Summary of changes:
* The way of selecting gap loop vertices is changed to MMB + Double-LMB. It was LMB + Double-MMB.
* 'No auto naturalization' option is added to spline 'Tweak' tool.
* 'Rounded' option is added to edge shoulder style extrusion.
* Polygon Inset/Outset tool's option is changed to 'Follow inside shape' and 'Folow outside shape'.
* Segment can be changed on Chamfer/Extrusion/Inset/Loopcut tools, including the extrusion tool in retopo tool, without exiting the tool. To do that, while the tool is still live, press any number keys(excluding 0 key), '-' and '+' keys, or simply scroll WMB.
* 0 key is set to be used as option changing tool for streamline tools. For example, drag out an edge chamfer then tap 0 key to see the changes while the tool is still live. For Polygon Extrude/Inset tools, once the tool is activated press down and hold 0 key then drag out the shape. This way, the app will treat each individual selected polygon as an seperate extrusion unit.
* Creating geometry from spline in retopo tool is improved. After selecting the splines, press and hold Ctrl key then scroll WMB to set segment. Rlease Ctrl key to exit.
Thanks!
MightyPea: Please check this for edge/polygon gap loop selection, Help > Contents > Modeling > Selection Tools.
Changing a chamfer's number with wmb while dragging creates a ton of glitchy polygons all over the place which dissapear when you toggle sub-d off and on. So it's mainly a visual glitch (the mesh seems fine afterwards).
Small thing that could be changed: In the Materials section it says 'assign to object' while it actually applies the material to your selection only (which is good!)
Summary of changes:
* A bug in edge chamfer tool is fixed which may cause messy mesh rendering.
* StreamLine tool option cycling hotkey is changed from 0 key to Space key. It is customizable, Edit > Customize > Tools > Modeling Options > StreamLine Tool Option Cycler.
* Edit > Preference > General > Allow edge loop/ring collapse on highlighted edge.
Thanks!
I might just have missed it, but is there also a loop grow? I only found the Ring Grow.
Quick note on selection converting, edge to face currently seems to not work when not every face is closed, here's an animation where I have a vert-selection, convert it to edges, then convert that to faces (unsuccesfully in this case). At the end I manually select the faces I'd expect to see selected.
Quote: I might just have missed it, but is there also a loop grow? I only found the Ring Grow
-What is loop grow?
Quote: edge to face currently seems to not work when not every face is closed.
-The reason is to keep selection unchanged when switching betweewn modes. There is an edge selection convertion tool which can do that.
I'm getting into the Workplane right now (hadn't done much with it up till now) and a few features I'm still missing (or not seeing!) are the ability for object to be aligned to the workplane (align to workplane), to move objects to the Workplane's midpoint (0,0,0) and for new Primitives to be created at the that point as well. I suggest you just replace the world coordinates with the workplane while that's locked, unless anyone has any objections?
edit: Oh, just saw your post.
Loop grow is like Ring Grow really, except it grows your selection one step one either side of your selection, along the loop. If you press it enough times, you'll end up with a loop-selection.
This video shows off what I mean with my workplane requests really well: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqHFYW7SQn8"]LUXOLOGY MODO - 10b CONVENTION - WORK PLANE ( ALIGN WORK PLANE TO SELECTION ) ( EN ).mp4 - YouTube[/ame]
I'm getting into the Workplane right now (hadn't done much with it up till now) and a few features I'm still missing (or not seeing!) are the ability for object to be aligned to the workplane (align to workplane), to move objects to the Workplane's midpoint (0,0,0) and for new Primitives to be created at the that point as well. I suggest you just replace the world coordinates with the workplane while that's locked, unless anyone has any objections?
Summary of changes:
* A bug in object scaling is fixed.
* Selection > Grow/Shrink Loop Selection. It works on vertex/edge/polygon modes.
* For primitive tools, if position is not specified and workplane is visible and locked, the new object will be place in workplane center.
* Streamline basic tool 'Snap Selection' is improved. If there is no snap point detected, world/workplane origin will be used.
Thanks!
Greg: The bone tools should work. What is you expectation?
Summary of changes:
* This option is removed, Edit > Preference > General > Allow edge loop collapse on highlighted edge. Because coding has been improved to better handle the related conflict situation in streamline setting.
* Cut out lines selection states can be switched in streamline loop-cut tools. To do that, while the tool is still live, tap streamline tool option hotkey, Space key by default.
* Edge rounded chamfering is more precise.
* Streamline polygon-inset option switching is more reasonable.
Thanks!
I don't understand what changed with the inset/outset options. Pressing space just doesn't seem to do anything anymore. Perhaps you need me to explain better what it is I wanted? Just let me know and I'll try to document my request better
Is ring grow/shrink in the tools anywhere? I'd like to map it to ctrl-shift wmb (grow/srhink selection is ctrl-alt-shift wmb and loop grow/shrink is on ctrl-alt wmb)
Edit: found a bug! At least, I think it's a bug.
