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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • OBlastradiusO
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    OBlastradiusO polycounter lvl 11
    Followed Perna's edge flow setup pretty well however. Did the initial block out first as he suggested, then matched the number of segments. I then took that same blockout and used Boolean subtraction on it then tweaked the verts. Worked out well I'd say.

    2h64v0o.jpg
  • divi
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    divi polycounter lvl 12
    perna wrote: »
    onion: Yes, the symmetry Z is [Face Extrude modifier].Amount/2.

    However, half the height of the initial box also needs to be taken into account, and I can't remember how to gracefully access the two pieces of data in one wire formula (and have the updates work correctly)... so I ended up using a hack with XForm translating the whole thing.. but that's not exactly ideal.. so, anyone? I'm sure I've done this successfully in the past

    sorry for quoting you again, but i was being stupid with my first response. based on your statement with the updates working correctly i assume you already tried the $.Length/2+height? as that gives me gaps as well when i reduce the radius of the sphere too much after adding some height. i sometimes wish my brain wasn't so stupid :X
  • OBlastradiusO
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    OBlastradiusO polycounter lvl 11
    Yeah blocking out the complex and detailed shapes first is a smart move and i'm finding that out right now. I'm also blocking out some partz very low res, like the 'cage' example you was talking about. Thanks for those tips. Also about the SubD list you put out. Is that to show how that geometry when subdivided is equal in distance therefore you should always create edge flows equal in distance to get better outcomes? Hopefully that's clear.
  • okno
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  • OBlastradiusO
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    OBlastradiusO polycounter lvl 11
    okno wrote: »
    This link has a very clear explanation of catull-clark subdivision:
    http://www.idav.ucdavis.edu/education/CAGDNotes/Catmull-Clark/Catmull-Clark.html

    Thanks okno
  • crasong
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    crasong polycounter lvl 14
    @perna
    Hello. Here's what I've got so far. I've been playing around with the edgeflow on that hair bit. It's nowhere near done, but I'm welcome to feedback and crits!

    [SKETCHFAB]314acb588b1147a1a622b0dfb7b1445b[/SKETCHFAB]

    update:

    So I still can't figure out how you retain the sharp edges around the beak with the low poly cage that you made.

    Yours:
    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1909433&postcount=3213

    Mine turns out like this:
    http://puu.sh/4NaWw.jpg
  • jimba86
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    Hey guys,

    I need help with a vital piece of a environment in UDK im creating.

    As you may of seen in my other thread I am doing a Scandinavian/Norwegian viking village and well I need a viking ship. I have looked up tutorials about it and have no luck as I only found one in lightwave which I dont have, I got recommend to do spline modelling but it proved too hard in 3ds max (2012 version) so I am stumped.

    So can you guys help me?

    I am after like this:

    This ornate Bow:
    photostream

    or This one or a combination of both:

    Stormy_Fiord_300w.jpg

    or

    vk_viking_ship_figurehead.jpg
    It would be cool if the base been modelled after the famous gokstad and Oseberg ships:

    gokstad_viking_ship.jpg

    Oseberg_ship_-_IMG_9129.jpg

    Is this possible?

    Just a start?

    Once I have a base it will be easy to finish.

    Sorry for the large images.

    thanks,
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    I got another fun little challenge guys. Have fun :p I will model it sometime tomorrow.
    5096443016_d0c0c2a434_b.jpg
  • jimba86
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    perna wrote: »

    Jimba: It's difficult for me to understand what you're asking. Are you struggling with the decorative bit or getting the right curve for the boat body? It would help if you post images of your efforts so far

    I am having issues with the start of it, I cant get the base looking right all. I will post what I have done so far.

    What I am asking is if someone could model the basics of a viking ship as I cant seem to get the right curve for the body of the boat bit.
  • Colddeez
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    Interesting thought... Anyone have an idea of how you'd go about making a triangular shaped object using quads?
    triangle.png
    triangle%20smoothed.png
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    jimba86 wrote: »
    I am having issues with the start of it, I cant get the base looking right all. I will post what I have done so far.

    What I am asking is if someone could model the basics of a viking ship as I cant seem to get the right curve for the body of the boat bit.

