Hi again polycount. Im getting better at this. And normally I would think I would need a whole thread to help me here. But I figured Id try here first. Im modeling a M60A1 Patton. And I want to do this as efficiently and correctly as possible. I think ive got a lot of the basics down. I just am looking for advice on more technical things. Heres what Ive got so far.
Most times I see people tackle something like this, they make a box. And mold it to the blueprints from there, which is how Ive done it. Except I cut the top off to split it into parts I can reattach later.
Now heres the areas I think I may have issues with, angles and odd shaped insets. I lined them in red on these reference pictures.
So, Im open to critique and constructive criticism and advice.
Thanks guys! (If this is too big for the thread let me know and Ill replace the pictures with links)
I wasnt asking anyone to do it FOR me, I was asking for advice. Theres a lot of complex areas on this tank and I marked the ones im having issues with. Very simple I thought.
And ok, I can track back through the thread to find that. I know which part you mean for the cylinder intersections. Im mainly having a issue trying to do the big inset piece n the rear of the hull. in the big red square, Ive tried it a few different ways and it isnt looking right to me. I was also mainly asking if this is the right way to go about it. And or if Ive done anything horrificly wrong so far.
Well id love to watch the digital tutors lesson on it but I currently dont have the cash for a membership. Sorry I took so long, Heres what I tried the last time. Got weird pinching in a couple spots.
You got a tri going there. Down there at this little plank you made the front go along as it does but that creates a tri. But the other pinch in the middle...i guess someone else got something for you there
I had a feeling that might be the culprit. Not quite sure how to go about making that shape so I extruded it in, removed a few faces, And welded the verts. And then added support edges.
Another problem is that your edge width is not even. They are wider at the top and tighter at the bottom. To get a nice smoothing these need to be equal. This will also bake better if you want to make a lowpoly out of it in the end.
Ahh and the lightning is terrible, I guess this is the "cool" two-point lightning setup 3dsmax has enabled by default. I would get rid of this because It gives you these weird black lines in the viewport.
You've got control edges on the horizontal surface of that little platform at the bottom but not on the vertical faces it's attached to. You also don't have horizontal edges where that other pinch is toward the top.
With regard to your edge width being inconsistent: turn edge constraints on and push the offending edge(s) all the way until it snaps into the corner. Let go of the gizmo without deselecting the edge and then pull it back out to where you want it. It should hold its shape then instead of trying to split the difference.
Another problem is that your edge width is not even. They are wider at the top and tighter at the bottom. To get a nice smoothing these need to be equal. This will also bake better if you want to make a lowpoly out of it in the end.
Ahh and the lightning is terrible, I guess this is the "cool" two-point lightning setup 3dsmax has enabled by default. I would get rid of this because It gives you these weird black lines in the viewport.
I dont really know too much about lighting so far.. still in the learning stage. Any tips? And I try to make them pretty even, I know if they arent they wont smooth the same on both sides. And I NEED to make a lowpoly from this. I have to make about 8 different models of this, normal, exploded, and certain parts damaged and my whole tank will need to be under about 15K polys for the first set. Then my cap will be about 45-50K for the second set.
Turbosmooth resolves to emesh, not epoly.
This gives a speed increase, which is irrelevant for most models unless you have very old gfx hardware. It also means you keep having to convert to epoly every time you collapse the stack.
It also bugs out when previous isoline/hidden-edge modifiers exist in the stack.
It also defaults to isoline off.
I rather use something which is only theoretically slower in the viewport but much more robust and saves production time/frustration. That's why I use meshsmooth.
guys, sometime I ran in to a problem, when I apply turbosmooth, some edges of my model is extremely sharp, even if I don't have any support loop, and I can't find any overlapping vertices or open edges, . . .
this problem can easily solve by delete those polygon and rebridge them, I just don't know why it happened
sometime in border mode max select the edges are not open at all, and edit mesh modifier seem to fix that too, I guess it's another odd thing of max could fix by edit mesh, edit poly and reset X-form )
Ok, well. I set it to one light, now everything is really hard to see unless Im focused directly at it. Anyone have any links to some good lighting tutorials? Im also trying to get rid of that tri in the rear corner. without much success >.>
guys, sometime I ran in to a problem, when I apply turbosmooth, some edges of my model is extremely sharp, even if I don't have any support loop, and I can't find any overlapping vertices or open edges, . . .
this problem can easily solve by delete those polygon and rebridge them, I just don't know why it happened
Add a STL Check modifier above the Editable Poly base, as well as a Edit Poly modifier above the STL Check -> rightlclick Edit Poly modifier -> "Collapse to".
