Cliff is good at what he does and he's successful. Thus, there are haters.
Exactly... Just like with anything. People hate Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, and so many other people.
Seems people want to tear others down to make themselves feel more special and just jealous. I think it's awesome how Cliff can do what he loves and get paid well for it. Good on him. Our industry doesn't have a ton of "celebrity" type people so it is nice to see that we can get some recognition with our "silly" games...
I think his attitude, his T-Shirt, and how he spins passively most interviews into "Hey, I'm old school, I have unproven facts and I have a GF", not to mention how he started into the Game Dev by simply playing Mario alot might have something to do with it...
He is the reason many smuck gamers who know nothing about game Dev want to become one...
How is he not old school? He worked as a designer on jazz jackrabbit and unreal, that's about as oldschool as somebody his age can GET. He started into game dev by playing good games and trying to make good games, just like... everybody else who's ever gotten into game development!
This snobby elitist attitude about people not being 'real nerds' or whatever is toxic.
What's wrong with having a girlfriend and wearing your hair in a douchey fashion, exactly? I mean, I think he seems like a dork, but he's a dork who has consistently made good videogames, for a long time. He deserves respect as much as any successful designer.
The guys living the dream, folks always hate that. this isn't really the thread topic though is it?
So is Unrealscript now gone totally?
Yup. So you either use Kismet or code in C++. Also their blueprint system is a great idea...being able to have kismet on individual objects (another similarity to Unity)
Speaking of which, I couldn't resist:
Of course I fiddled with the Unity UI to make it more closely match the UE4 interface...and the node editor is an add-on, but its still pretty similar.
Makes me happy to see some of the features that I really like about Unity making their way into UE4
fuck i would rather hang out with cliffy than interact with some of the totally socially incompetent ive met in this industry. atleast he looks like he showers and can shoot the shit as well as slam back some booze he always seems super stoked about what he is promoting/doing, and thats a good attitude to have.
How is he not old school? He worked as a designer on jazz jackrabbit and unreal, that's about as oldschool as somebody his age can GET. He started into game dev by playing good games and trying to make good games, just like... everybody else who's ever gotten into game development!
This snobby elitist attitude about people not being 'real nerds' or whatever is toxic.
What's wrong with having a girlfriend and wearing your hair in a douchey fashion, exactly? I mean, I think he seems like a dork, but he's a dork who has consistently made good videogames, for a long time. He deserves respect as much as any successful designer.
You missed my gist, he is not the bad guy, but the way gamers see him as the ultimate being to aspire to, and become a game dev to buy Ferrari's and have Game Groupies...that's toxic.
This is no me being an elitist, but knowing that if you want to get into the game industry, you better fucking know your stuff, or else you're becoming a hindrance to everyone around you in the studio and pipeline.
And I may sound as an elitist now, but would it be so hard for your average artist to learn a little bit of extra stuff? Like say what a normal map is instead of "Oh, it's that special map that makes stuff look nice".
I can't tell how many times I visited a studio and half of the guys have no idea what they're doing...it's sickening, all because they want to be like Cliffy B...THAT is toxic, it's not his fault, but if the people who look up to you are kids who want to 'get into it'...I just have a hard time separating the Idol and the Idolaters since one cannot exist without the other.
I have less then flattering things to say about Cliffy B. at this point on a more personal level, but since people like to tackle each point individually instead of reading the whole argument as a whole, I'll just drop it here.
Also, when I say reading, I mean understanding the general idea and gist of it, I have no reason to spend 1024 characters for each point, as if I'm debating something in congress...I know, I know, bad example.
So this basicaly says UE4 will be a UDK style release ( atleast how i understood when he sayd : i tried to put my self in a indie seat and see what i will be able to make from a indie perspective )
This is no me being an elitist, but knowing that if you want to get into the game industry, you better fucking know your stuff, or else you're becoming a hindrance to everyone around you in the studio and pipeline.
but how was their art? I've seen a lot of super technical guys show off their work using other artist's models - why can't they be bothered to learn some color theory & anatomy?
What I like most about the node system in UE4 is that animating effect that shows you how far effects are getting in the pipeline. Very nice.
