Quarantine Map

ae.

Quarantine Map
Originally started as a L4D map ive decided rather to us the unreal engine.

Objective:
My objective in creating this map is to wrap my head around the UE3, this will help me utilize all my models to there full potentianl ingame and help me understand the normal work flow needed to not only make eye catching models but also polish up on my level design.

Basic Theme:
The map will take place in a busy street wich has been quarantined off by the goverment. there will be several paths in the sorrounding area (i.e: alley, staircases, shops, and underground train station.)

Layout:
Ill post this up when its finalized

Prop list:
Truck Asset
Latest Update:
UE3ed shot 2: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/edgetruckLOWHIGH4-2.jpg
old updates:
Viewport grab: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/edgetruckLOWHIGH3.jpg
UE3ed shot 1 : http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/edgetruckLOWHIGH4.jpg
First texture Pass: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/edgetruckLOWHIGH2-1.jpg
Flat shaded model with lowpoly+normal map: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/edgetruckLOWHIGH.jpg


Ill try to keep this thread tidy and updated with all the work i will be starting in the next couple of weeks. all feedback would be great.

Snipergen

Hello, nice to see that people are getting ready to make custom L4D maps! I like the idea you got.
About the model, are you sure you want to spend filesize on a prop like this? Since there is already a prop that looks exactly like this in sourcemodels.cfg if I'm right.

The thing is that server hosts are very picky when it comes to filesize and maps that look good are bigger than stupid orange maps, certainly with custom content pakratted in the .bsp. I think you got my point
Good luck!

ae.

Snipergen wrote: »

Hello, nice to see that people are getting ready to make custom L4D maps! I like the idea you got.
About the model, are you sure you want to spend filesize on a prop like this? Since there is already a prop that looks exactly like this in sourcemodels.cfg if I'm right.

The thing is that server hosts are very picky when it comes to filesize and maps that look good are bigger than stupid orange maps, certainly with custom content pakratted in the .bsp. I think you got my point
Good luck!

i get what your saying thanks for the tip :P but i want to showcase my skills as an artist and a level designer.

I was going to make a hummer model also but i know from the demo that they already have one. right now im just gonna try to plan everything out so ill be able to make a simple blockout of what i want in hammer then just play test that until i feel it runs good and it plays good. then add all that assets i will create hopefully it wont be too big for the servers.

ae.

Quick update unlit scene with diffuse+normal want to get some crits before i do a spec pass i also like to note everything on this piece was hand drawn by me using a mouse the only thing i photosourced was the head lights then i drew over them to give them to give that mud effect.



Bigger shot: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/edgetruckLOWHIGH2-1.jpg

butt_sahib

Is your not using photoref.'s a personal challenge? If not, theres no harm in overlaying some nice detail.But thats just me.

Lets see the specular do its magic!

renderhjs

I absolutely dont like the smoothing groups,- they are messed up and equal all over the place- fix that and the model might look alot better.
Right now you dont have hard edges or flat surfaces simply because of the way you used the smoothing groups.
Texture looks good though

ae.

renderhjs wrote: »

I absolutely dont like the smoothing groups,- they are messed up and equal all over the place- fix that and the model might look alot better.
Right now you dont have hard edges or flat surfaces simply because of the way you used the smoothing groups.
Texture looks good though

Hey thanks for the crit, let me just clarify this you want me to give the different sides of the vehicle different smoothing properties? so the edges look harder?

butt_sahib

@ renderhjs:
Um, arent you supposed to have a single smoothing gropu all over if youre using normals?
*goes back to the normal mapping thread"

renderhjs

if he normal maps yes- but once you are done a nice smoothing group set could support the model.

? so the edges look harder?

exactly

what I meant is this (although overdone a bit)


I myself have a script that quickly lets me slide the smoothing angle of selected faces or objects (context sensitive) - that way I can quickly highlight or change parts of a object without the hassle of the polymodifier interface or the smooth modifier.

butt_sahib

ah yes i figured right after i posted that you must have meant to do it after projection.Though possible, i didnt know that you should/could do that. thanks for the info!

ae.

