Hmmm... yeah your textures look almost the same as the changes I made so any chance I can see it in motion? Another idea might be to also adjust the alpha transparency so that its not as solidly consistent in all places. Sort of how Jocose was suggesting bands of value change with the mist...
I use the same effect on light beams and it works really well. Keep in mind you'd leave the diffuse the way it is and only adjust the alpha. I think this would really help to pull it away from looking like a bunch of glowing marshmallows :P
As for the doorway, definitely add some godbeams coming out of it like Mr. Bear suggested in the picture. Its smack dab in the center of the scene but there's nothing there to grab your eye. Although darkening it up a lot (like the concept) could also work to catch your attention and give it a much more foreboding feel too.
Finally one other thing that I noticed that's really nice about the concept but missing from your picture is the fact that the water appears to be falling at different rates.
There are thinner streams of water dripping off the rocks on the far left and over the doorway. Even the water on the Right appears to be set up in a way that it forms a bit of a pool at the midway point and would be moving slower than the torrent on the left of the doorway.
This adds some much needed contrast to the scene and really helps to break things up and provide a distinct fore, mid and background. Right now your scene is a bit over saturated with the heavy falling water.
I've experimented with some slightly different particles. Hopefully this is what Jacose was talking about with hue variation. Also, this one's in HD, so you should be able to see some details you might not have been able to in the last couple of videos.
I think you would be far better off making a waterfall shader and using geo than trying to build out a whole waterfall with particles, as seems to be happening in the video you posted.
If you make a good looking tileable shader and UV it flat, when you push and pull verts to make the curvature and subtle variations in the waterfall's shape, the stretched UVs will deform the shader around those verts and give an illusion of water slowing down and speeding up due to obstacles beneath the water's flow.
You will of course end up using some particles as well for bits that "spit" off and for atmosphere, but using both geo and particles will give you more diversity and power to create a compelling system of effects.
missed your post Jarm! The screens you were looking at showed exactly what you're talking about. A large geo sheet with some particles here and there for depth. Wasn't giving me the look I wanted, abandoned for the revised system above which is all particles.
Now that I see it in motion, the waterfall effect looks sooo much better with the motion blur. Actually looks like water now instead of snow so that's good. Would still suggest adding the variation bands to the alpha though and see how that looks since its quite easy to update the sprite texture.
Also, the speed of the droplets and the water trickling down the right side looks way too fast. I'd go with at least half that speed if not slower. And since I'm really being picky here, there looks to be some Z fighting problems with the sprites that I noticed when watching the video which is hard to notice at first but when you do it really catches your attention. Not sure how you could fix it but thought I'd mention it. Oh, and the darker color for the water is much better, but I'd try to leave in the hints of blue for color variation as it looks a little flat now.
Finally for the trickling water on the far left, I'd suggest using geometry sheets with the same texture you used for the water running over the rocks on the right rather than sprites. Water only tends to be that solid white color when its falling in mass quantities.
@Torque: I've added some banding in but it doesn't appear to have made much of a difference. Slowed down the water drips too, they look a bit better now. I'll try tweaking the blueness in the water a bit. I'm not sure about using geometry for the waterfall on the right. It looks like it's falling in pretty massive quantities in the concept:
I'm going to try to do it with particles first, I'll try geometry if that doesn't work out.
Comparing your waterfall to the concept, yours looks a lot more like water spray, whilst the concept has clear planes of water that is quite sharp. You could try using meshes so can control the water a little more and using a more... spiky/ rain like texture. It almost looks like icicles in some places on the concept.
I tried that before and I ran into all sorts of problems with sorting errors. I think that there is a point at which you need to ask yourself "what was the concept artist trying to portray" instead of just blinding doing what was in the drawing. I don't think his water is stylistic choice, I think thats just how he draws water.
instead of just blinding doing what was in the drawing. I don't think his water is stylistic choice, I think thats just how he draws water.
Unless of course, whats being portrayed looks a lot better than what you currently have. All I'm saying is your water need to have more direction and have high and low frequencies.
If I were you I'd move onto a different area instead of getting caught up with the water, and come back to it at a later point.
Feanix, try adding the banding to both the diffuse and the alpha channel then to get the greatest effect. And I meant to use geometry for the water dripping down the rocks on the far left not the right. The ones you just added in recently.
@Torque: I'm sorry, I'm confused. The water on the far left is geometry.
New screenshot. Adjusting the vegetation on the bridge, I'm going to concentrate it around the base of the door as per the concept.
Also, I added some wind effects to all the vegetation so that it's not all perfectly still in the video. New video below, be sure to watch in HD, wind effects are subtle:
your green is a little too yellow (tree looks beeter tone)... and should be slimy-er than the reock around it as it will hold water more and not dry off in the sun as much...
you need alot more green shit around the base of the base of the statues/far end of the bridge...
deffinatly use a mesh AND particles...
and finally
get a nice rainbow effect in there...but keep it subtle
Feanix, you see how the water running down the rocks on the far right is basically transparent. Its almost just like you've got a scrolling specular highlight on the rocks. That's what I mean for the water on the far left. Right now its too white looking so it give the impression that there's a large volume of water moving, but it really shouldn't be that big. Makes it look more like ice than water since its so white. Probably not helping that its being backlit by the sun effect. And the scroll rate of the water texture is still way too fast. Cut it by at least 200%. Same with the dripping.
