^ Also note it's not really a fair comparison since in the GT vid, the car is parked dead in the racing line, whereas in Forza it's right on the opposite edge. If you moved the GT car over to the left, the cars would miss too.
Just to clarify, I'm not defending GT particularly, I love both games, just saying it's not really a fair vid.
EDIT: Hmm maybe I'm wrong, I think I can see the racing line in the Forza vid too... ok Forza wins
The Forza player is on the line. Barely, but hes on it. If you watch closely the oncoming traffic moves quickly to avoid the player, so much so one of the cars looks likes it locks up one of its brakes and almost hits a car to its left.
As far as GT is concerned. I don't care what difficultly you have the game set at. This should not be happening. Very sloppy.
I don't care what difficultly you have the game set at. This should not be happening. Very sloppy.
Exactly. Even at the dumbest AI setting, they should be avoiding collisions. Very sloppy indeed. I can't believe the number of issues that they let go in this release. Track art is pretty wonky overally, too. Fun game, but damn is it flawed for 5+yrs of development.
WTF who puts the map hud in middle of the damn screen? (Rally Special Events) I can't see a anything! (and the co-driver is horrible and calls corners way too late)
well I can vouch the AI is still retarted. Played B-spec, and my driver got stuck, and proceeded to do 2 reverse donuts before he figured his way back on the track...
wow very impressive screens. The only real problem I have is the lack of imperfections. When car hits the track after just one lap, you would be surprised at all the crap that starts to collect on the car.
Uhh, because it's a visible part of the game? If that's inhouse, their artists are lazy as shit. If it's outsourced, the lead in charge of that outsourced content is lazy as shit.
There's no way to miss that. None. You check every single texture. I caught multiple issues on Forza 3 that our vendors had returned to us. Blend maps with watermarks from iphoto or other texture websites - not cool. This is just someone dropping the ball big time.
It all adds more fuel to the 'WTF have they been doing all these years'. I mean, really, when you can create (the majority) of a car to look that good, is building/texturing the underside of the car really that much of a time sink? I know it's a less visible part of the car, but come oooon.
I was going to say time limitations must've been super tight, but if they were, what the hell were they doing with the rest of the time.
I notice Joshua mentioned the tracks looking a little sketchy in places and I've noticed it a fair bit too. Some of the sharper corners are horribly jaggy, so much so that I've occasionally driven into a wall because I'm too busy staring at the jagged corner thinking 'oooh that looks bad, sloppy work'.
After a few days with the game, I can't help but feel disappointed.
The UI is abysmal, the loading is ridiculous, and the AI struggles to compete with something on the level of Mario Kart.
The fact that the game took 6 years, and is comprised of over 800 PS2 assets is appalling.
Just imagine playing a game such as Devil May Cry 4 on PS3, but the 2nd, 4th, and 9th levels were taken from DMC2 on PS2? How do you think the reviews would read?
Racing in a premium car at high speeds in cockpit view is fun and immersive. They did a great job on that front. However, once you hit an opponent car and realize that there is no consequence, that you can simply smash and push your way through unharmed, you are taken out of the experience. This, of course, is not to mention the obstacles you went through, and the time you spent loading, and going from menu-to-menu just to get into that very race.
The guys at Turn 10 should be proud of what they achieved, and the path they chose to take. They chose quality over quantity, while Polyphony Digital chose quantity (and lots of it), over quality.
The guys at Turn 10 should be proud of what they achieved, and the path they chose to take. They chose quality over quantity, while Polyphony Digital chose quantity (and lots of it), over quality.
This... I only played Forza 3 for the first time about 2 months before GT5 came out. It was the first Forza game I'd played and I was quite honestly blown away. I know it's becoming cliche to compare Forza and GT5 but there really is no contest... and I think if anybody is honest, that'll be the answer every time.
GT5 is fun, but it's only fun for me because I loved the first game so much and it's basically just a more advanced remake, if there was no Gran Turismo history, then I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it much at all.