Hey renderhjs thanks for the info ill give it a go when i get 3ds max installed on my new computer

ae.

updated it tried out your technique renderhjs it came out really bad so i just stook to what i had :S

i updated the texture and threw it into ut3 but the normals are not popping like i would like check them:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/edgetruckLOWHIGH4.jpg

and heres a 3ds max viewport grab:

mikezoo

I like the way this is turning out.
I am guessing your normal map issues could be in how you created your material in UT3

Cybroxide

When you import your normal try to import it with the compression setting to TC_Normal map and also LOD set to World_Normal.

I think it would be a good idea if you multiplied your spec power value to something like 35 - 75
It might help bring the spec out more in unreal.

SHEPEIRO

youve gone from not enough surface detail to way to much turn it down somewhat

butt_sahib

and the wheels are still too dark to read

ae.

butt_sahib wrote: »

and the wheels are still too dark to read

thanks for the tip im guessing its because the contrast on my computer might be higher than some other user so ill add more definition and highlights to the wheels.

also ill be playing around with unreal ed alll weekend to see why its messing up

Quick Edit:

i was look on UDN and i came across the bumpoffset feature im not at home right now but could i use that to modify normal in the ue3 material editor?

Cybroxide

the bump offset is used to create a parallax effect in your material, usually you have a height map associated with it. while this does "push" your normal more it can also create some pretty distorting effects if used with too much strength.

ae.

Cybroxide wrote: »

the bump offset is used to create a parallax effect in your material, usually you have a height map associated with it. while this does "push" your normal more it can also create some pretty distorting effects if used with too much strength.

yeah i dont think ill be using it its really distorts the model, ill probably just have to edit the normal in photoshop.

EarthQuake

butt_sahib wrote: »

@ renderhjs:
Um, arent you supposed to have a single smoothing gropu all over if youre using normals?
*goes back to the normal mapping thread"

Idealy yes, but we do not live in an ideal world More often than not, this rule will mess up someone just starting out with normals, because they do not understand why. Just like saying "only use quads", but not actually understanding why, and that its not a hard rule you always have to follow(few things are).

What it comes down to is this, a tangent space normal map needs a good amount of geometry to be accurate, you cant use the same smoothing group on really hard angles and except them to come out correct, you'll get nasty smoothing errors. The more geometry you have around those hard angles, the more accurate the surface normals on your lowpoly mesh will be(normals are averaged, so if you have to extreme values, averaging produces less than ideal results) the more accurate your lowpoly mesh's normals are, the better it can support a normals map. Its best to do some tests with whichever software/renderer you're going to be using to find out exactly what does and doesn't work.

Often times it can be better to just *simplify* your lowpoly mesh, remove some of the details that could be represented with just the normals map, because IMO atleast, having a lower-poly less-detailed mesh that has a flawless normals bake on it is WAY more convincing that a super-detailed lowpoly mesh with everything modeled in, but tons and tons of smoothing errors. You basically have two options other than keeping a very simple mesh, and those are; Use smoothing groups to seperate hard edges, which can result in nasty seems depending on software/method/uv layout/etc or add in extra geometry to accomodate for errors.

ae.

added power modeifier to the specualr and fixed the normal map issue

butt_sahib

Excellent excellent amount of info EQ, very much appreciated it

Stumbled upon this bit of information some time ago (backing up with what you said,with pixxx) and proved extremely usedful on the polywiki ofcourse

renderhjs

looks better to me now

ae.

renderhjs wrote: »

looks better to me now

hahah thanks man means alot coming from you

also you know the way to told me to do the smoothing groups i just realised i actually did it your way instead of smoothing everything. the windows are a different smooting grop and so are the window trim i think the only thing that has the same smoothing group all around is the main cab :P

sprunghunt

just a small note.