Hey feanix i just skimmed thru your progress but after watching your scene video, i have some suggestions. The waterfall is bring a lot of environment movement but at the same time its essentially leaving behind some secondary motions that are killing the scene. or not really killing more like not bring it together, for example the trees underneath the waterfall would be swaying like crazy. Another thing is the water breaking the light and creating some rainbows, and finally the bridge it self would be a lot wetter and foggier.
Hey guys, it been a while! I've been doing some final tweaks on this over the last couple of weeks and I feel like I need to put this piece aside for now. It's seen a lot of improvment from what it was at the beginning of the revamp but I'm getting worried that I'll never be finished with this if I keep going like I am. That's not to say I'm done with this forever but I'm calling it for now.
I like to give out a huge thanks to everyone for their help so far. You guys have been amazing.
This is cool, the falls look great in motion! I'm just wondering why on earth there are so many tris on those straight bridge edges? If they are slightly uneven I can't really tell, if so I think you should exaggerate it a lot, lot more! I think it would make that whole area of the scene much more interesting if they were more uneven both side and height wise.
It looks great feanix! I definitely know what you mean about stopping before you go crazy. Sometimes its best to simply leave it the way it is. You get so much feedback on these forums its hard to implement everything that people suggest.
The final video looks amazing though! It'll be great for your portfolio.
@PhilipK - I think the reason he's got so many divisions on the bridge is simply for tessellation to improve lighting (http://www.hourences.com/tutorials-vtx-lighting/) which if I'm not mistaken, is redundant in UE3 with lightmass.
Replies
@suburbbum: Are you saying the you think it might look better with the light removed?
@jacose: Thanks for the tips! I'll see what I can do about getting those implemented!
@esquire: Yeah, I see the bits you're talking about. I'll make sure those get in!
@torque: Motion blur was added in photoshop. Can't really do it with post effects in unreal, alas. Here's the streaking already being used:
I use the same effect on light beams and it works really well. Keep in mind you'd leave the diffuse the way it is and only adjust the alpha. I think this would really help to pull it away from looking like a bunch of glowing marshmallows :P
As for the doorway, definitely add some godbeams coming out of it like Mr. Bear suggested in the picture. Its smack dab in the center of the scene but there's nothing there to grab your eye. Although darkening it up a lot (like the concept) could also work to catch your attention and give it a much more foreboding feel too.
Finally one other thing that I noticed that's really nice about the concept but missing from your picture is the fact that the water appears to be falling at different rates.
There are thinner streams of water dripping off the rocks on the far left and over the doorway. Even the water on the Right appears to be set up in a way that it forms a bit of a pool at the midway point and would be moving slower than the torrent on the left of the doorway.
This adds some much needed contrast to the scene and really helps to break things up and provide a distinct fore, mid and background. Right now your scene is a bit over saturated with the heavy falling water.
http://vimeo.com/24190768
I think you would be far better off making a waterfall shader and using geo than trying to build out a whole waterfall with particles, as seems to be happening in the video you posted.
If you make a good looking tileable shader and UV it flat, when you push and pull verts to make the curvature and subtle variations in the waterfall's shape, the stretched UVs will deform the shader around those verts and give an illusion of water slowing down and speeding up due to obstacles beneath the water's flow.
You will of course end up using some particles as well for bits that "spit" off and for atmosphere, but using both geo and particles will give you more diversity and power to create a compelling system of effects.
Excited to see how this turns out!
<warface> IM READY FOR IT. TEAR IT TO SHREDS! </warface>
Also, the speed of the droplets and the water trickling down the right side looks way too fast. I'd go with at least half that speed if not slower. And since I'm really being picky here, there looks to be some Z fighting problems with the sprites that I noticed when watching the video which is hard to notice at first but when you do it really catches your attention. Not sure how you could fix it but thought I'd mention it. Oh, and the darker color for the water is much better, but I'd try to leave in the hints of blue for color variation as it looks a little flat now.
Finally for the trickling water on the far left, I'd suggest using geometry sheets with the same texture you used for the water running over the rocks on the right rather than sprites. Water only tends to be that solid white color when its falling in mass quantities.
I'm going to try to do it with particles first, I'll try geometry if that doesn't work out.
Unless of course, whats being portrayed looks a lot better than what you currently have. All I'm saying is your water need to have more direction and have high and low frequencies.
If I were you I'd move onto a different area instead of getting caught up with the water, and come back to it at a later point.
Now that, that is out of the way... Hey feanix! I have been following your waterfall environment creation and I am really impressed/inspired by it
Just something that I thought I would mention. I think the arch might need a little more moss on it. Other than that I am loving it
New screenshot. Adjusting the vegetation on the bridge, I'm going to concentrate it around the base of the door as per the concept.
Also, I added some wind effects to all the vegetation so that it's not all perfectly still in the video. New video below, be sure to watch in HD, wind effects are subtle:
http://vimeo.com/24247319
you need alot more green shit around the base of the base of the statues/far end of the bridge...
deffinatly use a mesh AND particles...
and finally
get a nice rainbow effect in there...but keep it subtle
@shapeiro: I'll fix up that moss and add more green shit! Thanks for the crits!
Like the wind effect though!
this looking really nice, man! keep pushing!
I like to give out a huge thanks to everyone for their help so far. You guys have been amazing.
Video Link
Here's a render:
Seriously though, nice work.
Nice job with this one. Brings back some memories
The final video looks amazing though! It'll be great for your portfolio.
@PhilipK - I think the reason he's got so many divisions on the bridge is simply for tessellation to improve lighting (http://www.hourences.com/tutorials-vtx-lighting/) which if I'm not mistaken, is redundant in UE3 with lightmass.
High tri count was so that I'd have enough resolution for vertex painting. :P