And just one more comment on the whole Cliffy-B thing. Someone made the comparison with Kobe Bryant. Sure, some people are sad enough to hate him cause he's successful. But some don't like him cause he's a rapist. That's obviously no comparison with just being a bit of a douche, but people that claim that all people who don't like Cliffy-B are jealous of his money/success, are just being silly. I wouldn't want to be him for all his money, cars, or even his position, truthfully, even if it's a sweet gig he has, that I'm sure he did actually earn in his life. I dislike him after watching that cringeworthy showing on the Gears making of. Seriously, it was embarrasing.
But yeah, we are really really off-topic here. This thread is about the UE4 engine.
I don't think people would ever be fooled into thinking that becoming a game dev turns them into some kinda rockstar with ferrari's and groupies...
Also I don't see the problem with Cliffy B either, I always saw him as a good role model - he seems successful, hard working and, he's easy on the eyes *Schoolgirl Giggle*
but how was their art? I've seen a lot of super technical guys show off their work using other artist's models - why can't they be bothered to learn some color theory & anatomy?
Everyone knows that programmer colours are more than adequate! 255 green, 255 red and 255 blue ftw. Combine if you need more than three colours.
You missed my gist, he is not the bad guy, but the way gamers see him as the ultimate being to aspire to, and become a game dev to buy Ferrari's and have Game Groupies...that's toxic.
This is no me being an elitist, but knowing that if you want to get into the game industry, you better fucking know your stuff, or else you're becoming a hindrance to everyone around you in the studio and pipeline.
And I may sound as an elitist now, but would it be so hard for your average artist to learn a little bit of extra stuff? Like say what a normal map is instead of "Oh, it's that special map that makes stuff look nice".
I can't tell how many times I visited a studio and half of the guys have no idea what they're doing...it's sickening, all because they want to be like Cliffy B...THAT is toxic, it's not his fault, but if the people who look up to you are kids who want to 'get into it'...I just have a hard time separating the Idol and the Idolaters since one cannot exist without the other.
I have less then flattering things to say about Cliffy B. at this point on a more personal level, but since people like to tackle each point individually instead of reading the whole argument as a whole, I'll just drop it here.
Also, when I say reading, I mean understanding the general idea and gist of it, I have no reason to spend 1024 characters for each point, as if I'm debating something in congress...I know, I know, bad example.
Dude, you sound like a bully.
He doesnt have your arbitrary specific knowledge, so he's less deserving than you? It's toxic for people to be successful without having the same specific skills you do?
How much of a dick would I be if i said that you're a poser or a hack or whatever because you cant draw as well as i can, or play sports as well as I can, or cant beat me in streetfighter, or whatever arbitrary criteria i pick? He makes games. He makes good games. He talks about making games. He got famous for those three things... Seems like he deserves it.
Nobody misunderstands what he knows, everybody knows he's a hype/pitch guy and a game designer. He's not lying to or misleading anybody. Im sure you're a better technical artist than cliffyb, i'm pretty sure he's a better game designer than you... Live and let live.
He doesnt have your arbitrary specific knowledge, so he's less deserving than you? It's toxic for people to be successful without having the same specific skills you do?
How much of a dick would I be if i said that you're a poser or a hack or whatever because you cant draw as well as i can, or play sports as well as I can, or cant beat me in streetfighter, or whatever arbitrary criteria i pick? He makes games. He makes good games. He talks about making games. He got famous for those three things... Seems like he deserves it.
Nobody misunderstands what he knows, everybody knows he's a hype/pitch guy and a game designer. He's not lying to or misleading anybody. Im sure you're a better technical artist than cliffyb, i'm pretty sure he's a better game designer than you... Live and let live.
I think he was more referring to the fact that when fans see cliffyb, and when they aspire to be like cliffyb, often you get just about anyone who can slam 'i want maek teh cool gaems liek clifb' into world chat in WoW looking for industry positions at all costs.