Also, could we get a command that turns a continuous selection into an ngon? So it basically just gets rid of any internal edges/vertices. It'd be nice if this would work in any selection-mode.
Thanks again for all the rapid updates!
edit: don't ask me what I'm doing at the end of the animation. I don't know.
By default, the streamline Inset tool automatically uses 'Follow inside shape' for inset and 'Follow outside shape' for outset. Tap Space key will change this behaviour respectively. Are you sure tapping Space key doesn't do anything anymore? Create a cube, select a face, S+RMB+drag(left/right), tap Space key while mouse button is still pressed down. You should be able to see the difference.
There is no ring grow/shrink tool yet. It seems it can only be possible in edge selection.
Don't understand what is the bug in the animated bug. It seems you have executed the 'Collapse' Command.
Ack, stupid of me not to explain the gif. Yes, ironbearxl is right!
I'll try the inset tool again, maybe I did something wrong. In the mean time, I found another bug:
I used resymmetry right before recording this clip, just to make sure it was symmetrical, but it seems it doesn't take invisble edges into account, which can have an effect on sub-d, as well as just exporting lowpoly models.
I just tried the combined inset/outset tool, and space doesn't work. It does work in the other modes, though.
edit: my bad! I had mine set to bevel/inset/outset. What's the difference, and how is this one supposed to work? To me it just seemed the same as the inset, as I can only get it to inset/outset, not bevel.
bevel/inset/outset is a type of streamline basic tool which normally uses the visual ui settings. For this kind of tool it's better to have its option dialog on. The same I show you for the chamfer option dialog a few posts back. It is usefull for tools that have multiple options. As you can see many streamline basic tools are the break down of a visual tool.
What is the meaning of the symmetry gif again? I found it hard to understand.
It shows that internal/invisible edges aren't symmetrical, which can impact the look of a model, as shown.
Another thing I ran into with symmetry is that not all tools work on the symmetry line, which can be annoying. Here's a gif of a chamfer:
A few observations after having a first look at it:
The software should not spam the Documents folder. For settings stuff there is the Appdata directory. And the 3D Coat folder is useless for somebody like me. I don`t have 3D Coat.
There should be a way to navigate without holding a key down all the time. I even managed to achieve this in Blender. Is there a way here too?
I`m a big fan of iconized toolbars which i can place where i need it. Is this possible?
And you should really redo your page. And add a few much more shots and movies about your software.
It is possible to naviate view without hotkey. Customize > Tools > View Navigation Tools > Rotate View. Clear the hotkey and change the mouse button to RMB.
There are iconized tool bar already and they can be place to any where you want. You can also hide them.
When I get my new computer I'll record some video of my workflow, but you should understand that IStonia is still working on the software now. He'll release it for sale later, and I'm sure he'll want some videos and other promotional stuff then. For now, you can use the software and help him improve it!
ya that would be great mightypea, im running it pretty heavily customized, with a similar feel to silo, but better, so thinking sometime in the future i will post my config, and make a keyboard chart and everythign for it.
Passerby: I'd be interested to see your setup. I'm hesitant about loading it in after the trouble I had with import/export of settings, but I'd love to see a keychart!
I've got my w, e and r keys set up with a streamline tool which tweak_move/scale/rotates on lmb, but it doesn't seem to move/scale/rotate 'by the previous amount' when you click, as the Inset or Extrude streamline tools do. Could this be set up this way?
Repeat Last Command also doesn't seem to work on these.
The Tweak_scale also doesn't work with value-snapping (ctrl).
Summary of changes:
* Collopse tool is improved to collapse to gemometry center.
* Selection > Grow/Shring Ring Selection. It works on vertex/edge/polygon mode.
* Preference > General > RMB action cancel enabled.
* Calculate Symmetry tool is improved to make polygon windings also symmetrical.
* File > 3D-Coat Applink > Applink Enalbed. Be default, it is not enabled.
* Loopcut edge selection setting is saved on app shut down.
* A new basic streamline tool, Make Quad, under polygon tools group. It convert polygon selection into quad polygons. Drag or Scroll WMB to adjust orientation.
Thanks!
* File > 3D-Coat Applink > Applink Enalbed. Be default, it is not enabled.
why not just check for the folder when the link is executed? if 3DC is found and there is no folder then create the folder and launch 3DC. much cleaner for the user
Display Toggle: Is there a way to set a hot-key to Ctrl + Alt + MMB? I tried setting it up in the hot-key section, but MMB seems to be locked to Zoom. I love the way Silo uses Ctrl+Alt+MMB to toggle through the display settings (thanks for adding that display toggle a while back).
Manipulator Tolerance: I thought I brought this up a while ago as well, but is there any way to increase the selection tolerance around the manipulator handles? I find myself accidentally missing the handle when I try to grab it, and it's really slowing me down and frustrating me.
Extrude Functionality: I'd like to hear everyone else's feedback on this. I would like extrude to be a single-button press/release. I don't like having to "drop the tool" when I'm done extruding. That is my biggest complaint about Modo (having to drop the tool after every function). It slows you down. I understand that users may want it "ON" so they can extrude over and over THEN drop the tool. But nine times out of ten, I only want to extrude once. If I want to extrude again, I just hit the hot-key again, instead of being forced to drop the tool after every use. Am I alone on this?
