We tried to make it as simple as possible. It's $19 a month + 5% royalty. That's it. For that price, you get access to everything including the full engine source code. Cancel at any time, and continue using the version you have. Stay subscribed to get updates.
I'm glad you cleared that up. At $20 and canceling that seems fairly low but I hope it works out well for you guys involved because its an incredibly generous deal for indie developers. I guess I'll be doing my new project in UE4 now!
You can keep it though even if you cancel the subscription, but without updates.
It's kinda strangely constructed.
...then I don't see to much of a problem. It is a bit of a turn off though - but anyone who is pretty familiar with unreal already will most likely start subscribing to use it. With that being said, it'd be awfully nice if there was just a demo version in UDK form (binary) to test it out, e.g 30 day trial or limited features like Unity.
Either way, definitely going to get and try it out. I've been dying to try it out forever.
Eh, having to re-subscribe every time I want an update is no bueno old man.
The licensing model does make sense for indie devs and they can make money off schools teaching this stuff with this model as well. I'll be curious to see how they work a custom license for small devs wanting to do console development with Sony and Microsoft opening things up a bit more. This license only covers pc, mac, and mobile.
So you could get the current build for 20$..cancel..use that build to develop with until new updates came...resubscribe for that month....get updates..cancel again.etc?
not trying to be a smart ass..just seems like there is a huge loophole that people could take advantage of.
does the sub give you anything else besides updates?
Has even noticed that they deleted all! I mean all! the past work posted on the UDK Forums? Quite disrespectful that there's not even a archived version of it. https://forums.unrealengine.com/
Also to the post above, you wont be able to sell anything you make unless your subscribed I believe.
So you could get the current build for 20$..cancel..use that build to develop with until new updates came...resubscribe for that month....get updates..cancel again.etc?
not trying to be a smart ass..just seems like there is a huge loophole that people could take advantage of.
does the sub give you anything else besides updates?
You probably need to be subscribed in order to sell your game too. (not sure if this is true or not, correct me if I'm wrong).
But like Justin said its pretty much how it was before UDK - you needed to buy a game with Unreal in order to use the Editor to make mods, environments, whatever. And even then it probably cost more to buy the game itself (more than $20), and this time around you even get the source code too.
So you could get the current build for 20$..cancel..use that build to develop with until new updates came...resubscribe for that month....get updates..cancel again.etc?
not trying to be a smart ass..just seems like there is a huge loophole that people could take advantage of.
I think Epic will actually make more money off of this model. Before with UDK everyone would get updates for free and Epic would only see a dime if a project was actually completed and sold successfully.
Now Epic has a motivation to actually make meaningful updates to get people to subscribe again to pick up the update.
Do I have to worry about a billing contract or penalties for cancelling my subscription?
Your subscription payment automatically recurs, but you’re free to cancel at any time. There’s no penalty for cancellation.
When you cancel your subscription, you won’t receive access to future releases of Unreal Engine 4, however your login will remain active, and you are free to continue using the versions of Unreal Engine 4 which you obtained as a subscriber under the terms of the EULA.
If they are going for a subscription model, it is quite likely that updates for the engine are going to be coming in hot and heavy. (and frequently) It is quite likely that Unreal Engine 4 is going to be more of a living engine, with weekly, and in some cases daily updates and bugfixes. While the kind of loophole that some of you are describing might be feasible, it's not really the optimal solution either. Most active UE4 developers are going to want to just plop down the money for the subscription.
And honestly, I don't know why anyone would be actively trying to circumvent this new licensing model. It's not as cheap as Unity Free, but it is quite competitive with Unity Pro. You would have to continuously pay the subscription for four or more years just to equal what you would pay for a single Unity Pro license. The 5% is also very reasonable.
Honestly, I'm impressed with Epic for taking this approach. I think it's a good idea that will pay off decently for them. Larger studios will sign up for this kind of licensing without even blinking. The numbers work for them just fine. And having the full version of UE4 affordable for smaller indie developers will help Epic to stay competitive with Unity. It's a win-win with regularly recurring revenue for Epic.
BTW, this means no more NDA for us beta testers, so y'all can ask away
Is this very easy to get into compared to the Old UDK? Is the model importing the same, I also heard you no longer need to make a separate channel for a light map uv?
Also does anyone know if there is anything for universitys? I want to get mine to upgrade asap to this.
It isn't a loophole. If you want to do that (pay, unsub, use), you can.
Your account on the site will remain active and you can participate in the community, however software updates won't happen unless your subscription is active. We are going to be working hard to make sure the subscription is "worth it," but with the amount of content included it is totally worth it!