I hope someone does an article/interview on just what they were doing for 6/7 years. I'm standing by my earlier thoughts that the game just got scrapped a few times, started on from almost scratch and in the end, public and media pressure resulted in a half-assed effort being released too early.
My theory is that they overlooked the bottoms of cars because for a long time they probably didnt have damage or even flipping over. They must have added that near the end (which explains the poor damage sim) and then it was too late/not worth the effort to go back and detail out the bottoms.
Seriously you guys are spoiled.
I'm enjoying it for what it is. and not what everybody wanted it too be.
What I wanted it to be? I wanted it to be a fucking racing game. A game that for being in development for just about six years, should have been damn near flawless. There are huuuuge graphical issues in this game across every single track that just aren't forgivable given the dev time. Sure I'm biased by working on Forza but damn, we nail our shit down pretty good. Some graphical issue slip by, but nowhere near the volume that's in GT5 (and we usually have like 15-18 month dev cycles). It's just lazy, plain and simple.
Am I enjoying the game? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean I can't bitch about the artwork.
Well your just beating a dead horse now. I would say more but I'll stop myself.
At least DukeNuke is coming out finally too. maybe.
@Zero I would agree. Wasn't within 12 months ago they announced roll overs? I'm sure I probably wouldn't want to go over a 1000 cars to fix the bottoms, let alone model undercarriages on the Premium Models in that short amount of time.
Oh and, obligatory summation of what kind of audience gametrailers usually caters too:
Gt5s lightning engine is the best in the world,.. better them crysis I am playing Warhead right now,.. GT5 looks amazing,.
lol why all the hate ,.. I could not care less about your console wars,.. Lightening engine shits on everything ever made in real time,.. GT5 is a monster,..and the sick thing about it,.. It so fucking handcrafted , it shocks me,..some people have some serious psychological issues there at polyphony digital,.. shit looks photo-realistic most of the time,..
I was hoping the track editor would be spline based (kinda like the Interstate76 Map Editor back in the day) but it was not to be. Still it was able to come up with this gem. And I invented a new auto sport. NASCAR Rally!
totally agree, the car just looks like its been sandpapered compared to gt5s
but then again, some of the carpaint in gt5 is way too shiny. i mean, i saw a red vw gti and it was so reflective that it looked blue because of the reflection of the sky/environment all around it.
I loled at those GameTrailers comments. it's always like that, stay away from the comments section in that website, it's like a hate pool.
I wonder if some devs read the comment section for a video of their product, and spend the day laughing.
PS. The forums are even better, 90% "Which graffix r bettr" threads and other dumb comparisons.
Also, friend of mine said the underside of the cars don't need detail because they're not supposed to flip over. Really? Because that strikes me as horribly unrealistic in regards to physics
Tried the Nascar series (extreme events) particular easy with Soft race tires. But things got intense at Daytona.
I got off 1st early on, but lost it, and fell back of the pack, last lap to go I pull up to 3rd place, then get caught on another car, and spun out. Tried several times to get 1st, but it's so hard maintaining a clean pace with everybody drafting you.
I wonder if some devs read the comment section for a video of their product, and spend the day laughing.
PS. The forums are even better, 90% "Which graffix r bettr" threads and other dumb comparisons.
Also, friend of mine said the underside of the cars don't need detail because they're not supposed to flip over. Really? Because that strikes me as horribly unrealistic in regards to physics
after almost two weeks of play, I unlocked the "true" ending. and it's pretty much a treat (at least for me)
The final Extreme race I would say is appropriate. I'm used to driving around the game in a barren Nurburgring. But once it was filled with crowds it felt a little more epic of a track, much so I got distracted and forgot all my driving lines and markers. (I think I crashed a dozen times)
Btw I got a glimpse of the credit list and believe there were 30-50 dedicated car modelers. I guess cause the credits went to fast.
after almost two weeks of play, I unlocked the "true" ending. and it's pretty much a treat (at least for me)
Out of curiosity, how do you unlock the 'true' ending? I'm still loving the game but I must admit some of the races are a bit of a slog... and just doing random races and constantly checking the used market for a car needed to enter one of the series is a bit boring now.