Slide Loop: Is there any way you could make the Slide Loop function ONLY slide the selected edges, and NOT select the entire loop first, then slide? I'm not sure how to slide the selected edges at the moment, is there a way?
Cut Edges: The Cut Tool seems to be broken when I have edges already selected, and I want to connect them. (select two parallel edges and hit cut. It creates three new edges instead of one)It seems to add edges twice. Once when you depress "cut", and once again when you let go, cutting the edges a second time. Is it something to do with my hot-key? I'm using Storm's Silo setup.
Thanks again! I haven't used Voidworld/Nvil for a while because I've been in Zbrush. But now I'm coming back to it. Congratulations on all of the fantastic updates! Thank you very much for working so hard on this!
why not just check for the folder when the link is executed? if 3DC is found and there is no folder then create the folder and launch 3DC. much cleaner for the user
There is a situation when you try to send an object to vw but you have never executed any 3dc applink in vw.
Display Toggle: Is there a way to set a hot-key to Ctrl + Alt + MMB? I tried setting it up in the hot-key section, but MMB seems to be locked to Zoom. I love the way Silo uses Ctrl+Alt+MMB to toggle through the display settings (thanks for adding that display toggle a while back).[\QUOTE]
I got it set up and it works fine for me. You should not be able to get zoom as Ctrl has disable it. Also there is display option in Edit > Preference > Filters > Shading Style Cycle Filters. So you don't have to loop through all the possibe display style.
Extrude Functionality: I'd like to hear everyone else's feedback on this. I would like extrude to be a single-button press/release. I don't like having to "drop the tool" when I'm done extruding. That is my biggest complaint about Modo (having to drop the tool after every function). It slows you down. I understand that users may want it "ON" so they can extrude over and over THEN drop the tool. But nine times out of ten, I only want to extrude once. If I want to extrude again, I just hit the hot-key again, instead of being forced to drop the tool after every use. Am I alone on this?[\QUOTE]
You can use the streamline extrude tool instead of the visual tool.
Slide Loop: Is there any way you could make the Slide Loop function ONLY slide the selected edges, and NOT select the entire loop first, then slide? I'm not sure how to slide the selected edges at the moment, is there a way?
Place your cursor over one of the selected edges then activate the loop-cut-slide tool. You can see this is stated in the 'Instant Help' for this tool.
Cut Edges: The Cut Tool seems to be broken when I have edges already selected, and I want to connect them. (select two parallel edges and hit cut. It creates three new edges instead of one)It seems to add edges twice. Once when you depress "cut", and once again when you let go, cutting the edges a second time. Is it something to do with my hot-key? I'm using Storm's Silo setup.
Souds like you haven't known much what streamline tool is. You can check and set it through this, Edit > Customize > StreamLine Tools. Also you can get more information from, Help > StreamLine Tools. It is possible that you can set two different events of a streamline tool to do the same thing. That's why.
Manipulator Tolerance: I thought I brought this up a while ago as well, but is there any way to increase the selection tolerance around the manipulator handles? I find myself accidentally missing the handle when I try to grab it, and it's really slowing me down and frustrating me.
I will mak manipulator tolerance customizable. But you can use the the streamline axis tweak tools. By default, they are assigned to W/R/E. You don't have to interact with manipulator handles.
There should be a way to navigate without holding a key down all the time. I even managed to achieve this in Blender. Is there a way here too?
It is definedly possible, but VW is heavily about having to press some keys down at all times.
I`m a big fan of iconized toolbars which i can place where i need it. Is this possible?
If this is so I wonder if VW is a Software you could like. There's some toolbars, yes but the whole interaction-concept is optimized to control the Software with hotkeys or context-sensitive Main-Menu/Marking-Menus.
Using Toolbars is a far more static concept, it inevitably requires displaying of items which currently are not applicable or alternatively permanent rebuilding of the GUI while working. Translating all the niftiness of VW into buttons meant having hundreds of them and it meant having to create new Icons every week. Also when having to press Buttons the elegance of the streamline-concept was entirely wasted.
I very much agree with the need for visual documentation but I think one should not bother Istonia with the slowest and most work-intense of all interaction-concepts.
Well, VW is still in development. So when if not now is the time to ask for alternative handling concepts? Somebody remembers Blender 2.49 with its focus on hotkeys only? And the by that connected very steep learning curve? This made me stay away from Blender for several years.
Learning hotkeys costs lots of time. Hotkeys are not intuitive, they don`t have a place in the menu, they don`t have a tool name, and they don`t have tooltips which could tell you for what it is good for. And it is nearly impossible to keep all hotkeys for a modeling software in mind. Especially when you use more than one software. Means you will always spend time to search for the hotkey that you need where you could simply have a look in the menu.
