Kind of weird that he was shot after being captured... didn't the NTC actually want him in court (and then killed I suppose). How much control does the NTC actually have over their soldiers?
Looks like there was a crossfire when they were attacked by pro-Gaddafi forces as they were loading him into a truck to take him away.
Well there was a video circulating that he was being badly beaten before being executed. Allegedly he was begging for his life.
AFAIK he's already dead on the video.
An eye for an eye? Really ?
Well what would you expect after decades of oppression and terror, and months of bloody civil war instead of giving up power peacefully? How many lives were lost just since the summer?
Well what would you expect after decades of oppression and terror, and months of bloody civil war instead of giving up power peacefully? How many lives were lost just since the summer?
I can't really relate to the situation, but it does release some demons deep down in humanity that keeps the vicious circle going.
I think we're just as much savages for parading images of his beaten, mangled dead body throughout the papers and on news sites. People salivating and wanting to see gruesome images of him dead. And he didn't even rule our country as an evil dictator.
I'd only add that in this case it was an eye for who knows how many thousand eyes.
Also, is it really that much more civilized to go through a legal process, keep the man in a prison - then shoot him anyway? Because let's face it, death would have been the most likely sentence. So if he had a trial, then it would have calmed our conscience, and it would have been OK to hang or shoot him because it was legal?
I'm not trying to judge anyone here, I also feel pretty conflicted about the entire issue...
what you are forgetting here is that we are all savages, we are human after all.
Irrespective of the way he died, there is now a good chance that libya will have a better future.
I just hope he doesn't come back as a zombie.
Hopefully Ahmedinejad and Khamenei are next. There are some very evil little man-shaped shitpiles ruling nations in that part of the world, and I am not sad to see one of them go.
Ya making the world a better place hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties at a time... But oh wait they might have nukes? OMG!! No fucking wonder Iran wants to get nukes, almost every country on their borders is either controlled (through invasion) or partially controlled by the US, and they also have Israel (who isn't a member of the non proliferation treaty, and also gets billions of dollars in military aid from the us every year) calling for their destruction. Better call in the cavalry, time to invade... Go watch any documentary on Iran's past dealings with the US and you might have a little bit of sympathy towards their current predicament. Not to say that the government has any hint of a decent human rights record, but consistently calling for war / sanctions on the country isn't the right course of action.
Ya making the world a better place hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties at a time... But oh wait they might have nukes? OMG!! No fucking wonder Iran wants to get nukes, almost every country on their borders is either controlled (through invasion) or partially controlled by the US, and they also have Israel (who isn't a member of the non proliferation treaty, and also gets billions of dollars in military aid from the us every year) calling for their destruction. Better call in the cavalry, time to invade... Go watch any documentary on Iran's past dealings with the US and you might have a little bit of sympathy towards their current predicament. Not to say that the government has any hint of a decent human rights record, but consistently calling for war / sanctions on the country isn't the right course of action.
I'm not going to sideline this thread with a geopolitical debate, but I can't let this go without a response.
When 100 people want to kill a rabid dog because it's trying to bite people, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the dog just because a lot of people don't like it. It's an uncontrollable danger.
Iran has a long and disgusting history since the Islamic revolution of not just abysmal domestic human rights abuses, but also state sponsored terrorism. Do some quick research on Quud's Force, Hizbollah, Iran's support for the most violent parts of Hamas, their secret police VEVAK, and Iran's actions using children as minesweepers during the Iran-Iraq war. If you have any sympathy for that regime once you're done, I worry for your sanity.
I was a little more involved than most CNN readers with the digital side of the protests in Iran during 2009, and every single person I talked to from that country wants the Guardian Council and Ahmedinejad gone. They are living in terror under a government they don't support which is acting sociopathically towards other nations. Their ruler's actions are going to get a lot of them killed unless someone steps in, and they are scared shitless - not just of having their front door kicked in by basij or VEVAK secret police and "disappearing" in the middle of the night, but of their rulers doing something that other nations have no choice but to respond to with massive force.
Quick tip about surviving in a world with rabid dogs - don't hug them. Shoot them.
I'm not going to sideline this thread with a geopolitical debate, but I can't let this go without a response.
When 100 people want to kill a rabid dog because it's trying to bite people, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the dog just because a lot of people don't like it. It's an uncontrollable danger.
