TF2 - Polypack - Ravidge

Ravidge

Outback Hunter


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Igmvn2AhY"][/ame]

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Original Post Starts here

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Be polite...

Hello.
I'm quite new to 3D modeling in general. But I love TF2 and have already spent countless hours in the SDK creating custom maps (link). I thought a competition like this would be a good source of motivation to learn modeling properly.

Be efficient...

I plan to create content for the Sniper class, the theme might be something like a hunter I guess. I'm going to start small with a hat, because I need the practice!

Have a plan...

I made a few quick sketches in photoshop for the hat that I wanted to create
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/perspective.png
Then I was so eager to start that I just sat down for a bit and actually modeled it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/SS-2010.05.29-23.26.55.png

I also managed to put it ingame, but it has no textures yet so it looks kinda awful. I have ideas for replacements for all the sniper weapon slots already in my head, but I'll let them cook for awhile before I present them.

I'm always interested in hearing what people think and improvement suggestions, so please make a quick comment!

Nerdlights

Good so far, the model defienetly needs smoothing out, and if hunting is your theme, I suggest a red/blue plaid texture, like a stereotypical hunting cap
Example:http://www.e4hats.com/images/p_banner/level_3/Buffalo_Plaid_Hunter_Cap.gif
On a side note, what program did you use?

BeRz

Is like Jotaro (JoJo's Bizarre Stories) hat:

http://image.rakuten.co.jp/fai-s/cabinet/medicos_jotaro06.jpg

http://www.bbakira.co.uk/cels/mine/jojo/jotaro03a.jpg

Ravidge

Thanks. I was a little worried about adding too many triangles so I tried to keep the count low on purpose. I might have been a little too careful though since it's only about 380 tris at the moment.
I'll see if I can smooth out some corners.

I'm probably not going for the stereotypical hunter look since I feel that the plaid texture won't fit with the rest of the snipers outfit (short sleeves and thin clothing).
Also, I'm using 3ds max.

I did throw in a very simple texture though to see what it would look like in it's current state:


Front (click)
Back (click)

It's a little featureless and bland, though that could be a good thing.. I'm not sure.

Ravidge

Not much going on in this thread, I should probably make something more interesting than hats!

I added some ear protection to make it more interesting.
And made a new texture, with added phong and rimlights to match the rest of the snipers clothes.
Anyway, I think I'm done with it (for now). I will have to go back and tweak it a bit later I suspect. Since I can already see for myself that some parts need smoothing out (especially the metal on the ear protection).

Ingame:


Model viewer:





I need a name for this hat though. Anyone got any suggestions?

Psyke

"cautious casquette"

Norron

Looks great! I definitely think that you can work some more folds into the model if it's only at about 400 tris.

Ravidge

With the ear protection added to the model I'm actually close to hitting the 800 tris limit for hats. So I will need to merge some and move them to more important areas I guess...

Anyway, I started work on my sniper rifle replacement. It's a double barreled rifle with a scope. I know it sounds a bit silly, but it does actually exist (though it's extremely rare)

It's still far from done (I'm a slow modeler!)


Here is a youtube clip of the kind of bolt action, double barreled rifle I'm after
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0s21VAJdCM[/ame]

Boo Dude5

You should like have it stay zoomed in the scope (same NOT FASTER firing rate stupid FaN) but when you fire you don't get out of your scope. Charging rate -30% and when you shoot it takes 3/5 of the charge you made up. You only have to (I'm gonna say) 'flip' the bolt every 2 shots.


PS Made an acc just to post this
PPS I'm gonna try modeling like today so I'm a newbie too!

Khthon

So Hunting? What about a Hunter's Orange for the hat?



And make the ear muffs (whatchamacallits) have a firing range decal (like a sniper cross hairs) and they can be team-colored to distinct the teams even tho the hat would be Orange.

Karkasmolenklok

Team colored earmuffs are going to look horrible with an orange hat IMO. If you go with the orange hat, keep the black earmuffs.

Ravidge

I don't think a bright orange cap would do the sniper any good. Even if it does fit the character, it doesn't fit the gameplay. As a sniper you don't want attention, so a low profile headgear is probably the best choice.

I can try experimenting with team colored earmuffs and see what happens. But I'm rather fond of the black ones


Here is an early render of my rifle

Still lots to do.

