I thought we were in this mess because of 2 unfunded wars and an unfunded tax cut. You can't fix that mess in 4 years, lets see how it is after Obama's second term because I don't really see how the conservatives can win over independents, their base and the crazy fringe that's grown into more of a majority.
I thought we were in this mess because of 2 unfunded wars and an unfunded tax cut. You can't fix that mess in 4 years, lets see how it is after Obama's second term because I don't really see how the conservatives can win over independents, their base and the crazy fringe that's grown into more of a majority.
So let's punish the successful,(why the unemployment is so high) and send 30k more troops into a war started by Bush? How long does a mess like that take? 4 more so fair is fair?
It is convenient to note from your perspective how "crazy" the other side is, especially when the other side is talking about cutting spending/Government services which is somehow "extreme".
laughably, how often Government shutdowns happen and "your side" (Go team..?) cried like it would be the end of the world.
Even Democrat Governors are now having to deal with cutting Government services. Are they "Extreme" too?
No, unless we change our Constitution. Are you familiar with it?
Nowhere in my post did even suggest anything in regards to your constitution, I seriously don't care about that thing. I was simply asking why you think someone born in North Korea or Iran could not run your country.
I know you have to be born in the US to run for president, it just seems you think place of birth has any holding on how you run a country.
Nowhere in my post did even suggest anything in regards to your constitution, I seriously don't care about that thing. I was simply asking why you think someone born in North Korea or Iran could not run your country.
I know you have to be born in the US to run for president, it just seems you think place of birth has any holding on how you run a country.
Hey Skamberin, I think we just misunderstood each other. I was talking about how it is in the US Constitution about natural born citizens are only able to run for President.
My point was how some people say they "don't care".
Hey Skamberin, I think we just misunderstood each other. I was talking about how it is in the US Constitution about natural born citizens are only able to run for President.
My point was how some people say they "don't care".
Do you see the slippery slope?
It's against the constitution of course.
What I think others mean though (those who say they "don't care") is that what piece of land you were born on doesn't define your abilities as a leader, it's how you're raised.
And while you personally are not happy with Obama as a president, he would probably not have run the country differently had he been born in Kenya, Pakistan, Iran or anywhere else, it's where he was raised and spent the majority of his time growing up that matters.
(it being unconstitutional notwithstanding)
Which is also why I think it's odd that some people are so up in arms about this, is it simply because they don't like him? Or are they just extremely law abiding citizens out to make sure everything is being done properly?
Apparently OCR was already debunked since there was no search index for the .pdf, in which OCR sets up a search index for all the text in the document.
OCR would create an index, but using the 'Optimize Scanned PDF' function does not. It basically just does a bad autotrace (from what I can see after trying it on my own birth certificate) then slaps the traced vector elements into a new layer leaving other pieces and bits it couldn't trace in the other layers. End result is something that looks just like what was released.
Hey Skamberin, I think we just misunderstood each other. I was talking about how it is in the US Constitution about natural born citizens are only able to run for President.
My point was how some people say they "don't care".
Which is also why I think it's odd that some people are so up in arms about this, is it simply because they don't like him? Or are they just extremely law abiding citizens out to make sure everything is being done properly?
It's because they don't like him. Politics in America has become so partisan and uncompromising that for many people it's essentially Red team vs. Blue team. If you've decided to throw your lot in with the Red team, you oppose every single Blue candidate and policy, and you root for the Red team to counter them in any way possible. Obama is the front man for the Blue Team, and so you want him torn down anyway possible. If believing (or acting as if you believe) that Obama was not eligible when he was elected has even a razor thin hope of tearing him down, you believe it because that would be an historic victory for the Red team.
Best of all, hating the Blue team gives you and fellow Red teamers something to talk about and rally around, just like rooting for a professional sports club. This is the entire reason for Fox News, they're like ESPN for the Red team. The Blue team has similar team members who act just the same way, but they're generally not as obnoxious about it.
Moderate, independent politics are almost a fairy tale in America. If you're a politician and you want to be elected to office on a national level, you either run with the Red team or with the Blue team. There's virtually no middle ground, and what does remain seems to shrink a little more each year.
I honestly want a government that will raise taxes and sensibly cut spending. Right now we've got alot of defecate hawks that want to cut programs based on politics, not what's good for the country.
Take the NPR defunding for instance, it was done solely to punish something the conservatives disagree with, it didn't save Tax payers one red cent - the money still goes to stations, it just bars them from spending it on NPR programming. So no money saved and alot of small stations might shut down - bravo.
I honestly want a government that will raise taxes and sensibly cut spending. Right now we've got alot of defecate hawks that want to cut programs based on politics, not what's good for the country.
Take the NPR defunding for instance, it was done solely to punish something the conservatives disagree with, it didn't save Tax payers one red cent - the money still goes to stations, it just bars them from spending it on NPR programming. So no money saved and alot of small stations might shut down - bravo.
Ah yes, I remember "those" kinds of crazies.
Kinda of like the same irresponsible, sickening left winged media news reporters that lumped 20+ million Americans for the sole actions of a lone nut job during the Giffords shootings, which were later proven to have shown that he did not follow politics and was not for one way or the other, nevermind the irresponsible media that cashed in on that chance!
Of course there are "crazies" in the TEA party Justin. Have you seen some of the protests from the "one nation rally" from the left wingers all there promoting Communism and Socialism?
It is so touching how much those people honored the Red Soviet flag- under how many millions suffered and died under the brutal reign of Joseph Stalin, and these individuals believe that Socialism and Communism is the answer? Despite it's failings the world over time and time again? Glad to see those "extremist's" right in the open from the left!
The NPR de-funding was for excellent cause. You had the President of the news organization even caught in a video saying they could do without "federal funding", and by the way Justin, I do NOT want my taxes going to some bigoted, pro- Muslim Extremest news group that sympathizes with groups like the Muslim Brotherhood that treat women like cattle and ultimately believe in Sharia law for the world. And then have the nerve to turn around and say a whole bunch of people in the TEA party are "racists" blah blah blah.
That is what is so hilarious about the media and it's ridiculous bias this entire time. I can't tell you how many radical left wing protests, idiots and mush heads during Bush, and hell even now during Obama. Just take a look at the protests in Wisconsin, people being dragged out of the Capitol building like spoiled little 4 year olds who didn't get their way, despite the fact that even now Democrat Governors all around America are starting to realize the need for budget cuts. Thus vindicating the TEA party candidates who got in to power last November to curb Government's growth.
Listen, I am pissed towards Republicans too. I myself am more of a Libertarian-Conservative, and Republicans need to buck up on a lot of things in order for people to take them serious again. But it is absolutely farcical how people like you lump a few crazies into the movement as a whole. In my opinion, the TEA party is the best movement to have happened to our country in a long time. Why? Because it awakened a shit load of people up about how we need to start controlling the ridiculous ways in which we over spend, and over bloat our Government.
