i guess.
Thanks for your recommendation. I'll give it a try. What do you mean by re-install? And what's the latest? 4.0 RC1? Can you refer the website link? That would be helpful, I'm trying to get offline installer coz max is installed on another pc and no internet connection.
not re installed
3.5 SP1 should do the trick i guess.
http://www.microsoft.com/Net/Download.aspx
also offline .net should be included in a folder called "support" that came along with your setup.
This link details the problem and contains an example to recreate the issue.
http://area.autodesk.com/forum/autodesk-3ds-max/maxscript/load-list-controllers/post-162252/#p162252