Karkasmolenklok

Ravidge wrote: »

I don't think a bright orange cap would do the sniper any good. Even if it does fit the character, it doesn't fit the gameplay. As a sniper you don't want attention, so a low profile headgear is probably the best choice.

You could always go for a more faded/dull orange which, on most maps (which tend to have kind of dull orange tones anyway, see: dustbowl, gold rush, 2fort, etc.) would probably serve more as camouflage.

Besides, doesn't the sniper already have a yellow hat and a white hat? Orange isn't that bad.

Ravidge

I need some opinions on the scope design. Feel free to mix parts between them!



Edit: extra
Combination of #3 scope and #4 supports.



Currently the rifle body looks like
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/DoubleStandard.png

Pogo

4 looks nice and similar to the original. 2 looks good but stick the end part of 3 on it, maybe skew the proportions a bit too, more hourglass shaped.

Tahrinya

Hat is very cool, keep up the great work (:

Ravidge

Thanks Pogo and Tahrinya!

I asked around in some other places, and in general people seemed to dig #3 and #5 the most.



Any last input before I go ahead and Texture it? If not, I'll start on that tomorrow.

Fragus

I LIKE!

Khthon

Can we get a comparison shot with the default rifle model? It's good but seems kind of plain.

Ravidge

Is plain a bad thing though? I'm trying for a more professional look. Because I think the sniper with his latest unlocks is straying further away from his original concept and more into a silly-australian-adventurer. Which is great in it's own way. But it's not what I'm going for with this particular weapon.

Comparison as requested.

Simski

The Hunter's cap makes him look like Scout, lol.

Khthon

It looks almost too similar to me - the silhouette isn't a big enough difference to tell from a distance. I don't think another normal scoped rifle is really going to catch Valve's attention, man.

You also need a theme.

And I think the logo on the headphones is a bit blurry, maybe the Sniper class logo instead would work.

If your theme is "Hunting" you could make the rifle more interesting by adding a Ghillie wrap -




Even just a couple net/strap like model additions with jiggle bones around the rifle would make a big difference.

Psyke

is your theory that everything looks better with ghillie khthon?

Ravidge

Khthon wrote: »

It looks almost too similar to me - the silhouette isn't a big enough difference to tell from a distance. I don't think another normal scoped rifle is really going to catch Valve's attention, man.

You also need a theme.

And I think the logo on the headphones is a bit blurry, maybe the Sniper class logo instead would work.

If your theme is "Hunting" you could make the rifle more interesting by adding a Ghillie wrap -

-snipped out images-

Even just a couple net/strap like model additions with jiggle bones around the rifle would make a big difference.

You bring up good points, and I think a discussion could happen since my view differs from yours

If you compare the default loadout against their unlock replacement, it's clear that most weapons share the same silhouette. But NOT the color and/or sound. Just looking at shape makes a lot of them indistinguishable from a distance.

[U]Small silhouette difference.[/U]

Flamethrower - Backburner
Grenade launcher - Sticky bomb launcher - Scottish resistance
Minigun - Natascha
Revolver - Ambassador - Big kill
Scattergun - Force-a-Nature
Syringe gun - Blutsauger
Rocket launcher - Direct hit
Bonk Atomic Punch - Crit-a-cola
Sandvich - Dalokohs bar
Medigun - Kritzkrieg
Bat - Sandman
Fire axe - Axtinguisher
Kukri - Tribalman's shiv

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[U]Medium difference:[/U]

All melee weapons not mentioned elsewhere.
Pyro's Shotgun - Flare gun
Scout's Pistol - Lugermorph
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[U]Big differance:[/U]

Sniper rifle - Huntsman
Bottle - Eyelander - Scotsman's skullcutter
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[U]New concept weapons, no replacement counterpart: (Obvious silhouettes)[/U]

Buff Banner
Chargin' Targe
Jarate
Razorback
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[U]Old weapons with no replacement counterpart: (also Obvious silhouettes)[/U]

Engie's Pistol
Heavy's Shotgun
Sapper
Build tool
Demolish tool
Disguise kit

Now, if you consider color and sound as a part of the whole deal, an average player could probably tell a blutsauger from a syringe gun with no problem. But we are talking about silhouettes here.

Very few items in this game has a unique silhouette. And from what I can see, Valve is trying to keep the number down too by making their replacement share existing animations and shapes.*

*or they're just lazy, either way the result is the same.

