Ah I see. It wasn't blatant, only hinted at here and there. Most of it was Da Vinci, I think other than that it was mostly just stuff you could read here and there about random characters or the time period as a whole.
The bigger portion of it might not have been in everyone's AC: Brotherhood now that I think about it, it was in "The Da Vinci Disappearance".
Da Vinci gets kidnapped, you wind up meeting his apprentice (who is also heavily implied to be Da Vinci's lover). Ezio winds up figuring it out and is totally cool with it, says they go well together. Later on Ezio invites Da Vinci to the Brotherhood, etc. Wasn't really any big thing made about it.
It's also hinted at a couple times in other places, one time I think da Vinci mentions something about painting girls not being a distraction to him, and nothing really comes of the line.
Additionally a character I'd forgotten about in the original AC,
one of the templars you wind up killing, the one who has that huge feast - he's implied to be gay. There's mention of him being ridiculed for it, but it's never explicitly stated. And for all intents and purposes, he's just another templar.
A lot of it could be easily overlooked by many folks. And that's sort of the point, no need to make a huge thing about someone's orientation. I only just today remembered these things were in the games myself. If it's done in a simple and realistic manner, it doesn't really make a difference.
I've yet to play the additional Da Vinci mission, though I think it's fairly unwarranted for Ubisoft to add such events for an historical figure that, as far as I'm aware, has no evidence to support.
It's one of the issues I have with the series when it comes to trying to portray something historically accurate, yet goes with what's sensational in modern society instead. It's a pet peeve of mine but than again, I'm criticizing a game that's about
templars trying to control the world and ancient astronauts (lol)
, perhaps I should expect such things in a game like that.
All that being said, I think I vaguely? remember the other character you mentioned and could really care less in that instance.
I honestly haven't thought about this subject at all so for me to comment further might be a bit pointless.
I've yet to play the additional Da Vinci mission, though I think it's fairly unwarranted for Ubisoft to add such events for an historical figure that, as far as I'm aware, has no evidence to support.
There's no definitive evidence to prove it so far as I'm aware, but there is historical evidence that points to the strong possibility, obviously no way to know for certain.
Anyway, since we're talking about women in the media and talking about how we need more good examples of their portrayal...pretty sure the Legend of Korra we got a thread about over these past couple days is a darn good example.
The Avatar series was always good about gender equality and that sort of thing, though. Lots of kick ass women characters.
I've yet to play the additional Da Vinci mission, though I think it's fairly unwarranted for Ubisoft to add such events for an historical figure that, as far as I'm aware, has no evidence to support.
I should hope this doesn't change your opinion of the man, but there is a good amount of evidence that supports he was gay.
The only thing that bugs me when it comes to discussions like this is when it is assumed a female character, or a gay character, etc. is a representation of them all. Instead of looking at a role as a character with a certain personality, it is taken as the summation of a writer's thoughts on that race, gender, sexuality.
This is, no doubt, tied directly to the scarcity of examples and hopefully will fix itself as more variety is introduced and certain stereotypes are no longer so prevalent.
I want a future where a character can be a two-dimensional sexual object without it being interpreted that all women are.
I should hope this doesn't change your opinion of the man, but there is a good amount of evidence that supports he was gay.
I don't want to derail the thread so if you have any info on the claimed evidence (I need actual, reputable da Vinci historians, scholars, etc anything less is of no importance to me), shoot me a pm if you feel inclined.
ON TOPIC!!!
I haven't read the entire thread, I haven't watched any of the linked videos either, so excuse me if this has been covered or is even the topic at hand.
Am I the only one who's ok with women being portrayed as house wives who support their husbands? Honestly, there's nothing wrong with that and I'd be super happy to have a wife who willing wants to be the care taker of the house.
From my perspective, it seems like a good amount of society is trying to paint this portrait that it's flat out wrong and damaging to women if, as a woman, you want to continue the traditional role a wife has taken for so many millenia.
The only thing that bugs me when it comes to discussions like this is when it is assumed a female character, or a gay character, etc. is a representation of them all. Instead of looking at a role as a character with a certain personality, it is taken as the summation of a writer's thoughts on that race, gender, sexuality.
This is, no doubt, tied directly to the scarcity of examples and hopefully will fix itself as more variety is introduced and certain stereotypes are no longer so prevalent.
I want a future where a character can be a two-dimensional sexual object without it being interpreted that all women are.
there are gay people i know who don't reference it at all. they act as straight as the straightest of straight people... there are other gay people i know who... well, they act it. hell, there are straight people i know who act gay. it's just who they are, it's part of their personality.
Of course but there is a vital difference between these people and characters in a fiction. You know them. Stories mainly stick to exaggerated personalities and stereotypes because you are forced to engage and notice them, if they are a blank slate or 'normal' their development will probably progress about as slow as somebody you met on the street, speaking of which: If you had nothing but the outward actions and impressions of the people you mentioned should you just be pass them as strangers on the street, what kind of presumptions would you make?
in FFXII, there are two women who are hinted at to be a gay couple. it's never openly stated, but they certainly act it from time to time throughout the game. but it's largely irrelivent to the story, so it's never acted upon. would you say that's a problem?
Of course it's not a problem, it's not required yet at the same time it gives you a little bit more to know about those characters that puts certain actions they perform into context. For all it matters they might not be gay but if after those hints a straight guy walks up to one of them and says, "Hey wanna get it on?" and they reply, "Sure! I like guys after all!" You would surely be confused and feel that characterisation was not at all fleshed out.
you're acting like you're the arbiter of homosexual justice, and that everything you say is right. i get it, you're passionate about the issue. but you're coming accross as a massive sand filled vagina.
I may be replying to this but I don't even know if you were aiming all this at me, whoever it's for you're clearly slinging it too hard at them.
Collectiong those stereotypes and ranting about it is only the half way
making a movie making fun of all of them that actually sales is the second step
As an update, she created a kickstarter to do a specific set of videos on tropes in videogames. She has screamed past the 6,000 dollar goal and is sitting at 40,000 with 5 days to go. I'm really looking forward to them and the curriculum created. The interesting thing, is that she hasn't even made the videos yet, but the level of vitriol spouted on her youtube, kickstarter, and email is beyond ridiculous and proves the point that a closer examination *is* needed.
As some of you may be aware, this project has recently been subject to a coordinated online harassment effort waged by various online video game forums vowing to "take me down". I always expect a certain level of harassment when discussing gender issues online. This time however, it's a more organized and sustained effort than I've experienced before.
The intimidation and harassment effort has included a torrent of misogyny and hate speech on my YouTube video, repeated vandalizing of the Wikipedia page about me, organized efforts to flag my YouTube videos as "terrorism", as well as many threatening messages sent through Twitter, Facebook, Kickstarter, email and my own website. These messages and comments have included everything from the typical sandwich and kitchen "jokes" to threats of violence, death, sexual assault and rape. All that plus an organized attempt to report this project to Kickstarter and get it banned or defunded. Thankfully, Kickstarter has been incredibly supportive in helping me deal with the harassment on their service.
