I really do love how guns look in that engine, great work man really great work. Just make me want to steal you and bring you to work at monolith more.
Sandbag, either you are one of those nerds that spend 9/10 of the game looking if everything is real and then nagging in message boards about it instead of actually playing it for fun, or you have an awesome sense of humour.
yeah he has some feedback that's something outside of "i came"
he must be joking
what a nerd?
great stuff
EQ, f'n great shit. What is to happen w/ 8m? Are they working on something new? Did you leave the studio? Editor shots posted a while back make the engine look killer. Hopefully we see a model viewer at some point.
Yeah, I really hope you release a modelviewer, always loved the way your engine handles specularity and the crispness of the textures, GIEF!
As for being picky with guns, etc... I dunno, I'm not a big fan of overdoing it with reference images, but there are alot of gun/military hardware nerds out there I remember some comments from users about World in Conflict after we finished that, and we were really strict with the military hardware...
but i don't like them picky people, better 100% awesome than 100% authentic, I say
Sandbag: You're in the minority - and when you're making an entertainment product (a game) for a mass market, and the mass market wants to see "cool stuff" (guns), they don't care quite so much that the breech/cocking level/recoil mechanism/whatever I don't even know what guns consist of/bits aren't in the right place or in working order.
Take a look at some of the UT weapons, they don't make a huge amount of sense, but they have massive pistons and tanks full of goo that slop around, and parts which rotate and let off steam - we don't care what they're for, they just look massive, mean and death-dealing!
So while your critiques may be valid, I fear you're in a tiny minority here, and everyone else simply doesn't care - I'm not trying to sound callous or condescending, that's just the way it goes with retail/mass market games. And I'm sure you already knew that.
when a game like unreal (which is called "unreal") wants to be over the top, huge, UNREAL, and just out of this world whacky, then it doesn't matter so much that the weapons don't really make sense.
when a game is clearly geared toward "realism with a twist", then making a weapon believable is everything. and you'd be surprised how many FPS players out there actually pick up on the faultpoints in game guns.
Very nice work EQ, I think it's hard to produce artwork that carries the same modelling and texture style throughout considering the difference seen here between assets. No wonder you are art lead. btw No, I'm not kissing bottom, this is just one of the things I am still getting to grips with.
Hope to see some more from you soon
I know a guy who looked at this gun in a game and said "the bullets are all lined up sideways in the magazine, there's no way it could work LOL."
WOW THIS GUN DOESN'T HAVE A MAGAZINE! ROFL! HOW IS IT SUPPOSED TO WORK?! AND WHAT'S THAT BIG BOX THING UP TOP ANYWAY? I CAN TELL THE GUY THAT DESIGNED THIS GUN HAS NEVER SEEN A GUN BEFORE! LOLOLOL!
Who knows what mechanism is in EQ's SMG that makes it work. And who cares? The angle the magazine attaches at is what makes it nifty and cool and different from anything I've ever seen before. I'm jealous I didn't think of it myself.
I say strange magazines FTW!!!! People who worry too much about "realism" are missing the point. EQ's gun is definately in the top 5% of guns I've seen in games.
I know a guy who looked at this gun in a game and said "the bullets are all lined up sideways in the magazine, there's no way it could work LOL."
WOW THIS GUN DOESN'T HAVE A MAGAZINE! ROFL! HOW IS IT SUPPOSED TO WORK?! AND WHAT'S THAT BIG BOX THING UP TOP ANYWAY? I CAN TELL THE GUY THAT DESIGNED THIS GUN HAS NEVER SEEN A GUN BEFORE! LOLOLOL!
Who knows what mechanism is in EQ's SMG that makes it work. And who cares? The angle the magazine attaches at is what makes it nifty and cool and different from anything I've ever seen before. I'm jealous I didn't think of it myself.
I say strange magazines FTW!!!! People who worry too much about "realism" are missing the point. EQ's gun is definately in the top 5% of guns I've seen in games.
IMO.