How funny you left wingers have no gripes hating on the military, and questioning it on "killing unarmed civilians", and yet you believe the Government can run our health care system, among everything else competently and effectively, without the loss of rights, privileges or previous quality of care we have seen before.
I honestly want a government that will raise taxes and sensibly cut spending. Right now we've got alot of defecate hawks that want to cut programs based on politics, not what's good for the country.
Take the NPR defunding for instance, it was done solely to punish something the conservatives disagree with, it didn't save Tax payers one red cent - the money still goes to stations, it just bars them from spending it on NPR programming. So no money saved and alot of small stations might shut down - bravo.
Kinda of like the same irresponsible, sickening left winged media news reporters that lumped 20+ million Americans for the sole actions of a lone nut job during the Giffords shootings, which were later proven to have shown that he did not follow politics and was not for one way or the other, nevermind the irresponsible media that cashed in on that chance!
Of course there are "crazies" in the TEA party Justin. Have you seen some of the protests from the "one nation rally" from the left wingers all there promoting Communism and Socialism?
It is so touching how much those people honored the Red Soviet flag- under how many millions suffered and died under the brutal reign of Joseph Stalin, and these individuals believe that Socialism and Communism is the answer? Despite it's failings the world over time and time again? Glad to see those "extremist's" right in the open from the left!
The NPR funding was for excellent cause. You had the President of the news organization even caught in a video saying they could do without "federal funding", and by the way Justin, I do NOT want my taxes going to some bigoted, pro- Muslim Extremest news group that sympathizes with groups like the Muslim Brotherhood that treat women like cattle and ultimately believe in Sharia law for the world.
That is what is so hilarious about the media and it's ridiculous bias this entire time. I can't tell you how many radical left wing protests, idiots and mush heads during Bush, and hell even now during Obama. Just take a look at the protests in Wisconsin, people being dragged out of the Capitol building like spoiled little 4 year olds who didn't get their way, despite the fact that even now Democrat Governors all around America are starting to realize the need for budget cuts.
Listen, I am pissed towards Republicans too. I myself am more of a Libertarian-Conservative, and Republicans need to buck up on a lot of things in order for people to take them serious again. But it is absolutely farcicle how people like you lump a few crazies into the movement as a whole. In my opinion, the TEA party is the best movement to have happened to our country in a long time. Why? Because it awakened a shit load of people up about how we need to start controlling the ridiculous ways in which we over spend, and over bloat our Government.
How funny you left wingers have no gripes hating on the military, and questioning it on "killing unarmed civilians", and yet you believe the Government can run our health care system, among everything else competently and effectively, without the loss of rights, privileges or previous quality of care we have seen before.
Red team vs. Blue team. Thanks for the demonstration, guys!
The NPR de-funding was for excellent cause. You had the President of the news organization even caught in a video saying they could do without "federal funding", and by the way Justin, I do NOT want my taxes going to some bigoted, pro- Muslim Extremest news group that sympathizes with groups like the Muslim Brotherhood that treat women like cattle and ultimately believe in Sharia law for the world. And then have the nerve to turn around and say a whole bunch of people in the TEA party are "racists" blah blah blah.
Serioulsy do you even listen to NPR or do you just drink the conservative kool-aid? You're so far off your nut its not even funny.
What he said was, they should of cut out federal funds from their budget a long time ago. That's a far cry from "can't do without". The instability of "will the republicans cut funding or not" is a headache and it was his view they should of been self sufficient so they didn't have to worry about their budget. But if you have it on tape I'd like to see it.
Personally I would rather keep the public money flowing to NPR, it provides a certain level of counter balance to the corporate sponsors who might want to otherwise influence programming.
Bigoted? Pro Muslim? So because they talk opening about issues and pursue different points of view and put truth above slanted political views NPR is bigoted and pro Muslim? How is pro Muslim even a bad thing? I guess if you believe that all Muslims are dirty terrorists then that might be a bad thing? But just because NPR has actual fact based reporting doesn't mean they're "dirty sympathizers". That's fuckin crazy talk.
Do you even know much of anything about the Muslim Brotherhood or are you just lumping them in with the rest of those dirty Arab "terrorists?". I'm not a big fan of the Muslim Brotherhood but they aren't Taliban if that's what you're thinking? They believe in separation of church and state but believe that Islam should guide their politicians and help them make decisions...
Since its inception in 1928 the movement has officially opposed violent means to achieve its goals. They are pretty much just like any bible thumping beltway conservative politician and in some ways much more secular. They where oppressed and labeled terrorists because they challenged a dictatorship. Anyone who spoke out under Mubarak was treated the same way.
Out of all the parties floating around in the Arab world they're threat level is so incredibly low you would be an idiot to pay much attention to them while ignoring others, like Hamas... They're not even in the same league, or on the same planet...
"We believe that the political reform is the true and natural gateway for all other kinds of reform. We have announced our acceptance of democracy that acknowledges political pluralism, the peaceful rotation of power and the fact that the nation is the source of all powers. As we see it, political reform includes the termination of the state of emergency, restoring public freedoms, including the right to establish political parties, whatever their tendencies may be, and the freedom of the press, freedom of criticism and thought, freedom of peaceful demonstrations, freedom of assembly, etc. It also includes the dismantling of all exceptional courts and the annulment of all exceptional laws, establishing the independence of the judiciary, enabling the judiciary to fully and truly supervise general elections so as to ensure that they authentically express people's will, removing all obstacles that restrict the functioning of civil society organizations, etc.
Yea wow... sounds like the "lets execute political dissidents in a sports stadium every Friday before afternoon prayers". Oh but I guess that's all a cover up so they can come to power. Well then I should view conservative christians with the same light, what are they hiding... what are they really doing... OOOooOOoo... I bet they're up to something...
As for womens rights, those will come over time, the sheer number of women protesters out in the streets during the Egyptian upraising was inspirational. Yes the Muslim world has a perception problem with the way it views women, but if you think back not that far women in America where treated the same way. How long did it take from the drafting of the constitution until women where allowed to vote? It all can't happen over night as much as we would love it to.
But come on open your eyes and actually listen to more than just conservatives bashing things they don't agree with... They have a word for that you know...
So, does that guy represent a large portion of "liberals" that democrats have to tip toe around to stay in office? How many democratic polititians exonerate the teachings of Karl Marx?
What I'm saying, and it may not be true, but from my point of view both sides have a loony fringe; it just seems like the conservative fringe is gaining a majority. A politician prosthelytizing Ayn Rand scares me as much as one praising Marx.