Check out our YouTube channel - there are a ton of videos there now!
importing models is the same just click import. it does manage to figure out if its skeletal or static or an animation so you dont have to specify all that initial crap like you used to.
if you know udk/ue3 youll be able to jump in and pretty much smile because its SOO much more intuitive and pleasant to work with.
Is this very easy to get into compared to the Old UDK? Is the model importing the same, I also heard you no longer need to make a separate channel for a light map uv?
Also does anyone know if there is anything for universitys? I want to get mine to upgrade asap to this.
You still need to make separate channel for lightmap. Though I presonally really didn't cared for it. I just used flattern mapping in max or atlas mapping in modo, or just copied my first channel and used autopacking on full mesh.
I hate how Adobe now Epic is requiring their product to be subscription-based. Now instead of paying it off upfront, I have to pay for it indefinitely until I stop using their product.
When I start out as an indie developer, I won't have a large income and it seems that this will get expensive quickly in the longterm.
1 year Subscription = $240
If you don't make $240 from revenue of games sold does that mean you are doing it wrong, or is Unreal Engine 4 not meant for indie developing? (unless you were rich to begin with)
I hate how Adobe now Epic is requiring their product to be subscription-based. Now instead of paying it off upfront, I have to pay for it indefinitely until I stop using their product.
When I start out as an indie developer, I won't have a large income and it seems that this will get expensive quickly in the longterm.
1 year Subscription = $240
If you don't make $240 from revenue of games sold does that mean you are doing it wrong, or is Unreal Engine 4 not meant for indie developing? (unless you were rich to begin with)
You do not have to be Subscribed after your first payment you can cancel and pay again when a major update is released. You only have to be subscribed when you start selling the product as well.
What is confusing is do you only have to be subscribed when you release the game or have to be as long as it is on market?
1 year Subscription = $240
If you don't make $240 from revenue of games sold does that mean you are doing it wrong, or is Unreal Engine 4 not meant for indie developing? (unless you were rich to begin with)
Well, a lot of game engines would usually have a licensing model that required you to drop $1,000+ upfront, for a single seat. At the rate Epic is quoting, you could get four years worth of a subscription to UE4 for the same price, including whatever updates and improvements they make during that time.
Also, no one is twisting your arm to use UE4. If you are a small indie, you always have the option of going with a cheaper/free engine. Unity's free version is quite good, and there are quite a few open-source options these days. While this new subscription model will help UE4 to be more competitive, it isn't going to be steamrolling over those other projects any time soon.
Subscription models are very favorable to long-term software development studios. It provides them with a recurring source of revenue that can be depended on. They don't get paid in fits and spurts, and can instead rely on a steady stream of income. When development is a constant ongoing process, this payment method is a good fit.
Regarding importing, one of the annoying things I noticed, is that you couldn't export an animation set from 3DS Max in any way, you know, like have a running, walking, jumping animation. As it is now, when you export and import it, you only get one long animation and no way to cut it up into several in engine. The only way I found to do it, is to export all the animation sets as seperate files and then import all those files.
I hate how Adobe now Epic is requiring their product to be subscription-based. Now instead of paying it off upfront, I have to pay for it indefinitely until I stop using their product.
When I start out as an indie developer, I won't have a large income and it seems that this will get expensive quickly in the longterm.
1 year Subscription = $240
If you don't make $240 from revenue of games sold does that mean you are doing it wrong, or is Unreal Engine 4 not meant for indie developing? (unless you were rich to begin with)
if you can't come up with 240 dollars a year I dunno how you can afford to eat so for sure doing something wrong, I can go metal detector a tourist beach in the summer and come up with more than 240 dollars.
although i'm not sure ill be jumping on the unreal 4 bandwagon quite yet, while I will eventually, I think its very well priced and a great deal for what you get.
I honestly can't fanthom why would anyone use anything other than UE4 for A+ game.
It just crushes Unity at this point, for this class of game. Hell, it crushes Unity for if you want to make any 3D game..
I would probably use Unity only if I was about to make 2D game.
You do not have to be Subscribed after your first payment you can cancel and pay again when a major update is released. You only have to be subscribed when you start selling the product as well.
What is confusing is do you only have to be subscribed when you release the game or have to be as long as it is on market?
Does that mean that I don't have to subscribe (pay monthly) until when I sell games? (meaning it is essentially a trial version for free until I use for commercial use? [giving me the use of their engine for creative exploration as apposed to merchandising use?]