Ever listened to a Blender 2.49 tutorial? Oh, what did he mumble? was it a s or a f? They all sound more like a dictation than a tutorial for modeling. And where it`s getting crazy is when you need your foot too to press a hotkey because you have this much tools in your software that you run out of useful hotkeys. My all time favourite for Blender is Shift+CTRL+ALT+C for a very often used tool: Origin. Happy finger breaking. Still exists in Blender 2.63.
Hotkeys only will scare away VW customers, like it did with Blender 2.49.
And that`s where toolbars comes in handy. That way the user can decide if he wants to use hotkeys for an action, or a button. In Blender i just use around 5 Hotkeys permanently. And for the rest i use the menu. I am more than happy about every software with a good working graphical UI.
Having toolbars does not mean that you are not allowed to use hotkeys anymore by the way. It`s the mix that makes it good.
In the end it`s of course iStonia`s decision if he will implement toolbars too. We will see
The software is originally designed to have a similar ui as max. The original visual ui is still there and I think It shouldn't be hard to firgure out what's what.
You are asking for icon style ui but a while ago some one comes from xsi and modo ask me to get rid of the icons and replace them with texts. I think I should leave it as is.
If you want to do things effeciently, hotkey is the way to go. For example, to extrude a face, move your cursor to highlight it, press down A key, move your mouse, release A key, done. vw's hotkey setup is highly customizable, many tools you need to setup yourself. It is not tons of hotkey setup there already for you to get used to. If you can spend some time on streamline tools, you may change your mind.
On the contrary though, I think hotkeys become very intuitive with the Smart Help system. Everything in there functions as a button, by the way.
That does not mean I don't want customisable toolbars, it just means there are other things which I would like to see first.
If you want to do things effeciently, hotkey is the way to go ... If you can spend some time on streamline tools, you may change your mind.
That`s very unlikely. It`s not that i have no clue of how to do things most effectively. I do 3D since nearly 15 years now, i use lots of software, also streamline ones. And it is simply my observation and opinion that hotkey only is no wise decision in the long run.
I can of course see where you come from. Creating a useful graphical UI costs lots of time, which is in your current case better spent in developing functionality.
You are asking for icon style ui but a while ago some one comes from xsi and modo ask me to get rid of the icons and replace them with texts. I think I should leave it as is.
People are like this. They want the best things from their favourite software to be in their next favourite software. And i am not different here.
In an ideal world you could have both, toolbars with text, and toolbars with icons. That`s what trueSpace had for example. There you could switch between icons and text style buttons. Blender even has both. Text with an icon besides. But at the current point this would be overkill for your app. So yes, wise decision, i would say leave it as it is.
On the contrary though, I think hotkeys become very intuitive with the Smart Help system. Everything in there functions as a button, by the way.
That does not mean I don't want customisable toolbars, it just means there are other things which I would like to see first.
Tiles, there is no absolute way to juge which one is a better way. It is up to personal preference. VW happens to heading in hotkey direction. If I go in the same way as other software, there is no point to carry on.
The bad thing for hotkey style is you need to remember many keys. But in VW, one key can hold many tools since it uses mouse buttons to activate the actual tool. For a standard mouse, on key can hold up to 6 tools. You can switch from tool to tool very quickly.
Tiles,
many of the concepts of VW simply would not work with buttons. Have you already realized that each Mouse-Button can do something different and that a such multi-mouse-button-hotkeys dependent of the currently active Subobject-Type can mean something else?
Such would transfer into a very complex Button-Set which either would crowd the GUI (also currently irrelevant functions would be shown at any time - which I find highly un-intuitve...) or Button-Sets had to be hidden and shown depending on the context. When starting to think about this I would not have any idea on how to solve this elegantly.
I have not yet worked with a program with a comparable concept...
It seems that current users are highly accustomed using hotkeys, Therefore I think it would be consequent to even remove the set of existing basic bars. One can not drive the app with them in any reasonable fashion, so why are they there? But that's also me - I hate looking at and having to press buttons.
Again - this is not meant mean in any way but I believe that for people who need to see their tools there is more suitable Software.
Summary of changes:
* Make Quad tool is improved. To change row setting, tap '-' or '+' key. To change auto relax option, tap Space key.
* Edit > Preference > General > Manipulator Tolerance.
* The following transformation basic streamline tools can repeat last action by just click its mouse button. Tweak_Scale, Plane_Move, Axis_Move, Axis_Rotate, Plane_Scale, Axis_Scale.
Thanks!
* The following transformation basic streamline tools can repeat last action by just click its mouse button. Tweak_Scale, Plane_Move, Axis_Move, Axis_Rotate, Plane_Scale, Axis_Scale.
Thanks a lot for this!
I just began using the unwrapping tools, and have a few suggestions:
First off, many tools and hotkeys that I rely on for modeling don't work in the UV window, even though you're basically doing the same thing: working with polygons. For instance, my hotkeys for subobject selection (1,2,3 etc.), multi-selection, selection-highlighting, my streamline tools (q, w, e and r and their various subfunctions), loop/ring selection etc.