You're a caricature JB56Blacknine. I'm almost starting to wonder if you are just some fool on here trolling the forums as a joke, spewing out nonsense, conspiracy theories and falsities.
Serioulsy do you even listen to NPR or do you just drink the conservative kool-aid? You're so far off your nut its not even funny.
wow, I agree, I can't really be involved in this discussion anymore. Baffling and frightening at the same time, I honestly hope it's just a case of the vocal minority.
edit: I'd like to add something funny, I was driving from New Jersey to Massachusetts and somewhere in Connecticut I heard a local station broadcasting Al Jazeera English - hey, at least those federal dollars weren't given to NPR!
I will do my best to respond to each of you, but let me first direct my attention to Tulkamir, who apparently believes his/her opinion is of a higher caliber then mine,(Damn Arrogant Canadians LOL) therefore it is not of a "troll-like" nature, or some other such joke. Rather, I saw this topic posted here and thought I would comment, I am not sure how or what "conspiracy" theories you can pin on me as I have never stated any. I do believe Obama was born here, does that make him a good President to me? no. Is your opinion any more righteous or valid than mine? I think not.
Mark- You misunderstood what I was saying. No, not all Muslims are Evil or bad, just like not all 20+ million otherwise responsible, patriotic Americans are not guilty for the death of a Congresswoman by one lone nut job.
Also Mark- as to the NPR thing, did you ever get wind of this story? which would make Fox News blush?
I am so proud we have these sort of *individuals* contributing to the news at the expense of the American Tax payer! what with calling people "gringo" shit you might as well say the n word...I mean what the fuck Mark, this is acceptable reporting to you from NPR?
However, it is to note that there still exists a sizeable "extremist" element that exist's in Islam. Islamic Brotherhood or not, what is going on in Egypt right now, by the Muslim Brotherhood and it's cohort's is anything but "moderate" in what they want to do with the state after Mubarik left. Is this fair to mention this, without suddenly the fact I am OFMG a racist, bigot "white wing" conservative nut job? LOL I certainly NEVER wish to see the kind of hatred, intolerance and bigotry that goes on what seems like daily in these Middle Eastern countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc etc...
Does not surprise me, but apparently some such as you are?
Have you been up to date with what is going on in Libya with the supposed "freedom" protesters and their brutal murders without mercy to forces loyal to Gadaffi? All to often, Americans have the wrong information, and this is a prime example of it.
I sure as hell want to know if Pakistan was intentionally hiding Osama Bin Laden, because if they were we sure as shit should not be giving them billions in aid. Not to mention the rest of the world.
I see alot of anti-US hatred, right here on this forum and abroad. You know what I say to that? Fine, the next time there is some world crisis let "US" pull back and sit on our hands and watch as the world burns; still points the finger at us for not doing enough. Look at History, WW1, WW2 how we liberated countries in Europe that were being oppressed by foreign tyrants and dictators, and now flash forward to the present, where somehow, after all this monetary aid in addition to other such aid, we are STILL hated regardless.
I say let them wallow in their filth, but you know what Europeans that wish us harm or hate us? Leave us the HELL alone.
I tire of the NEO CON foreign policy that is FOLLOWED by BOTH Democrats and Republicans!
You should point it out. Because I haven't seen it.
Uh, no. I know a lot of liberals, but I don't know a single one that openly hates the military. Very few hate soldiers, and if they do, they're stupid. The people who can't separate the individuals used as tools from the insanely wealthy who possess them would probably believe anything they were presented with, anyway.
And I don't think you get the healthcare debate fully. The argument is not that the government can run anything better. It's a matter of incentive.
Corporations have incentive to not take on people who have risks, or rescind people when they need care the most. Why? Because that's how they make the most money. This isn't always the case, but it's been shown to happen far more often than is acceptable.
Republicans fought Obama's healthcare proposal so thoroughly because literally, according to them, it would be so good that healthcare corporations would stop making money.
Think about that for a second. For them, what matters most always seems to be that corporations make their money. Whether they cause oil spills, electrocute soldiers in their showers, let childrens' mothers die, or remove a family from their home it does not matter. Corporations need to get their money. For them, a fascist system where corporations pay elected officials(already in place), the media spreads deceit(already in place), massive corporations experience low taxes/low risk/high reward(already in place) and individuals/middle class become poorer and poorer(already in place) is the only way for America to be.
Careful not to choke on the architect behind ObamaCare, SuperHappy. Evil corporate sponsor Mitt Romney(GASP) Republican had a great deal in shaping President Obama's Health care proposal. So no, I still think he is a RINO and a terrible contender for GOP President, but to the "fascist" Liberals that wish to force us into slavery through purchasing a product simply to breath, they can sleep better at night knowing that Insurance companies will no longer be able to deny the sick, poor and hungry, what other words should I use? their free health care.
I find it interesting your disdain of the corporations. Who do you think provides the "jobs" and what determines the employment rate? The Government which is provided at the expense of the Tax payer?
THAT must be what all of those "new" glorious jobs that TEAM OBAMA has been bragging about in Mcdonalds lately!
You know, the jobs the Left complained were such menial pathetic jobs during, say, the Bush Administration but for some reason are the last gasping breath of Obama's failed, botched Presidency.
You all are VERY good at playing the Obama song, until inflation finally rips this country in half and we are nearly forced against one another simply to buy a loaf of bread. Don't believe me? it nearly happened during the "golden years" of Carter, it CAN and WILL happen again if Democrat, or Republican we don't get this Government waste under control.
Remember my "One Nation" Comrades, we may not be physical able to "Default" into bankruptcy. But we sure as HELL can be strangulated from within by inflated prices.
What happened to your guy's memories? What happened with all of the droves of death threats, etc towards Bush, and the Nazi/Hitler depictions.
I swear to God, the next African American who runs as a Republican I am going to laugh my ass off as you Liberal hypocrites are laughed off the national stage with any "racist" criticism that is directed towards say, Herman Cain or Allen West because they did not share the same Marxist backrounds as Heir Obama.
Your lack of knowledge about foreign politics and history is stupifying, anyone who calls Obama a marxist or a socialist have absolutely no clue as to what that actually means. You should try educating yourself and see if your beliefs hold up. Obama is a capitalist just like ALL of the presidents in the history of the US.
Your lack of knowledge about foreign politics and history is stupifying, anyone who calls Obama a marxist or a socialist have absolutely no clue as to what that actually means. You should try educating yourself and see if your beliefs hold up. Obama is a capitalist just like ALL of the presidents in the history of the US.
But in all honesty, is what he is doing Capitalistic really...? the bailouts the Stimulus packages that paid off his campaign contributors among other things..?
