Ths sculpted-cloth killer app?
polycounter lvl 10
Not meant for game art use, but it's interesting tech that could be adapted for such. I wish for a cloth sim that recognizes overlapping geo so for example hard armor on cloth with folds and creases that reflect that.
$99 for non commercial, otherwise $699.
http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/Marvelous/Default.aspxMarvelous Designer can import any COLLADA and OBJ files from most of 3D modeling tools such as 3DS Max, Maya, SoftImage, Poser, Daz Studio, Vue and Modo. And avatar and cloth files can be exported in OBJ format.
http://vimeo.com/16160128
Replies
the catch with this approach would be that you'd have to create and sew the clothes like physical ones and know your simulation (and it's limitations) a fair bit. that is a specialist role in movie studios (just like hair/fur grooming) AFAIK.
IMO the current process is very slow already for creating high-spec game work.
i could see it making sense if we'd be able to have live cloth sim ingame however. looks like it might be just a few years of hardware and tool development away still before you have to take tailoring classes.
http://www.syflex.biz/
[ame]
Yep.
ROFL
It's only cheating if you get caught!
I just see it as a possible time saving tool like uv master, mocap, photo sourced textures, 3d painting.
Nobody pays extra for being a process purist anyway.
[image rendered in Octane]
1. Have a few sliders choosing which genre you want (Sci-fi, Fantasy, Post-Apocalyptic, etc).
2. Press Generate button.
3. Profit.
I just feel like there are more and more things these days, that make things that used to seen as impressive, only make that talent obsolete. Sort of. Of course, such is the way of things, and we need to step up our game with the advances of technology. But still, I'll miss the old days! (Ok, I admit, I'll take quad modelling over NURBS anyday)
Haha, I have that exact hoodie.
profit from it yourself, if everyone in history of mankind would have thought this way we would still be sitting in caves, hoping for a lightning making some fire so we don't have to freeze to death.
Its just a tool, no one forces anyone to use it, but to me its an instant buy when its out as it saves a lot of time on certain parts of my pipeline.
i don't see talent becoming obsolete, in the end it will come down to pure creativity of the person in question. The design element will always stay.
And there will also always be non realistic games that require you to manually model/sculpt/paint the clothes anyway.
Nice tool btw
Using pre-defined cloth generators doesn't make you more or less of an artist. You are as some have been saying, just getting the "JOB" done sooner.
If you were a true artist, you would not be working for "profit" under a contract, or for the sake of "seeking" work. You would just simply "Create it" because you want to with no expectations revolving an outcome of your finished piece. Because you made it, not about "how" you made it. That's the genuine difference.
I could see this being very useful in any production where you need to create tons of alternatives outfits for characters, something like Asssassin's Creed, GTA or an MMO.
We're all going to have to start buying books on costume design.
That's just BS. You should find a better studio if this is how you feel going to work each day.
I know for me, I get paid so that the studio has access to all the knowledge I gained over time (which granted, is still not much in the grand scheme of things). Anyone, even my kid brother, can be taught to operate zBrush like a monkey. But can he sculpt anatomy? Is he aware of even the most basic design principles? No.
If in some distant future there will be a program that allows you to hit a 'Generate Character' button, the result of that will be that everything will look the same. Which would then mean that the people who can take that, and make something interesting out of it will be highly sought after.
The artist can take the mundane and make some extraordinary with it. The viewer knows that they're looking at something special, and are willing to pay for that.
In an ideal Star-Trek Post-Scarcity world where everyone has food replicators and free accommodations on the Enterprise that would be the case. But for now, there's still money out there. And some people are willing to spend it on cool things.
We're the people who make cool things.
Though I don't think either max or maya have realtime pattern updating features like was mentioned.
Still. This has been around.
That may be very true, there just might be a do it all button. But at the end of the day, everyone is looking for something that doesn't take deep logic to understand the "steps" of creation, instead just "create it" the way you see it as though you were holding the paint brush to the canvas. Meanwhile, most games I]mainly shooters[/I all look and play the same.
This in the end of things still proves my idea about being a slave. You are not creating something original, you are reporting for a duty to someone higher up than you that dictates wether what You create makes it into the end picture or not. Not You who decides otherwise.
At the end of all said, it's not a bad thing. Its just something to realize it really stands as a positive to know some real genius's help make a different medium from 2D easier under what confined deadlines we all work under. Which become less of a hassle to fuss to each other over.
That we're working within a set of parameters doesn't matter any more so than Michaelangelo was "limited" by religion when he made David. You can just substitute the word limited with inspired.