I would put the graffiti down the bottom of the truck and not at the top. People aren't that tall. ;^)

Here's a reference pic to show what I mean.
http://www.untitledname.com/archives/upload/2005/7/df-graffiti-face-truck.jpg

ae.

thanks for the ref, ill be sure to fix it

heres some modular work i did for the sidewalk:

SHEPEIRO

ive never seen a pavenment like that befor its like clay, are you zbrushing per-chance, it also seams you have a poly spread imbalance aswell ie lots of detail in the edges and not enough in the centres of the sculpt

PixelMasher

yea, i agree with shepeiro on the pavement. The normal looks to be way to extreme in most areas, really blobby with no form that reads as cement. normally a sidewalk is smoothed over and then given a tiny bit of texture to stop slippage, this looks like it was made out of plastercine or clay.

I would create a hard surface model 1st, then maybe sculpt a little variation into the edges to make it a little more organic, then the rest of the detail i would probably add through detail overlays in the normal map. that way you should have a decent level of control over the forms. also the low poly is pretty chunky on the outside of the curve maybe add more edge support.

ae.

Thanks for the crits guys i scrapped the sidewalk, i was looking at the sidewalks in ut3 and i liked them, kinda tried to copy them. then i looked at the sidewalks in tokyo and realised i went in the wrong direction and needed to go in a more realistic route. the current sidewalks im making ar double the width and not green :P gonna take your advice and just make a high-poly in 3ds max and add the detail through crazy bump and maybe some zbrush.

for the direction of the map i will being going for a western take on tokyo/ New york in the year 2020

anyways update wise i blocked out the map wich will end up being a duel map for ut3 might put it up for playtesting when i have more done. right now im gonna make a list of things to do before putting on the set dressing:

- 3 modular building meshes + textures
- 3 modular doors + 3 modular windows + textures

those are my goals for the next week as i have an 8 hour workdays i only really have 4 hours a day to work on my stuff wich should be enough to complete all those assets.

as soon as i finish those ill make new goals. ill be putting the truck on the side for now until i complete the more important aspects of the map.

again im glad for everyones input and look forward to get more.

ae.

finished these when i got home from work today also finished blocking out my level just need to add the art and lighting and weapon pick ups :P so i still got a alot to do!

thos wall is just going to be used for 1 main building and a secondary building wich you wont be able to access i still need to make 4 more varations on the building materials.



and i finished this sidewalk my friend told me it looks metallic is this true?




just a quick note the normals on the walls are really stong so they show better when i import it into ut3 my normals usually get lost in translation when i import my models.

PixelMasher

the sidewalk looks a million times better, the curve is still chunky though, dont be afraid to add quite few polys for a nice silhouette, anything under 600 tris in unreal is pretty much free, especailly since the way it instances the props.

the normal for the bricks on the wall is really bad. you can see where you cloned the bricks in the wave its created. the bricks themselves don't really have punch from surface to grout, it looks like it was just run through shape recognition in crazy bump rather than from a properly painted height map. as for UE3 normals, make sure you level all the channels to get the most out of the color range and nuetrallize the blue channel on any overlays to the normal maps so it doesn't destroy the depth below it.

i like the design of the shop front, the windows and door look like they make sense, looks like you have some type of reflection going on in there which is good to see. the geo is could use some beefing up, like a slight chamfer to all the razor sharp corners especially where the bricks form the pillars.

looks like this is progressing nicely man.

butt_sahib

Hey A.E

Excellent progress
Agree with PM about the bricks tho.
Even though i understand that you KINDA want to get over with the wall with just the nvidia normal filter, it is ACTUALLY more effective,rewarding if you actually either paint in a height map OR model the bricks in. its just a matter of making a block and move them in place DONT BE LAZY
Should give you some experience with modular work aswelll

ae.

how would i go about painting a hight map? also when i get home ill throw these into ut3 see how it looks if they dont look good ill redo the normal maps for these

note: i made a wall texture before like this on the weekend did the high-poly by hand came out like crap in ut3 but awesome in 3ds max :S , workflow wise for the effect i want i think a crazybump pass is good enough, but the most important thing is how it looks ingame if it looks like shit ill redo them quality over quantity thats my modo ill try to be "less lazy " in my future attempts

butt_sahib

Just some quick googling
http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Height_Map_Tutorial

You could even do it inside of unreal :
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-paint-the-height-map-of-a-terrain-in-unreal-editor-197025/

