Who cares as long as it's fun? That's the whole point.
Personally, I can't stand games with physically strong lead female characters, not sure why. That said i enjoyed the kill bill series of films. Death proof, a movie where a bunch of annoying chicks kill Kurt Russel also by Terrintino I have a seething hatred for. I don't have a point, just blathering, interesting how "gender" can affect our enjoyment of random polygons generated by a computer. If the gameplay was good i'm sure i wouldn't mind all that much playing as a chick.
Vagina monsters have appeared in quite a few games here (and scores of movies). My wife said "Wow that game looks really good." didn't bat an eye at the ubersex... but then again, she does like Tokyo Gore Police (has a man eating vagina) and stuff like that.
I didn't think too much into why Bayonetta was doing much of anything, I just enjoyed the game.
I'm pretty sure it is overly sexual on purpose. One of the "punish" moves involves you spanking monsters. Here is a video of the Joy creature introduction, so awesome.
I thought i beat the last boss last night, but then i found out i have more chapters to get through haha... i cant wait to see what the final boss is like, especially after fighting the one in chapter 11.
I feel like im finally getting better with the combat and combos, still need more practice though! It really gets fun when the combos flow well and you're able to accurately dodge attacks. all the combos are a bit overwhelming, but everything ties together so smoothly it never feels like you are "failing"
this game is blowing me away. it's so much better than I expected. probably the best action game I've ever played, and already in a running for my GOTY for '10. (though I think GoW3 and ME2 will have something to say about that.. not to mention Galaxy 2)
it just keeps getting better too. I'm 5 hours in at chapter 6, and it's just awesome.
if you like Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden you're probably going to like this a lot. especially if you liked DMC.
oh, and the story telling is actually very well done for this kind of game!
And for your info, all the girls I know want to play the game because they think it looks cool.
Also, i think it's just as degrading that you assume most woman can only design for men in order to survive in this industry. I'll let you in on a secret, most girls find women attractive. Shocking I know.
This game isn't even as bad. The only time she looses her 'clothing' is during her combo finishers. There have been many more female figures dressed in far less in almost every single fantasy game ever.
Heaven forbid that women out there might want to be sexy because they can and have the confidence to do so. Not for the sole purpose of a man's desire or because a man told them to do so.
Either way, the game is fun as hell so I'm going to go back to it and hopefully get up to chapter 8 or so today.
I wasn't debating her design wasn't geared towards men.
you said:
There are plenty of women who know how to design for straight men's tastes. It's called "how to succeed in a male dominated industry.
Thus making the claim that in order for women to succeed in a male dominated industry, they must tailor their tastes in asthetic design around what men want.
I said:
Also, i think it's just as degrading that you assume most woman can only design for men in order to survive in this industry. I'll let you in on a secret, most girls find women attractive. Shocking I know.
Meaning that I know plenty of female designers that when given no limitations on their designs, will in fact design women to be sexy.
You know what? fuck this.
Can't you go elsewhere?
Leave this topic to people who want to talk about the game itself and not turn it into a sludge pool of political debate. I'm tired of all this 'holier than thou' attitude.
I'm all for political debate, just not in a thread where we're talking about throwing churches at dragons.
Perhaps a 'Sexism in the Industry' topic would be great for this, but I personally think it's off topic and just downright flame baiting in this current topic.
Ask a real women, or several, if it's sexist/misogynistic or not. As horny straight men you're probably not the best judge of what kind of thing does or doesn't objectify and demean women.
Clearly, our hetero horndog natures are so overpowering that we can't possibly judge for ourselves. What we really need is a gay man to tell us straight men whether or not women will find the game misogynistic. Also, do you know if these shoes go with these pants? I can chug beer and change a tire, but this girly stuff is totally beyond me.
I'd love to hear what your girlfriends think.
My wife, a woman getting her graduate degree in feminist literature, watched me playing the demo. She thinks it looks like fun.
Disagree. I don't think gender is any more relevant than an individual chooses to let it be. There's nothing inherent about being a straight male that makes one prone to misogynistic views. If anything, it's a byproduct of culture. Straight men raised in cultures that don't respect women likely won't respect women; straight men raised in cultures with strong, respected female figures likely will respect women.
If we assume your opinion is correct, is there a corollary that straight women are poor judges of misanthropy?