I always like to go back and just pick up cars I like from the real world and mess around with them, drift, play online etc but wanna finish the main mode before I do that, so it'll be good to know which series to go for. Or do I just need to beat every series?
it is about the comparison they did on the AI with forza. Looks like they're more or less the same.
Anyway, very happy with the game... The only bad things is the standard cars detail, some are veeery low... they could have remade the textures easily, damnit.
He's got a good point showing that the whole thing was rigged, I sort of expected that as the Ai didn't drive bad when I played it.
He does however lose the plot a bit when he starts giving us the whole "tech-talk" about GT's 11 AI cars vs Forza's 7 and console's limited resources. That is complete bullshit. AI is not a memory or processing bottleneck if the programmers that created it are only slightly worth their salt.
I'm curious about the claim of turn 10 changing tracks in the video.
As for the ai in that video at times it seems like he's planning things just as much as he claims the other video did. All he should have done is max the AI difficulty for both games, load up leguna seca and do the tests on a track both games have and place the cars in identical spots. As it is, he comes off as condescending.
Out of curiosity, how do you unlock the 'true' ending? I'm still loving the game but I must admit some of the races are a bit of a slog... and just doing random races and constantly checking the used market for a car needed to enter one of the series is a bit boring now.
I always like to go back and just pick up cars I like from the real world and mess around with them, drift, play online etc but wanna finish the main mode before I do that, so it'll be good to know which series to go for. Or do I just need to beat every series?
You need to win the Dream Car event in Extreme races (lvl 24 req) Takes about 2 hours to do, so plan ahead. Easiest way to do it, is to use the Minolta Toyota you get for winning like the wind in Extreme races (lvl 21)
Also finally found the damn Gran Turismo F1 Car in the used dealership after I won the last event (other than endurance races) I'm flat out broke now (5 mill cred for used F1 car)
I took my F1 car online and got people asking where I got it lol.
After playing this game to death, I have noticed possibly the underlying flaw in GT5:
This game focuses entirely on the physical mechanics of cars and how they handle under various conditions or tuning with force-feedback to a peripheral steering wheel. No attempt at anything above base realism is given to the sounds, textures or scenery interaction.
True, there are a lot of clever things going on graphics wise, but it feels unfinished and neglected when you attend everything else.
What would have made it a better experience: sound of rain hitting car, sound of gravel hitting bottom of car, smooth shadows, better rez textures on base cars (it is quite laughable), higher rez textures in rear view mirror, higher detailed foliage, actual detail in objects around the track (water is just a blue plane, very shit to look at.). Well, the list goes on.
I am slightly disappointed at the lack of detail coming from an artists background. This game is a wet-dream for car enthusiasts though.
Replies
haha I tried for an hour and couldn't even get 2 secs near 11th (assuming I even manage to do 2 laps without losing control!) I suck
if you fancy racing my Datsun Cherry
[ame]
Edit: video is semi misleading. AI changes depending on the skill. It seems they do avoid the driver depending on the AI skill level.
[ame]
Just to clarify, I'm not defending GT particularly, I love both games, just saying it's not really a fair vid.
EDIT: Hmm maybe I'm wrong, I think I can see the racing line in the Forza vid too... ok Forza wins
As far as GT is concerned. I don't care what difficultly you have the game set at. This should not be happening. Very sloppy.
Exactly. Even at the dumbest AI setting, they should be avoiding collisions. Very sloppy indeed. I can't believe the number of issues that they let go in this release. Track art is pretty wonky overally, too. Fun game, but damn is it flawed for 5+yrs of development.
well I can vouch the AI is still retarted. Played B-spec, and my driver got stuck, and proceeded to do 2 reverse donuts before he figured his way back on the track...
coworker showed me this today.
they scanned an autoart diecast model and slapped it onto the bottom of the car. they didnt even bother removing the autoart logo or the screw heads!
