Halo wasn't new, it had a marketing budget at the right time. Its effectively marathon 4, with vehicle sections. Course no frat party ever played marathon 1-3 because computers in general weren't frat house equipment and mac's less so.
If you want to bitch about ganked music, go listen to the sountracks for DOOM and DOOM2. While they're chiptunes, most of the music is still blatant, note for note, ripoffs of assorted metal and industrial of the day.
Moreover why is it every one of us could pretend to be a psychic for the first year lineup of every nintendo console released from the Gamecube on? Comeon, say it with me, Mario, Link, Samus, Party game.
So yeah, gameloft is apeing some major titles on a different platform. And yes, it would be nice to see them be more original, and that introduces more customer risk. I immagine they're wanting these to be recognized as knockoffs, but for mobile platforms, so the fans can finally have a way to "take it with them".
Halo wasn't new, it had a marketing budget at the right time. Its effectively marathon 4, with vehicle sections. Course no frat party ever played marathon 1-3 because computers in general weren't frat house equipment and mac's less so.
Well yeah, it was bungies own game, but if you let a big frat party have a go at both games they'd have a hard time finding the similarities or connections.
So yeah, gameloft is apeing some major titles on a different platform. And yes, it would be nice to see them be more original, and that introduces more customer risk. I immagine they're wanting these to be recognized as knockoffs, but for mobile platforms, so the fans can finally have a way to "take it with them".
It does, but the reason most developers don't release on these platforms is because this platform required a watered down low-price experience.
You'll notice it on gamelofts titles, they look lika those flashy titles you'd expect, but under the surface they're shallow clones with a short length.
Urgh, i reeeeaaally hate gameloft Haha, one of my friends is working for them as a PR manager, I have SUCH a hard time not trolling her on facebook everytime she posts another about another stupid blatant ripoff.
bet you didn't know gameloft has a dedicated concept team based out of shanghai, and now singapore.
i almost feel sorry for the guys on there, it doesn't make a difference how fresh their concepts are, if all the studio puts out is thinly veiled ripoffs of other IP's.
bet you didn't know gameloft has a dedicated concept team based out of shanghai, and now singapore.
i almost feel sorry for the guys on there, it doesn't make a difference how fresh their concepts are, if all the studio puts out is thinly veiled ripoffs of other IP's.
Exactly, and it does hurt me to think that these guys probably get to hear "make it a bit more like masterchief" quite a lot.
bet you didn't know gameloft has a dedicated concept team based out of shanghai, and now singapore.
i almost feel sorry for the guys on there, it doesn't make a difference how fresh their concepts are, if all the studio puts out is thinly veiled ripoffs of other IP's.
WTF guys?! I can clearly see where the inspiration for several of those concepts came from, but I still find them MORE original then what we have right now INSIDE the game, this doesn't make sense!
Are we sure Gameloft CGI artists aren't simply cutting the middle ground, and just winging it when they get the artwork so they don't have to put in extra effort?
yea dungeon hunters might feel like diablo / dungeon siege but its fucking awesome. one of the few diablo style games for iphone and I am glad they put it out. some of their more blatant ripoffs usually make me roll my eyes when I hear about them but if no one is making uncharted for iphone, they can atleast make something that caters to that crowd.
Well, now we know they have good artists. So it must be the management that has them pumping out mobile clones of popular games. I've got some rotten produce, who wants to go vandalize?!? jk
Now they're stealing Hollywoods sign, great...when will the madness end!
EDIT: I can't believe that management would be so out there to rip-off other things. Are we really saying here that Gameloft's creative process is more 'closed' and 'tyrannic' for a lack of better terms, as opposed to bigger companies? I have heard stories of where people have a bright idea, but it gets rejected because it doesn't fit the bill, in BIG companies. They then get fired, and due to paperwork, the big companies get to use the idea later on.
While I heard smaller ones are more of a environment of cooperation, where everyone, once they get well known around the place, have a say on some level. Also, people in charge of management and design are less of extraneous Mary Sue wannabe's.
I guess I should retire my previous comment of 'lazy artists', that uncalled for, I apologize, but I still cannot fathom on why they don't want to apply their own flavor. I tried a few of their games on my friend IPhone and IPad, they were good and fun, but the designs just irk me...
It's okay, Gameloft are within legal boundries, they can rip all they want, I'd even bet they quite often have the "how far can we go" discussions with their lawyers, I'm not even kidding.