The sad thing is this kind of backlash happens all the time whenever women dare to speak up about gender and video games.
I've archived a very small sample of the extraordinary level of harassment and misogyny at the link below. Be warned, it's extremely vile.
[Major Trigger Warning] http://wp.me/pwSlB-BS
What's most ironic about the harassment is that it's in reaction to a project I haven't even created yet. I haven't had the chance to articulate any of my arguments about video game characters yet. It's very telling that there is this much backlash against the mere idea of this series being made.
Ben, definitely icky, but maybe not a good thing to start an argument over? Nobody has ever doubted that there arent 50 men on youtube willing to say sexist, disgusting shit.
also hahaha that secret jew comment! 'She's a feminist so she must be a SECRET AGENT OF ZION.' adorable kkk sons of bitches.
I was updating that videos specifically talking about tropes in videogames is coming down the pipe. (and kickstarter projects seem to be all the rage these days). Topical and not deserving a new thread.
It was more than 50, it was in the thousands. Is this the argument "oh it's just a few bad apples"? Because there is a second part to that phrase, it's "a few bad apples, ruin the bunch" and the idea is that you have to remove the bad apples so they don't ruin the other apples. The mold and decay of the bad apples will actually spread to the others. Were it a few people saying this, and educated people in tandem lept to denounce it, you'd have a point, but we can see from this very thread that plenty of actual game developers don't think there is a problem within games on the treatment and portrayal of women (or that it's exactly as bad for men and women both, which is also incorrect).
I'm looking forward to if she includes the Hitman Absolution demo in her deconstruction, because I would bet cash money that many of the same people expressing joy and titillation at the hitman trailer are the same ones making hateful comments on her video for the kickstarter.
that "removing bad apples" part sounds quite creepy when you're talking about people. it generates all kinds of connotations. so what do you actually mean by that?
also, -denounce it-? the freaking youtube comments? retards will always be present in the internet and denouncing what they write seems like most unproductive way to spend time ever. no matter at whom their comments are directed.
btw, it's pretty insulting to say that not seeing portrayal of women in games as a huge problem and writing hateful sexist comments is the same kind of thing.
btw, it's pretty insulting to say that not seeing portrayal of women in games as a huge problem and writing hateful sexist comments is the same kind of thing.
It's the exact same culture permitting the belief that it's okay to talk like that.
I think you may misunderstand... It isnt so much that tolerating or ignoring mild sexism is a bad thing, persay, it's that this is a call to arms. It's worse than your realize, and it's your (and my) duty as a decent, respectable person to make a stand. Educate people! Teach people it's not okay!
I'm looking forward to if she includes the Hitman Absolution demo in her deconstruction, because I would bet cash money that many of the same people expressing joy and titillation at the hitman trailer are the same ones making hateful comments on her video for the kickstarter.
I really doubt these people are in any way serious. Judging by how happily they are spouting memes, I would guess this is just another raid. Some of them might actually believe it, but most of them are just parroting one another to get some sort of a reaction.
complaining on youbute attracts trolls, its been that way ever since the internet was invented.
but stereotypes and tropes are an evolutionary feature of the human brain, it follows the same logic as optical illusions and speaking louder when someone doesnt understand you. like the fixed function set on a gpu. it isnt changable, and it takes up alot of brain capacity to not use it.
so i doubt that there will be any change to that ever, except if everyone gets brainwashed, or have parts of the brain destroyed so that the usual way of thinking is impossible.
that "removing bad apples" part sounds quite creepy when you're talking about people. it generates all kinds of connotations. so what do you actually mean by that?
If one were to believe the concept of "oh it's just a few bad apples" when talking about these youtube comments (despite being in the thousands) the parallel would be this.
Bad apples = people with hateful/derogatory attitudes toward all women
good apples = people with neutral or unformed attitudes toward women.
A few bad apples, ruins the bunch = young people who haven't fully formed their opinion on genders being in an environment that constantly belittles women, makes rape jokes, implies women are only good for sex or any other negative attitude, can rub off an inform the attitudes of those around them.
What I mean = When you hear someone say something like this in person, or in a game, or on a youtube video or blog post you are actively engaged in, say "that's a very poor attitude toward women, depiction of a woman, etc" anything that would let one of the "good apples" realize that what the "bad apple" says/believes isn't ubiquitous.
Did you think I meant killing them? or putting them in cages? Not allowing bigotry or hate to go unchallenged is a pretty standard method for changing cultural norms. It goes right along with the phrase, "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".
I feel compelled to react to one particular theme: That men are poorly represented in gaming too. They are. Men in games are often represented as huge, muscled heroes, essentially weapons of war with biceps, gruff and focused and all-powerful. It’s not an accurate representation of men at large, indeed not. Because it’s a power fantasy. It’s aspirational (as much as very many men may have no desires to be anything like that). It’s about being big, and strong, and in control. Oh boo hoo. Yes, it is daft, and cliched, and tiresome. But to compare it to the default representation of women in games – either huge-titted, scantily clad sexual fantasies, or helpless, pathetic and weak – is deeply erroneous. And yes, of course there are exceptions to both, although I can immediately think of vastly more exceptions for the better presentation of men than I can women.
...
This is not preaching to the choir (not least because RPS is read by a great deal of people, not just the regular community), but instead an attempt to boldly state just how serious a mess we’re in as a culture. The prevalence of homophobia and misogyny in the gaming world is on a scale so large we like to dismiss it. “But we don’t do that.” “That’s just forum X, though.” That’s not good enough. We need to own this – to acknowledge that as gamers this is our community, no matter how far we may wish to distance from it, and no matter how much we may not take part in it.
There's also the big importance in people changing much more so than the games, we'll always be able to find tropes in games, and looking hard enough we'll find it in properly good stuff, such as the x-files or certain comic books.
Take game of thrones for example, without the tropes, sexualization, women using their bodies or females in lesser or expected positions it wouldn't be as good as it is, and I've seen it being attacked before for being full of them and not so equal.
Not every character can be Brienne, and yes, Dana Scully is still a good character.
I think what Sarkeesian does is a good thing, and all those attacking her are the scum of our race, but I still have quite a bunch of points I disagree with when it comes to her criticism of female characters.
I think what Sarkeesian does is a good thing, and all those attacking her are the scum of our race, but I still have quite a bunch of points I disagree with when it comes to her criticism of female characters.
Hey, definitely, me too. I'm gonna keep drawing half naked girls, and stuff, because i fundamentally disagree about where sexualization becomes objectification. Unfortunately, it's going to continue to be hard to discuss this stuff and grow as a community as long as people are still denying that it exists.