In essence, the uv editor is an ortographic viewport, and it displays verts/edges/polygons. I'd prefer if things worked almost exactly like in the 3d viewport, with the exception of things like extrusion etc.. tools that create geometry are obviously not possible.
This way a user can easily transition into using the uv editor, and all of his customisation just works the same in there.
It would also be great if Radial Menus would work in there.
Tiles, there is no absolute way to juge which one is a better way.
And that`s the point, that`s what i have meant. As a software developer you are best suited to fit as much needs as possible. You already have a hotkey oriented UI. What misses is a good graphical, more button oriented UI.
It seems that current users are highly accustomed using hotkeys,
Sure, because the hotkey UI is the main UI at the moment. Means you end in users that prefers hotkeys. But you cut off your software from the rest by that. It is very unlikely that somebody who is used to work with a graphical UI will pick up your software when there is no graphical UI that suits his needs.
That a graphical UI makes much much work is no question. The question is if it is worth it.
Anyways, i think i have said what i wanted to say. As told, it`s your decision. I just wanted to give some food for thought here. I am green with everything you decide. Good luck with further development
Thanks for the speedy update (as usual), and thanks for your fast reply. I LOVE the streamline tools by the way. I agree, streamline tools are the number one thing that is setting VoidWorld apart from the rest.
I tried all of your suggestions. Some work great, and others I still don't understand. Thanks for taking the time to walk me through it.
I made a mistake explaining that I couldn't assign a key to the MMB in order to toggle the display. I meant the MMWheel, not the actual depressing of the MMB. I don't see the MMW available in the hotkey assignment dropdown. I would like to be able to roll the wheel forward and backward while holding ctrl + alt to roll through the display of an object (like Silo). I would also like to assign the MMW+Shift to increase or decrease the soft selection percentage. And lastly, I would like to assign MMW+Ctrl+Shift to relax selection. Is that possible?
The extrude functionality of the streamline tool works fantastically! I had an old hotkeys setup that was breaking it for me. Also, I love how the translation hot-keys work, and how you don't have to use the handles! But thanks for adding the option to increase the size!
Lastly... I still can't figure out how to slide a partial loop. I can either slide one edge, or the whole loop, but not a partial loop (more than one edge). The default Streamline Hot-Key I'm using is "G", which is Loop Select/Slide Edges. If I don't have an edge selected and hit "G", it will slide the single edge I'm hovering over (which is cool). If I have one or more edge selected and hit "G", it selects the whole loop, then allows me to slide (also cool). BUT... what if I don't want to select the whole loop first? I just want it to slide what edges I have selected. How do I do that? My suggestion is to remove the Select Loop from the Slide functionality of the G key? I know selecting a loop and sliding is super speedy, which is great, but I think I would rather double-click the loop, then slide it so I can have the partial-loop-slide functionality... unless I'm missing something.
Thanks again! I hope these comments are helping, and not causing grief. The software is shaping up nicely!
-3Dtoons
You already have a hotkey oriented UI. What misses is a good graphical, more button oriented UI.
Maybe one could put it this way...
I guess if you are using any other SubD-Modeller that you are also using exclusively buttons, right? Could it then be that you are not perfectly aware of options and sometimes tight limits in the hotkey-driven workflow of these existing applications?
VW fills in many niches for users who prefer this workflow while Modo for instance with its tons of buttons seems very suitable for toolbar-users. While one here can also use hotkeys the ton of GUI one has to deal with at all time is something I personally don't like.
I think it is a cleverer concept to place Vw as a speciality-product. There's already a lot of apps which try to be good for everyone but in fact fail with that mission.
Replies
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Jun-20-12.rar
Summary of changes:
* The way of selecting gap loop vertices is changed to MMB + Double-LMB. It was LMB + Double-MMB.
* 'No auto naturalization' option is added to spline 'Tweak' tool.
* 'Rounded' option is added to edge shoulder style extrusion.
* Polygon Inset/Outset tool's option is changed to 'Follow inside shape' and 'Folow outside shape'.
* Segment can be changed on Chamfer/Extrusion/Inset/Loopcut tools, including the extrusion tool in retopo tool, without exiting the tool. To do that, while the tool is still live, press any number keys(excluding 0 key), '-' and '+' keys, or simply scroll WMB.
* 0 key is set to be used as option changing tool for streamline tools. For example, drag out an edge chamfer then tap 0 key to see the changes while the tool is still live. For Polygon Extrude/Inset tools, once the tool is activated press down and hold 0 key then drag out the shape. This way, the app will treat each individual selected polygon as an seperate extrusion unit.
* Creating geometry from spline in retopo tool is improved. After selecting the splines, press and hold Ctrl key then scroll WMB to set segment. Rlease Ctrl key to exit.
Thanks!
MightyPea: Please check this for edge/polygon gap loop selection, Help > Contents > Modeling > Selection Tools.
Small thing that could be changed: In the Materials section it says 'assign to object' while it actually applies the material to your selection only (which is good!)
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Jun-21-12.rar
Summary of changes:
* A bug in edge chamfer tool is fixed which may cause messy mesh rendering.
