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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    Same project, different part. This piece is deceiving. I thought it would be easy at first, but the more I worked on it, the more I realized how tough it is. Any tips?

    pUd5htu.jpg

    kCw7Zw8.jpg

    My progress so far, before running into problems with the cutout for the circular piece:

    m1MXVcr.jpg
    vhyKP82.jpg
    10ISsjd.jpg
    oRf5ElS.jpg

    Having a hard time keeping that top part nice and rounded with the bottom edges staying sharp.
  • Nam.Nguyen
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    Nam.Nguyen polycounter lvl 9
    I think the quickest way is boolean

    resNJzg.jpg
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    Perna, now that I look at it, it's not as bad as I thought it was last night. I think the boolean technique will work better for that cutout though. Thanks Nam!
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    Try chamfering the top edges as well (like the concept), instead of letting the subdivision dictate your curve. On a concept this angular/planar i'd find every excuse to curve/round something out personally.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    Per, do you even bool bro?
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    Using a boolean for that shape seems to be faster at creating a clean edge there, rather than using chamfer or control edges. I will have the time to figure it out tomorrow after work.
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    Ended up going straightforward, and not using a boolean. But I followed the edge flow of Nam's model after he/she used the boolean. So, thanks for that Nam! I was having a tough time getting the curve on the cutout to look right, while keeping the front edge sharp underneath, and rounded on top. Overall, it was a great little exercise and makes me feel more confident on trying difficult models in the future.

    sjGWMhY.jpg

    zFiUAzt.jpg

    P74TrGS.jpg
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    Nice but it's far from ideal. And edgeflow around the cylindrical part is wrong. See the direction around the cylindrical part, that should go to the center of the cylinder, not go straight. And you'll need extra supporting loops to tighten up your shading. That would be a better approach.

    radial.jpg
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    igi, your cutout looks nice and your edgeflow is cleaner than mine, but as a whole, it doesn't really follow the concept.
  • reedweinstock
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    reedweinstock polycounter lvl 8
    having some problems figuring this one out

    Uht1PY7.jpg
  • JustMeSR
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    narticus wrote: »
    igi, your cutout looks nice and your edgeflow is cleaner than mine, but as a whole, it doesn't really follow the concept.

    I know, just modeled an isolated part of the model to demonstrate how to improve shading and edgeflow overall. Hope some people find it useful since this is one of purposes of the community.
  • Mr Digital
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    Mr Digital polycounter lvl 8
    reedweinstock

    A cylinder with 60.

    What i did is just an inset and the connect again my vetex.

    F1F1cLb.png
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    igi wrote: »
    I know, just modeled an isolated part of the model to demonstrate how to improve shading and edgeflow overall. Hope some people find it useful since this is one of purposes of the community.

    Gotcha. Thank you, it is helpful.
  • reedweinstock
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    reedweinstock polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks @Mr Digital! I actually figured it out right after i posted. I just did meshsmooth to add more edges to my cylinder than I did what you did.

    Thanks
  • RealityFix
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    RealityFix polycounter lvl 5
    I have a bit of a problem I suppose. I'm modelling this knife:

    http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18633

    P6xRLAm

    Here is my model so far:
    H3uzAqF

    I forgot about the circular part at the base of the knife that connects to the handle when I was modelling this. Should I start over? I didn't really think of the topology at the end when I did it.
  • RealityFix
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    RealityFix polycounter lvl 5
    I've been having some issue with modelling the end part of this knife, the par that connects to the handle.

    My references:
    P6xRLAmP6xRLAm.jpg
    http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18633

    And what I have modelled so far:
    H3uzAqFH3uzAqF.jpg

    I started modelling this but forgot about the circular end at the handle part. Is it worth to continue modelling this or to start over? How should I begin this or fix this?

    I'm modelling in 3dsMax.
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    Still working on this sci-fi rifle:
    ZQW7WUh.png

    and pretty close to done with all of the major hi poly pieces, but I have a question on creating screws and the little dimples that can form around them. What's the fastest way to create these? Zbrush?

    Zoomed in view of a few screws on this rifle:
    ihqwPaM.png
  • supaclueless
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    supaclueless polycounter lvl 13
    using floaters will probably be the fastest method for making those screws if you plan to bake it down.

    A word of warning though if you do plan to bake this into a LP using floaters. The "thicker" the screw, the more you have to push your cage, making it less accurate and prone to making warped normals on the edges around the screw.

    There are various methods to bypass that problem and can be found around the PC wiki. (edge loops, etc, etc)
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    Sorry, my post should have been more specific. I'm trying to figure out the fastest way of creating the little dimples or indentations around each screw. The screw itself should be pretty easy for me to model. But I think the little detail around it, as shown in the concept art, really adds to the realism. Such as the rings around each one of these screws:

    AirRifle01_04.png
  • SaboR1996
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    SaboR1996 polycounter lvl 8
    narticus wrote: »
    Still working on this sci-fi rifle:
    ZQW7WUh.png

    and pretty close to done with all of the major hi poly pieces, but I have a question on creating screws and the little dimples that can form around them. What's the fastest way to create these? Zbrush?