So you don't have to worry about not seeing more of their rich and deep titles.
I would say a rip-off, is when you apply a black material to your model and you can't tell the difference between Master Chief and/or your own character.
I would also say a rip-off, is when your character even has a texture on, but from the back looks exactly the same as Master Chief, and if takes you more then 5 seconds to spot the difference.
I would also say, that while making weapons and props which are inspired from other games is very normal, a rip off is when you take another characters gun, replicated exactly and call it a day.
I'm not trying to say Gameloft isn't doing something good at the end of the day and that we should pitchfork everyone at the studio, but damn it, do you really need to go as far as to rip off a GUN FROM ANOTHER POPULAR GAME? A gun? Really? Something that small, you cannot muster the brain power to create something original for that...
In a way the visual ripoffs are one thing ... but then claims like this one are really pushing it, I think :
Established in 1999, it has emerged as one of the top innovators in its field.
Yeah right
Working in such an environment must feel reaaaaally weird, actually. "Just use the exact same silhouette as the Halo Covenent - see attached .jpg for reference."
These ripoffs (which are blatant, and they are not hiding them) are getting 85-90's on Metacritic, and are very fun to play. What's not to like about them?
Until Blizzard, Bungie, and Nintendo start making games for the iphone, I personally think they're fantastic!
Jacque, didnt you used to work for gameloft? I think i remember you defending them on kotaku a while ago.
Also, why are reviews relevent really? I cant really comment on gameplay having not played any of their games but when its practically a port why should it get significantly worse than the original?
Lets say hypothetically i made deadspace for the 360, then someone else ported it to the PC - why would the PC version get a worse review when the core is the same?
My issue is similar to what Ace-angel is bringing up, its not about whether or not the original creators are using the platform or not, my main problem is why, when theyre evidently capable, arent they at least flexing their creative muscles a bit. Using the whole derivative thing as some sort of excuse is a bit of a copout.
Am i expecting too much from people who have spent a decent amount of time honing their craft?
Jacque, didnt you used to work for gameloft? I think i remember you defending them on kotaku a while ago.
Also, why are reviews relevent really? I cant really comment on gameplay having not played any of their games but when its practically a port why should it get significantly worse than the original?
Lets say hypothetically i made deadspace for the 360, then someone else ported it to the PC - why would the PC version get a worse review when the core is the same?
My issue is similar to what Ace-angel is bringing up, its not about whether or not the original creators are using the platform or not, my main problem is why, when theyre evidently capable, arent they at least flexing their creative muscles a bit. Using the whole derivative thing as some sort of excuse is fucking pathetic and insulting.
Am i expecting too much from people who have spent a decent amount of time honing their craft?
First part: Because it's not really a "port." A port would be the same game, but these are recreations. Made from scratch from Gameloft. And reviews are relevant because the consumer dictates what's good, not you.
Second part: Because people expect different things on different systems. PC games have to be better than console games most of the time, and consoles have to be better than mobile games, but mobile games are the bottom of the chain, they are what ever developers are willing to let them be.
Third part: What are you asking? Why isn't gameloft being creative? Or why are they using derivation as a coverup? Gameloft isn't being supported enough, and isn't being challenged enough to really push the boundaries of mobile games. What do you want from them? They're alone on this type of mobile game, and everything they produce is what people have wanted forever on their mobile device.
Do you know how difficult it is for studio to go; "Hey, this has worked for us in the past, this sells, and this is our franchise," "let's break it down and get creative."
If you look at Volition and Westwood studios, they did that and one got shut down, and the other was severely set back. It's a gamble. And Gameloft is in too good a position to gamble. If you want to change whats going on there, write to them. They listen very heavily to the community.
But about them using derivation as an excuse, I don't really get. Gameloft hasn't said "look we're making derivations, fuck you." They just make shit people have always wanted to place for the mobile format. This is a non-issue.
Dont pick up on the definition of the word port too much, it was an obvious exaggeration to try and make a point, oh well.
"Do you know how difficult it is for studio to go; "Hey, this has worked for us in the past, this sells, and this is our franchise," "let's break it down and get creative."
If only these were their franchises, right?
I dont really see what letting gameloft know what i think would do when posting on one of the best? game art boards still yields conflict on the matter.