* StreamLine tool option cycling hotkey is changed from 0 key to Space key. It is customizable, Edit > Customize > Tools > Modeling Options > StreamLine Tool Option Cycler.
* Edit > Preference > General > Allow edge loop/ring collapse on highlighted edge.
Thanks!
Quick note on selection converting, edge to face currently seems to not work when not every face is closed, here's an animation where I have a vert-selection, convert it to edges, then convert that to faces (unsuccesfully in this case). At the end I manually select the faces I'd expect to see selected.
-What is loop grow?
Quote: edge to face currently seems to not work when not every face is closed.
-The reason is to keep selection unchanged when switching betweewn modes. There is an edge selection convertion tool which can do that.
edit: Oh, just saw your post.
Loop grow is like Ring Grow really, except it grows your selection one step one either side of your selection, along the loop. If you press it enough times, you'll end up with a loop-selection.
This video shows off what I mean with my workplane requests really well: [ame="
His accent is a bit hard to follow, perhaps
Those three elements were combined quite a few steps ago already, so I suspect it's something to do with that.
+1
That would be great to have!
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Jun-22-12.rar
Summary of changes:
* A bug in object scaling is fixed.
* Selection > Grow/Shrink Loop Selection. It works on vertex/edge/polygon modes.
* For primitive tools, if position is not specified and workplane is visible and locked, the new object will be place in workplane center.
* Streamline basic tool 'Snap Selection' is improved. If there is no snap point detected, world/workplane origin will be used.
Thanks!
Greg: The bone tools should work. What is you expectation?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Jun-23-12.rar
Summary of changes:
* This option is removed, Edit > Preference > General > Allow edge loop collapse on highlighted edge. Because coding has been improved to better handle the related conflict situation in streamline setting.
* Cut out lines selection states can be switched in streamline loop-cut tools. To do that, while the tool is still live, tap streamline tool option hotkey, Space key by default.
* Edge rounded chamfering is more precise.
* Streamline polygon-inset option switching is more reasonable.
Thanks!
Is ring grow/shrink in the tools anywhere? I'd like to map it to ctrl-shift wmb (grow/srhink selection is ctrl-alt-shift wmb and loop grow/shrink is on ctrl-alt wmb)
Edit: found a bug! At least, I think it's a bug.
Also, could we get a command that turns a continuous selection into an ngon? So it basically just gets rid of any internal edges/vertices. It'd be nice if this would work in any selection-mode.
Thanks again for all the rapid updates!
edit: don't ask me what I'm doing at the end of the animation. I don't know.
There is no ring grow/shrink tool yet. It seems it can only be possible in edge selection.
Don't understand what is the bug in the animated bug. It seems you have executed the 'Collapse' Command.
I'll try the inset tool again, maybe I did something wrong. In the mean time, I found another bug:
I used resymmetry right before recording this clip, just to make sure it was symmetrical, but it seems it doesn't take invisble edges into account, which can have an effect on sub-d, as well as just exporting lowpoly models.
edit: my bad! I had mine set to bevel/inset/outset. What's the difference, and how is this one supposed to work? To me it just seemed the same as the inset, as I can only get it to inset/outset, not bevel.
What is the meaning of the symmetry gif again? I found it hard to understand.
Another thing I ran into with symmetry is that not all tools work on the symmetry line, which can be annoying. Here's a gif of a chamfer:
The software should not spam the Documents folder. For settings stuff there is the Appdata directory. And the 3D Coat folder is useless for somebody like me. I don`t have 3D Coat.
There should be a way to navigate without holding a key down all the time. I even managed to achieve this in Blender. Is there a way here too?
I`m a big fan of iconized toolbars which i can place where i need it. Is this possible?
And you should really redo your page. And add a few much more shots and movies about your software.
There are iconized tool bar already and they can be place to any where you want. You can also hide them.
Yes, i`ve noticed that the software is still in development. That`s why i have commented. To give some feedback
Repeat Last Command also doesn't seem to work on these.
The Tweak_scale also doesn't work with value-snapping (ctrl).
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Jun-26-12.rar
Summary of changes:
* Collopse tool is improved to collapse to gemometry center.
* Selection > Grow/Shring Ring Selection. It works on vertex/edge/polygon mode.
* Preference > General > RMB action cancel enabled.
* Calculate Symmetry tool is improved to make polygon windings also symmetrical.
* File > 3D-Coat Applink > Applink Enalbed. Be default, it is not enabled.
* Loopcut edge selection setting is saved on app shut down.
* A new basic streamline tool, Make Quad, under polygon tools group. It convert polygon selection into quad polygons. Drag or Scroll WMB to adjust orientation.
Thanks!
why not just check for the folder when the link is executed? if 3DC is found and there is no folder then create the folder and launch 3DC. much cleaner for the user
Manipulator Tolerance: I thought I brought this up a while ago as well, but is there any way to increase the selection tolerance around the manipulator handles? I find myself accidentally missing the handle when I try to grab it, and it's really slowing me down and frustrating me.