Iran has a long and disgusting history since the Islamic revolution of not just abysmal domestic human rights abuses, but also state sponsored terrorism. Do some quick research on Quud's Force, Hizbollah, Iran's support for the most violent parts of Hamas, their secret police VEVAK, and Iran's actions using children as minesweepers during the Iran-Iraq war. If you have any sympathy for that regime once you're done, I worry for your sanity.
I was a little more involved than most CNN readers with the digital side of the protests in Iran during 2009, and every single person I talked to from that country wants the Guardian Council and Ahmedinejad gone. They are living in terror under a government they don't support which is acting sociopathically towards other nations. Their ruler's actions are going to get a lot of them killed unless someone steps in, and they are scared shitless - not just of having their front door kicked in by basij or VEVAK secret police and "disappearing" in the middle of the night, but of their rulers doing something that other nations have no choice but to respond to with massive force.
Quick tip about surviving in a world with rabid dogs - don't hug them. Shoot them.
Yeah Iran is a really odd country. It's officially a very strict islamic nation but from what I can gather from expats from Iran, the population is not quite in support of the regime. Doesn't stop the government policing any anti government resistance but that tension bubble has burst on a number of ocassions.
I was born in Iran and my parents Fled the country due to persecution due to the fact they are bahai (Read more about persecution here) the way we left the country and the events that followed were crazy.
I thank my parents everyday that they left when they did, my parents have lost so many people in their lives due to the Secret police Kidnapping and executing many of there friends and family. My dads younger brother was Kidnapped and never seen during the height of these events during and before the Islamic revolution and several of my mothers cousins and friends were also subjected to these Kidnappings.
Listening to stories from my parents and that of my family that is still in Iran, I am glad i grew up in Canada and now am living and breathing what i love most in this world Freedom.
The Iranian people are smart and Iran itself is beautiful but what holds it back is the old Islamic Extremists that have taken over the government but seeing all that is happening in the middle east right now these old foolish men dont have too much time left in power.
If its not done by an uprising of its people it will gradually happen within itself, i hope its the gradually,due to the fact i dont want people dieing but i have a strong gut feeling that there will be some rumblings soon.
I'm not going to sideline this thread with a geopolitical debate, but I can't let this go without a response.
When 100 people want to kill a rabid dog because it's trying to bite people, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the dog just because a lot of people don't like it. It's an uncontrollable danger.
Iran has a long and disgusting history since the Islamic revolution of not just abysmal domestic human rights abuses, but also state sponsored terrorism. Do some quick research on Quud's Force, Hizbollah, Iran's support for the most violent parts of Hamas, their secret police VEVAK, and Iran's actions using children as minesweepers during the Iran-Iraq war. If you have any sympathy for that regime once you're done, I worry for your sanity.
I was a little more involved than most CNN readers with the digital side of the protests in Iran during 2009, and every single person I talked to from that country wants the Guardian Council and Ahmedinejad gone. They are living in terror under a government they don't support which is acting sociopathically towards other nations. Their ruler's actions are going to get a lot of them killed unless someone steps in, and they are scared shitless - not just of having their front door kicked in by basij or VEVAK secret police and "disappearing" in the middle of the night, but of their rulers doing something that other nations have no choice but to respond to with massive force.
Quick tip about surviving in a world with rabid dogs - don't hug them. Shoot them.
I guess it all depends on which rabid dog you're talking about, which country you're living in, and what the repercussions for shooting the dog are. Do you really believe the world is a safer place now that the US has invaded Iraq and ousted Saddam? Do you believe that the likelihood of a terrorist attack are any less now that Bin laden is dead? I could easily argue that invading Iraq and Afghanistan / killing hundreds of thousands of their civilians has created alot MORE terrorism in the region.
I suppose you would have us believe that the invasion of Iraq and the killing of over 100,000 civilian casualties (that's the lowest estimate by the way) was necessary in order to remove Saddam from the picture. I'll also suppose that you would argue that dropping agent orange on Vietnam was necessary in order to stop the flow of communism in that region of the world / stem the evils that came along with it. You already brought up Hezbollah, so I guess the conquering of Palestine / murder of thousands of it's civilians / the giant wall built through their settlements / the violation of international law when it comes to building new homes on their settlements after you've destroyed them / the billions of dollars in military aid given to Israel to quell the terrorism in the region / the murder of American civilians on aid boats heading towards the Gaza strip, is all justified in order to remove a few bad apples in government. What about the pre Iraq invasion food embargo, (1.5 million civilian casualties) was that justified because of Saddam's invasion of Kuwait?