*edit*
Posted after Ben's ninja edits, but leaving my post here since it's relevant to my previous post. To keep it on-topic, Bayonetta roxorz
So far I'm really liking fighting against the two angels with the claws. I think they did a great job forcing me to use my witch time.
Generally i rarely block in any game I play but this one has really made me take a step back and think about my next move.
yeah... those things are fucking insane. Probably the most challenging enemies in the game for me. There are a few moments where there are 2 sets of 2 back to back, where you really have to push to be perfect.... or lucky After their introduction, they keep getting faster and doing more damage. Later there are uber versions of them too!
I think i need to slow myself down while playing, the more methodical you are about fighting in it the easier the game is, despite throwing 1000000 million things at you visually. I've been watching a few videos of people play it, strangely it makes sense and looks more elegant
i think im going to end up playing this game for a while!
this does look like a fun game (and i've always been a fan of the dmc series).
Anyone picked this up on ps3 and found the probs mentioned really gamebreaking?
If it's still very playable and isn't as annoying as it sounds like in a number of reviews, looks like my food money will be going towards video games again this month (seems like i can give darksiders a miss atm)
Finally picked it up today (I know, two day's wait, so gruelling! :P) and really loving it so far. Haven't had much time to play today, only an hour, so I just finished the first chapter.
Dayumn! I was worried about combos being too hard to pick up, but especially with help from the loading screen, I'm already getting the hang of it! The combos are very rewarding. I inwardly giggle whenever I can end a combo that makes her use up a lot of her 'hair' :P
The style is so cheesy, but so awesome. I love Bayonetta. Her and her over-the-top 'British' accent. Her design is ace. I've seen the images that make her head look way too small, but it's really NOT noticeable in the game. She just looks awesomesauce
Can't wait to play more. But need sleep. ... Maybe...
Oh, and as for the PS3 version: the loading times can be pretty nasty, but haven't come across anything too bad otherwise.
P.S. I know we're not getting into the debate here, but as a female, I can tell you that I am not offended at all. IMO, I dislike seeing big, ugly bulky guys all over a game (ie. Gears of War) way more than sexy ladies. I quite enjoy designing pretty/sexy gals myself.
Mind you, I may be a biased example of females...
It's okay to not like the character design or the combo moves, but they are NOT misogynistic in any way. I mean, the word just does not mean that. Sexy/Kinky does not mean "hate for women".
As a matter of fact it's hard to find misogynist traits in any form of entertainment. Even bondage porn rarely qualifies.
The point in the demo it was sold to me was after the big boss fight in the paradise gardens (the guy with the big axe), after killing him, then picking up his axe without using her hands, i was bloody impressed heh.
Loving it more and more .... but the save system is horrible. Basically lost 2/3 of my evening session because I was assuming I went through autosave checkpoints but really didnt. Terrible!
Edit : okay I got it. Manual saves bring you to the beginning of whatever chapter. Autosaves do happen, but they are different data. They are accessed by selecting 'play > continue'. However if your last checkpoint was like, close to the very end of a chapter (aka a good hour of playtime), but you load an old or even the latest manual save, then it brings you at the beginning of the current chapter instead of the last reached checkpoint. So basically whenever you load a manual save you GO BACK.
idk nothing about this game appeals to me on any level.
i hear its really good but it seems like it will be one of those good games i will never even try.
maybe its just i dont like the character design at all, or all the wired hair/suit/attacks things. just seems to stupid for me. i would rather kill things with chained blades or a ninja sword
Most people think this is a button masher. But to get a nice chain to air to finish that can kill all on screen enemies is really hard. Switching yourvweapons mid combo changes the branching or can extend. You can just mash on the buttons, but it will take a long time to kill the enemies. Learning witchtime is a must.
i don't understand when people call games that have a shitload of moves "button-mashers". if you choose not to learn the executions...then yea....you are mashing buttons. but for those that appreciate the depth of a combat system, and choose to LEARN the moves, it's a totally different experience. it's only a "button-masher" by CHOICE.
Just finished it, can echo what skank was saying... its unbelievably and completely over the top amazing. It way crazier than the end of Final Fantasy 8 and 9, just completely bonkers.