Extrude Functionality: I'd like to hear everyone else's feedback on this. I would like extrude to be a single-button press/release. I don't like having to "drop the tool" when I'm done extruding. That is my biggest complaint about Modo (having to drop the tool after every function). It slows you down. I understand that users may want it "ON" so they can extrude over and over THEN drop the tool. But nine times out of ten, I only want to extrude once. If I want to extrude again, I just hit the hot-key again, instead of being forced to drop the tool after every use. Am I alone on this?
Slide Loop: Is there any way you could make the Slide Loop function ONLY slide the selected edges, and NOT select the entire loop first, then slide? I'm not sure how to slide the selected edges at the moment, is there a way?
Cut Edges: The Cut Tool seems to be broken when I have edges already selected, and I want to connect them. (select two parallel edges and hit cut. It creates three new edges instead of one)It seems to add edges twice. Once when you depress "cut", and once again when you let go, cutting the edges a second time. Is it something to do with my hot-key? I'm using Storm's Silo setup.
Thanks again! I haven't used Voidworld/Nvil for a while because I've been in Zbrush. But now I'm coming back to it. Congratulations on all of the fantastic updates! Thank you very much for working so hard on this!
There is a situation when you try to send an object to vw but you have never executed any 3dc applink in vw.
I will mak manipulator tolerance customizable. But you can use the the streamline axis tweak tools. By default, they are assigned to W/R/E. You don't have to interact with manipulator handles.
It is definedly possible, but VW is heavily about having to press some keys down at all times.
If this is so I wonder if VW is a Software you could like. There's some toolbars, yes but the whole interaction-concept is optimized to control the Software with hotkeys or context-sensitive Main-Menu/Marking-Menus.
Using Toolbars is a far more static concept, it inevitably requires displaying of items which currently are not applicable or alternatively permanent rebuilding of the GUI while working. Translating all the niftiness of VW into buttons meant having hundreds of them and it meant having to create new Icons every week. Also when having to press Buttons the elegance of the streamline-concept was entirely wasted.
I very much agree with the need for visual documentation but I think one should not bother Istonia with the slowest and most work-intense of all interaction-concepts.
Learning hotkeys costs lots of time. Hotkeys are not intuitive, they don`t have a place in the menu, they don`t have a tool name, and they don`t have tooltips which could tell you for what it is good for. And it is nearly impossible to keep all hotkeys for a modeling software in mind. Especially when you use more than one software. Means you will always spend time to search for the hotkey that you need where you could simply have a look in the menu.
Ever listened to a Blender 2.49 tutorial? Oh, what did he mumble? was it a s or a f? They all sound more like a dictation than a tutorial for modeling. And where it`s getting crazy is when you need your foot too to press a hotkey because you have this much tools in your software that you run out of useful hotkeys. My all time favourite for Blender is Shift+CTRL+ALT+C for a very often used tool: Origin. Happy finger breaking. Still exists in Blender 2.63.
Hotkeys only will scare away VW customers, like it did with Blender 2.49.
And that`s where toolbars comes in handy. That way the user can decide if he wants to use hotkeys for an action, or a button. In Blender i just use around 5 Hotkeys permanently. And for the rest i use the menu. I am more than happy about every software with a good working graphical UI.
Having toolbars does not mean that you are not allowed to use hotkeys anymore by the way. It`s the mix that makes it good.
In the end it`s of course iStonia`s decision if he will implement toolbars too. We will see
The software is originally designed to have a similar ui as max. The original visual ui is still there and I think It shouldn't be hard to firgure out what's what.
You are asking for icon style ui but a while ago some one comes from xsi and modo ask me to get rid of the icons and replace them with texts. I think I should leave it as is.
If you want to do things effeciently, hotkey is the way to go. For example, to extrude a face, move your cursor to highlight it, press down A key, move your mouse, release A key, done. vw's hotkey setup is highly customizable, many tools you need to setup yourself. It is not tons of hotkey setup there already for you to get used to. If you can spend some time on streamline tools, you may change your mind.
That does not mean I don't want customisable toolbars, it just means there are other things which I would like to see first.
I can of course see where you come from. Creating a useful graphical UI costs lots of time, which is in your current case better spent in developing functionality.
People are like this. They want the best things from their favourite software to be in their next favourite software. And i am not different here.
In an ideal world you could have both, toolbars with text, and toolbars with icons. That`s what trueSpace had for example. There you could switch between icons and text style buttons. Blender even has both. Text with an icon besides. But at the current point this would be overkill for your app. So yes, wise decision, i would say leave it as it is.
this.
The bad thing for hotkey style is you need to remember many keys. But in VW, one key can hold many tools since it uses mouse buttons to activate the actual tool. For a standard mouse, on key can hold up to 6 tools. You can switch from tool to tool very quickly.
many of the concepts of VW simply would not work with buttons. Have you already realized that each Mouse-Button can do something different and that a such multi-mouse-button-hotkeys dependent of the currently active Subobject-Type can mean something else?