I've not read the entire thread, but this is the woman who claimed that 'all I want for Christmas is You', when sung by a woman denotes that women are only validated by having a man, and when by a man, it's clearly a stalker. Nothing to do with a specific partner expressing desire for a specific partner. That would be too obvious. Oh, and that song Loesser sung with his wife at a private party back in the 40s? That's the 'Christmas Date Rape' song.
I dislike her, because she has a very clear misandrist agenda. She pulls apart anything she can find in popular media to make some point about mysogeny, but almost entirely excludes any evidence or examples of the contrary. If I wanted to pick an example of a 'feminazi' (a self-prescribed 'feminist' who only ever focuses on inequality geared towards women, or promotes inequality in the opposite direction), she's a pretty good one to choose from.
Personally, I have a penchant dislike for anyone who goes out of their way to actively describe themselves as a feminist in this day an dage anyway. It implies you only care about equality across the gender divide (which is theoretically impossible anyway), when there are far greater divides across race, culture and especially financial background.
She attracts all the trolls she does because she spends most of her waking hours trying to piss in everyone else's cornflakes.
Didn't she outright say she hated men to the n'th degree at one point? That's what makes cringe about her, she's a Power-Seeker, giving Feminists that actually fight for Women's right a bad name.
Did you think I meant killing them? or putting them in cages? Not allowing bigotry or hate to go unchallenged is a pretty standard method for changing cultural norms. It goes right along with the phrase, "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".
We live in a society in which Pedophilia is forgiven because 'daddy touched him, so he does the same', yet forbid someone is racist, the first question one asks is not 'How/Why are they racist', but 'Lets push them outside of society even more and not teach them anything'.
Example, a friend of mine is really sexist, and he is because his Father works overseas, so he's barely home, and between his Mother and Sister, the guy doesn't have much 'male' bonding going on, add to the fact that his Mother is old-school strict, and you honestly can't act surprised if a guy internally wants to lash out against something so unbalanced in his life.
This is the reason why sexist things still exist, it's because the higher-horse-riding-white-knights, instead of tackling the issue and teaching people that an individual must be judged as an individual, not an idea, is what creates this issues. It's even more ironic when people themselves who have been pushed out act the same way...
Frankly, until people realize this, they can all go and screw themselves on pole.
giving Feminists that actually fight for Women's right a bad name.
This is kind of the point though. It's not the 1920s anymore, we don't need people to "fight for Women's rights" (at least in our own countries) any more. Surely a century down the line we should be more worried about equality for everyone.
I wouldn't be surprised if she pretty much came out with an 'I hate men' rant though, she does seem somewhat inclined that way. I really resent that she made something like $75,000 on kickstarter for her 'tropes in videogames documentary' campaign.
I really like RPS and their writing and sense when it comes to writing. I tend to relate to their writing and what it is that they are saying.
Now... on this matter. I feel Education is key... how? I am not really sure, since we do have education... and having it in such a general way might not permit everyone to get what it is that is important. In this case being sensible about how to express yourself, and express your point of view towards other people.
I guess i don't even do it sometimes, where i want to be sensible. But then, the after thoughts dictate to me that i might have handled that a little better, or that there is a whole lot of improvement that i can do.
I guess its uncalled for to get that kind of threats and reactions. I think that the extreme position is kinda disturbing, on any matter as a matter of fact. I try to live a balanced life, and in my 29 years i realize that the extremes do bring unbalance, and with it quarrels, or harshness, or submission. I think we should be able to express our opinions, but in doing so we might want to be sensitive to the other person, and reflecting on what it is that you can do or you are tying to achieve by sharing that.
Hmm... i wonder if i make sense now.
RPS rounds it up pretty well... they look at both sides and he brings some interesting questions to the table.
This is kind of the point though. It's not the 1920s anymore, we don't need people to "fight for Women's rights" (at least in our own countries) any more.
And why is that? We still have a wage gap, an incredibly lopsided gender representation in government, upper management in the private sector, and gender-based discrimination in healthcare. These are demonstrable facts. The sole area where gender equality is taken care of since the 20s is women voting.
And Ace-Angel, you are going to have to provide a link to the blog, or the minute marker of a youtube where she says "I hate men" because that's quite the claim to make.
We still have a wage gap, an incredibly lopsided gender representation in government, upper management in the private sector
These are not issues of Women's rights. Women have a right to equal pay (where applicable, since many of us determine our own salaries through negotiation), a right to participate in government and a right to work in the private sector in any field and position they are suitable for. There are also plenty of reasonable arguments as to why this may be the case outside of deliberate discrimination. Have you ever considered that it may be the case that there is a strong cultural bias that is a precursor to this.
More women wear dresses than men - but this is also not indicative of discrimination, it is simply a statistic. The underlying causes are cultural to any casual observer.
The argument that there is a wage gap because of gender discrimination is demonstrably fallacious, as is the proportion of men and women found in upper management (have you thought that this is what causes the wage gap in the first place?). From a business sense, if this pay discrimination really exists, then surely we'd be promoting more women into the higher paying positions as a means of keeping costs lower? It could be considered more likely that cultural bias sees a tendency for women to stray away from business roles in favour of others.
More women go into teaching or nursing than men. Does this mean the education or healthcare industries are heavily biased towards hiring women? It's easy to say that and use the statistics as a weapon, but anyone who wants to actually reason it would easily find evidence to the contrary (do more men fail to find employmeny in these fields than women? - the answer FYI, is no).
Women can and alreayd do all of these things, many just choose not to. This is not indicative of gender discrimination, nor is it a lack of rights. It's a potential lack of interest, and culturally this is already shifting anyway.
The sole area where gender equality is taken care of since the 20s is women voting.
It really isn't. Suffrage was only the beginning of the modern Women's Rights movement, and a lot has changed since then. The right to vote has given the influence that allows a woman legal access to equality in property, healthcare, employment and many other areas.
I don't think it's terribly controversial to note that women, from a young age, are required to consider the reality of the opposite gender's consciousness in a way that men aren't. This isn't to say that women don't often misunderstand, mistreat, and stereotype men, both in literature and in life.
But on a basic level, functioning in society requires that women register that men are fully conscious; it is not really possible for a woman to throw up her hands and write men off as eternally unknowable space aliens and even if she says she has, she cannot really behave as though she has.
Every element of her life from reading books about boys and men to writing papers about the motivations of male characters to being attentive to her own safety to navigating most any institutional or professional or economic sphere demands an ironclad familiarity with, and belief in, the idea that men really are fully human entities. And no matter how many men come to the same conclusions about women, the structure of society simply does not demand so strenuously that they do so.
If you didn't really deep down believe that women were, in general, exactly as conscious as you, you could probably still get by in life. You could probably still get a book deal. You could probably still get elected to office.