Polyphony could likely be sued by the die cast company as well. Morons. Jesus christ, it takes all of about 30 seconds to clone brush the logo out.
I guess they didn't touch a thing at all from GT4.
Why are we talking about the bottom anyway? lol
Uhh, because it's a visible part of the game? If that's inhouse, their artists are lazy as shit. If it's outsourced, the lead in charge of that outsourced content is lazy as shit.
There's no way to miss that. None. You check every single texture. I caught multiple issues on Forza 3 that our vendors had returned to us. Blend maps with watermarks from iphoto or other texture websites - not cool. This is just someone dropping the ball big time.
It all adds more fuel to the 'WTF have they been doing all these years'. I mean, really, when you can create (the majority) of a car to look that good, is building/texturing the underside of the car really that much of a time sink? I know it's a less visible part of the car, but come oooon.
I was going to say time limitations must've been super tight, but if they were, what the hell were they doing with the rest of the time.
I notice Joshua mentioned the tracks looking a little sketchy in places and I've noticed it a fair bit too. Some of the sharper corners are horribly jaggy, so much so that I've occasionally driven into a wall because I'm too busy staring at the jagged corner thinking 'oooh that looks bad, sloppy work'.
The UI is abysmal, the loading is ridiculous, and the AI struggles to compete with something on the level of Mario Kart.
The fact that the game took 6 years, and is comprised of over 800 PS2 assets is appalling.
Just imagine playing a game such as Devil May Cry 4 on PS3, but the 2nd, 4th, and 9th levels were taken from DMC2 on PS2? How do you think the reviews would read?
Racing in a premium car at high speeds in cockpit view is fun and immersive. They did a great job on that front. However, once you hit an opponent car and realize that there is no consequence, that you can simply smash and push your way through unharmed, you are taken out of the experience. This, of course, is not to mention the obstacles you went through, and the time you spent loading, and going from menu-to-menu just to get into that very race.
There was a talk given by Inafune at TGS on how Western developers had overtaken Japanese developers, and how he was disappointed in his local industry. If his statements were a metaphorical cake, GT5 is the thick, spoiled, icing on top.
The guys at Turn 10 should be proud of what they achieved, and the path they chose to take. They chose quality over quantity, while Polyphony Digital chose quantity (and lots of it), over quality.
This... I only played Forza 3 for the first time about 2 months before GT5 came out. It was the first Forza game I'd played and I was quite honestly blown away. I know it's becoming cliche to compare Forza and GT5 but there really is no contest... and I think if anybody is honest, that'll be the answer every time.
GT5 is fun, but it's only fun for me because I loved the first game so much and it's basically just a more advanced remake, if there was no Gran Turismo history, then I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it much at all.
I hope someone does an article/interview on just what they were doing for 6/7 years. I'm standing by my earlier thoughts that the game just got scrapped a few times, started on from almost scratch and in the end, public and media pressure resulted in a half-assed effort being released too early.
I'm enjoying it for what it is. and not what everybody wanted it too be.
lazy but I'm pretty sure they have the Autoart license
edit, nm it's Rallyart :P
Uh "ralliart" is Mitsubishi's performance division. So I think your right before you corrected yourself.
I've built the lancer and textured the skin more than once so I should have known :P Brainfart..
What I wanted it to be? I wanted it to be a fucking racing game. A game that for being in development for just about six years, should have been damn near flawless. There are huuuuge graphical issues in this game across every single track that just aren't forgivable given the dev time. Sure I'm biased by working on Forza but damn, we nail our shit down pretty good. Some graphical issue slip by, but nowhere near the volume that's in GT5 (and we usually have like 15-18 month dev cycles). It's just lazy, plain and simple.
Am I enjoying the game? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean I can't bitch about the artwork.
At least DukeNuke is coming out finally too. maybe.
