I have! I'm sorry if the standard for this thread is to post your attempt while you ask, its my first time posting in here. Also I could see how the way I phrased my post makes it seem like I haven't tried it. Here was my first shot at it:
That's typically what works best ... you show what you tried and didn't work and then people can use that as a jumping off point to show you where you messed up. It also prevents people from using this thread as a "could somebody do my job for me?" thread.
hey guys
thought I would make a little contribution.
I see this problem come up alot on the threads a triangled shape going into a corner and people have problems putting in support edges
and also the if you look i did a render at what to look for in your reflections to show the problem as well.
- if you see waviness on a reflection that is a dead giveaway something is arise or needs to be fixed.
If there was a lightweight, speedy, artist centric freeform nurbs and sub-d hybrid modeler (sans a lot of the extraneous engineering stuff) that would also have a dedicated retopology and baking system that would be killer.
The closest thing I can find is using T-splines with modo and rhino.
(Here's that video again, for people who haven't seen what we are talking about:)
It's the perfect little nurbs application, not as heavy or advanced as rhino(which I love) but it has a lot of the features you would want to quickly put together a hard surface model quickly and accurately, with beautiful edge controls etc.
And it comes with some pretty decent polygon export tools, not perfect, but alot better than rhino.
edit:
it doesn't have much in the way of polygon tools, and it can't really retopo etc, but as a lightweight nurbs tool, it is awesome.
It's the perfect little nurbs application, not as heavy or advanced as rhino(which I love) but it has a lot of the features you would want to quickly put together a hard surface model quickly and accurately, with beautiful edge controls etc.
And it comes with some pretty decent polygon export tools, not perfect, but alot better than rhino.
edit:
it doesn't have much in the way of polygon tools, and it can't really retopo etc, but as a lightweight nurbs tool, it is awesome.
That's awesome. Have you used it to make highpoly hardsurface to bake normals off of? What about more freeform style meshes, not just like angular gun parts for example? Do the polygonal meshses it export's make for good baking geo?
If anyone has some cool unique workflows like this rather than the boring old Maya/Max Turbosmooth jam, I would love to hear about it.
I have used it, and it great, the mesh export is pretty good as well, I can upload an example tonight for you to take a look at, along with screenshots of the process. And I've gotten pretty decent exports for baking from it - it does take some tweaking, but it's not bad.
It has freeform tools, and does it pretty well, and I've never really ran into anything that was a struggle. It has the usual boolean tools, and tools like sweep and loft, etc. There is also revolve, fillet, camfer, offset. network, blend.
One of the best bits, and a process I use alot, is creating vectors in illustrator, and importing those and using them as shapes and paths, and lofting them, or using them as cutters, to speed up modelling.
But, I'll post pics and file tonight. Seriously awesome tool. And cheaper and faster than rhino for what a game artist ideally needs.
edit:
The workflow
So here is a quick construction of a jeep front end, excuse the thickness, and lack of camfer on the outer edge (badly done vector on the outside edge prevented the camfer from working):
So my prefered workflow, if it suits what I'm creating, is quickly doing vector outlines/shapes/paths that will assist me in quickly creating whatever i'm creating, in this case, I created the main shape of the grill, and then the shapes I'd use to cut:
I'd then import into MOI, as you can see, I can import an entire document, and I can then select individual paths (you can also edit paths and curves in MOI - MOI converts vector paths to nurb paths)
I then extruded my main shape, used my interior shapes to subtract, and camfered the edges (camfering can be tricky if you haven't setup your units of measurement, or worked to a scale)
Then comes the export, this is where MOI shines, Rhino has decent mesh export options, but MOI is beautiful, it has a load of options to choose from to get the perfect export.
○ Some things to take note when exporting, your selected item is the item that is exported
○ It's adviseable to select weld vertices, especialy if it's a solid object
○ You can increase and decrease poly count very easily, and depending on what you need. So if you need a high poly straight off, you can just push the poly count up. If you want to subsurf it, keep the polys down, but play with the angle. You can usually get something pretty decent.
○ You can also choose between exporting quads and triangles, triangles, and Ngons, Ngons are the most adviseable.
○ Divide Larger Than, this is handy, you can choose the maximum size a surface is before it gets divided, and in the first image, I've only selected curved faces to be divided, in the second image, you'll note I've select all in that dialog, and it has divide every surface on the mesh to be no larger than that measurement - which is great for exporting sculpt ready meshes
export1
export2 - this is great if you want a uniform mesh to sculpt onto
And finally, the result:
This is in modo, I tried blender, but blender somehow does wierd things to my obj import, where it strips out the ngons and puts in quads and triangles, so not sure what is going on there.