This discrepancy plays out in fiction, where it fuels a literary cycle which is both a cause and a consequence of the broader issue. Girls, alongside the variety of other ways in which they're confronting the reality of male consciousness, read and write papers about Huck and then Holden and then Jake Barnes. In doing so, they learn that male minds, like female minds, are complicated and weird and worthy of attention.
Adult female readers then will often voluntarily read books by and about both men and women, whereas male readers will overwhelmingly, though of course not exclusively, read books by and about men. And female writers will often also voluntarily write books populated by both men and women. (If they don't, they will have to be ever-mindful of the possibility of being understood as writers of "women's fiction" meaning fiction for women only.)
Male writers will have the latitude to do whatever they want: many will write books about both men and women, but they can excise women entirely from their fictional universes, if they want to, without ever marginalizing their books. And all of this results, of course, in a re-enforcement of the initial problem: the production of another realm where taking women seriously as consciousnesses, narrators, characters is optional.
It's interesting. I'm inclined to both agree and disagree. One part of the issues stems from a lack of historical female authors; most of the 'classics' you are exposed to when you are younger will be written overwhelmingly by men for various reasons (education and cultural perception being the most important); and a large part of the literature that is held in highest regard comes from a perspective gained from someone of that status. Jane Austen is a good example of this; being one of the few early female authors, her work is largely written from a female perspective with a similar social status to her own.
Looking at my bookshelf, it is indeed largely written by men - but then I have an interest in older speculative fiction; a genre in which I have never heard of any female authors. Other genres seem to have a healthy mix of genders. The characters are not really distinctively male dominated at all, however, so there I will have to disagree.
Okay tropes or not, the idea of this project being hosted and financed on kickstarter really confuses me - just as much as the recent game projects out there.
Your support will go towards production costs, equipment, games and downloadable content.
Basically she says she needs the money to buy games, video editing software, and some better cameras. Fair enough, 6K seems like a fitting budget to me. (even tho one could argue that her current video equipement is just fine for her to carry her point accross, and that she sure could find someone willing to let her borrow games for the duration of her project )
But now that she is getting 100K in pledge, isn't it a huge problem ? Does that mean that she is making 94K of pure benefits ? Judging from the pledge rewards she lists I feel like she is stuck in a weird corner now and that might actually play against the integrity of her project as a whole.
I am quite certain that she was not planning to make money from this and just wanted to spread her ideas (valid or not! ). As a matter of fact I am surprised to *not* see a mention of her giving the benefit money to some sort of charity.
Very odd situation. Kickstarter really seem to be more suited to projects involving physical production of some sort of device rather than virtual stuff like a game or a video series. I feel like this is going to burst very soon.
Very odd situation. Kickstarter really seem to be more suited to projects involving physical production of some sort of device rather than virtual stuff like a game or a video series. I feel like this is going to burst very soon.
People do pay for rewards here too, some involve HD versions of the videos, but yes, I agree that she should mention any plans on what she intends to do with the extra cash, which she could potentially do what she wants with, but also use to fund another projects on the same subject.
As a matter of fact I am surprised to *not* see a mention of her giving the benefit money to some sort of charity.
Kickstarter's terms and conditions expressly forbid the money raised being given to charitable causes. I can't see where the money can really go, except into her own pocket.
Maybe it's just me, but while I agree that there's a problem here, I think Sarkeesian's solution is actually degrading towards women. You'd think someone could make a difference with $120,000, instead of complaining how people don't make a difference. It's as if the best women can do is make a YouTube video explaining men why they need to do better.
When Christine the Pizan disliked how male-centered books were in 1405, she wrote a book about women. When Anita Sarkeesian dislikes how male-centered games are in 2012, she complains that men need to write better women. It seems the Middle Ages believed more in the capability of women as creators than today's feminists do. The Middle Ages.
Okay tropes or not, the idea of this project being hosted and financed on kickstarter really confuses me - just as much as the recent game projects out there.
What´s so odd is that you weren't saying this same thing in the thread for Tim Schaffer's overfunded kickstarter. It´s almost like a double standard.
She very clearly has made 5 updates on stretch goals and what the extra money will go to. She is not in control of people giving, and as far as I know, there is no way to 'close' a kickstarter after a certain amount of money. Clearly the people who have donated feel her work and what she wants to do has value. Who are you to say what it's worth when other people are voluntarily funding it?
The extra money is going to extra videos, curriculum that teachers can use (and her work has already been used in major universities across the world, she's hardly "just" a vlogger) and a permanent improvement in production values for all future videos. It's all spelled out, had you actually been curious what the additional money were going to.
It's very telling that this is one of the few kickstarters that has had so many sour grape posts about being overfunded, when virtually zero of the (coincidentally? male led) projects that have gone way past the funding goal have had the same.
As a matter of fact I have been voicing and discussing that concern for a while now, (offline and online) about that one project and the Double Fine one too, so no, no double standards here. It actually worries me beyond just the "what if" - as I feel like this could be potentially damaging for some parties if it eventually bursts.
This has nothing to do with agreeing or not with what she has to say, it's more of an overall side question. And yeah the fact that KS can allows a budget to go that high over the planned amount makes me feel like KS is not that appropriate to non-physical projects.
pardon the intrusion? ( been a reader here but have nothing to pst until this thread , sorry )
did anyone really watch the vid that was posted by poopinmymouth? the ted talk? did you watch it poopinmymouth ?
because, what i got from watching was, how she was hoping that women, would take her own stands ( like anita did, maybe ? ) but in more elegant way, more positive ways, like the part of the story about the girl who said she should keep her hands up ( it's shows how to correct things, and in beautiful way ) and then again the part where she was stating that less women was negotiating salary ( forgot how many precent exactly she mentioned , my connections was too slow to buffer it again, sorry )
all the fact she was stated there, and you only cut the part where she said about the Heidy and Howard study ( yes, this i remember correctly, it's not helen as you mentioned )
and even in that study, the respondent didn't say Heidy was a "bitch", as i recall, they say it's going to be hard working with this women, yes, this is a wrong stereotype, i agree completely! and thus, to counter this, is to be like how Sherryl ( is this the right spelling? ) promote equality towards the stereotype among the people, by pushing it from the inside, the problem is already so big, that it was even embedded deep in the women's part as thay tend to avoid making mistakes less than a man ( was stated in the vid )
and therefore, while also educating the counterpart sex,the female also need to change their attitude, and i would totally support if they go through the peacefull attemot like Sherryl, i personally don't like screamings, yelling, insulting etc, so i prefer the peace way, and i would be happy to share this Sherryl vids everywhere, but not this anita vid, sorry, not my taste of struggle, i'm in opposition if you're going to fix the problem, by becoming a problem.
and that's me musterred my strength to post here, and i hope this post did not become another flame starter.
PS : where i live, women have been trying to get their equal right and some get it but some don't, it ussually involves the religion they were in, as in here, it was a kinda major problem, first the stereotype, traditions, and religion, how bad can it be?