"Iran has a long and disgusting history since the Islamic revolution of not just abysmal domestic human rights abuses, but also state sponsored terrorism. Do some quick research on Quud's Force, Hizbollah, Iran's support for the most violent parts of Hamas, their secret police VEVAK, and Iran's actions using children as minesweepers during the Iran-Iraq war. If you have any sympathy for that regime once you're done, I worry for your sanity." - you
Iran has a long and disgusting history, I agree. All of those things are horrible disgusting atrocities. In order to see the full picture though, some events need to be added:
1. 1953, democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadeq was overthrown by a CIA orchestrated coup.
2. He was then replaced by the Shah (installed by the US), a brutal dictator who received endless military support from the United States, all at the same time performing brutal acts of hostility and violence towards his own people.
How much military aid was given to Gadaffi during all of his horrific human rights abuses?
To me and alot of other people in the world, the US is the rabid dog biting people. The only time they decide to actually step in and stop human rights abuses, is when they are granted a new strategic stronghold to maintain control over the oil from (whilst commiting their own atrocities on the citizens of said country). You would have us believe that all these invasions are necessary, always for a "just" reason even though during 1/2 the atrocities commited, the US was usually giving a ridiculous amount of financial support / weapons to the ones responsible.
I'm sure I've just created a hornet's nest of controversy. If you're gonna respond (not just you garagebay), keep it civil.
I can say this much, I didn't like the guy. I lived there for quite a while (even went to medical school there) due to my fathers job, and I didn't like him at all.
A teacher of mine was kicked out of school, because he was teaching geography and explained on how the Roman's called Libya the Elysian fields when they first came here, especially around the mountain ranges in places like Leptis Magna.
Long story short, through his friends, he was able to talk to the big guy. Before you know it, he was deported to Egypt (the teacher was from Malta, so connection there) and his friend was put into jail and later on executed because they deemed him hazardous for security reasons.
I'm still not sure if my teacher really was deported, but I know for a fact I was never able to get into contact with him again.
Replies
Looks like there was a crossfire when they were attacked by pro-Gaddafi forces as they were loading him into a truck to take him away.
His own stooges killed him.
An eye for an eye? Really ?
AFAIK he's already dead on the video.
Well what would you expect after decades of oppression and terror, and months of bloody civil war instead of giving up power peacefully? How many lives were lost just since the summer?
I can't really relate to the situation, but it does release some demons deep down in humanity that keeps the vicious circle going.
'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'
I hope for a good future for their country.
Also, is it really that much more civilized to go through a legal process, keep the man in a prison - then shoot him anyway? Because let's face it, death would have been the most likely sentence. So if he had a trial, then it would have calmed our conscience, and it would have been OK to hang or shoot him because it was legal?
I'm not trying to judge anyone here, I also feel pretty conflicted about the entire issue...
Irrespective of the way he died, there is now a good chance that libya will have a better future.
I just hope he doesn't come back as a zombie.
Ya making the world a better place hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties at a time... But oh wait they might have nukes? OMG!! No fucking wonder Iran wants to get nukes, almost every country on their borders is either controlled (through invasion) or partially controlled by the US, and they also have Israel (who isn't a member of the non proliferation treaty, and also gets billions of dollars in military aid from the us every year) calling for their destruction. Better call in the cavalry, time to invade... Go watch any documentary on Iran's past dealings with the US and you might have a little bit of sympathy towards their current predicament. Not to say that the government has any hint of a decent human rights record, but consistently calling for war / sanctions on the country isn't the right course of action.
I'm not going to sideline this thread with a geopolitical debate, but I can't let this go without a response.
When 100 people want to kill a rabid dog because it's trying to bite people, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the dog just because a lot of people don't like it. It's an uncontrollable danger.
Iran has a long and disgusting history since the Islamic revolution of not just abysmal domestic human rights abuses, but also state sponsored terrorism. Do some quick research on Quud's Force, Hizbollah, Iran's support for the most violent parts of Hamas, their secret police VEVAK, and Iran's actions using children as minesweepers during the Iran-Iraq war. If you have any sympathy for that regime once you're done, I worry for your sanity.
I was a little more involved than most CNN readers with the digital side of the protests in Iran during 2009, and every single person I talked to from that country wants the Guardian Council and Ahmedinejad gone. They are living in terror under a government they don't support which is acting sociopathically towards other nations. Their ruler's actions are going to get a lot of them killed unless someone steps in, and they are scared shitless - not just of having their front door kicked in by basij or VEVAK secret police and "disappearing" in the middle of the night, but of their rulers doing something that other nations have no choice but to respond to with massive force.