I agree that that is toxic because a lot of people are doing everything they can to enter an industry that isn't all 'playing games' and easy work; things don't just magically form because you thought them up and it's what you want. Just about every job in the industry, each one a specialty, requires tons of skilled labor, craftsmanship, and technical skills. People see cliffyb promoting games and talking about gameplay in visceral, abstract terms, and they see the 'idea guy gamer', they think 'hey I can do that; that's what I want to be'.
It's not cliffyb's fault, as Ace mentioned, but imo it is understandable to be a little turned off by the image he is producing of what a 'game developer' is.
But that's like saying that Hazardous getting noticed on kotaku makes being a 3d artist look like it's all about dreaming up hot babes and chun li fanart.
Cliffyb is a game designer. His JOB is to think about visceral, abstract terms, and then do the very tough work of shaping them into a meaningful, interesting game. Of course it looks fun. it is fun! Art's the same way! Very cool, very fun.
But anybody who wants to try it out will also realize that it's very hard work. No harm, no foul.
I expect that Epic will ship their around game Christmas 2013, or shortly thereafter. How long it takes for a public build to arrive after that is anyone's guess, but I doubt it will be particularly immediate.
Epic will probably release their flagship UE 4 title before that. And the flagship title has always had an editor on PC.
No. Releasing game have nothing to do, on releasing UDK. I'm sure they release UDK-UE4 (?) quickly for few reasons:
1. They allready have UDK-UE3. It was big success, it lured many new people and developers to engine.
2. They will want to expand with UE4 as quickly as possible. What's better way than giving you software for free. Market is very diffrent than it was when UDK-UE3 was released, and they have really strong competition.
3. What's better way to test your software than making public beta ?
But. Ue4 still need heavy opimization it wasn't running that great on GF680 (between 25 to 40fps), and it should be able to run smoothing on middle-end hardware.
Future consoles won't be ridiculously expensive and powerful machine. My bet is they will be something between mid high end pc of this year. As none of companies (Sony and MS), can't afford to constantly pay half of price for each sold console.
No. Releasing game have nothing to do, on releasing UDK. I'm sure they release UDK-UE4 (?) quickly for few reasons:
1. They allready have UDK-UE3. It was big success, it lured many new people and developers to engine.
2. They will want to expand with UE4 as quickly as possible. What's better way than giving you software for free. Market is very diffrent than it was when UDK-UE3 was released, and they have really strong competition.
3. What's better way to test your software than making public beta ?
But. Ue4 still need heavy opimization it wasn't running that great on GF680 (between 25 to 40fps), and it should be able to run smoothing on middle-end hardware.
Future consoles won't be ridiculously expensive and powerful machine. My bet is they will be something between mid high end pc of this year. As none of companies (Sony and MS), can't afford to constantly pay half of price for each sold console.
I personally hope they release it sometime in the near future, but I won't be holding my breath.
UDK has alot of documentation that is helpful to people, and that takes alot of time to compile. People will complain and moan if they don't have information on how to use something, or they are using it wrong and reporting bugs that are a result of user error.
You also mention the hardware issue, and I think it is scene dependant, but it is also a good reason for them not to want to release it. There are dipshits with 4 year old laptops that to this day complain that they can't use the latest UDK because it doesn't work on their card.
I also think that they are still developing features for the engine and the earlier in the process the more bugs there are to sort out.
Well that remains to be seen, their light propagation volumes in Crysis 2 didn't seem that awesome, the change in volume subdivision in the distance was really apparent in tight areas like sewers.
By day, players will scavenge the landscape, building fortifications, setting traps and doing whatever else it takes to plan for the night. At night, enemy monsters will attack and, hopefully, your day-planning will have have been good enough to get you through the fight.
I dont know if this applies to everyone at the real time panel but according to one of the Naughty Dog dudes for the VFX talk, there's no slides and everything needs to be shown realtime. Also forgot to put a link to the siggraph store. really hope Epic releases some videos
cool stuff, RLR or dynamic framerate cubemaps? I wonder how they are achieving that?
edit: nvm, it says right there, it's an interpolation inbetween cubemaps and raytraced reflections by distance. Which is awesome. We're finally having REAL realtime reflections.