What´s so odd is that you weren't saying this same thing in the thread for Tim Schaffer's overfunded kickstarter. It´s almost like a double standard.
Well I guess she could hire weta and greenscreen the shit out of her background with some truly awesome cgi!
The point was that she really doesn't anything that she can put all that money in, perhaps marketing and such, but she doesn't do enough to write about it.
Tim schafers kickstarter is not overfunded, all the money is going into the project, games in that early progress are extremely extendable.
I do believe she'll do something good with the extra money, as I've never believed she doesn't believe in her cause strongly, just that I disagree with some of it.
I truly hope for a world where we can treat eachother equally and still have different views of eachother, equality while still being different, but what does she hope for in characters in games and movies?
More than anything I want to live in a world where people don't treat other people like shit, but I'm not sure if I want to live in a world without bayonetta, cortana, or fairy-tale princesses. Is it wrong for a female to have the classical girlish dream or like girlish things, or is this a trait of the society?
The point was that she really doesn't anything that she can put all that money in, perhaps marketing and such, but she doesn't do enough to write about it.
Tim schafers kickstarter is not overfunded, all the money is going into the project, games in that early progress are extremely extendable.
Is it wrong for a female to have the classical girlish dream or like girlish things, or is this a trait of the society?
Actually there are lots of things she could do. She probably has to eat and live in a bed like the rest of us, so the extra money could just fund her series much longer than the original 6,000 were without needing another job to pay the bills. Maybe traveling to schools or countries without the budget to bring her themselves. The point is that when Tim's was overfunded (and it was, I was talking about going over the goal) none of us have any problem thinking of all the ways the money could be used in a game studio on a game production. I can promise you that producing videos does cost money. These aren't grainy webcam rants, they are professionally produced, and film production does cost money.
When someone logged into her kickstarter page and saw it at 60,000 USD, if they didn't think she needed any more, they wouldn't have donated, so clearly those who donated after all goals were met felt there was more she could do with extra dollars. I don't doubt for a second she'll think of something related to the kickstarter theme, and I'm eager to see what it is.
It's funny how penny-arcade can make a living from webcomics, or some of us game developers have no qualms working for a studio that charges money for name changes or faction changes or an auction house (making millions in the process) but when a girl profits off her intellectual property, sound the alarms!
Also, no there is nothing wrong with a girl (or a boy) wanting a fairy tale princess wedding and living at home pregnant and cooking. If that's what someone wants for themselves, more power to them. The idea is to make it so that no one is *forced* into that, or devalued/insulted if they deviate from that as their own goals. Here we have a woman making videos about a legitimate area of study taught in universities all over the world, doing it in a well researched fashion and using high production values, and even creating free curriculum afterwards, and as soon as she is able to make a living off of it, she's attacked. Not just by youtube or wikipedia trolls, but the commenters on Kotaku, the Escapist, and here on polycount.
Actually there are lots of things she could do. She probably has to eat and live in a bed like the rest of us, so the extra money could just fund her series much longer than the original 6,000 were without needing another job to pay the bills. Maybe traveling to schools or countries without the budget to bring her themselves. The point is that when Tim's was overfunded (and it was, I was talking about going over the goal) none of us have any problem thinking of all the ways the money could be used in a game studio on a game production. I can promise you that producing videos does cost money. These aren't grainy webcam rants, they are professionally produced, and film production does cost money.
When someone logged into her kickstarter page and saw it at 60,000 USD, if they didn't think she needed any more, they wouldn't have donated, so clearly those who donated after all goals were met felt there was more she could do with extra dollars. I don't doubt for a second she'll think of something related to the kickstarter theme, and I'm eager to see what it is.
You should've seen the kotaku response when the star-command guys made their stats official, they raged at the "abuse" of the money, which clearly wasn't abuse, people just weren't aware of where the money was going.
But again, I'm counting her salary as being a part of any future or current product, I'm fine with that, and I don't even think anyone has a problem with her doing whatever she wants with it.
And as I've said, I'm guessing it'll all go towards her future work with in the same area.
It's funny how penny-arcade can make a living from webcomics, or some of us game developers have no qualms working for a studio that charges money for name changes or faction changes or an auction house (making millions in the process) but when a girl profits off her intellectual property, sound the alarms!
Because profiting from important issues have always been a big no-no, that goes for any kind of thing where you are fighting for the greater good, but again: living off it and continuing the work does not equal profiting, profiting would be her sitting on her ass and enjoying passive life without further work.
Now she has the money to further the stuff she does.
Also, no there is nothing wrong with a girl (or a boy) wanting a fairy tale princess wedding and living at home pregnant and cooking. If that's what someone wants for themselves, more power to them. The idea is to make it so that no one is *forced* into that, or devalued/insulted if they deviate from that as their own goals. Here we have a woman making videos about a legitimate area of study taught in universities all over the world, doing it in a well researched fashion and using high production values, and even creating free curriculum afterwards, and as soon as she is able to make a living off of it, she's attacked. Not just by youtube or wikipedia trolls, but the commenters on Kotaku, the Escapist, and here on polycount.
They are, and they empower her even further, in a way that I feel my own criticism gets buried, but I guess that's poetic justice in a way.
Any point they might've wanted to get across gets smeared in shit by the foul tactic they're going with, and smears everyone else that might've had that point too, in short: It's complicated.
She has a ton of good points, and a vast amount of people really need to change for the better, but she still has a bunch of less fantastic points that I wish wouldn't have been there, she'll have entire videos on subjects that are not really a part of the cause but rather just an occurance of the situation, such as the women in the freezer or mystical pregnancies.
Shit ton of text to read through (which I'm not going to read) but I'm really confused as to what this chicks plan is.
Presumably she has no game development experience and she wants to make a game (as if making a shitty game isn't hard enough) that some how empowers women (what ever that means) all because she doesn't like how games showcase women and perhaps men as well?
K... then what? Honestly, it just seems like there's this plan with no end goal for it. She basically asks for free money so she could make a game she wants to make.
I'm not going to stop her, anyone can do that and have done exactly that, but don't act like it's for anything other than to push your own ideals on other people.
Really, this entire thing (the whole "problem" with current tropes) seems pointless. Some people like using tropes, deal with it.
also, lol at the comic. Portraying this gal as some kind of super hero? lolk.
Replies
Not sure why you bother asking the question if you're not going to elaborate.
I don't recall any of the stuff in AC2 I quoted from your post (thought it would be pretty obvious, apologies.)
The bigger portion of it might not have been in everyone's AC: Brotherhood now that I think about it, it was in "The Da Vinci Disappearance".
Additionally a character I'd forgotten about in the original AC,
A lot of it could be easily overlooked by many folks. And that's sort of the point, no need to make a huge thing about someone's orientation. I only just today remembered these things were in the games myself. If it's done in a simple and realistic manner, it doesn't really make a difference.