But hey, theres a demand for it right? Guess that makes it ok... for some reason this picture seems appropriate;
I'm fucking naive, i'll give up trying to argue my point as i lack the knowledge or eloquence to really get my view across. Perhaps the simplest way will be for me to work on my craft and lead by example.
When you really think about it, in a way gameloft was pretty innovative. Everyone else is copying their copying at this point. To my knowledge blizzard north isn't part of blizzard any more, so in all reality the next diablo is (aside from legal mumbo jumbo) also a clone.
Jacque, didnt you used to work for gameloft? I think i remember you defending them on kotaku a while ago.
Also, why are reviews relevent really? I cant really comment on gameplay having not played any of their games but when its practically a port why should it get significantly worse than the original?
Never worked for them. Like their games.
And the pseudo-ripoff is a marketing ploy.
Not really sure the market is buying creative endeavours. I mean all I ever see are sequels being made.
That the app-market has an inherited lower standard, gameloft fits right in!
Out of curiosity.
Do you have a Mobile with games? Chaos Rings? Sword and Sorcery?
And have you played any of these Gameloft games? Or are you just regurgitating what Kotaku is saying, completely based on their biased articles aiming to smear them.
Just want to know if anything you've said in this thread has any relevance at all.
Do you have a Mobile with games? Chaos Rings? Sword and Sorcery?
And have you played any of these Gameloft games? Or are you just regurgitating what Kotaku is saying, completely based on their biased articles aiming to smear them.
Just want to know if anything you've said in this thread has any relevance at all.
Oh I have an ipod touch, so I sample mobile games times from times, I also worked quite a lot with mobile games earlier and experienced gameloft grow big. It has always been a big industry targeted towards revenue even more heavily than the console one, good games wont always sell, you have to violently market it.
Personally I haven't even touched on Kotaku as you'll notice if you look at my posts.
You'll find quite some gems on the app market, like game dev story or sword and sorcery ep, but you'll have to wade through a sea of shit to get there, sadly these games are all usually quite short experiences.
Now dungeon hunter personally the game from gameloft I see as being the most unique of all their games, as it doesn't violently attempt to rip off diablo, nor did I ever mention it as being a rip-off either.
So... Halo, CoD, Diablo, and Starcraft never borrowed very heavily from something else?
BTW, answer me a quick question. Can I play Diablo on my phone? Or do I need to be in front of my PC for this?
Because if you can get it on my phone, I will stop playing Dungeon Hunters for the 10mins I am on the metro.
Jacque, you seem to be a bit all over the place, mate.
Nothing in your reply has anything to do with what I wrote. This is a thread talking about Gameloft ripping off other IPs. You can argue that every single dev borrows from others, but it seems Gameloft are doing this with a rather heavy hand, to the point where it looks like a blatant ripoff, rather than mere referencing.
Diablo not being available on your mobile device refers to nothing in my reply.
To summarise the point I was originally making: It still qualifies as a ripoff, even if it's targeting mobile platforms rather than current consoles and PC/Mac. It has nothing to do with "genre".
I wont say anything about this thread or the subject much, cause frankly to each is own. But ill just point out, that for the people in this thread,looking for work, or freelancer , students, or others looking to get work in this industry , Starting a witch hunt and such ( even if its just your own opinion) well its a litle bit counter productive.. You may not want to work there, but hey, its a small fucking world.
I've always really wondered how the legalities work for places like gameloft, I woulda figured they were cutting it too close, but then again even the other day I noticed all the remakes of Trials on xbox360.
It's still been something that always scared me about my own projects, I'd be curious if anybody here's had experience with the laws regarding how-close-is-too-close?
Replies
Halo wasn't new, it had a marketing budget at the right time. Its effectively marathon 4, with vehicle sections. Course no frat party ever played marathon 1-3 because computers in general weren't frat house equipment and mac's less so.
If you want to bitch about ganked music, go listen to the sountracks for DOOM and DOOM2. While they're chiptunes, most of the music is still blatant, note for note, ripoffs of assorted metal and industrial of the day.
Moreover why is it every one of us could pretend to be a psychic for the first year lineup of every nintendo console released from the Gamecube on? Comeon, say it with me, Mario, Link, Samus, Party game.
So yeah, gameloft is apeing some major titles on a different platform. And yes, it would be nice to see them be more original, and that introduces more customer risk. I immagine they're wanting these to be recognized as knockoffs, but for mobile platforms, so the fans can finally have a way to "take it with them".