Should fix the problem and is easier than deleting and creating faces
Yeah, for sure. Just for the sake of "rapid prototyping" (For lack of a better term) it seems super useful. I always feel foolish when I think about not taking more advantage of the stack.
Out of curiosity, on a concept driven model, how do your stacks usually end up? Do you ever run into baking issues if you have a complicated stack? Or does max always(and effectively) read the highest level on the highpolies stack? any transform or orientation weirdness?
Sweet man. Much appreciated. I was going to table flip some shit if you accomplished that with like 20 faces
Lol
Yo Perna, whats dis:
It's what I got when I sampled the material assigned to the ring in your file.
Do you got some kinda script set up to create these mats automatically? For what purpose I wonder? the bitmap paths are empty...
Also, what does the "Turn to Poly" Modifier do on the ring? I notice the faceting go away, but whats the mechanism by which this happens and why is it done?
I have only used this to triangulate meshes before baking and the documentation isn't very clear to me.
I was thinking the material set was for a more complex reason, like if you named them that way the textures would embed with your export file or would be referenced for an importer like some older game engines that I know have required. I do a similar thing with material libraries, its very useful indeed.
And I see now that the turn to poly is likely because you used the mesh select modifier, I figured it was doing something more.
You can use the ultimate method (adding more geo) [left, middle].
You could add edgeloop around the area you want sharp (smoothing is necessary to not look pinched) [right, left side].
Or you could try using creases/smoothing groups (although it will be pinched no matter what, you can only control how much of the pinch will be visible) [right, right side].
You guys are going to make Perna break his face and/or desk.. :P
oh nooo Perna, don't die, we need you )
anyway, this is not about how you model dem shape, but does anyone use Max 2015 yet ?
I don't know why but it seem to slow with large amount of sub-object selected
at first I thought it was just the new quad chamfer, but all other funtions : extrude, bebvel, insert, . . . is slow too, by slow I mean it freezed for 20sec when I tried to edit 20k edge
I love max 2015, veiwport AA if you want, nice outliner and layer manager, ect quad chamfer if you want. no issues so far. And what are you talking about? I find the difference between 2013 and 2014 in terms of polys you could have on screen is significant. I don't even have to decimate a mesh if i don't want to half the time.
Cheers mate! So as not to be lazy I gave it another shot before checking the thread and this is what I came up with, not perfect but pretty close...
There's a few bits you did on the model that I didn't think of so yeah.
Btw, I left it as ngons so it was easy to slice in some edgeloops without having to delete anything, cos I'm kind like that lol
Yeah, I figured (I wan't complaining, I was just pointing out that smoothed version of it looked glitchy).
Also at the end of the middle part still looks "ngony".
Tip: Try to go to Object -> display -> wire and show all wires. Also look a bit to OpenGl render to make your wireframes more readable.
Edit: Anyone knows of any way to upload .obj?
That is an OpenGL render :P
...and that is using the Display -> Wire -> Display All function - the reason it doesn't read well is because I'm in orthographic view and for some reason Blender decides to xray the entire wireframe.
Note taken though, here's where I'm at now...
I have another question actually, what's a good way of creating stitches? Also, how should I unwrap the strap, two separate parts or folded out?
Hello. I am having this problem. I am trying to model this little piece for my SCAR-H rifle but I do not know how to make it look really good.
Here is the image:
And here is one without wires:
Basically what I did is that I poked every face and pushed the vertices up a bit then I chamfered every one of them and added extra geometry but I dont really like the final result. Can anyone recommend me a better method? I am using Maya BTW.
A slight variation on the method above, if you want to capture more of that 'rolled' edge. If you google "Stamped steel scope" this optic is the first one to pop up. So I assumed its a stamped piece with wider more gradual edges.
Having looked up references after I made it I noticed you may even make this a flat bevel where the center segment along the chamfer is planar to ones just outside it. Simple tweak though.
Any realistic excuse to use wider edges/bevels/chamfers, use it
1. That orange highlighter look is baller. Totally going to steal that
2. If you wanted more geo on your LP than your version of the cage has atm, how would you go about adding that back in? Would you recreate the entire length of the optic housing?
It's not difficult. In my mind though, I remove a few loops from my cage and I'm good to go when it comes to segment count on my low. The quicker I can make optimization the better. If I can avoid remaking something, I do.