There is a world of difference between the way shell ejection works and the way ammunition feeding works. Suffice it to say that with the ejection port at a different angle from the barrel you would need a complex mechanism to eject each shell, and complex + fast ROF is a recipe to jam. Packing bullets into a unique magazine is much different than moving the ejection port.
if the ejection port was in line with the barrel, the gun would look much more functional. I think it looks awesome in the FPS view (which is really what matters), but the ejection port is one of the few animated parts of a gun like this typically, which makes it attract the eye, and it looks odd.
oh, awesome art, btw. Any chance of a hint when we might be hearing more about the game? "Done with art production" makes it sound close, but it is also worrying with respect to planning, as I haven't seen any kind of info or attempt at marketing the game. . .
oh, awesome art, btw. Any chance of a hint when we might be hearing more about the game? "Done with art production" makes it sound close, but it is also worrying with respect to planning, as I haven't seen any kind of info or attempt at marketing the game. . .
Soon is all i can tell you at this point. Gauss is working on cutting up some trailers that we should be releasing very soon, and i'll be sure to post those.
I think the breakdown between Sandbag's points, and "fun factor" in game comes down to 1 central issue. When you look directly at a model render, you're not necessarily critiquing it on it's in-game asset as you are a model itself. To go into MoP's point about in-game stuff, if these were screenshots, I think most of the stuff Sandbag broke down might be more easily over-looked.
I'm one of those people that likes the realism in gameplay/assets (I was a huge Rainbow Six fan back in the day due to their realistic use of modeling for their weapons and sounds, as well as recoil and accuracy), but I don't necessarily weigh that as a make or break for a game. I've never been huge into the spacey futuristic side of gaming as a whole due to my discrepencies with mechanical issues(but I think this stems more from a standpoint that I'm a mechanical engineering major), but I like the majority of these weapons.
I think my favorite out of what you posted is probabl the black powder weapon, but I'm not quite sure whether to call it a long pistol, or a rifle. Maybe that is what Sandbag was hitting on, as it's hard to really tell what it is meant for. Proportionally, it says pistol, and I think a lot of that has to due with the thick trigger-guard and obviously the long stock and scope generally says rifle.
Basically, it all comes down to this. I believe if you showed all the hand-held weapons in a FPV senario as it would be in game, it might have helped the people like myself and Sandbag overlook some thing. Looking at your original post of the render, I would have had issues also, but looking at the FPV shot you showed, I didn't honestly notice it as much.
Anyway, congrats on the project, and it looks pretty solid. The texturing is pretty beautiful.
For the sake of Dolemite (and the fun of beating a dead horse) here is a quick image as to why the p90 is a good bit less mechanically zany than the other smg:
The P90 just has to rotate the bullet 90 degrees and it's ready to drop straight into the chamber and then be ejected directly out the body (the ejection port is directly under the end of the magazine on the other side). Where as the other gun has quite a twisty path to get to the barrel and then also to be ejected.
Then...well obviously I like the craftsmanship of the gun because I found myself chopping it up to be a little easier on the mechanics...Which is really the only reason I care at all, these are well made weapons, but there are little changes that could make them even better to a mechanically centric firearm fan.
The frontloading magazine is fine, and the way its angled in looks really cool (although at first in the side view I didn't realize it was the magazine and thought it was some sort of grenade launcher
The ejection port being at an angle is the weird bit. all that needs to change is the angle of that and the gun makes sense from the outside. It's the fact that its angled thats weird.
And honestly, it isn't that big of a thing. its just that it being angled like that would cause the gun to jam a lot more
Oh yeah, thats perfect. You've manged to take all of the interesting parts of the gun, and put them exactly where they should be! Behind the camera and never visible to the player, yay! =D
Sandbag we could play armchair gun professors all day long, but as EQ and others point out it's a compromise between looks, the specific nature of first person weapons in the FPV, and then the specific mechanics last.
i'd say your commments would be better founded if the gun were presented in the game as a wholly conventional gun, but it isn't, and most important of all is that an iconic gun profile gets turned into an ugly bullpup.
the trouble with your paintover is that it's assuming it's an SMG that fires conventional rounds, which it does not. in the game it has roughly double the capacity of even most traditional 9mm SMGs, and gameplay-wise it has moderate auto-targeting--two things that work to support its unconventional profile, rather than work against. the gun's mechanisms are never explicated in any real way, so we are free to assume what might be inside it for such an unusual profile... but try using your imagination to make it work, rather than make it boring.
maybe some special caseless ammo. flechette rounds, who knows. some overcomplicated feed mechanism that IS prone to jamming. any student of gun design knows there are any number of overthought and generally unsound guns that get made, many bullpup designs falling into that category.... truth is usually stranger than what we can come up with.