I could have just gotten a job at a bank and done 3D on the side for fun. Wear a beret and talk about what the color blue sounds like. But I chose video-games because of the subject matter and the collaborative nature of it. There isn't any one person who calls the shot, it's a collaboration of individuals, yourself included.
Or maybe that's not the way it is for you, I don't know.
I think it looks like a nifty tool. Somtimes I like the idea of having a separate program that was totally designed for a single purpose. Plus I really hate doing cloth...
I know someone who thinks like that. He absolutely hates being subservient to other people and would prefer never having to work any kind of job (I had to drill through his logic to get to that admission, forcing him to realize the problem with it).
Look, you don't have to do this for a living. You can drive a garbage truck and keep it a hobby. Nobody will care. But don't look down on other people and say they aren't artists just because they want to get paid doing a job they like. Call it selling out if you want - but they aren't slaves.
There was a program like that once. It was a plugin for Max called FXR Creature Creator - and yes, everything looked the same.
You're still using your own talent as an artist to create the assets, regardless of what it is you are creating. It's not like some other guy is leading you through every single step throughout the whole process.
My opinions are in no way used to express what job I, or anyone has. Rather than the mental condition of surrounding ones thoughts of how lame something like this could be useful.
Cheers!
I agree. I used cloth syflex for my models but it just didn't provide the amount of details I needed at that time(it was 2005 I think). I still think sculpting cloth is needed and also even if it takes more time it removes an app from the pipeline. I don't know about you guys but I like sculpting cloth mainly because I feel that I have more control over the appearance.
that makes the end result very recognizable as something simulated and static and not really dynamic(drapery that works in multiple poses)
i think it is good for study but if you get dependent on it then you are giving up on learning how to do drapery.
there is also 3d scanning available for making realistic 3d faces, does that mean you should just scan faces and call it a day ?
Bravo sir. :thumbup:
People seem to be getting confused by the art side of character modelling (the design, shape, feel etc) and the craft side of characters (modelling, topology sculpting etc). Just because the craft has got a little bit easier doesn't mean the art has.
Costume design is a hugely respected field in theatre and cinema. Surely its time to get some of that expertise into games and this could help.
Also as tech progresses we are going to see better cloth in game, solid lumps of fabric won't cut it any more so actually cutting fabric and rendering it at run time is kind of inevitable.
Jump on board, technology is great, there are no shortcuts if the work is good and you are all beautiful artists!
it's hard to pull off, but you make it work man!
loving this btw.
Still, with some polish geared towards game creation this could be a really neat tool. Right now it's still a bit too much hassle.
importing into zbrush and then hitting dynamesh should resolve the non-quad issue?
Yes it is true, you doing cloth for a special pose. But with a bit tweaking in MD and later in ZB you will got a awesome result in a time you will never reach with just basemesh + zb.
Also cloth parts where it doesn't change normaly, like scarf, bags or small details on you gear of your character. The possibility's are unlimited.
Also the learn factor.. i did learn a lot i think.. hope.
I use it already almost 2 years for Production and with the latest version you can do amazing stuff and create a other version for the art director with just a small push or pull.
I don't want to convince anyone.. so please don't use it, any artist here!!
</purist>
Also, you rarely get to make characters with casual shirts and pair of jeans in videogames. You usually have jacked up guys with bulletproof vests, 40 pockets and belts strapped all over. I guess setting up that complex sim would be quite tedious and time-consuming.
Also, THEY ARE TAKING OUR JERBS!
They do, I seen it years ago, so...
Yup.
Interesting app never-the-less.
you are not creating it though, the software is creating it, at least most of it.
to each their own i guess.
i personally dont find it satisfying or fun to to work with simulations or 3d scanning that much. i dont see how i can call it my work when 90% of the actual thing is not mine.
obviously as technology moves forward more and more of the hand crafting will be automated so it isnt surprising.
Doing character for money as freelancer, sometime MD is very helpfully to get very realistic look and in a time you will never do.. or me or anybody else.
For most games you don't need it anyway because of the company who like to get the model exactly like the concept or don't like to have it fotoreal.
But at the end its like you said.. to each their own..
I think you meant to say hand plane
As far as craftsman vs artist - Should we define every artist that worked on commission or under patronage as a craftsman?
I have no problem with the cloth sim stuff, saying the software does all the work is a knee jerk reaction, I have the same knee jerk reaction to most current gen art "the bake is doing most of the texture work!"