The reason I ask this is more theoretical than applicable to this model. I'm imagining complex or compound curves on a hard surface piece and wondering how you would work through that with a minimalistic approach for the high/low. Something that isn't so easy to just recreate with more geometry.
I'm not sure If its clear what I'm saying. I'll make an example in a few...:poly122:
Edit:
So a quick shape like this. Would you sooner make a highpoly with more geometry than absolutely necessary for sake of ease optimizing the low poly, or work from a mesh that has significantly less geometry than you need it to for the low poly?
I even kept a stack just for you. :poly124:
This is still kinda a bad example. I can't really convey what I mean...
I'll see if I can find a better example in the thread.
Replies
EDIT : Or, what Per said...
Most times I see people tackle something like this, they make a box. And mold it to the blueprints from there, which is how Ive done it. Except I cut the top off to split it into parts I can reattach later.
Now heres the areas I think I may have issues with, angles and odd shaped insets. I lined them in red on these reference pictures.
So, Im open to critique and constructive criticism and advice.
Thanks guys! (If this is too big for the thread let me know and Ill replace the pictures with links)
And ok, I can track back through the thread to find that. I know which part you mean for the cylinder intersections. Im mainly having a issue trying to do the big inset piece n the rear of the hull. in the big red square, Ive tried it a few different ways and it isnt looking right to me. I was also mainly asking if this is the right way to go about it. And or if Ive done anything horrificly wrong so far.
you'll find the guidance ;-)
Smoothed:
Unsmoothed:
Throw some wisdom at me!
Hmmm.
Ahh and the lightning is terrible, I guess this is the "cool" two-point lightning setup 3dsmax has enabled by default. I would get rid of this because It gives you these weird black lines in the viewport.
With regard to your edge width being inconsistent: turn edge constraints on and push the offending edge(s) all the way until it snaps into the corner. Let go of the gizmo without deselecting the edge and then pull it back out to where you want it. It should hold its shape then instead of trying to split the difference.
I dont really know too much about lighting so far.. still in the learning stage. Any tips? And I try to make them pretty even, I know if they arent they wont smooth the same on both sides. And I NEED to make a lowpoly from this. I have to make about 8 different models of this, normal, exploded, and certain parts damaged and my whole tank will need to be under about 15K polys for the first set. Then my cap will be about 45-50K for the second set.
Just set the "Illuminate with" Setting to "1 Light" and you won´t have these weird black shaded areas in the shaded viewport.
y u no turbosmooth?
Ah, I did not know this. Very good, thanks!
this problem can easily solve by delete those polygon and rebridge them, I just don't know why it happened
sometime in border mode max select the edges are not open at all, and edit mesh modifier seem to fix that too, I guess it's another odd thing of max could fix by edit mesh, edit poly and reset X-form
I see it, I just guess I dont understand what Im supposed to do with it.. .-.
Well. I re did it, I have meshsmooth instead of turbosmooth. The lighting is fixed. And Ive gotten rid of that tri. I think it looks a lot better.
Add a STL Check modifier above the Editable Poly base, as well as a Edit Poly modifier above the STL Check -> rightlclick Edit Poly modifier -> "Collapse to".
Should fix the problem and is easier than deleting and creating faces
Mind posting wires for that? Pure curiosity.
Unrelated: This thread gets funnier to read everyday that goes by. Then I get sad...
That stack is mad man. Gonna try something like this.
Out of curiosity, on a concept driven model, how do your stacks usually end up? Do you ever run into baking issues if you have a complicated stack? Or does max always(and effectively) read the highest level on the highpolies stack? any transform or orientation weirdness?
Lol
Yo Perna, whats dis:
It's what I got when I sampled the material assigned to the ring in your file.
Do you got some kinda script set up to create these mats automatically? For what purpose I wonder? the bitmap paths are empty...
Also, what does the "Turn to Poly" Modifier do on the ring? I notice the faceting go away, but whats the mechanism by which this happens and why is it done?
I have only used this to triangulate meshes before baking and the documentation isn't very clear to me.
Spill the beans! :poly124:
I was thinking the material set was for a more complex reason, like if you named them that way the textures would embed with your export file or would be referenced for an importer like some older game engines that I know have required. I do a similar thing with material libraries, its very useful indeed.
And I see now that the turn to poly is likely because you used the mesh select modifier, I figured it was doing something more.
mmmmm... beans....
how to make this shape so clean hard surface model
I tried and there are bunch of pinches T.T (Im using 3ds max)
You can use the ultimate method (adding more geo) [left, middle].