Cant say enough good things about the game, and when you beat it you unlock a 3d model viewer, and go for platinums (though i did already get the achievement... must get rid of all those stone awards)! annnd time to play through on hard ><
I saw some videos where some dude had Ice Skates. I want those. Must collect all the records and items!! ammmgggg
it's labeled a 'button masher' by people who don't know what the hell they are doing. the game is clearly much deeper than that.
and I think its really funny how a lot of people are hating on the game for the same reason a good amount of us love it: the complete ridiculous over-the-top-ness. it's so fucking great.
And just as I predicted from all my experience playing the DMC games... I REALLY suck at this one too :P
In chapter II, after way too many 'continues', I finally make it to what I think is the end of the level, and the boss (dragon head snapping at me and throwing fireballs?) BUT. Of course, I keep dying non-stop. His attacks are really, really hard to block...
Is this actually a hard boss, or do I really just suck this much?? :P
I'll feel like such a n00b having to switch from normal to easy... :poly122:
Just finished chapter 5 - after trying a couple of time to defeat the boss. Good lord I suck at this; I remember it taking me months to really nail DMCs fighting system to a point where I was mediocre :< Gonna be the same with this... I don't mind - it's still a cracking game.
Okay can someone confirm.
Is there a way to pick up the game mid-chapter (at the last reached checkpoint) the next day? Like after turning off the console.
I've hit many checkpoints on my way during my last session, and they let me successfully spawn back at will. I wanted to keep the church/dragon boss for today just for the fun of it, loaded the 'continue' thingie this morning and ... it brought me back at the beginning of the chapter?????
Playing damn chapter 2 for the third time now. As a matter of fact I am okay with the system, but they should EXPLAIN it!! It's not even mentionned in the manual
Because of this BS I played chapter1 fully three times and I am on my third run on chapter2 now too. I love that game but this makes me want to throw it out of the window. Given the playtime hours I gave it so far I should be at chapter5 already, thats extremely frustrating ...
holy hell this game is destroying my life. i've already dumped 20 hours into it. beat it on normal. went back to get the ice skates and rocket launcher guns, and now i'm going after all the alfheims.
They basicly took the devil may cry formula and fixed ALL the things that annoyed me about the franchise. no more limited continues, now the dodge isn't on a face button. The combo system while harder to build up, is much more forgiving to maintain. and witch time FUCKING rocks. while bullet time existed in other games it never felt so right as it does here. I think it's cause you are rewarded for timing your dodges correctly.
anyone else finding it impossible to beat the tutorial level on hard? i can't get past the part where you have to do 3 torture attacks. so hard to build up the magic when you dont go into witch time when you dodge. I guess i could just use items to pass it, but to me that feels like cheating.
back to back to back claw angels in the airplane torcher sequence?!?! wuuuttt argh. Is there an easy way to trigger a torcher mode, or do you just have to getlucky with timing? Cant seem to get more than one of them there... No witch mode there is sad
Went back and started replaying on normal to boost my combo score and overall trophy score. horray!
started on normal mode straight away, put quite a few hours in it (chapter 12 now), really liking it, the gameplay is really awesome and mastering all the move to end up with nice clean combos is really hard, but rewarding (bats morph ftw).
will probably try to 1000G this one since I really enjoy playing it, just for the show.
I really enjoy playing the game but some of the cutscenes are just painful to watch. The first cutscene with that fat Danny DeVito-like character was just awful. And All the ones with Luka are pretty dumb too. I hope that character has some kind of Johnny Sasaki type turnaround because right now he's about as lame as Japanese game characters get. (I'm at chapter 7 right now)
That all said I do think the story stuff involving Bayonetta's past and Bayonetta's actual personaility are pretty nice.
I've heard other criticism about the cutscenes and story elsewhere, but I'm actaully really enjoying them. They tie well into the whole style and theme of the game, imo And I just enjoy anything that Bayonetta does/says. Always awesome/kickass.
Mind you, I am a big JRPG fan, so maybe I'm just really used to this style of story and characters... :P
I'm so proud of myself.. got my first gold statue! (Was on the prologue chapter, but still!) More awesomeness awaits...
yeah I'm honestly not sure of the hate on the story... I can actually follow it, and it's paced very well.. I can't really say that about many games personally lol. I'm assuming it's because it's off the wall and since it's an action game people disregard it off the bat. oh well.