Replies
http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/original/2012/06/UE4_Elemental_time_of_day_032.jpg
http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/original/2012/06/UE4_Elemental_Cine_screen_00032.jpg
That remains to be seen, but I'd say it's more friendlier than UE 3
Exactly... Just like with anything. People hate Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, and so many other people.
Seems people want to tear others down to make themselves feel more special and just jealous. I think it's awesome how Cliff can do what he loves and get paid well for it. Good on him. Our industry doesn't have a ton of "celebrity" type people so it is nice to see that we can get some recognition with our "silly" games...
How is he not old school? He worked as a designer on jazz jackrabbit and unreal, that's about as oldschool as somebody his age can GET. He started into game dev by playing good games and trying to make good games, just like... everybody else who's ever gotten into game development!
This snobby elitist attitude about people not being 'real nerds' or whatever is toxic.
What's wrong with having a girlfriend and wearing your hair in a douchey fashion, exactly? I mean, I think he seems like a dork, but he's a dork who has consistently made good videogames, for a long time. He deserves respect as much as any successful designer.
So is Unrealscript now gone totally?
Yup. So you either use Kismet or code in C++. Also their blueprint system is a great idea...being able to have kismet on individual objects (another similarity to Unity)
Speaking of which, I couldn't resist:
Of course I fiddled with the Unity UI to make it more closely match the UE4 interface...and the node editor is an add-on, but its still pretty similar.
Makes me happy to see some of the features that I really like about Unity making their way into UE4
You missed my gist, he is not the bad guy, but the way gamers see him as the ultimate being to aspire to, and become a game dev to buy Ferrari's and have Game Groupies...that's toxic.
This is no me being an elitist, but knowing that if you want to get into the game industry, you better fucking know your stuff, or else you're becoming a hindrance to everyone around you in the studio and pipeline.
And I may sound as an elitist now, but would it be so hard for your average artist to learn a little bit of extra stuff? Like say what a normal map is instead of "Oh, it's that special map that makes stuff look nice".
I can't tell how many times I visited a studio and half of the guys have no idea what they're doing...it's sickening, all because they want to be like Cliffy B...THAT is toxic, it's not his fault, but if the people who look up to you are kids who want to 'get into it'...I just have a hard time separating the Idol and the Idolaters since one cannot exist without the other.
I have less then flattering things to say about Cliffy B. at this point on a more personal level, but since people like to tackle each point individually instead of reading the whole argument as a whole, I'll just drop it here.
Also, when I say reading, I mean understanding the general idea and gist of it, I have no reason to spend 1024 characters for each point, as if I'm debating something in congress...I know, I know, bad example.
Link : HERE
but how was their art? I've seen a lot of super technical guys show off their work using other artist's models - why can't they be bothered to learn some color theory & anatomy?
What I like most about the node system in UE4 is that animating effect that shows you how far effects are getting in the pipeline. Very nice.
And just one more comment on the whole Cliffy-B thing. Someone made the comparison with Kobe Bryant. Sure, some people are sad enough to hate him cause he's successful. But some don't like him cause he's a rapist. That's obviously no comparison with just being a bit of a douche, but people that claim that all people who don't like Cliffy-B are jealous of his money/success, are just being silly. I wouldn't want to be him for all his money, cars, or even his position, truthfully, even if it's a sweet gig he has, that I'm sure he did actually earn in his life. I dislike him after watching that cringeworthy showing on the Gears making of. Seriously, it was embarrasing.
But yeah, we are really really off-topic here. This thread is about the UE4 engine.
Shit... if someone offered me a Ferrari and Groupies I'd take him up on that offer on the spot. Why not?
woop, nm just realized i was responding to a post about 4 pages back, carry on. UE4 looking great, very excited about kismet changes
1. Those who think they know something.
2. And those who work.
Also I don't see the problem with Cliffy B either, I always saw him as a good role model - he seems successful, hard working and, he's easy on the eyes *Schoolgirl Giggle*
Everyone knows that programmer colours are more than adequate! 255 green, 255 red and 255 blue ftw. Combine if you need more than three colours.
Dude, you sound like a bully.
He doesnt have your arbitrary specific knowledge, so he's less deserving than you? It's toxic for people to be successful without having the same specific skills you do?