You could add edgeloop around the area you want sharp (smoothing is necessary to not look pinched) [right, left side].
Or you could try using creases/smoothing groups (although it will be pinched no matter what, you can only control how much of the pinch will be visible) [right, right side].
I'm having trouble understanding how I can get those intersecting areas.
I'm working with max. Thanks for the help in advance!
Page 162. Three pages ago, covered this exact thing in detail.
You guys are going to make Perna break his face and/or desk.. :P
I don't get it.
Edit: Never mind...Next time I'll recommend using normals.:poly124:
oh nooo Perna, don't die, we need you
anyway, this is not about how you model dem shape, but does anyone use Max 2015 yet ?
I don't know why but it seem to slow with large amount of sub-object selected
at first I thought it was just the new quad chamfer, but all other funtions : extrude, bebvel, insert, . . . is slow too, by slow I mean it freezed for 20sec when I tried to edit 20k edge
in Max 2013 I can edit 40k edge on the fly
ex:
I remember Perna posting examples of how Max's perfomance had become signifficantly worse over the years. It seems that this trend is here to stay.
So I'm making a polymer tactical belt and I'm having trouble getting the model nailed down properly.
I've been experimenting and am just about to pull my hair out so I've attached the .obj in-case any of you guys could shed some light.
Ngons, there is unfinished area full of ngons.
.blend file
Wanted to upload .obj too, but somehow i can't find a way to upload it anywhere.
Edit:
pic.
Has anyone heard from Perna? I alway knew my posts will one day kill someone, but I thought it would be me commenting hardware and not topology.:)
There's a few bits you did on the model that I didn't think of so yeah.
Btw, I left it as ngons so it was easy to slice in some edgeloops without having to delete anything, cos I'm kind like that lol
thx again
Yeah, I figured
Also at the end of the middle part still looks "ngony".
Tip: Try to go to Object -> display -> wire and show all wires. Also look a bit to OpenGl render to make your wireframes more readable.
Edit: Anyone knows of any way to upload .obj?
...and that is using the Display -> Wire -> Display All function - the reason it doesn't read well is because I'm in orthographic view and for some reason Blender decides to xray the entire wireframe.
Note taken though, here's where I'm at now...
I have another question actually, what's a good way of creating stitches? Also, how should I unwrap the strap, two separate parts or folded out?
Cheers!
Ndo (or any other height map -> normal will do) or sculpting.
You can unwrap it however you like, one way you have 1 seam less, the other it is easier to lover the definition of the back side.
Here is the image:
And here is one without wires:
Basically what I did is that I poked every face and pushed the vertices up a bit then I chamfered every one of them and added extra geometry but I dont really like the final result. Can anyone recommend me a better method? I am using Maya BTW.
Thanks!
.
.
Simply make a nice piece and rotate it around
New to the subD pimp game.
Ref:
SubD:
SubD/Wireframe:
Single Piece:
Questions:
- How can I make this better?
- Do I close off border edges with SubD, and reconcile the edges back into the model?
Thanks!
Here is the image:
Any help would be appreaciated. I am using Maya btw.
Thanks in advance!
I'm not using Maya, but I think Maya boolean should work as well
Try to match number of segments on the cylinder with the cube before you do boolean
Having looked up references after I made it I noticed you may even make this a flat bevel where the center segment along the chamfer is planar to ones just outside it. Simple tweak though.
Any realistic excuse to use wider edges/bevels/chamfers, use it
1. That orange highlighter look is baller. Totally going to steal that
2. If you wanted more geo on your LP than your version of the cage has atm, how would you go about adding that back in? Would you recreate the entire length of the optic housing?
It's not difficult. In my mind though, I remove a few loops from my cage and I'm good to go when it comes to segment count on my low. The quicker I can make optimization the better. If I can avoid remaking something, I do.
The reason I ask this is more theoretical than applicable to this model. I'm imagining complex or compound curves on a hard surface piece and wondering how you would work through that with a minimalistic approach for the high/low. Something that isn't so easy to just recreate with more geometry.
I'm not sure If its clear what I'm saying. I'll make an example in a few...:poly122:
Edit:
So a quick shape like this. Would you sooner make a highpoly with more geometry than absolutely necessary for sake of ease optimizing the low poly, or work from a mesh that has significantly less geometry than you need it to for the low poly?
I even kept a stack just for you. :poly124:
This is still kinda a bad example. I can't really convey what I mean...
I'll see if I can find a better example in the thread.
*Never mind. Move along*.