But, it works in modo, and should in all other applications as well.
You can also just test yourself: http://moi3d.com/download.htm
There is a 30day trial with which to test it out, and it's price is a 4th of what Rhino is, it's a great app to have, If your workflow uses it.
Final edit, doesn't really show freeform modelling, but it's there, and all I can suggest is to try it out. The app is very quick to get to grips with, simply by experimenting, documentation isn't really needed.
Did a quick freeform experiment, something similar to the scooter fender in a previous post here:
Using the freeform drawing tool in MOI, and then lofting it to create the surface
Hello!
I've got a problem with highpoly geometry - it's a cylinder with some details on the cap side. There is need to make details with hard edges, and keep cylinder's form. Looks easy, but I tried a lot of variations, and all of them make problems. Can someone help me?
Can somebody help me out with this shape? I tried using tri's on these edges to reduce the edges on the rest of the model and not be too dense. I thought since it was on a flat surface on the front, that if I had a "control edge" around it then it would smooth okay but clearly I was wrong. What would you guys do?
It needs more support geo. That's a hell of a pole to be that close to a corner.
A simple solution might be to try deleting every second one and create quads instead. Might be less stress on that vert and you could get away with it...
Okay, thanks a lot. I tried the quad thing and it didn't really look good so I decided to just route it to the side in all quads... Polycount isn't really an issue yet so not sure why I was being so conservative anyway.
I got the look I was after for the face on this guy, but the topology looks atrocious... Not sure if should even fix it since it looks alright smoothed but it's still bothering me... I tried doing it about 3 times and not really sure where to go with my edges on this..
If it's just going to be used as the high poly for a bake, don't worry too much about the final topology if the model looks right and there are no shading artifacts. Just watch out for the topology of the low poly before you bake it.
Okay, so i've been watching this thread a lot, lots of wonderful stuff you guys share, but i've encountered a problem and i have no clue on how to model/fix it
I gave it a try, but didn't turn out to well
Here's what i'm trying to make (ref) http://oi45.tinypic.com/v2tmp4.jpg
It's basically 2 cylinders perpendicular to each other, but 1 flows into the other one, while the other one does not
So first off is I think you could easily do that with separate geo to make your life a lot easier. If you really wanted to model it all as one piece then you just need more geometry on your starting cylinder so you can get the proper support loops in it.
However why do you need to model it in that detail? How large is this object going to be on the model? If its fairly small you might not even have enough texture resolution to have that detail in your normal map.
It is a HP college assignment and they want us to model it as detailed as we can, so modelled pretty much everythin on this object (it's a vintage folding camera), including screw thread and other small bits, this one of of them, it's what allows you to wind up the film roll inside.
Anyways, as for texturing, we're not going to, it'll stay in 3DS max, and materials will be used as well as some textures to just be overlayed onto the material, so there's no need to worry about normal maps yet
EDIT; managed to work it out using seperate geo , it's not exactly as i want it to be, but close enough
modelled 2 parts individually and then attached them together, see images below for how and the result
So, is there any way for me to do this and not die of misery or old age?... I want to cap all the holes in that model in the manner shown below... I'm only demonstrating on one set of edges/borders, but i want to cap all the other ones too, any thoughts?
Lol. yes i actually thought of that, but was wondering if there was some super hidden technique out there that could do this, you never know with max, but yes, that seem to be the only way around this abomination...
Lol. yes i actually thought of that, but was wondering if there was some super hidden technique out there that could do this, you never know with max, but yes, that seem to be the only way around this abomination...
That IS the super hidden technique. Now prove your skills, grasshoppa! :P
Hehe, actually I found another way around that, which included a bit of change in the workflow to begin with, instead of deleting the faces in the first place and then try to cap those holes, I selected the faces along with the corresponding face behind them in the first layer>Bridged them, then the same thing for the second layer... no more splitting, aligning the pivot, calculating how many copies I need and welding... but mostly the calculating part, because I hate calculation, calculators, calculus, anything with calc in it...
I know there is a cap hole modifier in max( mb theres one for bridge too? not sure dont have max at work) could try to cap all the holes at once then assuming that it auto selects all the capped faces, run triangulate then quadrify. Thats how i would do it in Maya. See if you could replicate this method.
Hi guys, i want to resolve an issue with a little robot i'm doing right now.