Sure there are exceptions, but ALL the primary weapons except the huntsman fit in the "small difference" category. And ALL the melee weapon unlocks share animations from their default (character stance is the important thing here), you can easily see if a person has their melee weapon out or not. The exception being the demoman, but his replacements are so distinct it doesn't matter.

This is my reasoning for keeping the shape similar to the default model.
Have a missed the point completely here though? Should I actually have made a outrageous and hilarious model instead?

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I did consider Ghillie camouflage when planning, but dropped the idea cause it just doest work if only one part of your outfit uses it. Sure I could make all my items use that theme, but then again. A player may choose to just use the rifle and I'd be back at the "he looks like a complete pillock" track again.

My idea of a hunter is more of the Moose and Bear hunting type. Like these guys (warning, lots of dead animals! http://www.albertaoutfitting.com/biggamephotos.html)

Ravidge

I've been busy with other projects, but with the break I've also had time to think about what to make next. And I've gone through numerous ideas, some amazing stuff but not fitting together with my other stuff as a woodland (guess you could say "TF2's alpine theme") hunter character.

After some extensive thinking I've settled on the "Woodman's Pal". A knife/machete that has been in service since 1941, and is exceptionally good at clearing paths in the forest for such a small tool.

It's backstory of being both a survival tool and weapon for many many decades, and having it used by several nations in WWII as a standard issue knife are also good reasons to pick this design, in my opinion.



The original Woodman's pal model was not aimed at warfare and did not have the handguard. Personally I think the sniper is a class that avoids close combat and actually only keeps a knife for it's usefulness as a tool, so I decided to leave the guard out to make it look less like a sword

I made a quick mockup in about an hour, and then another hour to UV, add colors to it + exporting it to game.


It's just a little bit smaller than the default kukri, as seen in this comparision: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/SS-2010.06.11-16.02.37.png


It's far from done, I just wanted something to show so people can come with suggestions if they have any.

Karkasmolenklok

Awesome, someone's finally doing it. It's a thing of beauty.

Ravidge

I do understand that my rifle is looking a lot like the default gun, but a rifle is a rifle. Even with 2 barrels I don't expect it to ever look like something else.

But I've been looking into possible "attachments" to make. and sketched some down.

1) default
2) my current shape
3) +extras

So which of these should I add? ALL? none? just one?
If you have more suggestions that would be lovely.

And the knife! For example you could suggest me to add a strap to the handle??

Khthon

Why not make the military melee tool look like he's used it for years getting through the wilderness. Sap/scrapes/pitting. Maybe put a whetting stone (for sharpening the blade) strapped onto the dull side of the blade?





I like all the extras in #3, it might impress the 'military' feel if he's really gone all out with the operational additions.

Ravidge

I'm pretty much set on using the "Woodman's Pal" design. Here is a much closer picture from the model viewer instead of ingame.



As to not steal the actual name, I've been thinking of calling it the "Bushman's Mate" or similar, thoughts?

Khthon

Sure, why not.

Karkasmolenklok

Ravidge wrote: »

"Bushman's Mate"

Exactly what I was thinking.

Ravidge wrote: »

I do understand that my rifle is looking a lot like the default gun, but a rifle is a rifle. Even with 2 barrels I don't expect it to ever look like something else.

You definitely want to remember that the original rifle is exaggerated proportions. You can do the same but go in a different direction.

Ravidge wrote: »

So which of these should I add? ALL? none? just one?
If you have more suggestions that would be lovely.

And the knife! For example you could suggest me to add a strap to the handle??

Add a strap to the handle, maybe with some sort of accessory attached to it like a little rodent skull or a gator tooth or something. Perhaps tallies scratched into the side.

As for the rifle, I'd go for something along the lines of Van Pelt's from Jumanji.

Boylee

A jiggleboned shoulder strap would certainly make it look different.
I also quite like the idea of an extended mag, I'd say it could even be larger still.

I'd be wary of pimping it out too much with extra bits though, it's anice shape as it is. You could probably distinguish it enough with the textures alone. Especially since the Fuch's rifle usually has such exquisite detailing on it.

Khthon

@Kark - You made me want to go watch Jumanji again! What a fun movie.

Good call on the strap.