I will do my best to respond to each of you, but let me first direct my attention to Tulkamir, who apparently believes his/her opinion is of a higher caliber then mine,(Damn Arrogant Canadians LOL) therefore it is not of a "troll-like" nature, or some other such joke. Rather, I saw this topic posted here and thought I would comment, I am not sure how or what "conspiracy" theories you can pin on me as I have never stated any. I do believe Obama was born here, does that make him a good President to me? no. Is your opinion any more righteous or valid than mine? I think not.
It's not so much that I think my opinion is of a higher value, it's that I think your opinion has lost pretty much all of its value.
The reason your opinion has become less valid in this discussion in my view is simple. You continually post about stuff you apparently know nothing about. Your arguments seem very reminiscent of an Alex Jones or glen beck rant. You manage to equate socialism to communism to Stalinism, showing you know nothing about any. You show a complete lack of knowlege of the American history in relation to Native Americans, yet insisted on commenting about it. You constantly refer to you "Liberals" without seemingly having any understanding of what liberalism entails. You basically just seem to use "Liberal" as a term for "enemy".
In short, your opinion counts as less to me because of the way it is presented. If you took time, researched all sides of the issues, organized your thoughts and opinions, and presented it in any way that seemed factual and not based on some crazed emotional response - your opinion would be every bit as valid as anyones.
It's not so much that I think my opinion is of a higher value, it's that I think your opinion has lost pretty much all of its value.
The reason your opinion has become less valid in this discussion in my view is simple. You continually post about stuff you apparently know nothing about. Your arguments seem very reminiscent of an Alex Jones or glen beck rant. You manage to equate socialism to communism to Stalinism, showing you know nothing about any. You show a complete lack of knowlege of the American history in relation to Native Americans, yet insisted on commenting about it. You constantly refer to you "Liberals" without seemingly having any understanding of what liberalism entails. You basically just seem to use "Liberal" as a term for "enemy".
In short, your opinion counts as less to me because of the way it is presented. If you took time, researched all sides of the issues, organized your thoughts and opinions, and presented it in any way that seemed factual and not based on some crazed emotional response - your opinion would be every bit as valid as anyones.
I did not have any "rant" that was not warranted by a response in the first place. I seem to recall you making false accusations about my political beliefs pages back when you said I was some kind of crazy conspiracy theorist, and holy shit, with all the jokes going on this thread none of you can take sarcasm? I took low odor's, but yet someone can post some BS thread on Obama's birth Certificate and suddenly you have some moral high ground above me?
Guess again.
Also, If I am talking such bullshit, then why don't you call me out and prove me wrong on what I am saying instead of just continuing and crying about my perceived "rants"?
I think all sides are really fucked up, it is exactly like what Tom Dunne said about "Teams", yet for some reason when a like minded Conservative opinion is presented to you, it is "extremist" and suddenly not "very nice".
Don't dish it out and expect sugar and gum drops in return.
And lastly, I don't see the term "Liberal" as enemy. After all, we are all Americans. But don't give me this that the left wasn't extremely vitriolic and hateful towards the right during the Bush years. It is extremely hypocritical, and alot of people here just seem to be more Liberal then they are Conservative,
So.. what's so bad about communism and socialism?
Is it bad because it's different from a democracy and you disagree with it simply because of that? Because that reminds me of children arguing about which toy is better.
I'd figure the countries that are doing well enough with other forms of rule finds democracy just as weird, as it's probably something you become accustomed too over time.
Norway for instance is pretty socialist in some ways, but it's also democratic and a monarchy too. Three different things and we're still voted the best country to live in and all that jazz.
I wonder if it's not the type of rule a country has that makes it bad, but rather the perception of how it works by the avarage human.
Also:
I'd rather go for the politcal philosophy that ensures people have their rights (which rights would have to be grounded in logic and how potentially destructive they could be) and that they all help eachother while still being able to look out for oneself.
Honestly, if you're in this world and the only thing you can think of is how you "are right", and that people should be prohibited from doing something completely personal simply because the idea of it goes against yours; I wouldn't even call you human, as you'd be an oppressor of our more positive progress as a species.
And lastly, I don't see the term "Liberal" as enemy. After all, we are all Americans. But don't give me this that the left wasn't extremely vitriolic and hateful towards the right during the Bush years. It is extremely hypocritical, and alot of people here just seem to be more Liberal then they are Conservative,
Bush:Took a zero deficit and showered the rich in tax breaks
Created unfunded drug benefit programs
Raided social security and medicare
Purposed privatizing Social Security, let people gamble it in the stock market, yea because that wasn't about to melt down...
Ignored critical intelligence about 9/11
Created secret prisons, then accidently let Gitmo slip in a press conference.
Spied on American citizens
Illegally wire tapped conversations
Strong armed communication companies into illegally giving up personal information
Stripped away our personal freedoms (patriot act)
Aided Dick Chaney in grabbing a crazy amount of power away from congress by inserting the executive branch into the legislative branch
Unrepentantly lied about Iraq
Kicked off two wars thinking they would be wrapped up before he was gone, but here we are... still spending...
Oversaw the biggest financial crisis amid constant warning signs from a wide array of sources.
Created TARP and bailed out wall Street.
Even republicans and conservatives agree Bush was a disaster. All the vitriol he got was because he blew call after call, made one bad decision after another.
That's only 25% of the BS he pulled... Conservatives at the time "He's president, we should hug him..." This just after they finished trying to crucify Clinton for playing it loose. Oh I see, sleep around like every politician does and that's grounds to be impeached but fuck up as bad as Bush did and you can skate scott free. Yea that won't piss anyone off.
Obama: Was born and is cleaning up Bushes mess despite conservatives fighting him the entire way because a recovery on his watch would be political disaster.
Corporate America isn't hiring like they should because there isn't a pro-deregulation president in the white house, punish people for thinking about regulating, free markets baby! Privatize the profits, socialize the losses! If you truly believed in free markets there would be a lot more bankers not ranking in the bonuses right now, but out of a job...
You didn't get why people where pissed off at Bush because you where to busy stuck in kitty cat candy cane world conservative media. "never mind the listing of the ship and the water around your ankles the ship is fine, here put this blind fold on"
Now ask yourself which companies control the oil and gas companies and which way do they lean politically? Would raising gas prices hurt the recovery? huh yes it would? Which party has sworn to fight Obama as if he was Hitler reincarnated? huh... It's like they want to punish Americans for ever drinking anything but their kool aid.
Good arguments... All I hear from conservatives is "Pin Bush's mistakes on Obama, then when people point the finger at Bush, say oh no can't Blame him... and then complain about how Obama isn't American".
Yea no one had a right to hate on Bush... He was fan-fucking-tastic, best president ever...
Erik, go tell the members of both the french Socialist and Communist parties that they are the one and the same. Its ought to be entertaining hehe.