Quick tip about surviving in a world with rabid dogs - don't hug them. Shoot them.
NEXT
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Yeah Iran is a really odd country. It's officially a very strict islamic nation but from what I can gather from expats from Iran, the population is not quite in support of the regime. Doesn't stop the government policing any anti government resistance but that tension bubble has burst on a number of ocassions.
I thank my parents everyday that they left when they did, my parents have lost so many people in their lives due to the Secret police Kidnapping and executing many of there friends and family. My dads younger brother was Kidnapped and never seen during the height of these events during and before the Islamic revolution and several of my mothers cousins and friends were also subjected to these Kidnappings.
Listening to stories from my parents and that of my family that is still in Iran, I am glad i grew up in Canada and now am living and breathing what i love most in this world Freedom.
The Iranian people are smart and Iran itself is beautiful but what holds it back is the old Islamic Extremists that have taken over the government but seeing all that is happening in the middle east right now these old foolish men dont have too much time left in power.
If its not done by an uprising of its people it will gradually happen within itself, i hope its the gradually,due to the fact i dont want people dieing but i have a strong gut feeling that there will be some rumblings soon.
Thanks for injecting humanity and thoughtful reason into the discussion.
I guess it all depends on which rabid dog you're talking about, which country you're living in, and what the repercussions for shooting the dog are. Do you really believe the world is a safer place now that the US has invaded Iraq and ousted Saddam? Do you believe that the likelihood of a terrorist attack are any less now that Bin laden is dead? I could easily argue that invading Iraq and Afghanistan / killing hundreds of thousands of their civilians has created alot MORE terrorism in the region.
I suppose you would have us believe that the invasion of Iraq and the killing of over 100,000 civilian casualties (that's the lowest estimate by the way) was necessary in order to remove Saddam from the picture. I'll also suppose that you would argue that dropping agent orange on Vietnam was necessary in order to stop the flow of communism in that region of the world / stem the evils that came along with it. You already brought up Hezbollah, so I guess the conquering of Palestine / murder of thousands of it's civilians / the giant wall built through their settlements / the violation of international law when it comes to building new homes on their settlements after you've destroyed them / the billions of dollars in military aid given to Israel to quell the terrorism in the region / the murder of American civilians on aid boats heading towards the Gaza strip, is all justified in order to remove a few bad apples in government. What about the pre Iraq invasion food embargo, (1.5 million civilian casualties) was that justified because of Saddam's invasion of Kuwait?
"Iran has a long and disgusting history since the Islamic revolution of not just abysmal domestic human rights abuses, but also state sponsored terrorism. Do some quick research on Quud's Force, Hizbollah, Iran's support for the most violent parts of Hamas, their secret police VEVAK, and Iran's actions using children as minesweepers during the Iran-Iraq war. If you have any sympathy for that regime once you're done, I worry for your sanity." - you
Iran has a long and disgusting history, I agree. All of those things are horrible disgusting atrocities. In order to see the full picture though, some events need to be added:
1. 1953, democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadeq was overthrown by a CIA orchestrated coup.
2. He was then replaced by the Shah (installed by the US), a brutal dictator who received endless military support from the United States, all at the same time performing brutal acts of hostility and violence towards his own people.
How much military aid was given to Gadaffi during all of his horrific human rights abuses?
To me and alot of other people in the world, the US is the rabid dog biting people. The only time they decide to actually step in and stop human rights abuses, is when they are granted a new strategic stronghold to maintain control over the oil from (whilst commiting their own atrocities on the citizens of said country). You would have us believe that all these invasions are necessary, always for a "just" reason even though during 1/2 the atrocities commited, the US was usually giving a ridiculous amount of financial support / weapons to the ones responsible.
I'm sure I've just created a hornet's nest of controversy. If you're gonna respond (not just you garagebay), keep it civil.
A teacher of mine was kicked out of school, because he was teaching geography and explained on how the Roman's called Libya the Elysian fields when they first came here, especially around the mountain ranges in places like Leptis Magna.
Long story short, through his friends, he was able to talk to the big guy. Before you know it, he was deported to Egypt (the teacher was from Malta, so connection there) and his friend was put into jail and later on executed because they deemed him hazardous for security reasons.
I'm still not sure if my teacher really was deported, but I know for a fact I was never able to get into contact with him again.