PixelMasher

a simple height map (same as a bump map) would be just a greyscale with the grout darker than the brick surfaces. you could go more in depth by varying some bricks brightness to make it seem more natural and less cg. then just use the generate normal from height map in crazy bump. this is how 2d normals should be generated, not by just running shape recognition, you will get way better results and have far more control over it.

ae.

sup guys they came out great in ue3 the textures look so crisp when you walk up close to them :P im happy guess what im gonna work on tonight?



i wish i had some better lighting in my scene but imma worry about the lighting after i finish most of the art.

update:



still need to make a modular roof for all the buildings

butt_sahib

To be honest AE, i still dont like it. Its all mushy and crazybump-y dude.
Here let me give you an example.i made this a ling time ago when i just took a phtot>nvidia filter boom. But look at how mushy things are.

if you REALLY dont want to make a high poly for it, i read a tutorial somehwere, i think it was on zburshcentral, where for alphas for the skin, the artist did two things.a) obviously desaturated it and b) (my favourite) he did a height filter where the height from the photo was lessened and the acual pores/scars became more distinct with better values. dont exctly remember the name of the filer but was along the lines of height map or something.
At least do something about it...really bringing the piece down man. plus the EXTREMELY obvious repetition isnt doing any good either.

ae.

ill redo the normals and fix that repition tommorow its gonna be easier to fix now that the stuff is ingame and i can just replace the textures also i made a hieght map for the windows :P im using that for now on worked wonders :P

again thanks for the crits bro really helping me out maintain some quality in my work :P

butt_sahib

definitely, would be unfortunate to see a piece of this level to go down

ae.

hey butt_sahib i tried out your technique and whil i was at it i fixed the wall textures and also gave them a more pleasent color just want some crits before i throw the textures ingame and replace the old one?

carlo_c

The new is looking a lot better, maybe mix it up a tad with some dirt but yeah thats looking 100 times better. The "wavy" repetition is gone too

ae.

on my next building im just gonna make the bricks and normal map them. save me some headachs.

Saidin311

I found this to be of great help when deciding to use CB for normal maps (from photo ref) etc.

http://www.hull-breach.com/Talon/temp/normalMapMiniTut.jpg

ae.

Saidin311 wrote: »

I found this to be of great help when deciding to use CB for normal maps (from photo ref) etc.

http://www.hull-breach.com/Talon/temp/normalMapMiniTut.jpg

thanks for the link saiden thats what i did with the new normals :P

ae.

sorry for the lack of updates been really busy with work stuff:



this is gonna be the trim with a red/brown brick backsplash. and ill be making thos by hand to get better normals

JasonLavoie

Lose the starbucks logo (make something yourself, maybe a mom and pops type coffee shop)... I also don't get the black shading around the windows?

PixelMasher

yea i agree with the losing the starbucks logo, it seems kinda lazy/unoriginal. also, the texture overall seems really dark and its losing most of the detail.

remember most of the time with in game lighting you are only adding shadow and color to your textures in the end, so if you have something super dark its gonna be unreadable when shadows are multiplied over top of it, plus you would have to really crank your lights to get it brigher, thus effecting other objects nearby in the scene.

its best to have an overall level of brights and darks in your texture, you could you could probably fix this by simply adjusting the levels. keep the progress coming!

ae.

quick update fix the shadows jason was talking about, also it might just be my monitors really bright so i make things a little darker ill fix that right away.

Also i wasent bring lazy with the logo i went for some starbucks before work near my house and really like how it was layed out, i was gonna make my own coffee shop in the level but really liked the colorscheme in the starbucks.

If its a HUGE! issue ill change the logo personally i like it and dont really think it takes away from the piece at all. but thats my opinion but my opinion really dosent count cause im trying to sell myself as an artist and if the viewers of my material dont like it i should change it.

Midna

looks awesome lol :P but i prefer my Timmy's !!!

ae.

Midna wrote: »

looks awesome lol :P but i prefer my Timmy's !!!

timmy ho's is pretty good :P

JohnnyRaptor

id say lose the starbucks logo too, in a real situation, it would be copyrighted and ud get in trouble without permission and fees and what not. just relable it slightly and twist the logo maybe. or not...