Ravidge

Thanks for the shoulder strap idea, I quite like it. If I can make it behave to gravity with jigglebones properly, I will probably run with that idea for the rifle.

Meanwhile I've had some trouble with getting the melee weapon into the viewmodel. Obviously replacing the Tribalman's Shiv is the easiest way (since it's only a c_model for world and viewmodel). But for some obscure reason that I can't work out the sniper is holding my knife the wrong way around. But only in the viewmodel, the worldmodel is working perfectly fine.

Is this something coded into the shiv? and is there a easy way to fix it? If I could avoid making v_models altogether that would be really nice.

viewmodel (c_model replacement)


worldmodel (same c_model)

Benvil

Ravidge wrote: »

Thanks for the shoulder strap idea, I quite like it. If I can make it behave to gravity with jigglebones properly, I will probably run with that idea for the rifle.

Meanwhile I've had some trouble with getting the melee weapon into the viewmodel. Obviously replacing the Tribalman's Shiv is the easiest way (since it's only a c_model for world and viewmodel). But for some obscure reason that I can't work out the sniper is holding my knife the wrong way around. But only in the viewmodel, the worldmodel is working perfectly fine.

Is this something coded into the shiv? and is there a easy way to fix it? If I could avoid making v_models altogether that would be really nice.

viewmodel (c_model replacement)


worldmodel (same c_model)

Well, I can tell you that the reason for this is that the very same problem exist with the Shiv. Valve being lazy, it still haven't been fixed and is still held wrong in the view model.
As for a way to fix it? I have no idea, sorry ;(

BaronVonFail

the shiv flipping thing is due to a bug. as the shiv its self is also the wrong way around. this cant be fixed until valve fix it. so god knows when that was.

Karkasmolenklok

If it flipped when you crit, that would be fantastic.

Ravidge

I'm currently trying to finish up my work. I've done my best but seeing as these are some of my first 3d models ever, I don't expect to get very far in the competition

Nevertheless I'm pretty pleased with my results so far.



I'm trying to get the strap jiggleboned but everytime I add bones to the model it refuses to compile (it can't find the polymsh33 bone anymore, which is/has been there all the time). It's quite a hassle and I don't have any solution...

Ravidge

I also just did some work on the hat.
Added AO and some small touches to the mesh.

By mirroring the earprotection I can make it much higher res, but it also makes it impossible to write anything on them :P
In the end I settled for a vertical and mirror-able word: AIM
Other suggestions are welcome!
This will be the last chance to change anything on the hat, so speak now or be forever silent. Comment on anything and I'll make changes If I agree.

Svdl

Round the corners of the visor, perhaps?
I mean something like this:

Mico27

+1 for the rounded visor

Zipfinator

Yeah the visor is the weakest part of the hat. Rounding those corners would be good but maybe adding a few more polys to the curves would help too.

Ravidge

Thanks guys, I did some quick chamfers to see the result.


Looks better in my opinion so I'll be sticking with it.
I'm already pushing past the 800 tri limit (thanks to the earprotection) so I'd rather not add any extra tris if I don't absolutely have to.
Keep suggestions coming if you have them though.

Khthon

Any updates on the rifle? the hat seems about done.

Ravidge

Khthon wrote: »

Any updates on the rifle? the hat seems about done.

No, the most recent image I have is the one in post 38 in this thread.
It has no shaders at all currently, so it looks very bland ingame. And it still looks like a normal rifle, which doesn't help popularity around these parts

Thanks for the bump though. I might go grab an ingame shot later today.

Ravidge

Ingame screenshots as I promised earlier. I think I'm pretty much done with the rifle, unless something urgent pops up. I don't have much time to spare and I'm as happy as one can be with the texture.





Now I need to finish the texture on the knife and then do small things like collision meshes...
If I have time to spare I'll make something small as a misc :P

Buck

Looks great!

En Ex

I love the hat, and the knife is perfect for the Sniper's personality.

Ravidge

I've submitted my stuff, but seeing as there is plenty of time left, I decided to make a small misc.

The Saxton Stache


Since it's in the rules to post your wip work, I'm leaving this image here

Ravidge

Well, that was a quick one.


Every self-respecting Australian sniper has to have a saxton stache.
I'll give it another few hours before submitting so IF someone has something to say, you'll have a chance to get yourself heard

Boylee

It all looks great Rav, get submitting!