I'm doing this in sub-d, i plan to animate the robot(maybe).so its not for videogames.
i want to maintain a good cylinder topology in the "hatch" for the robot arms, but i can't. I used bevel, and manual edge loops; i can't accomplished this. There's a way i could do it?
Build the whole thing without doing the indent. Basically
1. Modell the thing
2. Extrude in the part you want to be the Hatch
3. Extrude it out
4. Extract that part you want to use as "Hatch" Door.
5. Smooth and see if it fits.
Sure, it's a separate piece in real life so model it as a separate piece. Start with a 10 sided cylinder, extrude out every second face on the side, inset and extrude the bottom face ... that's 80% done right there. :P
If it's your high poly, it doesn't matter as long as it smooths correctly.
If it's your low poly, that n-gon (single poly) is going to be triangulate anyway so there's no savings to be had there. The only way to make it cheaper is to use less sides on that cylinder.
just a small note for the lowpoly
so if you can't be bothered to cap it properly, leave it as a n-gon (as Warren said), atleast for max the left one is how it gets triangulated automaticly, but don't make it end in a single vert.
I got a new problem, then.
I imported my model into Zbrush to make my normal map, but my different models seems not to be attached together... http://prntscr.com/134n74
its easier to make a seperate object than to mess with mesh flow on two pieces that might not merge properly. merging them together for the bake makes things a lot easier to bake. also xnormal for baking generally yields better results.
its easier to make a seperate object than to mess with mesh flow on two pieces that might not merge properly.
yep
merging them together for the bake makes things a lot easier to bake.
Merging in the lowpoly I hope you mean, which I do as much as possible, if you mean in the highpoly, theres basically no reason to ever do that.
also xnormal for baking generally yields better results.
Just.... No. If this is the case, you likely do not understand how to bake in Maya or Max, as all 3 have basically the same baking functionality and Max and Maya by default do some things better than xnormal. But really, I can get the same quality bakes out of any of those 3 apps, so I wouldn't trust anyone who tells you "Z App is better at baking" or anything like that.
Unless you're talking AO, because Maya sucks at baking AO, lol.
Hmh, thanks for your tips, I'll give it a try.
What's the best way to finish this? http://prntscr.com/13ih5s
I seriously don't know what to do right now, stuck with that horse piece.
Hmh, thanks for your tips, I'll give it a try.
What's the best way to finish this? http://prntscr.com/13ih5s
I seriously don't know what to do right now, stuck with that horse piece.
The best thing to do is to take the picture, and draw poly-flow lines over it. That will give you a better idea of where you need to make extrusions, particularly for the jawline of the knight. Don't be afraid to make cuts, so long as the loops connect... This is better for subdivision, as you don't get ugly pinching artifacts and other stuff...
A: I don't want to have the sharpened edges on the surface that is supposed to be flat but I need the edge loops running through the mesh to make everything else sharp. What would I do?
B: Pinching sucks. I created a pole so that the wires wouldn't go around the vehicle give the same effect as in example A. But instead now I'm left with a ugly pinch.
EDIT: Fixed it. I just had the shape wrong and had some faces that were the complete opposite of flat.
This part is driving me nuts. This is what I'm trying to model:
This what I have:
Originally those two supporting loops continued on, but then I ended up with the usual unwanted pinching. I tried a variety of different loop directions, but the smooth result was horrific every time. On top of that, I'm starting to think I don't even have the shape right in the first place, so I might have to extract one half and crash the resulting two meshes into each other, then merge and fix.
Replies
I have! I'm sorry if the standard for this thread is to post your attempt while you ask, its my first time posting in here. Also I could see how the way I phrased my post makes it seem like I haven't tried it. Here was my first shot at it:
Looking at it now is a little embarrassing.
oh man! this is so cool.
thought I would make a little contribution.
I see this problem come up alot on the threads a triangled shape going into a corner and people have problems putting in support edges
and also the if you look i did a render at what to look for in your reflections to show the problem as well.
- if you see waviness on a reflection that is a dead giveaway something is arise or needs to be fixed.
I know, right?
If there was a lightweight, speedy, artist centric freeform nurbs and sub-d hybrid modeler (sans a lot of the extraneous engineering stuff) that would also have a dedicated retopology and baking system that would be killer.
The closest thing I can find is using T-splines with modo and rhino.
(Here's that video again, for people who haven't seen what we are talking about:)
[ame="
http://moi3d.com/
It's the perfect little nurbs application, not as heavy or advanced as rhino(which I love) but it has a lot of the features you would want to quickly put together a hard surface model quickly and accurately, with beautiful edge controls etc.