Anyone manage to beat that one heaven optional time attack bonus stage when you're supposed to beat all the Angels with only "hair" attacks? On chapter X I believe. I can make it till the wave with the big guy with shields, but time runs out ... Is there a specific item to have to beat that stage? Spent an hour on it ... but at least now I know all the attacks like no one else hehe.
Anyone manage to beat that one heaven optional time attack bonus stage when you're supposed to beat all the Angels with only "hair" attacks? On chapter X I believe. I can make it till the wave with the big guy with shields, but time runs out ... Is there a specific item to have to beat that stage? Spent an hour on it ... but at least now I know all the attacks like no one else hehe.
I tried that one several times but didn't beat it.
The only ones I've beat were the beat the angels with their own weapons only, and no witch time one.
Well yeah I tried for a good hour, even managed to make it to the last (?) wave without taking a single hit ... but I feel like I am missing an ability from the Gates of Hell, to make my hairy stuff more powerful maybe, or to get longer witch time ...
Anyone manage to beat that one heaven optional time attack bonus stage when you're supposed to beat all the Angels with only "hair" attacks? On chapter X I believe. I can make it till the wave with the big guy with shields, but time runs out ... Is there a specific item to have to beat that stage? Spent an hour on it ... but at least now I know all the attacks like no one else hehe.
that one wasn't too bad, you just need to use the wicked weaves!
the way I did it was cheap but it worked haha, I used the Y B Y sword weave. it's three buttons and creates a huge slash. I just ran away, started my combo, and by the time i pulled it off they were close.. rinse and repeat!~
Yup thats what I do too (except I like slash>slash>dodgefire>kick better hehe). So I think I am missing some item increasing the strength of the weaves ... DId you buy any of the Cleopatra rings stuff? I have none of them ...
the only accessory I could afford outside of techniques on my first playthrough was he doppleganger one... haven't tried any of the others unfortunately.
were you able to beat the Alfheim where you could only use like 7 punches and 5 kicks? I have no idea how to do that
the only accessory I could afford outside of techniques on my first playthrough was he doppleganger one... haven't tried any of the others unfortunately.
were you able to beat the Alfheim where you could only use like 7 punches and 5 kicks? I have no idea how to do that
you can do claw feet + sword hands. You just have to do a lot of the charge attacks for massive damage. If you use the claws as fire, you can prime bombs and charge the 360 sword attack.
I finally beat the first level on hard (doozy!) and working through the rest now. Haven't had much time to play, but it isnt nearly as difficult as that torcher section! haha.
I'm going to go for full Alfheim now, but i do only have about 20 more chapters to complete until i unlock the nunchucks! Also want to do the < 3 hr playthrough, fastest time was 3:22 on normal... so close!
Replies
Who cares as long as it's fun? That's the whole point.
Personally, I can't stand games with physically strong lead female characters, not sure why. That said i enjoyed the kill bill series of films. Death proof, a movie where a bunch of annoying chicks kill Kurt Russel also by Terrintino I have a seething hatred for. I don't have a point, just blathering, interesting how "gender" can affect our enjoyment of random polygons generated by a computer. If the gameplay was good i'm sure i wouldn't mind all that much playing as a chick.
I didn't think too much into why Bayonetta was doing much of anything, I just enjoyed the game.
[ame]
I thought i beat the last boss last night, but then i found out i have more chapters to get through haha... i cant wait to see what the final boss is like, especially after fighting the one in chapter 11.
I feel like im finally getting better with the combat and combos, still need more practice though! It really gets fun when the combos flow well and you're able to accurately dodge attacks. all the combos are a bit overwhelming, but everything ties together so smoothly it never feels like you are "failing"
it just keeps getting better too. I'm 5 hours in at chapter 6, and it's just awesome.
if you like Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden you're probably going to like this a lot. especially if you liked DMC.
oh, and the story telling is actually very well done for this kind of game!
where the fuck does that happen?
And for your info, all the girls I know want to play the game because they think it looks cool.
Also, i think it's just as degrading that you assume most woman can only design for men in order to survive in this industry. I'll let you in on a secret, most girls find women attractive. Shocking I know.
This game isn't even as bad. The only time she looses her 'clothing' is during her combo finishers. There have been many more female figures dressed in far less in almost every single fantasy game ever.