Does that mean that I don't have to subscribe (pay monthly) until when I sell games? (meaning it is essentially a trial version for free until I use for commercial use? [giving me the use of their engine for creative exploration as apposed to merchandising use?]
Yes but you still need to pay 19 dollars upfront to be able to download the engine. I believe you also need to be subscribed to access the source code too.
Like others said if your a serious developer chances are you will be wanting new updates as they become available, so staying subscribed is probably smart in that area.
I honestly can't fanthom why would anyone use anything other than UE4 for A+ game.
It just crushes Unity at this point, for this class of game. Hell, it crushes Unity for if you want to make any 3D game..
I would probably use Unity only if I was about to make 2D game.
Bollocks. We had one short preview of Unity 5. What you wrote isn't based on facts. Both will probably be great softwares. Unity will probably still stay more friendly for developers.
Think twice before you grace us with what you think are undeniable truths.
I wonder if they're planning on making an asset store-like community for UE4 like unity has.
They have something in the hub application called the Marketplace, with some example content listed as being "free", so I feel pretty sure that they are.
I honestly can't fanthom why would anyone use anything other than UE4 for A+ game.
It just crushes Unity at this point, for this class of game. Hell, it crushes Unity for if you want to make any 3D game..
I would probably use Unity only if I was about to make 2D game.
Unity has its charm especially with the Unity 5 release, if you were making a 2d game id recommend gamemaker studio by yoyo games tbh, a lot of popular 2d games have come out of that, like hotline miami and gunpoint.
Game Engines are all just different horses for courses largely, I would never disparage one when they have all come along so far in favour of another.
Has even noticed that they deleted all! I mean all! the past work posted on the UDK Forums? Quite disrespectful that there's not even a archived version of it. https://forums.unrealengine.com/
That's a new forum. The old forums are still intact...
Bollocks. We had one short preview of Unity 5. What you wrote isn't based on facts. Both will probably be great softwares. Unity will probably still stay more friendly for developers.
Think twice before you grace us with what you think are undeniable truths.
Nah. I just say from what I have used over past year .
Blueprints is absolute new quality in game prototyping.
I'm probably biased, but I nevern could fully undestrand Unity and scripting for it. API wasn't clear, drag&drop script to use them was not that use friednly as some people claim.
Actually I found using C++ in UE4 easier than using C# in Unity 0_o.
How's the quality of normals and seams compared to UE3? The rendering is deferred I think, do they give good precision?
And what do people think of the lighting so far? Is lightmapping better? And HDRI support? I think they dropped the svogi, so I'm assuming anything that looks well lit is using lightmapping. Wasn't too impressed with the rendering in a lot of the videos I've seen, but what do people who've used it think? The editor looks great.
How's the quality of normals and seams compared to UE3? The rendering is deferred I think, do they give good precision?
And what do people think of the lighting so far? Is lightmapping better? And HDRI support? I think they dropped the svogi, so I'm assuming anything that looks well lit is using lightmapping. Wasn't too impressed with the rendering in a lot of the videos I've seen, but what do people who've used it think? The editor looks great.
Since I can tell everything I will say, tune your expectation down.
Yes lighting is miles better than it was in UE3. Mainly to new default shader setup.
There is far less seem with baking.
But there is the issue. Rendering engine didn't progressed at all over past year. We are still stuck with light maps. There is no good solution for dynamic shadows LODing, there is no any kind of dynamic GI.
Bakes still take lots of time. Bare you can work during bake, but when you work on lighting.. Well can you as well as read book.
I really do hope we will get dynamic gi solution. As the ancient lighting workflow is really setting engine back. Everything is so quick and fast to work with. And then you hit that lighting build button and you feel like are 7 years back in time...
Unreal Engine 4:
-Lightmass and static lighting.
-/+ you still have to do bit of tweaking to make good materials. It's plus and minus, because you can get more unique results, just by creating custom material.
+everything else
Something to keep in mind is that in the download, there's a starter pack of example content that contains a bunch of materials for you to get started with so figuring out the material system should be easier than it was in the beta.
Maybe I'm getting my hopes up, but does that mean you can continue to work on things like materials while UDK lightbakes in the background? Because that would be fantastic.
I understand why they kept lightmapping in, the performance gains are still pretty substantial albeit with diminishing returns as the years go by. You just have to be really strategic with when/how you work on lighting. If they were going to improve Lightmass, I'd like to see the ability to bake just a region of the map rather than the entire thing.
The major changes are probably having a HUGE impact on programmers. Many of them disliked not having full source access and even more wanted C++ support.
The pricing plan doesn't bother me. TB2 is more than worth $85, surely forking over $19 for the freaking UDK once in a while isn't the end of the world.