To put it simply : the meaning of such controversial words evolve over time, and are quite different from one country to another. So when I hear such witch hunt debates (SOCIALISM IS EVIL! NAZIS HAVE IT IN THEIR NAME!!) it seriously makes me laugh, and shows a very limited world view.
Public health care is communist by nature (re-distribution of a common pool), and guess what, it totally works alongside a modern economical system. Shock! Horror!
Keynesian economics is a disease that has crippled the west and is what has caused this recession.
If you woke up on Jan 11th 2009 and believe the tar and feather revisionist history Fox news has been slinging for the past 2 years. You're totally right its all Obama's fault...
You guys are blind and crazy... I'm going to go make art.
See, not everything is fully reimbursed, but the most common needs are. And then, even some private hospitals under certain agreements with the public healthcare system can also be part of it so that their patients benefits from the paid treatments. ("clinique priv
bullshit. I just explained what it is. Communism can be identified as socialist policies taken to the extreme. They are basically still founded upon the same ideology.
Also if public health care is so great why have millions of Canadians been flocking over to the US for years for their non socialized health care? Keynesian economics is a disease that has crippled the west and is what has caused this recession.
Wait is there even an idea that public healthcare is bad?
I thought that taking part of taxes and using it to fund free/much cheaper healthcare to the public was an excellent idea. People don't have to be afraid about going to a doctor in fear of loosing money.
no its not Obamas fault. but hes not doing anything to reverse the damage. All those things you listed are being continued and exasperated by the Obama admin.
And they would of magically disapeared if a republican would of gotten in the white house? Doubt it. He's tried to shut down gitmo, blocked by republicans. He's drawing down troops and forcing republicans to accept military cuts to things like 2nd engines we never needed but because it was big business we pass out duel contracts, brilliant.
Now ask yourself this, conservatives are all over the president to get his big nose out of their affairs and let the free markets run wild, but then lamb baste him for not strong arming (typically republican establishments) into hiring more workers... Ahh good... we'll screw ya if you do and screw ya if you don't.
Now ask yourself this, which party has a vested interest is seeing the economy not budge and if at all possible run backwards? Just to hand the current administration a defeat at all costs.
if we're so crazy then explain to me the differences between their policies and how giving tax payer money to the banks that CREATED the financial crash in the first place are somehow going to fix things.
Well... its not like Obama woke up and said hey "lets give a bunch of tax payer money to wall street" that should fuck things up. There was a 3 year crisis that preceded the crash and bail out. You'll notice that it all hit the fan the last year of the Bush administration. I know everyone thinks Obama can walk on water but to blow the calls that Bush did for 3 years before he's even in the Oval office... that is magical...
It's people that didn't pay attention for 8 years then suddenly woke up and asked the wrong people what happened that are really dangerous. They're running around like they have a head full of facts when it's all been billed as "entertainment" not news.
The only thing I would fault Obama with doing is pretending like Bush never happened and that he never racked up a huge debt or started two wars when he pushed through Healthcare. Ok two things, he tried to compromise with republicans on healthcare and all it did was bloat the bill up to giant proportions and water it down to nothing. Most of the controversial parts of the healthcare bill where put in to get republicans to go along with it. The mandate? Put in so the republicans and the healthcare companies would go along.
We hear, repeal, repeal repeal and for a long time there was no plan to replace it. Repeal it if you can put something better on the table. Ryan's Plan, is total garbage especially for my generation who is stuck footing the bill for the older generation, and gets none of the benefits we're paying in for. Garbage. So we're still waiting for a good option that would properly replace it with something better...
is it free then if you have to pay for it with tax money? what you end up with is a state run monopoly that is inefficient and inferior because they have no incentive to compete and put out a better product. what is does is destroy the competition, and give them power to charge whatever they want (thru tax dollars) much in the same way monopolies can run up the price on consumers since there is no fear of a cheaper, better alternative.
Wow, odd. Because that is completely not the case here. Private clinics are more expensive than the public ones, and I've yet to read news where it turned out the tax financed health care netted malpractice and shitty service. Rather the opposite.
Maybe the incentive is: Offer the best possible healthcare to ensure a happy and healthy population? Or is it impossible that something can be that "good"?
Heck, one of our ISPs pretty much has a massive monopoly on all the internet centrals in this country, cables for phones, internet and all that.
Yet they don't have caps, they are competitive with prices compared to their competitors (who use their own centrals or borrow from the other ISP)
Maybe our culture is just more inclined towards being fair and NICER to it's population than other parts of the world.
What do you mean, "charge whatever they want" ? The health care monthly contribution is agreed on regularly and always very clearly stated on the payrolls of any country using it. It's such a tiny thing to pay really!
Replies
So let's punish the successful,(why the unemployment is so high) and send 30k more troops into a war started by Bush? How long does a mess like that take? 4 more so fair is fair?
It is convenient to note from your perspective how "crazy" the other side is, especially when the other side is talking about cutting spending/Government services which is somehow "extreme".
laughably, how often Government shutdowns happen and "your side" (Go team..?) cried like it would be the end of the world.
Even Democrat Governors are now having to deal with cutting Government services. Are they "Extreme" too?
I know you have to be born in the US to run for president, it just seems you think place of birth has any holding on how you run a country.
Hey Skamberin, I think we just misunderstood each other. I was talking about how it is in the US Constitution about natural born citizens are only able to run for President.
My point was how some people say they "don't care".
Do you see the slippery slope?
It's against the constitution of course.
What I think others mean though (those who say they "don't care") is that what piece of land you were born on doesn't define your abilities as a leader, it's how you're raised.
And while you personally are not happy with Obama as a president, he would probably not have run the country differently had he been born in Kenya, Pakistan, Iran or anywhere else, it's where he was raised and spent the majority of his time growing up that matters.
(it being unconstitutional notwithstanding)
Which is also why I think it's odd that some people are so up in arms about this, is it simply because they don't like him? Or are they just extremely law abiding citizens out to make sure everything is being done properly?
OCR would create an index, but using the 'Optimize Scanned PDF' function does not. It basically just does a bad autotrace (from what I can see after trying it on my own birth certificate) then slaps the traced vector elements into a new layer leaving other pieces and bits it couldn't trace in the other layers. End result is something that looks just like what was released.
Nope, there is no slippery slope. Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. http://hw.libsyn.com/p/e/6/1/e61860f7cb2892d2/SGU5x52011-01-26.mp3?sid=4fbfdb33e75858ef83383d69efdff6ba&l_sid=29897&l_eid=&l_mid=2430034
Not sure I agree with this.