Heaven forbid that women out there might want to be sexy because they can and have the confidence to do so. Not for the sole purpose of a man's desire or because a man told them to do so.
Either way, the game is fun as hell so I'm going to go back to it and hopefully get up to chapter 8 or so today.
you said:
Thus making the claim that in order for women to succeed in a male dominated industry, they must tailor their tastes in asthetic design around what men want.
I said:
Meaning that I know plenty of female designers that when given no limitations on their designs, will in fact design women to be sexy.
You know what? fuck this.
Can't you go elsewhere?
Leave this topic to people who want to talk about the game itself and not turn it into a sludge pool of political debate. I'm tired of all this 'holier than thou' attitude.
I'm all for political debate, just not in a thread where we're talking about throwing churches at dragons.
Perhaps a 'Sexism in the Industry' topic would be great for this, but I personally think it's off topic and just downright flame baiting in this current topic.
Clearly, our hetero horndog natures are so overpowering that we can't possibly judge for ourselves. What we really need is a gay man to tell us straight men whether or not women will find the game misogynistic. Also, do you know if these shoes go with these pants? I can chug beer and change a tire, but this girly stuff is totally beyond me.
My wife, a woman getting her graduate degree in feminist literature, watched me playing the demo. She thinks it looks like fun.
Carry on.
If we assume your opinion is correct, is there a corollary that straight women are poor judges of misanthropy?
*edit*
Posted after Ben's ninja edits, but leaving my post here since it's relevant to my previous post. To keep it on-topic, Bayonetta roxorz
So far I'm really liking fighting against the two angels with the claws. I think they did a great job forcing me to use my witch time.
Generally i rarely block in any game I play but this one has really made me take a step back and think about my next move.
yeah... those things are fucking insane. Probably the most challenging enemies in the game for me. There are a few moments where there are 2 sets of 2 back to back, where you really have to push to be perfect.... or lucky
I think i need to slow myself down while playing, the more methodical you are about fighting in it the easier the game is, despite throwing 1000000 million things at you visually. I've been watching a few videos of people play it, strangely it makes sense and looks more elegant
i think im going to end up playing this game for a while!
Anyone picked this up on ps3 and found the probs mentioned really gamebreaking?
If it's still very playable and isn't as annoying as it sounds like in a number of reviews, looks like my food money will be going towards video games again this month
Dayumn! I was worried about combos being too hard to pick up, but especially with help from the loading screen, I'm already getting the hang of it!
The style is so cheesy, but so awesome. I love Bayonetta. Her and her over-the-top 'British' accent. Her design is ace. I've seen the images that make her head look way too small, but it's really NOT noticeable in the game. She just looks awesomesauce
Can't wait to play more. But need sleep. ... Maybe...
Oh, and as for the PS3 version: the loading times can be pretty nasty, but haven't come across anything too bad otherwise.
P.S. I know we're not getting into the debate here, but as a female, I can tell you that I am not offended at all. IMO, I dislike seeing big, ugly bulky guys all over a game (ie. Gears of War) way more than sexy ladies. I quite enjoy designing pretty/sexy gals myself.
Mind you, I may be a biased example of females...
Must have something to do with the misogynistic idealization of the protagonist not fitting my taste in women...
edit - i guess i should clarify that the second paragraph here is sarcasm
As a matter of fact it's hard to find misogynist traits in any form of entertainment. Even bondage porn rarely qualifies.
Wow!
The game gets CRAZY!
I thought throwing a church at a dragon was awesome, but man... I wasn't ready for the end...
I don't want to say anything, but man, for those of you that make it that far, it's EPIC.
The point in the demo it was sold to me was after the big boss fight in the paradise gardens (the guy with the big axe), after killing him, then picking up his axe without using her hands, i was bloody impressed heh.
Edit : okay I got it. Manual saves bring you to the beginning of whatever chapter. Autosaves do happen, but they are different data. They are accessed by selecting 'play > continue'. However if your last checkpoint was like, close to the very end of a chapter (aka a good hour of playtime), but you load an old or even the latest manual save, then it brings you at the beginning of the current chapter instead of the last reached checkpoint. So basically whenever you load a manual save you GO BACK.