Such would transfer into a very complex Button-Set which either would crowd the GUI (also currently irrelevant functions would be shown at any time - which I find highly un-intuitve...) or Button-Sets had to be hidden and shown depending on the context. When starting to think about this I would not have any idea on how to solve this elegantly.
I have not yet worked with a program with a comparable concept...
It seems that current users are highly accustomed using hotkeys, Therefore I think it would be consequent to even remove the set of existing basic bars. One can not drive the app with them in any reasonable fashion, so why are they there? But that's also me - I hate looking at and having to press buttons.
Again - this is not meant mean in any way but I believe that for people who need to see their tools there is more suitable Software.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Jun-27-12.rar
Summary of changes:
* Make Quad tool is improved. To change row setting, tap '-' or '+' key. To change auto relax option, tap Space key.
* Edit > Preference > General > Manipulator Tolerance.
* The following transformation basic streamline tools can repeat last action by just click its mouse button. Tweak_Scale, Plane_Move, Axis_Move, Axis_Rotate, Plane_Scale, Axis_Scale.
Thanks!
Thanks a lot for this!
I just began using the unwrapping tools, and have a few suggestions:
First off, many tools and hotkeys that I rely on for modeling don't work in the UV window, even though you're basically doing the same thing: working with polygons. For instance, my hotkeys for subobject selection (1,2,3 etc.), multi-selection, selection-highlighting, my streamline tools (q, w, e and r and their various subfunctions), loop/ring selection etc.
In essence, the uv editor is an ortographic viewport, and it displays verts/edges/polygons. I'd prefer if things worked almost exactly like in the 3d viewport, with the exception of things like extrusion etc.. tools that create geometry are obviously not possible.
This way a user can easily transition into using the uv editor, and all of his customisation just works the same in there.
It would also be great if Radial Menus would work in there.
And that`s the point, that`s what i have meant. As a software developer you are best suited to fit as much needs as possible. You already have a hotkey oriented UI. What misses is a good graphical, more button oriented UI.
Sure, because the hotkey UI is the main UI at the moment. Means you end in users that prefers hotkeys. But you cut off your software from the rest by that. It is very unlikely that somebody who is used to work with a graphical UI will pick up your software when there is no graphical UI that suits his needs.
That a graphical UI makes much much work is no question. The question is if it is worth it.
Anyways, i think i have said what i wanted to say. As told, it`s your decision. I just wanted to give some food for thought here. I am green with everything you decide. Good luck with further development
Thanks for the speedy update (as usual), and thanks for your fast reply. I LOVE the streamline tools by the way. I agree, streamline tools are the number one thing that is setting VoidWorld apart from the rest.
I tried all of your suggestions. Some work great, and others I still don't understand. Thanks for taking the time to walk me through it.
I made a mistake explaining that I couldn't assign a key to the MMB in order to toggle the display. I meant the MMWheel, not the actual depressing of the MMB. I don't see the MMW available in the hotkey assignment dropdown. I would like to be able to roll the wheel forward and backward while holding ctrl + alt to roll through the display of an object (like Silo). I would also like to assign the MMW+Shift to increase or decrease the soft selection percentage. And lastly, I would like to assign MMW+Ctrl+Shift to relax selection. Is that possible?
The extrude functionality of the streamline tool works fantastically! I had an old hotkeys setup that was breaking it for me. Also, I love how the translation hot-keys work, and how you don't have to use the handles! But thanks for adding the option to increase the size!
Lastly... I still can't figure out how to slide a partial loop. I can either slide one edge, or the whole loop, but not a partial loop (more than one edge). The default Streamline Hot-Key I'm using is "G", which is Loop Select/Slide Edges. If I don't have an edge selected and hit "G", it will slide the single edge I'm hovering over (which is cool). If I have one or more edge selected and hit "G", it selects the whole loop, then allows me to slide (also cool). BUT... what if I don't want to select the whole loop first? I just want it to slide what edges I have selected. How do I do that? My suggestion is to remove the Select Loop from the Slide functionality of the G key? I know selecting a loop and sliding is super speedy, which is great, but I think I would rather double-click the loop, then slide it so I can have the partial-loop-slide functionality... unless I'm missing something.
Thanks again! I hope these comments are helping, and not causing grief. The software is shaping up nicely!
-3Dtoons
One tool I find myself wishing I had a lot is an extrude which uses the mouse to decided the direction exactly like Axis_Move.
Maybe one could put it this way...
I guess if you are using any other SubD-Modeller that you are also using exclusively buttons, right? Could it then be that you are not perfectly aware of options and sometimes tight limits in the hotkey-driven workflow of these existing applications?
VW fills in many niches for users who prefer this workflow while Modo for instance with its tons of buttons seems very suitable for toolbar-users. While one here can also use hotkeys the ton of GUI one has to deal with at all time is something I personally don't like.
I think it is a cleverer concept to place Vw as a speciality-product. There's already a lot of apps which try to be good for everyone but in fact fail with that mission.
Not really. The one extreme is as bad as the other extreme. I use what does the job best. Sometimes this is a hotkey. Sometimes this is a toolbar.
Why fill a niche when you can have it all?