Replies
I'm glad you cleared that up. At $20 and canceling that seems fairly low but I hope it works out well for you guys involved because its an incredibly generous deal for indie developers. I guess I'll be doing my new project in UE4 now!
As long as this is true...
...then I don't see to much of a problem. It is a bit of a turn off though - but anyone who is pretty familiar with unreal already will most likely start subscribing to use it. With that being said, it'd be awfully nice if there was just a demo version in UDK form (binary) to test it out, e.g 30 day trial or limited features like Unity.
Either way, definitely going to get and try it out. I've been dying to try it out forever.
Then it's just $20 - prior to UDK we had to buy Unreal Tournament, uphill in the snow, both ways.
The licensing model does make sense for indie devs and they can make money off schools teaching this stuff with this model as well. I'll be curious to see how they work a custom license for small devs wanting to do console development with Sony and Microsoft opening things up a bit more. This license only covers pc, mac, and mobile.
not trying to be a smart ass..just seems like there is a huge loophole that people could take advantage of.
does the sub give you anything else besides updates?
https://forums.unrealengine.com/
Also to the post above, you wont be able to sell anything you make unless your subscribed I believe.
You probably need to be subscribed in order to sell your game too. (not sure if this is true or not, correct me if I'm wrong).
But like Justin said its pretty much how it was before UDK - you needed to buy a game with Unreal in order to use the Editor to make mods, environments, whatever. And even then it probably cost more to buy the game itself (more than $20), and this time around you even get the source code too.
I think Epic will actually make more money off of this model. Before with UDK everyone would get updates for free and Epic would only see a dime if a project was actually completed and sold successfully.
Now Epic has a motivation to actually make meaningful updates to get people to subscribe again to pick up the update.
From the FAQ (https://www.unrealengine.com/faq):
Do I have to worry about a billing contract or penalties for cancelling my subscription?
When you cancel your subscription, you won’t receive access to future releases of Unreal Engine 4, however your login will remain active, and you are free to continue using the versions of Unreal Engine 4 which you obtained as a subscriber under the terms of the EULA.
And honestly, I don't know why anyone would be actively trying to circumvent this new licensing model. It's not as cheap as Unity Free, but it is quite competitive with Unity Pro. You would have to continuously pay the subscription for four or more years just to equal what you would pay for a single Unity Pro license. The 5% is also very reasonable.
Honestly, I'm impressed with Epic for taking this approach. I think it's a good idea that will pay off decently for them. Larger studios will sign up for this kind of licensing without even blinking. The numbers work for them just fine. And having the full version of UE4 affordable for smaller indie developers will help Epic to stay competitive with Unity. It's a win-win with regularly recurring revenue for Epic.
Is this very easy to get into compared to the Old UDK? Is the model importing the same, I also heard you no longer need to make a separate channel for a light map uv?
Also does anyone know if there is anything for universitys? I want to get mine to upgrade asap to this.
Your account on the site will remain active and you can participate in the community, however software updates won't happen unless your subscription is active. We are going to be working hard to make sure the subscription is "worth it," but with the amount of content included it is totally worth it!
Check out our YouTube channel - there are a ton of videos there now!
https://unrealengine.com/faq#education
it's 20 not 20$ in Europe. Bloody VAT.
Edit: sorry, 19 of course, thought it's 19.99 for a moment:)
Developers in Europe pay €19 per user per month, including VAT
if you know udk/ue3 youll be able to jump in and pretty much smile because its SOO much more intuitive and pleasant to work with.
You still need to make separate channel for lightmap. Though I presonally really didn't cared for it. I just used flattern mapping in max or atlas mapping in modo, or just copied my first channel and used autopacking on full mesh.
Model importing is the same.
https://www.unrealengine.com/
You don't need to sign up to view them.
GOD.
0________________________0
https://www.unrealengine.com/
When I start out as an indie developer, I won't have a large income and it seems that this will get expensive quickly in the longterm.
1 year Subscription = $240
If you don't make $240 from revenue of games sold does that mean you are doing it wrong, or is Unreal Engine 4 not meant for indie developing? (unless you were rich to begin with)
What is confusing is do you only have to be subscribed when you release the game or have to be as long as it is on market?
Well, a lot of game engines would usually have a licensing model that required you to drop $1,000+ upfront, for a single seat. At the rate Epic is quoting, you could get four years worth of a subscription to UE4 for the same price, including whatever updates and improvements they make during that time.