It's one of the issues I have with the series when it comes to trying to portray something historically accurate, yet goes with what's sensational in modern society instead. It's a pet peeve of mine but than again, I'm criticizing a game that's about
All that being said, I think I vaguely? remember the other character you mentioned and could really care less in that instance.
I honestly haven't thought about this subject at all so for me to comment further might be a bit pointless.
There's no definitive evidence to prove it so far as I'm aware, but there is historical evidence that points to the strong possibility, obviously no way to know for certain.
Anyway, since we're talking about women in the media and talking about how we need more good examples of their portrayal...pretty sure the Legend of Korra we got a thread about over these past couple days is a darn good example.
The Avatar series was always good about gender equality and that sort of thing, though. Lots of kick ass women characters.
Thanks, pior :P
I should hope this doesn't change your opinion of the man, but there is a good amount of evidence that supports he was gay.
The only thing that bugs me when it comes to discussions like this is when it is assumed a female character, or a gay character, etc. is a representation of them all. Instead of looking at a role as a character with a certain personality, it is taken as the summation of a writer's thoughts on that race, gender, sexuality.
This is, no doubt, tied directly to the scarcity of examples and hopefully will fix itself as more variety is introduced and certain stereotypes are no longer so prevalent.
I want a future where a character can be a two-dimensional sexual object without it being interpreted that all women are.
I don't want to derail the thread so if you have any info on the claimed evidence (I need actual, reputable da Vinci historians, scholars, etc anything less is of no importance to me), shoot me a pm if you feel inclined.
ON TOPIC!!!
I haven't read the entire thread, I haven't watched any of the linked videos either, so excuse me if this has been covered or is even the topic at hand.
Am I the only one who's ok with women being portrayed as house wives who support their husbands? Honestly, there's nothing wrong with that and I'd be super happy to have a wife who willing wants to be the care taker of the house.
From my perspective, it seems like a good amount of society is trying to paint this portrait that it's flat out wrong and damaging to women if, as a woman, you want to continue the traditional role a wife has taken for so many millenia.
more on topic:
I can agree with that, brosef.
Of course but there is a vital difference between these people and characters in a fiction. You know them. Stories mainly stick to exaggerated personalities and stereotypes because you are forced to engage and notice them, if they are a blank slate or 'normal' their development will probably progress about as slow as somebody you met on the street, speaking of which: If you had nothing but the outward actions and impressions of the people you mentioned should you just be pass them as strangers on the street, what kind of presumptions would you make?
Of course it's not a problem, it's not required yet at the same time it gives you a little bit more to know about those characters that puts certain actions they perform into context. For all it matters they might not be gay but if after those hints a straight guy walks up to one of them and says, "Hey wanna get it on?" and they reply, "Sure! I like guys after all!" You would surely be confused and feel that characterisation was not at all fleshed out.
I may be replying to this but I don't even know if you were aiming all this at me, whoever it's for you're clearly slinging it too hard at them.
making a movie making fun of all of them that actually sales is the second step
The kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games?ref=card
also hahaha that secret jew comment! 'She's a feminist so she must be a SECRET AGENT OF ZION.' adorable kkk sons of bitches.
It was more than 50, it was in the thousands. Is this the argument "oh it's just a few bad apples"? Because there is a second part to that phrase, it's "a few bad apples, ruin the bunch" and the idea is that you have to remove the bad apples so they don't ruin the other apples. The mold and decay of the bad apples will actually spread to the others. Were it a few people saying this, and educated people in tandem lept to denounce it, you'd have a point, but we can see from this very thread that plenty of actual game developers don't think there is a problem within games on the treatment and portrayal of women (or that it's exactly as bad for men and women both, which is also incorrect).
I'm looking forward to if she includes the Hitman Absolution demo in her deconstruction, because I would bet cash money that many of the same people expressing joy and titillation at the hitman trailer are the same ones making hateful comments on her video for the kickstarter.
also, -denounce it-? the freaking youtube comments? retards will always be present in the internet and denouncing what they write seems like most unproductive way to spend time ever. no matter at whom their comments are directed.
btw, it's pretty insulting to say that not seeing portrayal of women in games as a huge problem and writing hateful sexist comments is the same kind of thing.
It's the exact same culture permitting the belief that it's okay to talk like that.
I think you may misunderstand... It isnt so much that tolerating or ignoring mild sexism is a bad thing, persay, it's that this is a call to arms. It's worse than your realize, and it's your (and my) duty as a decent, respectable person to make a stand. Educate people! Teach people it's not okay!
I really doubt these people are in any way serious. Judging by how happily they are spouting memes, I would guess this is just another raid. Some of them might actually believe it, but most of them are just parroting one another to get some sort of a reaction.
but stereotypes and tropes are an evolutionary feature of the human brain, it follows the same logic as optical illusions and speaking louder when someone doesnt understand you. like the fixed function set on a gpu. it isnt changable, and it takes up alot of brain capacity to not use it.
so i doubt that there will be any change to that ever, except if everyone gets brainwashed, or have parts of the brain destroyed so that the usual way of thinking is impossible.
If one were to believe the concept of "oh it's just a few bad apples" when talking about these youtube comments (despite being in the thousands) the parallel would be this.
Bad apples = people with hateful/derogatory attitudes toward all women
good apples = people with neutral or unformed attitudes toward women.
A few bad apples, ruins the bunch = young people who haven't fully formed their opinion on genders being in an environment that constantly belittles women, makes rape jokes, implies women are only good for sex or any other negative attitude, can rub off an inform the attitudes of those around them.
What I mean = When you hear someone say something like this in person, or in a game, or on a youtube video or blog post you are actively engaged in, say "that's a very poor attitude toward women, depiction of a woman, etc" anything that would let one of the "good apples" realize that what the "bad apple" says/believes isn't ubiquitous.
Did you think I meant killing them? or putting them in cages? Not allowing bigotry or hate to go unchallenged is a pretty standard method for changing cultural norms. It goes right along with the phrase, "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".
http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/06/harassment-and-misogyny-via-wikipedia/
John walker writes an excellent article.
Take game of thrones for example, without the tropes, sexualization, women using their bodies or females in lesser or expected positions it wouldn't be as good as it is, and I've seen it being attacked before for being full of them and not so equal.
Not every character can be Brienne, and yes, Dana Scully is still a good character.
I think what Sarkeesian does is a good thing, and all those attacking her are the scum of our race, but I still have quite a bunch of points I disagree with when it comes to her criticism of female characters.
Hey, definitely, me too. I'm gonna keep drawing half naked girls, and stuff, because i fundamentally disagree about where sexualization becomes objectification. Unfortunately, it's going to continue to be hard to discuss this stuff and grow as a community as long as people are still denying that it exists.