It's because they don't like him. Politics in America has become so partisan and uncompromising that for many people it's essentially Red team vs. Blue team. If you've decided to throw your lot in with the Red team, you oppose every single Blue candidate and policy, and you root for the Red team to counter them in any way possible. Obama is the front man for the Blue Team, and so you want him torn down anyway possible. If believing (or acting as if you believe) that Obama was not eligible when he was elected has even a razor thin hope of tearing him down, you believe it because that would be an historic victory for the Red team.
Best of all, hating the Blue team gives you and fellow Red teamers something to talk about and rally around, just like rooting for a professional sports club. This is the entire reason for Fox News, they're like ESPN for the Red team. The Blue team has similar team members who act just the same way, but they're generally not as obnoxious about it.
Moderate, independent politics are almost a fairy tale in America. If you're a politician and you want to be elected to office on a national level, you either run with the Red team or with the Blue team. There's virtually no middle ground, and what does remain seems to shrink a little more each year.
http://youtu.be/3cLxQ4B23_g
I honestly want a government that will raise taxes and sensibly cut spending. Right now we've got alot of defecate hawks that want to cut programs based on politics, not what's good for the country.
Take the NPR defunding for instance, it was done solely to punish something the conservatives disagree with, it didn't save Tax payers one red cent - the money still goes to stations, it just bars them from spending it on NPR programming. So no money saved and alot of small stations might shut down - bravo.
Ah yes, I remember "those" kinds of crazies.
Kinda of like the same irresponsible, sickening left winged media news reporters that lumped 20+ million Americans for the sole actions of a lone nut job during the Giffords shootings, which were later proven to have shown that he did not follow politics and was not for one way or the other, nevermind the irresponsible media that cashed in on that chance!
Of course there are "crazies" in the TEA party Justin. Have you seen some of the protests from the "one nation rally" from the left wingers all there promoting Communism and Socialism?
[ame]
It is so touching how much those people honored the Red Soviet flag- under how many millions suffered and died under the brutal reign of Joseph Stalin, and these individuals believe that Socialism and Communism is the answer? Despite it's failings the world over time and time again? Glad to see those "extremist's" right in the open from the left!
The NPR de-funding was for excellent cause. You had the President of the news organization even caught in a video saying they could do without "federal funding", and by the way Justin, I do NOT want my taxes going to some bigoted, pro- Muslim Extremest news group that sympathizes with groups like the Muslim Brotherhood that treat women like cattle and ultimately believe in Sharia law for the world. And then have the nerve to turn around and say a whole bunch of people in the TEA party are "racists" blah blah blah.
That is what is so hilarious about the media and it's ridiculous bias this entire time. I can't tell you how many radical left wing protests, idiots and mush heads during Bush, and hell even now during Obama. Just take a look at the protests in Wisconsin, people being dragged out of the Capitol building like spoiled little 4 year olds who didn't get their way, despite the fact that even now Democrat Governors all around America are starting to realize the need for budget cuts. Thus vindicating the TEA party candidates who got in to power last November to curb Government's growth.
Listen, I am pissed towards Republicans too. I myself am more of a Libertarian-Conservative, and Republicans need to buck up on a lot of things in order for people to take them serious again. But it is absolutely farcical how people like you lump a few crazies into the movement as a whole. In my opinion, the TEA party is the best movement to have happened to our country in a long time. Why? Because it awakened a shit load of people up about how we need to start controlling the ridiculous ways in which we over spend, and over bloat our Government.
How funny you left wingers have no gripes hating on the military, and questioning it on "killing unarmed civilians", and yet you believe the Government can run our health care system, among everything else competently and effectively, without the loss of rights, privileges or previous quality of care we have seen before.
AND....
Red team vs. Blue team. Thanks for the demonstration, guys!
I hate to cross pollinate threads but I can't argue with a guy that thought the US treats native Americans with respect - he's fully indoctrinated.
We'll see how vindicated people feel come August 2nd
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/professor-fired-after-calling-911-victims-little-eichmanns.html
What he said was, they should of cut out federal funds from their budget a long time ago. That's a far cry from "can't do without". The instability of "will the republicans cut funding or not" is a headache and it was his view they should of been self sufficient so they didn't have to worry about their budget. But if you have it on tape I'd like to see it.
Personally I would rather keep the public money flowing to NPR, it provides a certain level of counter balance to the corporate sponsors who might want to otherwise influence programming.
Bigoted? Pro Muslim? So because they talk opening about issues and pursue different points of view and put truth above slanted political views NPR is bigoted and pro Muslim? How is pro Muslim even a bad thing? I guess if you believe that all Muslims are dirty terrorists then that might be a bad thing? But just because NPR has actual fact based reporting doesn't mean they're "dirty sympathizers". That's fuckin crazy talk.
Do you even know much of anything about the Muslim Brotherhood or are you just lumping them in with the rest of those dirty Arab "terrorists?". I'm not a big fan of the Muslim Brotherhood but they aren't Taliban if that's what you're thinking? They believe in separation of church and state but believe that Islam should guide their politicians and help them make decisions...
Since its inception in 1928 the movement has officially opposed violent means to achieve its goals. They are pretty much just like any bible thumping beltway conservative politician and in some ways much more secular. They where oppressed and labeled terrorists because they challenged a dictatorship. Anyone who spoke out under Mubarak was treated the same way.
Out of all the parties floating around in the Arab world they're threat level is so incredibly low you would be an idiot to pay much attention to them while ignoring others, like Hamas... They're not even in the same league, or on the same planet...
Yea wow... sounds like the "lets execute political dissidents in a sports stadium every Friday before afternoon prayers". Oh but I guess that's all a cover up so they can come to power. Well then I should view conservative christians with the same light, what are they hiding... what are they really doing... OOOooOOoo... I bet they're up to something...
As for womens rights, those will come over time, the sheer number of women protesters out in the streets during the Egyptian upraising was inspirational. Yes the Muslim world has a perception problem with the way it views women, but if you think back not that far women in America where treated the same way. How long did it take from the drafting of the constitution until women where allowed to vote? It all can't happen over night as much as we would love it to.
But come on open your eyes and actually listen to more than just conservatives bashing things they don't agree with... They have a word for that you know...
What I'm saying, and it may not be true, but from my point of view both sides have a loony fringe; it just seems like the conservative fringe is gaining a majority. A politician prosthelytizing Ayn Rand scares me as much as one praising Marx.
You're a caricature JB56Blacknine. I'm almost starting to wonder if you are just some fool on here trolling the forums as a joke, spewing out nonsense, conspiracy theories and falsities.
wow, I agree, I can't really be involved in this discussion anymore. Baffling and frightening at the same time, I honestly hope it's just a case of the vocal minority.
edit: I'd like to add something funny, I was driving from New Jersey to Massachusetts and somewhere in Connecticut I heard a local station broadcasting Al Jazeera English - hey, at least those federal dollars weren't given to NPR!