    If you are struggling with that part of it then you might want to take some steps back and do some basic sub-d modeling stuff. Take the time to understand the basic modeling concepts that are needed before taking on a large scale project like a whole viking village. You should not be looking for tutorials for specific things you want to model, but instead find tutorials that teach you good fundamentals. Check out the sub-d modeling tutorial for 3DS Max on 3D Motive https://www.3dmotive.com/f100501. If that is a little to advanced that check out the intro course to get the basics down https://www.3dmotive.com/f102501.

    You gotta walk before you can run.
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    06oj.jpg
    There are two areas I am not happy with, but I can't really spend more time on it. Overall it was fun to make.
  • Mr Digital
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    Mr Digital polycounter lvl 8
    Well, that is gorgeos! also your rendering setup.
  • Colddeez
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    Oh, here's one... What's the 'correct' way to make a triangle out of quads?
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    Colddeez wrote: »
    Oh, here's one... What's the 'correct' way to make a triangle out of quads?
    Triangles are not a bad thing, you can have them where you need them on a sub-d model, just like ngons. Its an area based thing and a situational based thing, so do you have an example?
    Mr Digital wrote: »
    Well, that is gorgeos! also your rendering setup.

    Thanks! Keyshot is fucking awesome lol.
  • Steppenwolf
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    Steppenwolf polycounter lvl 15
    I believe this on the right is what Colddeez wants to know (not my picture):

    eiNaPIQ.png
  • dissonance
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    BARDLER wrote: »
    I got another fun little challenge guys. Have fun :p I will model it sometime tomorrow.
    5096443016_d0c0c2a434_b.jpg
    Drillbit?
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    dissonance wrote: »
    Drillbit?

    Honestly not a clue lol, I found it on flickr searching for machine parts.
  • Colddeez
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    perna wrote: »
    hm... but that new shape is not a triangle - it's an irregular hexagon shaped like a triangle (the two shapes depicted have a different number of border edges) :)

    There's actually no way to make a proper triangle out of quads.

    Well actually that does technically work... I was just curious. I've been trying a new approach to teaching myself. Instead of trying to make things and objects, I've been focusing on ways to make various shapes or things I would encounter. So for instance, I spent a night trying to figure out proper ways to cap cylinders. I've basically figured out an algorithm to it. After that, I was thinking about a triangle and realized it was geometrically impossible to have 3 sides to it. (Totally Agree with Perna on that) However, I didn't even consider what Steppenwolf found. Thanks for the info dude!

    QuadCap.jpg

    By the way, I saw the challenge you had put out and the video you made Perna. Rock on! I'm completely green to Polycount and you all seem like an awesome group of folks!
  • artquest
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    artquest polycounter lvl 13
    In Maya if your mesh is not Water Tight it will disappear. Close any holes then you can Boolean no problem.

    I haven't tried it yet but the Maya 2014 extension claims to have an all new Boolean algorithm. I'd be curious to see if it finally has caught up with the booleans in max or xsi.
  • Zwebbie
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    Zwebbie polycounter lvl 18
    Is there any point to capping cylinders the way Colddeez does as opposed to just merging everything to a single vertex in the middle? If a surface is flat, you can use whatever kind of geometry you want there, triangles included, and it won't make a difference visually — but I was wondering if there's perhaps a technical limitation, because I rarely if ever see people redistribute their loops on flat surfaces.
  • EarthQuake
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    Zwebbie wrote: »
    Is there any point to capping cylinders the way Colddeez does as opposed to just merging everything to a single vertex in the middle? If a surface is flat, you can use whatever kind of geometry you want there, triangles included, and it won't make a difference visually — but I was wondering if there's perhaps a technical limitation, because I rarely if ever see people redistribute their loops on flat surfaces.

    If you want to take it into a sculpting app is really the only reason I can think of for doing it like that.
  • Colddeez
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    As you could see from my previous question, I'm very OCD regarding n-gons. I'm not saying it's wrong to use them, but I tend to aim for quads as much as possible.

    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I know for programs like Xnormal, they don't want to see anything but quads and tris. I remember one model I had made, had an N-GON and of course it had 100K+ polygons, so I had to start searching every poly of the model to find it and fix it before it'd let me make a normal map.
  • Kroma!
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    Kroma! polycounter lvl 9
    What about capping a dome then? My end result of these still has a slightly visible ring on it. This was a section of a polysphere attached in and scaled to fit the curvature. Is there a better way of achieving this result? Like a soft selection to get the curve?