BORDEL DE MERDE QU'ILS SONT CONS CES JAPONAIS!!!
i hear its really good but it seems like it will be one of those good games i will never even try.
maybe its just i dont like the character design at all, or all the wired hair/suit/attacks things. just seems to stupid for me. i would rather kill things with chained blades or a ninja sword
Well, one of your weapons is a Saumrai sword...
You also have giant flame claws, a chained whip, and various guns.
You can configure them however you want and switch between two configurations on the fly during combos or when you're just standing around.
Cant say enough good things about the game, and when you beat it you unlock a 3d model viewer, and go for platinums (though i did already get the achievement... must get rid of all those stone awards)! annnd time to play through on hard ><
I saw some videos where some dude had Ice Skates. I want those. Must collect all the records and items!! ammmgggg
and I think its really funny how a lot of people are hating on the game for the same reason a good amount of us love it: the complete ridiculous over-the-top-ness. it's so fucking great.
In chapter II, after way too many 'continues', I finally make it to what I think is the end of the level, and the boss (dragon head snapping at me and throwing fireballs?) BUT. Of course, I keep dying non-stop. His attacks are really, really hard to block...
Is this actually a hard boss, or do I really just suck this much?? :P
I'll feel like such a n00b having to switch from normal to easy... :poly122:
P.S. Still sooo awesome, though!! XD
Is there a way to pick up the game mid-chapter (at the last reached checkpoint) the next day? Like after turning off the console.
I've hit many checkpoints on my way during my last session, and they let me successfully spawn back at will. I wanted to keep the church/dragon boss for today just for the fun of it, loaded the 'continue' thingie this morning and ... it brought me back at the beginning of the chapter?????
Playing damn chapter 2 for the third time now. As a matter of fact I am okay with the system, but they should EXPLAIN it!! It's not even mentionned in the manual
Because of this BS I played chapter1 fully three times and I am on my third run on chapter2 now too. I love that game but this makes me want to throw it out of the window. Given the playtime hours I gave it so far I should be at chapter5 already, thats extremely frustrating ...
WTF!!!
They basicly took the devil may cry formula and fixed ALL the things that annoyed me about the franchise. no more limited continues, now the dodge isn't on a face button. The combo system while harder to build up, is much more forgiving to maintain. and witch time FUCKING rocks. while bullet time existed in other games it never felt so right as it does here. I think it's cause you are rewarded for timing your dodges correctly.
anyone else finding it impossible to beat the tutorial level on hard? i can't get past the part where you have to do 3 torture attacks. so hard to build up the magic when you dont go into witch time when you dodge. I guess i could just use items to pass it, but to me that feels like cheating.
back to back to back claw angels in the airplane torcher sequence?!?! wuuuttt argh. Is there an easy way to trigger a torcher mode, or do you just have to getlucky with timing? Cant seem to get more than one of them there... No witch mode there is sad
Went back and started replaying on normal to boost my combo score and overall trophy score. horray!
will probably try to 1000G this one since I really enjoy playing it, just for the show.
oh and my gf said it was looking really fun.
That all said I do think the story stuff involving Bayonetta's past and Bayonetta's actual personaility are pretty nice.
Mind you, I am a big JRPG fan, so maybe I'm just really used to this style of story and characters... :P
I'm so proud of myself.. got my first gold statue!
I tried that one several times but didn't beat it.
The only ones I've beat were the beat the angels with their own weapons only, and no witch time one.
that one wasn't too bad, you just need to use the wicked weaves!
the way I did it was cheap but it worked haha, I used the Y B Y sword weave. it's three buttons and creates a huge slash. I just ran away, started my combo, and by the time i pulled it off they were close.. rinse and repeat!~
were you able to beat the Alfheim where you could only use like 7 punches and 5 kicks? I have no idea how to do that
I was told to use the claws for that one.
woo, thanks man (finally picked it up today
damn i love this gameplay and these controls... only played the mini prologue bit so far but it's soo much fun ^____^
you can do claw feet + sword hands. You just have to do a lot of the charge attacks for massive damage. If you use the claws as fire, you can prime bombs and charge the 360 sword attack.
I finally beat the first level on hard (doozy!) and working through the rest now. Haven't had much time to play, but it isnt nearly as difficult as that torcher section! haha.
I'm going to go for full Alfheim now, but i do only have about 20 more chapters to complete until i unlock the nunchucks! Also want to do the < 3 hr playthrough, fastest time was 3:22 on normal... so close!