I will do my best to respond to each of you, but let me first direct my attention to Tulkamir, who apparently believes his/her opinion is of a higher caliber then mine,(Damn Arrogant Canadians LOL) therefore it is not of a "troll-like" nature, or some other such joke. Rather, I saw this topic posted here and thought I would comment, I am not sure how or what "conspiracy" theories you can pin on me as I have never stated any. I do believe Obama was born here, does that make him a good President to me? no. Is your opinion any more righteous or valid than mine? I think not.
Mark- You misunderstood what I was saying. No, not all Muslims are Evil or bad, just like not all 20+ million otherwise responsible, patriotic Americans are not guilty for the death of a Congresswoman by one lone nut job.
Also Mark- as to the NPR thing, did you ever get wind of this story? which would make Fox News blush?
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/12/132865098/in-tucson-a-sigh-of-relief-from-latino-community
I am so proud we have these sort of *individuals* contributing to the news at the expense of the American Tax payer! what with calling people "gringo" shit you might as well say the n word...I mean what the fuck Mark, this is acceptable reporting to you from NPR?
However, it is to note that there still exists a sizeable "extremist" element that exist's in Islam. Islamic Brotherhood or not, what is going on in Egypt right now, by the Muslim Brotherhood and it's cohort's is anything but "moderate" in what they want to do with the state after Mubarik left. Is this fair to mention this, without suddenly the fact I am OFMG a racist, bigot "white wing" conservative nut job? LOL I certainly NEVER wish to see the kind of hatred, intolerance and bigotry that goes on what seems like daily in these Middle Eastern countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc etc...
http://www.qando.net/?p=10763
Does not surprise me, but apparently some such as you are?
Have you been up to date with what is going on in Libya with the supposed "freedom" protesters and their brutal murders without mercy to forces loyal to Gadaffi? All to often, Americans have the wrong information, and this is a prime example of it.
I sure as hell want to know if Pakistan was intentionally hiding Osama Bin Laden, because if they were we sure as shit should not be giving them billions in aid. Not to mention the rest of the world.
I see alot of anti-US hatred, right here on this forum and abroad. You know what I say to that? Fine, the next time there is some world crisis let "US" pull back and sit on our hands and watch as the world burns; still points the finger at us for not doing enough. Look at History, WW1, WW2 how we liberated countries in Europe that were being oppressed by foreign tyrants and dictators, and now flash forward to the present, where somehow, after all this monetary aid in addition to other such aid, we are STILL hated regardless.
I say let them wallow in their filth, but you know what Europeans that wish us harm or hate us? Leave us the HELL alone.
I tire of the NEO CON foreign policy that is FOLLOWED by BOTH Democrats and Republicans!
Careful not to choke on the architect behind ObamaCare, SuperHappy. Evil corporate sponsor Mitt Romney(GASP) Republican had a great deal in shaping President Obama's Health care proposal. So no, I still think he is a RINO and a terrible contender for GOP President, but to the "fascist" Liberals that wish to force us into slavery through purchasing a product simply to breath, they can sleep better at night knowing that Insurance companies will no longer be able to deny the sick, poor and hungry, what other words should I use? their free health care.
I find it interesting your disdain of the corporations. Who do you think provides the "jobs" and what determines the employment rate? The Government which is provided at the expense of the Tax payer?
THAT must be what all of those "new" glorious jobs that TEAM OBAMA has been bragging about in Mcdonalds lately!
You know, the jobs the Left complained were such menial pathetic jobs during, say, the Bush Administration but for some reason are the last gasping breath of Obama's failed, botched Presidency.
http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2011/05/06/obama-boom-244000-jobs-created-but-unemployment-rises-to-9/
You all are VERY good at playing the Obama song, until inflation finally rips this country in half and we are nearly forced against one another simply to buy a loaf of bread. Don't believe me? it nearly happened during the "golden years" of Carter, it CAN and WILL happen again if Democrat, or Republican we don't get this Government waste under control.
Remember my "One Nation" Comrades, we may not be physical able to "Default" into bankruptcy. But we sure as HELL can be strangulated from within by inflated prices.
Gas anyone?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/quantitative-easing-end-economy-test_n_847804.html
Liberal Media bias:
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621
http://www.mrc.org/public/default.aspx
What happened to your guy's memories? What happened with all of the droves of death threats, etc towards Bush, and the Nazi/Hitler depictions.
I swear to God, the next African American who runs as a Republican I am going to laugh my ass off as you Liberal hypocrites are laughed off the national stage with any "racist" criticism that is directed towards say, Herman Cain or Allen West because they did not share the same Marxist backrounds as Heir Obama.
Rather , I'd love to see Allen West run for President. Alan Keyes lost last time, but they are both my take ANY day over Obama.
I wonder if what the REAL problem is is people just HATE Black Conservatives?
More NPR garbage:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/03/10/134388981/npr-ceo-vivian-schiller-resigns
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576190344232339766.html
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/facetious
My pleasure.
But in all honesty, is what he is doing Capitalistic really...? the bailouts the Stimulus packages that paid off his campaign contributors among other things..?
It's not so much that I think my opinion is of a higher value, it's that I think your opinion has lost pretty much all of its value.
The reason your opinion has become less valid in this discussion in my view is simple. You continually post about stuff you apparently know nothing about. Your arguments seem very reminiscent of an Alex Jones or glen beck rant. You manage to equate socialism to communism to Stalinism, showing you know nothing about any. You show a complete lack of knowlege of the American history in relation to Native Americans, yet insisted on commenting about it. You constantly refer to you "Liberals" without seemingly having any understanding of what liberalism entails. You basically just seem to use "Liberal" as a term for "enemy".
In short, your opinion counts as less to me because of the way it is presented. If you took time, researched all sides of the issues, organized your thoughts and opinions, and presented it in any way that seemed factual and not based on some crazed emotional response - your opinion would be every bit as valid as anyones.
I did not have any "rant" that was not warranted by a response in the first place. I seem to recall you making false accusations about my political beliefs pages back when you said I was some kind of crazy conspiracy theorist, and holy shit, with all the jokes going on this thread none of you can take sarcasm? I took low odor's, but yet someone can post some BS thread on Obama's birth Certificate and suddenly you have some moral high ground above me?
Guess again.
Also, If I am talking such bullshit, then why don't you call me out and prove me wrong on what I am saying instead of just continuing and crying about my perceived "rants"?
I think all sides are really fucked up, it is exactly like what Tom Dunne said about "Teams", yet for some reason when a like minded Conservative opinion is presented to you, it is "extremist" and suddenly not "very nice".
Don't dish it out and expect sugar and gum drops in return.