    Zoomed in view of a few screws on this rifle:
    ihqwPaM.png

    Floaters.
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    So a floater can create the illusion of a depth going into the model? I thought a floater could only be used for something being projected away from the model, or on top of it.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    As supaclueless said, floaters would work for all the details on that fore grip. The vertical slots, the "Dimples" (cutouts) the screws sit in, and the screw themselves. They key is having the edge of the floater mimic the surface you're trying to fake it on to, so it appears seamless.

    eLixes.png

    Things complicate a touch more when you get into the way your cage projects, and baking AO. But you can cross that bridge when you get to it.
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    Ah, ok thanks s6! Very informative.
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    ..and for anyone else who is bad at searching the polycount wiki, here is the info on floaters: http://wiki.polycount.com/AmbientOcclusionMap#Floating_Mesh_Problem

    Google search helped me find it just now. Either way, thanks for your help guys!
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    I made a tut on floating geo a while back. I use Blender in the tut but the theory is the same no matter which app you use.
    http://eat3d.com/free/floating_geo
    :)
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    Andy, thanks I love your tutorials.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    No worries, man :)
  • Fridock
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    Fridock polycounter lvl 12
    Hey guys, what is the best way to model Weaver Rails?

    18P61SL.png

    Usually my rails getting more polys/geo than the rest of the gun/model
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    Aside from inevitably tight/thin edges, I don't see the problem.

    Do you mean for the lowpoly? Or is it not sub dividing correctly?
  • carmencompton
    I dont know anything about this so sorry .....
  • Fridock
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    Fridock polycounter lvl 12
    s6 wrote: »
    Aside from inevitably tight/thin edges, I don't see the problem.

    Do you mean for the lowpoly? Or is it not sub dividing correctly?

    Not a lowpoly.

    This example does the job all right, but the problem is when i'm working in Softimage and that bastard-piece-of-software really lagging on me when the scene gets over 500k polys (and i actually have pretty good rig). And usually the rails are to blame.

    So is there a good way to make nice rails with less polys?
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 8
    This example does the job all right, but the problem is when i'm working in Softimage and that bastard-piece-of-software really lagging on me when the scene gets over 500k polys (and i actually have pretty good rig). And usually the rails are to blame.
    500k polys shouldn´t be a problem for the viewport, are you using the High Quality Viewport or the normal shaded?

    And are the 500k the normal or the subdivided mesh (+ key, or override)?
  • Fridock
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    Fridock polycounter lvl 12
    .Wiki wrote: »
    500k polys shouldn´t be a problem for the viewport, are you using the High Quality Viewport or the normal shaded?

    And are the 500k the normal or the subdivided mesh (+ key, or override)?

    It's the usual shaded view and no subdivision. It's not lagging when i move the camera or anything like that, but it does when i'm welding points or just work with geometry, for example i gotta wait for 10-15 seconds until a vert is welded, very annoying. I guess i could disconnect the areas of interest but sometimes it's not achievable.
  • Fridock
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    Fridock polycounter lvl 12
    perna wrote: »
    Fridock: No time for a paintover, but you need to read up on control loops. Yours seem to be nearly randomly placed. You would lower the polycount (which you're asking about) AND make it look a lot better if you made control loops the standard way (which is simply: one edge on either side of hard corners)

    But, why on earth would your cage mesh be 500k triangles? That's crazy

    Sorry about that, it's actually not 500k ( i mean a scene i'm working on). The problem mesh cage is 60K tris.

    And i usually do the support edges by myself (with knife tool and etc), didn't know there is a proper way to do it, gotta look it up immediately.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    Viewport lag would certainly be a deal breaker for me in ANY app. I would reconsider whatever you're working in, assuming its a software limitation, and not a hardware limitation or a user setting, like WIKI suggested.

    Whether this is less or more polies, I don't know. But it seems you're unnecessarily complicating the geo on your model.

    PybZULA.png


    Edit: TRIPPLE NINJA'D!

    Fridock: I would recommend switching to an app that is more conducive to an efficient workflow if Softimage isn't capable of automatic loop/edge creation.
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 8
    When it takes to long to weld vertices your modeling stack has reached to many steps. Just freeze the stack to a desired point and you can work fast again :)
    s6 wrote: »
    Viewport lag would certainly be a deal breaker for me in ANY app. I would reconsider whatever you're working in, assuming its a software limitation,
    It shouldn´t be a problem for softimage, in my opinion its viewport is much faster then the max or maya ones, so its a shame that autodesk killed it...
  • EarthQuake
    s6: you've got a bunch of redundant loops there, 1 spit on the side of each rail; and 3 down the center, removing would drop your geo count quite a bit.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    Without at least one loop to support your support you won't get a truly planar face and your edge falloff tends to bleed. Which i'm not arguing is of importance on something this small, but I tend to do it anyway out of habbit.