I dislike her, because she has a very clear misandrist agenda. She pulls apart anything she can find in popular media to make some point about mysogeny, but almost entirely excludes any evidence or examples of the contrary. If I wanted to pick an example of a 'feminazi' (a self-prescribed 'feminist' who only ever focuses on inequality geared towards women, or promotes inequality in the opposite direction), she's a pretty good one to choose from.
Personally, I have a penchant dislike for anyone who goes out of their way to actively describe themselves as a feminist in this day an dage anyway. It implies you only care about equality across the gender divide (which is theoretically impossible anyway), when there are far greater divides across race, culture and especially financial background.
She attracts all the trolls she does because she spends most of her waking hours trying to piss in everyone else's cornflakes.
We live in a society in which Pedophilia is forgiven because 'daddy touched him, so he does the same', yet forbid someone is racist, the first question one asks is not 'How/Why are they racist', but 'Lets push them outside of society even more and not teach them anything'.
Example, a friend of mine is really sexist, and he is because his Father works overseas, so he's barely home, and between his Mother and Sister, the guy doesn't have much 'male' bonding going on, add to the fact that his Mother is old-school strict, and you honestly can't act surprised if a guy internally wants to lash out against something so unbalanced in his life.
This is the reason why sexist things still exist, it's because the higher-horse-riding-white-knights, instead of tackling the issue and teaching people that an individual must be judged as an individual, not an idea, is what creates this issues. It's even more ironic when people themselves who have been pushed out act the same way...
Frankly, until people realize this, they can all go and screw themselves on pole.
This is kind of the point though. It's not the 1920s anymore, we don't need people to "fight for Women's rights" (at least in our own countries) any more. Surely a century down the line we should be more worried about equality for everyone.
I wouldn't be surprised if she pretty much came out with an 'I hate men' rant though, she does seem somewhat inclined that way. I really resent that she made something like $75,000 on kickstarter for her 'tropes in videogames documentary' campaign.
I really like RPS and their writing and sense when it comes to writing. I tend to relate to their writing and what it is that they are saying.
Now... on this matter. I feel Education is key... how? I am not really sure, since we do have education... and having it in such a general way might not permit everyone to get what it is that is important. In this case being sensible about how to express yourself, and express your point of view towards other people.
I guess i don't even do it sometimes, where i want to be sensible. But then, the after thoughts dictate to me that i might have handled that a little better, or that there is a whole lot of improvement that i can do.
I guess its uncalled for to get that kind of threats and reactions. I think that the extreme position is kinda disturbing, on any matter as a matter of fact. I try to live a balanced life, and in my 29 years i realize that the extremes do bring unbalance, and with it quarrels, or harshness, or submission. I think we should be able to express our opinions, but in doing so we might want to be sensitive to the other person, and reflecting on what it is that you can do or you are tying to achieve by sharing that.
Hmm... i wonder if i make sense now.
RPS rounds it up pretty well... they look at both sides and he brings some interesting questions to the table.
And why is that? We still have a wage gap, an incredibly lopsided gender representation in government, upper management in the private sector, and gender-based discrimination in healthcare. These are demonstrable facts. The sole area where gender equality is taken care of since the 20s is women voting.
And Ace-Angel, you are going to have to provide a link to the blog, or the minute marker of a youtube where she says "I hate men" because that's quite the claim to make.
These are not issues of Women's rights. Women have a right to equal pay (where applicable, since many of us determine our own salaries through negotiation), a right to participate in government and a right to work in the private sector in any field and position they are suitable for. There are also plenty of reasonable arguments as to why this may be the case outside of deliberate discrimination. Have you ever considered that it may be the case that there is a strong cultural bias that is a precursor to this.
More women wear dresses than men - but this is also not indicative of discrimination, it is simply a statistic. The underlying causes are cultural to any casual observer.
The argument that there is a wage gap because of gender discrimination is demonstrably fallacious, as is the proportion of men and women found in upper management (have you thought that this is what causes the wage gap in the first place?). From a business sense, if this pay discrimination really exists, then surely we'd be promoting more women into the higher paying positions as a means of keeping costs lower? It could be considered more likely that cultural bias sees a tendency for women to stray away from business roles in favour of others.
More women go into teaching or nursing than men. Does this mean the education or healthcare industries are heavily biased towards hiring women? It's easy to say that and use the statistics as a weapon, but anyone who wants to actually reason it would easily find evidence to the contrary (do more men fail to find employmeny in these fields than women? - the answer FYI, is no).
Women can and alreayd do all of these things, many just choose not to. This is not indicative of gender discrimination, nor is it a lack of rights. It's a potential lack of interest, and culturally this is already shifting anyway.
It really isn't. Suffrage was only the beginning of the modern Women's Rights movement, and a lot has changed since then. The right to vote has given the influence that allows a woman legal access to equality in property, healthcare, employment and many other areas.
[ame="
I haven't followed much of this discussion, if she is actively engaging the trolls then that's the narrative she will get.
Here's the test to find your unconscious biases that she mentions in her speech - https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
Exactamundo. She's been doing it for a while, but we all know how vocal gamers are on the Internet.
http://www.powells.com/blog/guests/writing-across-gender-by-jennifer-dubois/
Looking at my bookshelf, it is indeed largely written by men - but then I have an interest in older speculative fiction; a genre in which I have never heard of any female authors. Other genres seem to have a healthy mix of genders. The characters are not really distinctively male dominated at all, however, so there I will have to disagree.
But I strongly agree with the article.
Basically she says she needs the money to buy games, video editing software, and some better cameras. Fair enough, 6K seems like a fitting budget to me. (even tho one could argue that her current video equipement is just fine for her to carry her point accross, and that she sure could find someone willing to let her borrow games for the duration of her project )
But now that she is getting 100K in pledge, isn't it a huge problem ? Does that mean that she is making 94K of pure benefits ? Judging from the pledge rewards she lists I feel like she is stuck in a weird corner now and that might actually play against the integrity of her project as a whole.
I am quite certain that she was not planning to make money from this and just wanted to spread her ideas (valid or not!
Very odd situation. Kickstarter really seem to be more suited to projects involving physical production of some sort of device rather than virtual stuff like a game or a video series. I feel like this is going to burst very soon.
People do pay for rewards here too, some involve HD versions of the videos, but yes, I agree that she should mention any plans on what she intends to do with the extra cash, which she could potentially do what she wants with, but also use to fund another projects on the same subject.
Kickstarter's terms and conditions expressly forbid the money raised being given to charitable causes. I can't see where the money can really go, except into her own pocket.
When Christine the Pizan disliked how male-centered books were in 1405, she wrote a book about women. When Anita Sarkeesian dislikes how male-centered games are in 2012, she complains that men need to write better women. It seems the Middle Ages believed more in the capability of women as creators than today's feminists do. The Middle Ages.
What´s so odd is that you weren't saying this same thing in the thread for Tim Schaffer's overfunded kickstarter. It´s almost like a double standard.