EQ's version of the gun is cooler i thinl EQ has done a great job. for me while playing a game i dont think about "hmm is that right? can it shot with that blablabla" i wanna kick some asses with the guns so EQ nice job :thumbup:
also shame on any gun nerd for not totally pouncing on that luger, more than any of the others. EQ made that shit up, true story. if you want to talk about fidelity of representation, the luger is the worst of the lot. take that joe you lazy, gun-making-up ass
also shame on any gun nerd for not totally pouncing on that luger, more than any of the others. EQ made that shit up, true story. if you want to talk about fidelity of representation, the luger is the worst of the lot. take that joe you lazy, gun-making-up ass
This is very true. The luger i modeled was a total bastard child of the standard luger, mixed up with the extended barrel crazy luger, and then totally exaggerated proportions. Jack has a fucking PERFECT luger that he got from his dad, and seeing it way after i made mine, there was a lot of little things that i missed.
Funny, i was just talking about this with per.
Theres so much lost between picking up a real gun, actually being able to touch it, move its parts around, etc... to seeing some preset animations from a very specific viewpoint play over and over in a game. Really just lost in translation.
Its a shame, but thats the reality. You have to maximize the design, for how it will be viewed. Thats something we learned throughout the project. A lof of our "future" guns that we first did, were VERY grounded, very sensible designs. But in the end, they ended up looking more modern(or even less modern that some real, actual modern designs(f2000, ect) than remotely future. Which is a big shame when you consider the potential for contrast there, in one part of a level you're playing with a musket, and another part you can have this more fantastical futuristic weapon, that you're not entirely sure how it works, but he it looks cool.
Oh btw, thanks guys, you woke Gauss from his hidey-hole. Now you're all gonna get banned.
lol, i wasn't trying to say that the models were bad, or that the art is shitty, or even that the gun was badly designed.
you can keep the mag where it is, i never said that part wouldn't work. all you have to do is alter the angle of the ejection port. learn to take crits, bitch.
Wait wait wait, you got it all wrong, it actually shoots out the angled bit. That top bit isnt a barrel, its really just a flashlight. Hope that clears it up.
I'd offer a bar of soap to help get all the sand out of your vaginas, but that might just be over the line. I sure am thinking it loudly though!
Ironically, the firing mechanisms of the Pulse Rifle from Aliens are very realistic, though largely due to the fact that it's made almost entirely out of a benelli spas12 and a tommy gun. The prop guns actually worked and fired blanks. Thanks for proving my point though as it's one of the most popular fictional guns out there.
I'm glad constructive criticism is the devils work as long as you're a good artist with enough clout to keep the jizz train rolling.
Wait wait wait, you got it all wrong, it actually shoots out the angled bit. That top bit isnt a barrel, its really just a flashlight. Hope that clears it up.
ooooooh! now i get it!!! people will think you're aiming above them while you're actually shooting them in the face! element of surprise and all that!
Props to getting this gun on the Polycount Black banner! woot. But seriously though, if all we're concerned about is what's interesting to the player the thing needs about 150 more lights and moving parts. Lets put some real effort into it next time.
I'm glad constructive criticism is the devils work as long as you're a good artist with enough clout to keep the jizz train rolling.
I understand your problems with it and the points you bring up would be very much valid, if my main goal was to make a realistic, function weapon. As clearly stated, multiple times, the goal was to create a non-traditional design, focusing on good, readable details near to the player camera. I think the current design does an excellent job in this case.