How much of a dick would I be if i said that you're a poser or a hack or whatever because you cant draw as well as i can, or play sports as well as I can, or cant beat me in streetfighter, or whatever arbitrary criteria i pick? He makes games. He makes good games. He talks about making games. He got famous for those three things... Seems like he deserves it.
Nobody misunderstands what he knows, everybody knows he's a hype/pitch guy and a game designer. He's not lying to or misleading anybody. Im sure you're a better technical artist than cliffyb, i'm pretty sure he's a better game designer than you... Live and let live.
I think he was more referring to the fact that when fans see cliffyb, and when they aspire to be like cliffyb, often you get just about anyone who can slam 'i want maek teh cool gaems liek clifb' into world chat in WoW looking for industry positions at all costs.
I agree that that is toxic because a lot of people are doing everything they can to enter an industry that isn't all 'playing games' and easy work; things don't just magically form because you thought them up and it's what you want. Just about every job in the industry, each one a specialty, requires tons of skilled labor, craftsmanship, and technical skills. People see cliffyb promoting games and talking about gameplay in visceral, abstract terms, and they see the 'idea guy gamer', they think 'hey I can do that; that's what I want to be'.
It's not cliffyb's fault, as Ace mentioned, but imo it is understandable to be a little turned off by the image he is producing of what a 'game developer' is.
Cliffyb is a game designer. His JOB is to think about visceral, abstract terms, and then do the very tough work of shaping them into a meaningful, interesting game. Of course it looks fun. it is fun! Art's the same way! Very cool, very fun.
But anybody who wants to try it out will also realize that it's very hard work. No harm, no foul.
Nobody knows. My GUESS is that UDK based on UE4 will be released next year.
http://www.gamesradar.com/unreal-engine-4-games-coming-2013-epic-lead-own-titles/
Seems like 2013 is a more likely date : ))
No. Releasing game have nothing to do, on releasing UDK. I'm sure they release UDK-UE4 (?) quickly for few reasons:
1. They allready have UDK-UE3. It was big success, it lured many new people and developers to engine.
2. They will want to expand with UE4 as quickly as possible. What's better way than giving you software for free. Market is very diffrent than it was when UDK-UE3 was released, and they have really strong competition.
3. What's better way to test your software than making public beta ?
But. Ue4 still need heavy opimization it wasn't running that great on GF680 (between 25 to 40fps), and it should be able to run smoothing on middle-end hardware.
Future consoles won't be ridiculously expensive and powerful machine. My bet is they will be something between mid high end pc of this year. As none of companies (Sony and MS), can't afford to constantly pay half of price for each sold console.
I personally hope they release it sometime in the near future, but I won't be holding my breath.
UDK has alot of documentation that is helpful to people, and that takes alot of time to compile. People will complain and moan if they don't have information on how to use something, or they are using it wrong and reporting bugs that are a result of user error.
You also mention the hardware issue, and I think it is scene dependant, but it is also a good reason for them not to want to release it. There are dipshits with 4 year old laptops that to this day complain that they can't use the latest UDK because it doesn't work on their card.
I also think that they are still developing features for the engine and the earlier in the process the more bugs there are to sort out.
Well that remains to be seen, their light propagation volumes in Crysis 2 didn't seem that awesome, the change in volume subdivision in the distance was really apparent in tight areas like sewers.
http://kotaku.com/5925515/fortnite-will-be-the-first-unreal-engine-4-game
Sounds familiar.
They're supposed to do a talk at the real time panel. Starts at 5:30 today. Also just realized you can buy individual talks from siggraph for 9.99.
Damn, I was hoping they would be freely available afterwards.
http://siggraphencore.myshopify.com/products/2012-rlt103
I dont think they have the video preview up yet/waiting for Siggraph to get done so they can cut a preview.
Alright:
http://www.vgleaks.com/e3-2012-cryengine3-and-crysis-3-dx11-demonstration-leak-out/
edit: nvm, it says right there, it's an interpolation inbetween cubemaps and raytraced reflections by distance. Which is awesome. We're finally having REAL realtime reflections.