@Zero I would agree. Wasn't within 12 months ago they announced roll overs? I'm sure I probably wouldn't want to go over a 1000 cars to fix the bottoms, let alone model undercarriages on the Premium Models in that short amount of time.
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/forza-3-gran-turismo/708122
Oh and, obligatory summation of what kind of audience gametrailers usually caters too:
I remember somebody complaining about the 2D crowd. lol
Intresting how Forza uses a wide lens for 3rd person, and GT5 is flatter.
Its a good game but has a lot of flaws
All Forza really needs is better shaders, stuff looks really flat and lacking in the shiny department.
totally agree, the car just looks like its been sandpapered compared to gt5s
Best. GT5. Screenshot. Ever.
but then again, some of the carpaint in gt5 is way too shiny. i mean, i saw a red vw gti and it was so reflective that it looked blue because of the reflection of the sky/environment all around it.
PS. The forums are even better, 90% "Which graffix r bettr" threads and other dumb comparisons.
Also, friend of mine said the underside of the cars don't need detail because they're not supposed to flip over. Really? Because that strikes me as horribly unrealistic in regards to physics
I got off 1st early on, but lost it, and fell back of the pack, last lap to go I pull up to 3rd place, then get caught on another car, and spun out. Tried several times to get 1st, but it's so hard maintaining a clean pace with everybody drafting you.
Yes some of us do read them haha.
The final Extreme race I would say is appropriate. I'm used to driving around the game in a barren Nurburgring. But once it was filled with crowds it felt a little more epic of a track, much so I got distracted and forgot all my driving lines and markers. (I think I crashed a dozen times)
Btw I got a glimpse of the credit list and believe there were 30-50 dedicated car modelers. I guess cause the credits went to fast.
Out of curiosity, how do you unlock the 'true' ending? I'm still loving the game but I must admit some of the races are a bit of a slog... and just doing random races and constantly checking the used market for a car needed to enter one of the series is a bit boring now.
I always like to go back and just pick up cars I like from the real world and mess around with them, drift, play online etc but wanna finish the main mode before I do that, so it'll be good to know which series to go for. Or do I just need to beat every series?
[ame]
it is about the comparison they did on the AI with forza. Looks like they're more or less the same.
Anyway, very happy with the game... The only bad things is the standard cars detail, some are veeery low... they could have remade the textures easily, damnit.
He does however lose the plot a bit when he starts giving us the whole "tech-talk" about GT's 11 AI cars vs Forza's 7 and console's limited resources. That is complete bullshit. AI is not a memory or processing bottleneck if the programmers that created it are only slightly worth their salt.
As for the ai in that video at times it seems like he's planning things just as much as he claims the other video did. All he should have done is max the AI difficulty for both games, load up leguna seca and do the tests on a track both games have and place the cars in identical spots. As it is, he comes off as condescending.
You need to win the Dream Car event in Extreme races (lvl 24 req) Takes about 2 hours to do, so plan ahead. Easiest way to do it, is to use the Minolta Toyota you get for winning like the wind in Extreme races (lvl 21)
Also finally found the damn Gran Turismo F1 Car in the used dealership after I won the last event (other than endurance races) I'm flat out broke now (5 mill cred for used F1 car)
I took my F1 car online and got people asking where I got it lol.
This game focuses entirely on the physical mechanics of cars and how they handle under various conditions or tuning with force-feedback to a peripheral steering wheel. No attempt at anything above base realism is given to the sounds, textures or scenery interaction.
True, there are a lot of clever things going on graphics wise, but it feels unfinished and neglected when you attend everything else.
What would have made it a better experience: sound of rain hitting car, sound of gravel hitting bottom of car, smooth shadows, better rez textures on base cars (it is quite laughable), higher rez textures in rear view mirror, higher detailed foliage, actual detail in objects around the track (water is just a blue plane, very shit to look at.). Well, the list goes on.
I am slightly disappointed at the lack of detail coming from an artists background. This game is a wet-dream for car enthusiasts though.