Well yeah, it was bungies own game, but if you let a big frat party have a go at both games they'd have a hard time finding the similarities or connections.
It does, but the reason most developers don't release on these platforms is because this platform required a watered down low-price experience.
You'll notice it on gamelofts titles, they look lika those flashy titles you'd expect, but under the surface they're shallow clones with a short length.
i almost feel sorry for the guys on there, it doesn't make a difference how fresh their concepts are, if all the studio puts out is thinly veiled ripoffs of other IP's.
http://redsteam.net/
Exactly, and it does hurt me to think that these guys probably get to hear "make it a bit more like masterchief" quite a lot.
Are we sure Gameloft CGI artists aren't simply cutting the middle ground, and just winging it when they get the artwork so they don't have to put in extra effort?
Dungeon Hunters rules.
Some incredibly talented Polycounters have worked at gameloft BTW.
EDIT: I can't believe that management would be so out there to rip-off other things. Are we really saying here that Gameloft's creative process is more 'closed' and 'tyrannic' for a lack of better terms, as opposed to bigger companies? I have heard stories of where people have a bright idea, but it gets rejected because it doesn't fit the bill, in BIG companies. They then get fired, and due to paperwork, the big companies get to use the idea later on.
While I heard smaller ones are more of a environment of cooperation, where everyone, once they get well known around the place, have a say on some level. Also, people in charge of management and design are less of extraneous Mary Sue wannabe's.
I guess I should retire my previous comment of 'lazy artists', that uncalled for, I apologize, but I still cannot fathom on why they don't want to apply their own flavor. I tried a few of their games on my friend IPhone and IPad, they were good and fun, but the designs just irk me...
They're phone games. Completely different Genre.
(BTW the Owners also own Ubisoft, and have very similar management/game making practices).
Show me 1 phone game that these games are ripped off from. I mean it's not like they're cloning Angry Birds, or Cut the Rope.
They're obviously borrowing rather heavily from existing games pioneered by other studios.
They are phone games, and whilst that is very impressive, they're the same genres. Just different hardware specs and control mechanics.
So... Halo, CoD, Diablo, and Starcraft never borrowed very heavily from something else?
BTW, answer me a quick question. Can I play Diablo on my phone? Or do I need to be in front of my PC for this?
Because if you can get it on my phone, I will stop playing Dungeon Hunters for the 10mins I am on the metro.
So you don't have to worry about not seeing more of their rich and deep titles.
I would also say a rip-off, is when your character even has a texture on, but from the back looks exactly the same as Master Chief, and if takes you more then 5 seconds to spot the difference.
I would also say, that while making weapons and props which are inspired from other games is very normal, a rip off is when you take another characters gun, replicated exactly and call it a day.
I'm not trying to say Gameloft isn't doing something good at the end of the day and that we should pitchfork everyone at the studio, but damn it, do you really need to go as far as to rip off a GUN FROM ANOTHER POPULAR GAME? A gun? Really? Something that small, you cannot muster the brain power to create something original for that...
coincidence right?
Yeah right
Working in such an environment must feel reaaaaally weird, actually. "Just use the exact same silhouette as the Halo Covenent - see attached .jpg for reference."
http://www.gamespot.com/iphone/rpg/dungeonhunter/index.html
Order and Chaos (WoW Ripoff) - 86 on Metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/order-chaos-online
Starfront (Starcraft Ripoff) 87 on Metacritic:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/starfront-collision
NOVA 3 (Halo Ripoff) 91 on Metacritic:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/nova-2---near-orbit-vanguard-alliance
These ripoffs (which are blatant, and they are not hiding them) are getting 85-90's on Metacritic, and are very fun to play. What's not to like about them?
Until Blizzard, Bungie, and Nintendo start making games for the iphone, I personally think they're fantastic!
You were saying?
Now that you mention it, halo was in fact an rts to begin with
Also, why are reviews relevent really? I cant really comment on gameplay having not played any of their games but when its practically a port why should it get significantly worse than the original?
Lets say hypothetically i made deadspace for the 360, then someone else ported it to the PC - why would the PC version get a worse review when the core is the same?
My issue is similar to what Ace-angel is bringing up, its not about whether or not the original creators are using the platform or not, my main problem is why, when theyre evidently capable, arent they at least flexing their creative muscles a bit. Using the whole derivative thing as some sort of excuse is a bit of a copout.