    Edit: also for Colddeez you can select quads, tris or ngons in Max quite easily with Selection>By Numeric. Not sure about other programs but scripts must be available.

    Ends_01_zps9e728aa3.jpg~original

    Cap_01_zps1eb306ff.png~original
  • Colddeez
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    Kroma!, I don't think it'd be right to just cap a spherical dome. What ends up happening, if I understand what you're saying, is that maya/max puts a flat surface instead of a curved surface, which is probably why you're seeing those distortions in your geometry when you smooth it. Unless someone else knows a better way, all I can think of is just replacing the dome with a sphere primitive and merging it into the model. I like using soft selection for a lot of things, however, I think if you're aiming for a dome, you're better off trying to get exact distances and angles in there from a new sphere than trying to guestimate it with soft-select.

    The other thing you mentioned about being able to easily select N-Gons... I just looked it up. I'm using Maya now, just got away from Max about a year ago. But it's under Select > Select Using Contraint, then make sure you have the face selection mode on and you can filter what you select. Thought I'd share just in case someone else was wondering for Maya.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Kroma! wrote: »
    What about capping a dome then?

    Maaybe start the caping pattern closer to the rim of dome and ensure that part is curved by pulling it a with soft selections?
  • mAlkAv!An
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    mAlkAv!An polycounter lvl 5
    That's it, cap it the whole way not only center ngon/triangles. Then drag the center vert with proportional editing on (e.g. sphere falloff).

    blenderdomecap01s1kuta.jpg
  • AlexCatMasterSupreme
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    AlexCatMasterSupreme interpolator
    mAlkAv!An wrote: »
    That's it, cap it the whole way not only center ngon/triangles. Then drag the center vert with proportional editing on (e.g. sphere falloff).

    blenderdomecap01s1kuta.jpg

    I tried but I think I missed a step.
    4SZy4.png
    4SZyB.png
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 8
    mAlkAv!An wrote: »
    That's it, cap it the whole way not only center ngon/triangles. Then drag the center vert with proportional editing on (e.g. sphere falloff).

    blenderdomecap01s1kuta.jpg
    You could also create a cube. Subdivide it once, then shrink wrap it to a sphere and delete on half.
  • Steppenwolf
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    Steppenwolf polycounter lvl 15
    For such a shape you can also start with a cube, turbosmooth it 2-3 iterations, remove the lower half and work from there.
  • WarrenM
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    Colddeez wrote: »
    I remember one model I had made, had an N-GON and of course it had 100K+ polygons, so I had to start searching every poly of the model to find it and fix it before it'd let me make a normal map.
    Which modeling app are you using? Max has a search function that will locate n-gons, tris, or whatever for you.
  • Kroma!
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    Kroma! polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for the replies :)

    Maybe I should clarify my images. The first one with the 4 different methods was for a demonstration of how some of the methods used for flat circles don't work on a dome. The second image was an example of how I had made it work for the most part, although a small ring was still visible.

    The end was created with a subdivided cube, spherified, and then the relevant faces from there were put onto the other model, but scaled to reduce the amount of curvature to fit. It wasn't just a flat cap :P

    I did try the soft selection in Blender but it didn't quite work how I wanted it to; need to revisit that.

    I think part of my problem is attempting to round off the dome in too small a space, hence the subdivided geometry bunches up and gives the pinching. The image shown by mAlkAv!An is what I should be aiming for, a more even density.

    Thanks again :)
  • Colddeez
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    WarrenM wrote: »
    Which modeling app are you using? Max has a search function that will locate n-gons, tris, or whatever for you.

    Maya, I figured it out and posted it. Thanks for the interest in helping!
  • WarrenM
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    Oh FFS, I didn't see your follow up post. Glad you got it sorted. :)
  • dzibarik
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    dzibarik polycounter lvl 10
    perna wrote: »
    it's dead in here guys, what gives?

    Just tossing this out there. It's an excellent subject for subd practice that you can make in one sitting. If you alter the design, you lose.

    I remember trying to do a lavatory pan when I was making my first steps in modelling. Ended up doing a very angular seat lol. It will be fun to revisit a year later.
  • AlexCatMasterSupreme
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    AlexCatMasterSupreme interpolator
    perna wrote: »
    it's dead in here guys, what gives?