She very clearly has made 5 updates on stretch goals and what the extra money will go to. She is not in control of people giving, and as far as I know, there is no way to 'close' a kickstarter after a certain amount of money. Clearly the people who have donated feel her work and what she wants to do has value. Who are you to say what it's worth when other people are voluntarily funding it?
The extra money is going to extra videos, curriculum that teachers can use (and her work has already been used in major universities across the world, she's hardly "just" a vlogger) and a permanent improvement in production values for all future videos. It's all spelled out, had you actually been curious what the additional money were going to.
It's very telling that this is one of the few kickstarters that has had so many sour grape posts about being overfunded, when virtually zero of the (coincidentally? male led) projects that have gone way past the funding goal have had the same.
This has nothing to do with agreeing or not with what she has to say, it's more of an overall side question. And yeah the fact that KS can allows a budget to go that high over the planned amount makes me feel like KS is not that appropriate to non-physical projects.
did anyone really watch the vid that was posted by poopinmymouth? the ted talk? did you watch it poopinmymouth ?
because, what i got from watching was, how she was hoping that women, would take her own stands ( like anita did, maybe ? ) but in more elegant way, more positive ways, like the part of the story about the girl who said she should keep her hands up ( it's shows how to correct things, and in beautiful way ) and then again the part where she was stating that less women was negotiating salary ( forgot how many precent exactly she mentioned , my connections was too slow to buffer it again, sorry )
all the fact she was stated there, and you only cut the part where she said about the Heidy and Howard study ( yes, this i remember correctly, it's not helen as you mentioned )
and even in that study, the respondent didn't say Heidy was a "bitch", as i recall, they say it's going to be hard working with this women, yes, this is a wrong stereotype, i agree completely! and thus, to counter this, is to be like how Sherryl ( is this the right spelling? ) promote equality towards the stereotype among the people, by pushing it from the inside, the problem is already so big, that it was even embedded deep in the women's part as thay tend to avoid making mistakes less than a man ( was stated in the vid )
and therefore, while also educating the counterpart sex,the female also need to change their attitude, and i would totally support if they go through the peacefull attemot like Sherryl, i personally don't like screamings, yelling, insulting etc, so i prefer the peace way, and i would be happy to share this Sherryl vids everywhere, but not this anita vid, sorry, not my taste of struggle, i'm in opposition if you're going to fix the problem, by becoming a problem.
and that's me musterred my strength to post here, and i hope this post did not become another flame starter.
PS : where i live, women have been trying to get their equal right and some get it but some don't, it ussually involves the religion they were in, as in here, it was a kinda major problem, first the stereotype, traditions, and religion, how bad can it be?
Well I guess she could hire weta and greenscreen the shit out of her background with some truly awesome cgi!
The point was that she really doesn't anything that she can put all that money in, perhaps marketing and such, but she doesn't do enough to write about it.
Tim schafers kickstarter is not overfunded, all the money is going into the project, games in that early progress are extremely extendable.
I do believe she'll do something good with the extra money, as I've never believed she doesn't believe in her cause strongly, just that I disagree with some of it.
I truly hope for a world where we can treat eachother equally and still have different views of eachother, equality while still being different, but what does she hope for in characters in games and movies?
More than anything I want to live in a world where people don't treat other people like shit, but I'm not sure if I want to live in a world without bayonetta, cortana, or fairy-tale princesses. Is it wrong for a female to have the classical girlish dream or like girlish things, or is this a trait of the society?
And who decides it?
Actually there are lots of things she could do. She probably has to eat and live in a bed like the rest of us, so the extra money could just fund her series much longer than the original 6,000 were without needing another job to pay the bills. Maybe traveling to schools or countries without the budget to bring her themselves. The point is that when Tim's was overfunded (and it was, I was talking about going over the goal) none of us have any problem thinking of all the ways the money could be used in a game studio on a game production. I can promise you that producing videos does cost money. These aren't grainy webcam rants, they are professionally produced, and film production does cost money.
When someone logged into her kickstarter page and saw it at 60,000 USD, if they didn't think she needed any more, they wouldn't have donated, so clearly those who donated after all goals were met felt there was more she could do with extra dollars. I don't doubt for a second she'll think of something related to the kickstarter theme, and I'm eager to see what it is.
It's funny how penny-arcade can make a living from webcomics, or some of us game developers have no qualms working for a studio that charges money for name changes or faction changes or an auction house (making millions in the process) but when a girl profits off her intellectual property, sound the alarms!
Also, no there is nothing wrong with a girl (or a boy) wanting a fairy tale princess wedding and living at home pregnant and cooking. If that's what someone wants for themselves, more power to them. The idea is to make it so that no one is *forced* into that, or devalued/insulted if they deviate from that as their own goals. Here we have a woman making videos about a legitimate area of study taught in universities all over the world, doing it in a well researched fashion and using high production values, and even creating free curriculum afterwards, and as soon as she is able to make a living off of it, she's attacked. Not just by youtube or wikipedia trolls, but the commenters on Kotaku, the Escapist, and here on polycount.
You should've seen the kotaku response when the star-command guys made their stats official, they raged at the "abuse" of the money, which clearly wasn't abuse, people just weren't aware of where the money was going.
But again, I'm counting her salary as being a part of any future or current product, I'm fine with that, and I don't even think anyone has a problem with her doing whatever she wants with it.
And as I've said, I'm guessing it'll all go towards her future work with in the same area.
Because profiting from important issues have always been a big no-no, that goes for any kind of thing where you are fighting for the greater good, but again: living off it and continuing the work does not equal profiting, profiting would be her sitting on her ass and enjoying passive life without further work.
Now she has the money to further the stuff she does.
They are, and they empower her even further, in a way that I feel my own criticism gets buried, but I guess that's poetic justice in a way.
Any point they might've wanted to get across gets smeared in shit by the foul tactic they're going with, and smears everyone else that might've had that point too, in short: It's complicated.
She has a ton of good points, and a vast amount of people really need to change for the better, but she still has a bunch of less fantastic points that I wish wouldn't have been there, she'll have entire videos on subjects that are not really a part of the cause but rather just an occurance of the situation, such as the women in the freezer or mystical pregnancies.
Presumably she has no game development experience and she wants to make a game (as if making a shitty game isn't hard enough) that some how empowers women (what ever that means) all because she doesn't like how games showcase women and perhaps men as well?
K... then what? Honestly, it just seems like there's this plan with no end goal for it. She basically asks for free money so she could make a game she wants to make.
I'm not going to stop her, anyone can do that and have done exactly that, but don't act like it's for anything other than to push your own ideals on other people.
Really, this entire thing (the whole "problem" with current tropes) seems pointless. Some people like using tropes, deal with it.
also, lol at the comic. Portraying this gal as some kind of super hero? lolk.
sigh!