And lastly, I don't see the term "Liberal" as enemy. After all, we are all Americans. But don't give me this that the left wasn't extremely vitriolic and hateful towards the right during the Bush years. It is extremely hypocritical, and alot of people here just seem to be more Liberal then they are Conservative,
Is it bad because it's different from a democracy and you disagree with it simply because of that? Because that reminds me of children arguing about which toy is better.
I'd figure the countries that are doing well enough with other forms of rule finds democracy just as weird, as it's probably something you become accustomed too over time.
Norway for instance is pretty socialist in some ways, but it's also democratic and a monarchy too. Three different things and we're still voted the best country to live in and all that jazz.
I wonder if it's not the type of rule a country has that makes it bad, but rather the perception of how it works by the avarage human.
Also:
I'd rather go for the politcal philosophy that ensures people have their rights (which rights would have to be grounded in logic and how potentially destructive they could be) and that they all help eachother while still being able to look out for oneself.
Honestly, if you're in this world and the only thing you can think of is how you "are right", and that people should be prohibited from doing something completely personal simply because the idea of it goes against yours; I wouldn't even call you human, as you'd be an oppressor of our more positive progress as a species.
Bush:Took a zero deficit and showered the rich in tax breaks
Created unfunded drug benefit programs
Raided social security and medicare
Purposed privatizing Social Security, let people gamble it in the stock market, yea because that wasn't about to melt down...
Ignored critical intelligence about 9/11
Created secret prisons, then accidently let Gitmo slip in a press conference.
Spied on American citizens
Illegally wire tapped conversations
Strong armed communication companies into illegally giving up personal information
Stripped away our personal freedoms (patriot act)
Aided Dick Chaney in grabbing a crazy amount of power away from congress by inserting the executive branch into the legislative branch
Unrepentantly lied about Iraq
Kicked off two wars thinking they would be wrapped up before he was gone, but here we are... still spending...
Oversaw the biggest financial crisis amid constant warning signs from a wide array of sources.
Created TARP and bailed out wall Street.
Even republicans and conservatives agree Bush was a disaster. All the vitriol he got was because he blew call after call, made one bad decision after another.
That's only 25% of the BS he pulled... Conservatives at the time "He's president, we should hug him..." This just after they finished trying to crucify Clinton for playing it loose. Oh I see, sleep around like every politician does and that's grounds to be impeached but fuck up as bad as Bush did and you can skate scott free. Yea that won't piss anyone off.
Obama: Was born and is cleaning up Bushes mess despite conservatives fighting him the entire way because a recovery on his watch would be political disaster.
Corporate America isn't hiring like they should because there isn't a pro-deregulation president in the white house, punish people for thinking about regulating, free markets baby! Privatize the profits, socialize the losses! If you truly believed in free markets there would be a lot more bankers not ranking in the bonuses right now, but out of a job...
You didn't get why people where pissed off at Bush because you where to busy stuck in kitty cat candy cane world conservative media. "never mind the listing of the ship and the water around your ankles the ship is fine, here put this blind fold on"
Now ask yourself which companies control the oil and gas companies and which way do they lean politically? Would raising gas prices hurt the recovery? huh yes it would? Which party has sworn to fight Obama as if he was Hitler reincarnated? huh... It's like they want to punish Americans for ever drinking anything but their kool aid.
Good arguments... All I hear from conservatives is "Pin Bush's mistakes on Obama, then when people point the finger at Bush, say oh no can't Blame him... and then complain about how Obama isn't American".
Yea no one had a right to hate on Bush... He was fan-fucking-tastic, best president ever...
To put it simply : the meaning of such controversial words evolve over time, and are quite different from one country to another. So when I hear such witch hunt debates (SOCIALISM IS EVIL! NAZIS HAVE IT IN THEIR NAME!!) it seriously makes me laugh, and shows a very limited world view.
Public health care is communist by nature (re-distribution of a common pool), and guess what, it totally works alongside a modern economical system. Shock! Horror!
You guys are blind and crazy... I'm going to go make art.
http://www.directmutuelle.fr/secu_taux.htm
See, not everything is fully reimbursed, but the most common needs are. And then, even some private hospitals under certain agreements with the public healthcare system can also be part of it so that their patients benefits from the paid treatments. ("clinique priv
Wait is there even an idea that public healthcare is bad?
I thought that taking part of taxes and using it to fund free/much cheaper healthcare to the public was an excellent idea. People don't have to be afraid about going to a doctor in fear of loosing money.
Now ask yourself this, conservatives are all over the president to get his big nose out of their affairs and let the free markets run wild, but then lamb baste him for not strong arming (typically republican establishments) into hiring more workers... Ahh good... we'll screw ya if you do and screw ya if you don't.
Now ask yourself this, which party has a vested interest is seeing the economy not budge and if at all possible run backwards? Just to hand the current administration a defeat at all costs.
Well... its not like Obama woke up and said hey "lets give a bunch of tax payer money to wall street" that should fuck things up. There was a 3 year crisis that preceded the crash and bail out. You'll notice that it all hit the fan the last year of the Bush administration. I know everyone thinks Obama can walk on water but to blow the calls that Bush did for 3 years before he's even in the Oval office... that is magical...
It's people that didn't pay attention for 8 years then suddenly woke up and asked the wrong people what happened that are really dangerous. They're running around like they have a head full of facts when it's all been billed as "entertainment" not news.
The only thing I would fault Obama with doing is pretending like Bush never happened and that he never racked up a huge debt or started two wars when he pushed through Healthcare. Ok two things, he tried to compromise with republicans on healthcare and all it did was bloat the bill up to giant proportions and water it down to nothing. Most of the controversial parts of the healthcare bill where put in to get republicans to go along with it. The mandate? Put in so the republicans and the healthcare companies would go along.
We hear, repeal, repeal repeal and for a long time there was no plan to replace it. Repeal it if you can put something better on the table. Ryan's Plan, is total garbage especially for my generation who is stuck footing the bill for the older generation, and gets none of the benefits we're paying in for. Garbage. So we're still waiting for a good option that would properly replace it with something better...
Wow, odd. Because that is completely not the case here. Private clinics are more expensive than the public ones, and I've yet to read news where it turned out the tax financed health care netted malpractice and shitty service. Rather the opposite.
Maybe the incentive is: Offer the best possible healthcare to ensure a happy and healthy population? Or is it impossible that something can be that "good"?
Heck, one of our ISPs pretty much has a massive monopoly on all the internet centrals in this country, cables for phones, internet and all that.
Yet they don't have caps, they are competitive with prices compared to their competitors (who use their own centrals or borrow from the other ISP)
Maybe our culture is just more inclined towards being fair and NICER to it's population than other parts of the world.
http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/35544604.png
So you are saying that paying 12E per month to get free healthcare, and 109E a month to later get free retirement money ... is a bad thing ???