    Just tossing this out there. It's an excellent subject for subd practice that you can make in one sitting. If you alter the design, you lose.

    For practice in working with concepts, try to model it out from this image alone, without googling other views.
    toto.jpg

    I want to do this.
    Will there be anymore challenges perna? Like officialish ones like the first.
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    I want to do this.
    Will there be anymore challenges perna? Like officialish ones like the first.
    Do the one I posted on the previous page. I want to see what other people do with it.
  • mAlkAv!An
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    mAlkAv!An polycounter lvl 5
    perna wrote: »
    Just tossing this out there. It's an excellent subject for subd practice that you can make in one sitting. If you alter the design, you lose.

    For practice in working with concepts, try to model it out from this image alone, without googling other views.

    I'm having problems with such shapes so this was a good practice indeed.

    subdtoto01sqquv3.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Just my suggestions mAlkAv!An

    ZbIiWdW.png

    Just want to make sure you can tell, I'm saying the back should be flat, the sides of the seat should be angled, and that curve should be softer.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    perna wrote: »
    ZacD, drop the crits and make a model ;)

    FINE!


    jORcd8B.png

    I'm not perfectly happy with the proportions or the edge widths, but I gotta go to work, spent 30 minutes on it.
  • Bek
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    Bek interpolator
    gave it a go:

    hfIMGhq.png

    didn't handle the main shape transition expertly but live and learn.
  • bob3636
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    bob3636 polycounter lvl 11
    Hello! like suggested by AlexCatMasterSupreme in my thread http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127155 i'm gonna post here to for crit and feedback ^^
    r7e4vO3.jpg
    GYqaWkE.jpg?1

    And here's my attempt for the challenge :)

    7SQJVKD.jpg
    LaDmLAB.jpg?1

    Thank you! Bob
  • Noors
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    Noors greentooth
    I haz question !
    I think i want to model this slightly in the low poly, or test atleast.
    ruger357blackhawk-014.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg
    This is maybe not the best example but do you guys use "negative floating geo" ? If the low was flat, no issue, i put that on top, but if it is modeled in the low ? That would require to bake with it only, and then with the cylinder only, then composite. Or with a gbuffer id maybe...
    Now i go to model it into the cylinder. Not that it's very hard, just wondering.
  • Kroma!
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    Kroma! polycounter lvl 9
    My attempt at the challenge. Some areas are off but I was trying not to get too caught up in trying to make it perfect. Took about 2-3 hours including render setup (even with me just messing about with Cycles).

    Wireframe.png

    cycles_8min.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Noors wrote: »
    I haz question !
    I think i want to model this slightly in the low poly, or test atleast.
    ruger357blackhawk-014.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg
    This is maybe not the best example but do you guys use "negative floating geo" ? If the low was flat, no issue, i put that on top, but if it is modeled in the low ? That would require to bake with it only, and then with the cylinder only, then composite. Or with a gbuffer id maybe...
    Now i go to model it into the cylinder. Not that it's very hard, just wondering.

    Revolvers have been cover half a dozen times in this thread, try looking through it.

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1272762&postcount=1281

    or

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1708070&postcount=2553


    or

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1851769&postcount=2911 (this whole page is good)
  • Noors
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    Noors greentooth
    Yeah i had the last two and came close from racer's one. And yeah, that's probably simpler in the case of modeled lp than using floaters.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Uh perna, want us to submit our models so you can make another video?
  • Bek
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    Bek interpolator
    ZacD wrote: »
    Uh perna, want us to submit our models so you can make another video?
    I believe this was just one for practice, he said another proper challenge may come later.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Oh okay, I decided to make a better screen capture and fix some things.

    ZeZ7Rn6.png
  • Kroma!
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    Kroma! polycounter lvl 9
    ZacD whilst the proportions on yours look good (better than mine at least) I think there are a couple of things wrong with it.

    Firstly, the little handle you have done at the top is actually the flush button. If you zoom in you can just see the edge of it around the bottom.

    Secondly, the lip at the back of the lid seems to me that it is part of the seat and comes up above the lid, rather than being part of the lid itself.

    I could be wrong but hopefully you see what I mean :)
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