    The center edge down the length is just where I symm'd it, which I agree could be removed.

    (Gif=Bare Min VS. What I had)

    GYVupjw.gif

    By all means, if you need to optimize your highpoly, go for it. In my opinion though you shouldn't be trying to negotiate these kinds of issues because your app can't handle the cage. Just my .02.
  • Fridock
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    Fridock polycounter lvl 12
    .Wiki
    The Select All - Select All polygons - Extract Polygons (Delete) - Delete 0 geo objects is a procedure i'm doing every 10 minutes when i'm working in XSI in order to resolve that (also it spams Layers/Passes/Materials quite often too, resulting the lags), but when i do welds on ~50k tris meshes it lags no matter what.

    s6
    Thanks man!
    I guess it is time to switch. But frankly i hate 3dMax, how do people work in there (the key thing is to use plugins?) ? I mean stuff i can do by few clicks in XSI in Max it takes much longer than that. Modo however looks very interesting i might give it a try.
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 8
    .Wiki
    The Select All - Select All polygons - Extract Polygons (Delete) - Delete 0 geo objects is a procedure i'm doing every 10 minutes when i'm working in XSI in order to resolve that (also it spams Layers/Passes/Materials quite often too, resulting the lags), but when i do welds on ~50k tris meshes it lags no matter what.
    Why are you using this procedure? You could just hit the Freeze M Button to freeze the modeling stack. For me this looks like a bad habit.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    s6
    Thanks man!
    I guess it is time to switch. But frankly i hate 3dMax, how do people work in there (the key thing is to use plugins?) ? I mean stuff i can do by few clicks in XSI in Max it takes much longer than that. Modo however looks very interesting i might give it a try.

    Don't make that call just based on my hate. I don't know anything about Softimage. It may be extremely capable, I have no idea. But if you have to hand cut all your loops and your veiwport lags under normal use it sends up red flags to me.

    I'd listen to Wiki, he's a smart dude.

    I don't know anything :)
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    RealityFix wrote: »
    I've been having some issue with modelling the end part of this knife, the par that connects to the handle.

    My references:
    P6xRLAmP6xRLAm.jpg
    http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18633

    I started modelling this but forgot about the circular end at the handle part. Is it worth to continue modelling this or to start over? How should I begin this or fix this?

    I'm modelling in 3dsMax.

    Here is my approach on something like this. Start with a cylinder, scale with soft selection on, Align your subtraction objects edges to correspond with your base, BOOLEAN FTW, Weld a couple verts, Do a few insets and cut in some support loops, viola.

    Somehow I deleted the smoothed image with no wires, sorry about that.

    zVWPRRL.png
  • cR45h
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    cR45h polycounter lvl 7
    Ew, nobody likes redoing shit Mike, especially when theres an easier way :)

    Bit more manual work, but a lot faster then redoing;
    knifetipz.jpg

    RealityFix, with some playing around, you can get your supporting geo to look very close to s6's one and work just as well (definitely use his as a guide). Also, this was a very quick paintover, so let me know if theres anything unclear.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    I like redoing shit. It always looks better the second time :)

    I definitely agree with Darko though! If you can work with what you have do it! Save time, save head aches.
  • Nam.Nguyen
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    Nam.Nguyen polycounter lvl 9
    ^ yeah me too, sometime things get messed up, and the more I try to fix, the more it get worse, so I redo sh!t. not all the time, but a lot of time redo stuff actually save me time and headaches :)
  • doeseph
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    doeseph polycounter lvl 7
    hey guys, I have this door handle that I modeled but it's bugging me for some reaso. is there any easier or superior way to model this shape than what I chose to do? specifically I find myself having a difficult time forming the geo to the reference image without it looking wonk at the corner

    oe666.jpg
    hh50.jpg
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
    The handle itself tapers towards the end of the tip. Doesn't look like your model reflects that.

    Also that corner appears to be more rounded, especially at the top and bottom. So you cold pull those vertices away from the corner.
  • narticus
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    narticus polycounter lvl 7
  • doeseph
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    doeseph polycounter lvl 7
    thank you for the advice perna. im doing a side project for work that doesn't require 100% accurate geo, but I'm trying my best to give the appearance of such. i dont know what my problem is but I've been struggling with certain objects that don't appear complex but end up being hard for me to nail down. just looking at how easily you threw that shape together (with wonderful accuracy too) makes me feel a tad embarrassed. i need to keep modeling/practice sub-d modeling.

    would you mind showing me how you boxed out the shape before applying turbo-smooth? i made some adjustments to my model and i think it helped, but i think i'm working with too much geo and it's getting messy.

    zsfp.jpg

    side note: is there an easy way to align verts to a certain angle? as you can see around the L corner i was doing it manually which resulted in some horrible looking topology.
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