When the criticism is completely counterproductive to the actual goals of
the project, how does it remain constructive?
It would be like posting in someone's thread, who has concepted a fiction character, and complaining that this character dosen't look anything like brad pitt. When its clearly stated the the inspiration was infact a big giant scary alligator they saw in a terrible nightmear about clowns.
But honestly, who could blame you for being obsessed with Brad Pitt? He's sooo dreamy.
Replies
-caseyjones
yeah he has some feedback that's something outside of "i came"
he must be joking
what a nerd?
great stuff
- BoBo
Congrats!
Awesome looking stuff all around!
As for being picky with guns, etc... I dunno, I'm not a big fan of overdoing it with reference images, but there are alot of gun/military hardware nerds out there
but i don't like them picky people, better 100% awesome than 100% authentic, I say
keep it the good work dude
That model viewer sounds really good, also.
So good. I know you said you can't show textures, but have you got wires that you could show?
Amazing work. I think each piece deserves a splash sheet of their own.
when a game like unreal (which is called "unreal") wants to be over the top, huge, UNREAL, and just out of this world whacky, then it doesn't matter so much that the weapons don't really make sense.
when a game is clearly geared toward "realism with a twist", then making a weapon believable is everything. and you'd be surprised how many FPS players out there actually pick up on the faultpoints in game guns.
too bad the vehicles dont reach the quality of your weapons.
the face melting gun looks awesome. is it based on your own concept?
Hope to see some more from you soon
I know a guy who looked at this gun in a game and said "the bullets are all lined up sideways in the magazine, there's no way it could work LOL."
WOW THIS GUN DOESN'T HAVE A MAGAZINE! ROFL! HOW IS IT SUPPOSED TO WORK?! AND WHAT'S THAT BIG BOX THING UP TOP ANYWAY? I CAN TELL THE GUY THAT DESIGNED THIS GUN HAS NEVER SEEN A GUN BEFORE! LOLOLOL!
Who knows what mechanism is in EQ's SMG that makes it work. And who cares? The angle the magazine attaches at is what makes it nifty and cool and different from anything I've ever seen before. I'm jealous I didn't think of it myself.
I say strange magazines FTW!!!! People who worry too much about "realism" are missing the point. EQ's gun is definately in the top 5% of guns I've seen in games.
IMO.
There is a world of difference between the way shell ejection works and the way ammunition feeding works. Suffice it to say that with the ejection port at a different angle from the barrel you would need a complex mechanism to eject each shell, and complex + fast ROF is a recipe to jam. Packing bullets into a unique magazine is much different than moving the ejection port.
if the ejection port was in line with the barrel, the gun would look much more functional. I think it looks awesome in the FPS view (which is really what matters), but the ejection port is one of the few animated parts of a gun like this typically, which makes it attract the eye, and it looks odd.
Soon is all i can tell you at this point. Gauss is working on cutting up some trailers that we should be releasing very soon, and i'll be sure to post those.
oh and awesomeness
I'm one of those people that likes the realism in gameplay/assets (I was a huge Rainbow Six fan back in the day due to their realistic use of modeling for their weapons and sounds, as well as recoil and accuracy), but I don't necessarily weigh that as a make or break for a game. I've never been huge into the spacey futuristic side of gaming as a whole due to my discrepencies with mechanical issues(but I think this stems more from a standpoint that I'm a mechanical engineering major), but I like the majority of these weapons.
I think my favorite out of what you posted is probabl the black powder weapon, but I'm not quite sure whether to call it a long pistol, or a rifle. Maybe that is what Sandbag was hitting on, as it's hard to really tell what it is meant for. Proportionally, it says pistol, and I think a lot of that has to due with the thick trigger-guard and obviously the long stock and scope generally says rifle.
Basically, it all comes down to this. I believe if you showed all the hand-held weapons in a FPV senario as it would be in game, it might have helped the people like myself and Sandbag overlook some thing. Looking at your original post of the render, I would have had issues also, but looking at the FPV shot you showed, I didn't honestly notice it as much.
Anyway, congrats on the project, and it looks pretty solid. The texturing is pretty beautiful.