Also, no one is twisting your arm to use UE4. If you are a small indie, you always have the option of going with a cheaper/free engine. Unity's free version is quite good, and there are quite a few open-source options these days. While this new subscription model will help UE4 to be more competitive, it isn't going to be steamrolling over those other projects any time soon.
Subscription models are very favorable to long-term software development studios. It provides them with a recurring source of revenue that can be depended on. They don't get paid in fits and spurts, and can instead rely on a steady stream of income. When development is a constant ongoing process, this payment method is a good fit.
if you can't come up with 240 dollars a year I dunno how you can afford to eat so for sure doing something wrong, I can go metal detector a tourist beach in the summer and come up with more than 240 dollars.
although i'm not sure ill be jumping on the unreal 4 bandwagon quite yet, while I will eventually, I think its very well priced and a great deal for what you get.
It just crushes Unity at this point, for this class of game. Hell, it crushes Unity for if you want to make any 3D game..
I would probably use Unity only if I was about to make 2D game.
Does that mean that I don't have to subscribe (pay monthly) until when I sell games? (meaning it is essentially a trial version for free until I use for commercial use? [giving me the use of their engine for creative exploration as apposed to merchandising use?]
Yes but you still need to pay 19 dollars upfront to be able to download the engine. I believe you also need to be subscribed to access the source code too.
Like others said if your a serious developer chances are you will be wanting new updates as they become available, so staying subscribed is probably smart in that area.
Bollocks. We had one short preview of Unity 5. What you wrote isn't based on facts. Both will probably be great softwares. Unity will probably still stay more friendly for developers.
Think twice before you grace us with what you think are undeniable truths.
I wonder if they're planning on making an asset store-like community for UE4 like unity has.
They have something in the hub application called the Marketplace, with some example content listed as being "free", so I feel pretty sure that they are.
Unity has its charm especially with the Unity 5 release, if you were making a 2d game id recommend gamemaker studio by yoyo games tbh, a lot of popular 2d games have come out of that, like hotline miami and gunpoint.
Game Engines are all just different horses for courses largely, I would never disparage one when they have all come along so far in favour of another.
That's a new forum. The old forums are still intact...
Nah. I just say from what I have used over past year
Blueprints is absolute new quality in game prototyping.
I'm probably biased, but I nevern could fully undestrand Unity and scripting for it. API wasn't clear, drag&drop script to use them was not that use friednly as some people claim.
Actually I found using C++ in UE4 easier than using C# in Unity 0_o.
You can do whatever, but you can't redistribute UE4 code outside of Epic repositories. I'm not sure about your own code.
And what do people think of the lighting so far? Is lightmapping better? And HDRI support? I think they dropped the svogi, so I'm assuming anything that looks well lit is using lightmapping. Wasn't too impressed with the rendering in a lot of the videos I've seen, but what do people who've used it think? The editor looks great.
Since I can tell everything I will say, tune your expectation down.
Yes lighting is miles better than it was in UE3. Mainly to new default shader setup.
There is far less seem with baking.
But there is the issue. Rendering engine didn't progressed at all over past year. We are still stuck with light maps. There is no good solution for dynamic shadows LODing, there is no any kind of dynamic GI.
Bakes still take lots of time. Bare you can work during bake, but when you work on lighting.. Well can you as well as read book.
I really do hope we will get dynamic gi solution. As the ancient lighting workflow is really setting engine back. Everything is so quick and fast to work with. And then you hit that lighting build button and you feel like are 7 years back in time...
Question: Can we port over UDK packages? is it possible to upgrade a project form udk to UE4?
No. UE4 uses compeltly new packaing system that is more friednly for versioning systems. Each assets is now individually packed.
CryEngine
+Dynamic Lighting
+Nice materials presets.
-everything else.
Unreal Engine 4:
-Lightmass and static lighting.
-/+ you still have to do bit of tweaking to make good materials. It's plus and minus, because you can get more unique results, just by creating custom material.
+everything else
That's how I feel anyway.
Maybe I'm getting my hopes up, but does that mean you can continue to work on things like materials while UDK lightbakes in the background? Because that would be fantastic.
I understand why they kept lightmapping in, the performance gains are still pretty substantial albeit with diminishing returns as the years go by. You just have to be really strategic with when/how you work on lighting. If they were going to improve Lightmass, I'd like to see the ability to bake just a region of the map rather than the entire thing.
The major changes are probably having a HUGE impact on programmers. Many of them disliked not having full source access and even more wanted C++ support.
The pricing plan doesn't bother me. TB2 is more than worth $85, surely forking over $19 for the freaking UDK once in a while isn't the end of the world.