Am i expecting too much from people who have spent a decent amount of time honing their craft?
First part: Because it's not really a "port." A port would be the same game, but these are recreations. Made from scratch from Gameloft. And reviews are relevant because the consumer dictates what's good, not you.
Second part: Because people expect different things on different systems. PC games have to be better than console games most of the time, and consoles have to be better than mobile games, but mobile games are the bottom of the chain, they are what ever developers are willing to let them be.
Third part: What are you asking? Why isn't gameloft being creative? Or why are they using derivation as a coverup? Gameloft isn't being supported enough, and isn't being challenged enough to really push the boundaries of mobile games. What do you want from them? They're alone on this type of mobile game, and everything they produce is what people have wanted forever on their mobile device.
Do you know how difficult it is for studio to go; "Hey, this has worked for us in the past, this sells, and this is our franchise," "let's break it down and get creative."
If you look at Volition and Westwood studios, they did that and one got shut down, and the other was severely set back. It's a gamble. And Gameloft is in too good a position to gamble. If you want to change whats going on there, write to them. They listen very heavily to the community.
But about them using derivation as an excuse, I don't really get. Gameloft hasn't said "look we're making derivations, fuck you." They just make shit people have always wanted to place for the mobile format. This is a non-issue.
"Do you know how difficult it is for studio to go; "Hey, this has worked for us in the past, this sells, and this is our franchise," "let's break it down and get creative."
If only these were their franchises, right?
I dont really see what letting gameloft know what i think would do when posting on one of the best? game art boards still yields conflict on the matter.
But hey, theres a demand for it right? Guess that makes it ok... for some reason this picture seems appropriate;
You seem to objectify Gameloft as this evil corporation that wants to take money out of your pocket without ever really trying, like they're thieves.
If that's your stance on the issue, then I'll just go continue the debate with some of the walls in my house.
Jesus, man.
I'm fucking naive, i'll give up trying to argue my point as i lack the knowledge or eloquence to really get my view across. Perhaps the simplest way will be for me to work on my craft and lead by example.
Never worked for them. Like their games.
And the pseudo-ripoff is a marketing ploy.
Not really sure the market is buying creative endeavours. I mean all I ever see are sequels being made.
Is it creative? Nope. Does it sell? Yup!
Which do you think the bottom line is?
That the app-market has an inherited lower standard, gameloft fits right in!
Out of curiosity.
Do you have a Mobile with games? Chaos Rings? Sword and Sorcery?
And have you played any of these Gameloft games? Or are you just regurgitating what Kotaku is saying, completely based on their biased articles aiming to smear them.
Just want to know if anything you've said in this thread has any relevance at all.
Oh I have an ipod touch, so I sample mobile games times from times, I also worked quite a lot with mobile games earlier and experienced gameloft grow big. It has always been a big industry targeted towards revenue even more heavily than the console one, good games wont always sell, you have to violently market it.
Personally I haven't even touched on Kotaku as you'll notice if you look at my posts.
You'll find quite some gems on the app market, like game dev story or sword and sorcery ep, but you'll have to wade through a sea of shit to get there, sadly these games are all usually quite short experiences.
Now dungeon hunter personally the game from gameloft I see as being the most unique of all their games, as it doesn't violently attempt to rip off diablo, nor did I ever mention it as being a rip-off either.
Jacque, you seem to be a bit all over the place, mate.
Nothing in your reply has anything to do with what I wrote. This is a thread talking about Gameloft ripping off other IPs. You can argue that every single dev borrows from others, but it seems Gameloft are doing this with a rather heavy hand, to the point where it looks like a blatant ripoff, rather than mere referencing.
Diablo not being available on your mobile device refers to nothing in my reply.
To summarise the point I was originally making: It still qualifies as a ripoff, even if it's targeting mobile platforms rather than current consoles and PC/Mac. It has nothing to do with "genre".
Oh well easier to trim down the herd!
Burning my bridges for a good cause man!
~ Find causes that matter. Perhaps breast cancer or child slavery?
Integrity is a pretty good one, but yeah, this thread is awesome now so I'll just leave this here.
Doesn't matter, b1ll is a well known noob, his recommendation wouldn't get me further than mcdonalds!
oh shit. lol
It's still been something that always scared me about my own projects, I'd be curious if anybody here's had experience with the laws regarding how-close-is-too-close?