The P90 just has to rotate the bullet 90 degrees and it's ready to drop straight into the chamber and then be ejected directly out the body (the ejection port is directly under the end of the magazine on the other side). Where as the other gun has quite a twisty path to get to the barrel and then also to be ejected.
Then...well obviously I like the craftsmanship of the gun because I found myself chopping it up to be a little easier on the mechanics...Which is really the only reason I care at all, these are well made weapons, but there are little changes that could make them even better to a mechanically centric firearm fan.
The ejection port being at an angle is the weird bit. all that needs to change is the angle of that and the gun makes sense from the outside. It's the fact that its angled thats weird.
And honestly, it isn't that big of a thing. its just that it being angled like that would cause the gun to jam a lot more
Johny loves the gayshit.
Joe has shrunken testies.
i'd say your commments would be better founded if the gun were presented in the game as a wholly conventional gun, but it isn't, and most important of all is that an iconic gun profile gets turned into an ugly bullpup.
the trouble with your paintover is that it's assuming it's an SMG that fires conventional rounds, which it does not. in the game it has roughly double the capacity of even most traditional 9mm SMGs, and gameplay-wise it has moderate auto-targeting--two things that work to support its unconventional profile, rather than work against. the gun's mechanisms are never explicated in any real way, so we are free to assume what might be inside it for such an unusual profile... but try using your imagination to make it work, rather than make it boring.
maybe some special caseless ammo. flechette rounds, who knows. some overcomplicated feed mechanism that IS prone to jamming. any student of gun design knows there are any number of overthought and generally unsound guns that get made, many bullpup designs falling into that category.... truth is usually stranger than what we can come up with.
The other stuff is also very good looking.
This is very true. The luger i modeled was a total bastard child of the standard luger, mixed up with the extended barrel crazy luger, and then totally exaggerated proportions. Jack has a fucking PERFECT luger that he got from his dad, and seeing it way after i made mine, there was a lot of little things that i missed.
Funny, i was just talking about this with per.
Theres so much lost between picking up a real gun, actually being able to touch it, move its parts around, etc... to seeing some preset animations from a very specific viewpoint play over and over in a game. Really just lost in translation.
Its a shame, but thats the reality. You have to maximize the design, for how it will be viewed. Thats something we learned throughout the project. A lof of our "future" guns that we first did, were VERY grounded, very sensible designs. But in the end, they ended up looking more modern(or even less modern that some real, actual modern designs(f2000, ect) than remotely future. Which is a big shame when you consider the potential for contrast there, in one part of a level you're playing with a musket, and another part you can have this more fantastical futuristic weapon, that you're not entirely sure how it works, but he it looks cool.
Oh btw, thanks guys, you woke Gauss from his hidey-hole. Now you're all gonna get banned.
you can keep the mag where it is, i never said that part wouldn't work. all you have to do is alter the angle of the ejection port. learn to take crits, bitch.
Ironically, the firing mechanisms of the Pulse Rifle from Aliens are very realistic, though largely due to the fact that it's made almost entirely out of a benelli spas12 and a tommy gun. The prop guns actually worked and fired blanks. Thanks for proving my point though as it's one of the most popular fictional guns out there.
I'm glad constructive criticism is the devils work as long as you're a good artist with enough clout to keep the jizz train rolling.
ooooooh! now i get it!!! people will think you're aiming above them while you're actually shooting them in the face! element of surprise and all that!
I understand your problems with it and the points you bring up would be very much valid, if my main goal was to make a realistic, function weapon. As clearly stated, multiple times, the goal was to create a non-traditional design, focusing on good, readable details near to the player camera. I think the current design does an excellent job in this case.
When the criticism is completely counterproductive to the actual goals of
the project, how does it remain constructive?
It would be like posting in someone's thread, who has concepted a fiction character, and complaining that this character dosen't look anything like brad pitt. When its clearly stated the the inspiration was infact a big giant scary alligator they saw in a terrible nightmear about clowns.
But honestly, who could blame you for being obsessed with Brad Pitt? He's sooo dreamy.