And it comes with some pretty decent polygon export tools, not perfect, but alot better than rhino.
edit:
it doesn't have much in the way of polygon tools, and it can't really retopo etc, but as a lightweight nurbs tool, it is awesome.
That's awesome. Have you used it to make highpoly hardsurface to bake normals off of? What about more freeform style meshes, not just like angular gun parts for example? Do the polygonal meshses it export's make for good baking geo?
If anyone has some cool unique workflows like this rather than the boring old Maya/Max Turbosmooth jam, I would love to hear about it.
It has freeform tools, and does it pretty well, and I've never really ran into anything that was a struggle. It has the usual boolean tools, and tools like sweep and loft, etc. There is also revolve, fillet, camfer, offset. network, blend.
One of the best bits, and a process I use alot, is creating vectors in illustrator, and importing those and using them as shapes and paths, and lofting them, or using them as cutters, to speed up modelling.
But, I'll post pics and file tonight. Seriously awesome tool. And cheaper and faster than rhino for what a game artist ideally needs.
edit:
The workflow
So here is a quick construction of a jeep front end, excuse the thickness, and lack of camfer on the outer edge (badly done vector on the outside edge prevented the camfer from working):
So my prefered workflow, if it suits what I'm creating, is quickly doing vector outlines/shapes/paths that will assist me in quickly creating whatever i'm creating, in this case, I created the main shape of the grill, and then the shapes I'd use to cut:
I'd then import into MOI, as you can see, I can import an entire document, and I can then select individual paths (you can also edit paths and curves in MOI - MOI converts vector paths to nurb paths)
I then extruded my main shape, used my interior shapes to subtract, and camfered the edges (camfering can be tricky if you haven't setup your units of measurement, or worked to a scale)
Then comes the export, this is where MOI shines, Rhino has decent mesh export options, but MOI is beautiful, it has a load of options to choose from to get the perfect export.
○ Some things to take note when exporting, your selected item is the item that is exported
○ It's adviseable to select weld vertices, especialy if it's a solid object
○ You can increase and decrease poly count very easily, and depending on what you need. So if you need a high poly straight off, you can just push the poly count up. If you want to subsurf it, keep the polys down, but play with the angle. You can usually get something pretty decent.
○ You can also choose between exporting quads and triangles, triangles, and Ngons, Ngons are the most adviseable.
○ Divide Larger Than, this is handy, you can choose the maximum size a surface is before it gets divided, and in the first image, I've only selected curved faces to be divided, in the second image, you'll note I've select all in that dialog, and it has divide every surface on the mesh to be no larger than that measurement - which is great for exporting sculpt ready meshes
export1
export2 - this is great if you want a uniform mesh to sculpt onto
And finally, the result:
This is in modo, I tried blender, but blender somehow does wierd things to my obj import, where it strips out the ngons and puts in quads and triangles, so not sure what is going on there.
But, it works in modo, and should in all other applications as well.
Here are the working files if you want to play:
AI:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20917634/Polycount/MOI-demo/JEEP.ai
3dm (MOI / rhino / other nurb/cad application):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20917634/Polycount/MOI-demo/jeep.3dm
obj:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20917634/Polycount/MOI-demo/jp4.obj
You can also just test yourself:
http://moi3d.com/download.htm
There is a 30day trial with which to test it out, and it's price is a 4th of what Rhino is, it's a great app to have, If your workflow uses it.
Final edit, doesn't really show freeform modelling, but it's there, and all I can suggest is to try it out. The app is very quick to get to grips with, simply by experimenting, documentation isn't really needed.
Did a quick freeform experiment, something similar to the scooter fender in a previous post here:
Using the freeform drawing tool in MOI, and then lofting it to create the surface
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20917634/Polycount/MOI-demo/fender.3dm
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20917634/Polycount/MOI-demo/fender.obj
Just fyi in Blender if you turn off "Select Outer" in the Inset options it'll automatically select the inside part like other 3D apps.
I've got a problem with highpoly geometry - it's a cylinder with some details on the cap side. There is need to make details with hard edges, and keep cylinder's form. Looks easy, but I tried a lot of variations, and all of them make problems. Can someone help me?
A simple solution might be to try deleting every second one and create quads instead. Might be less stress on that vert and you could get away with it...
I got the look I was after for the face on this guy, but the topology looks atrocious... Not sure if should even fix it since it looks alright smoothed but it's still bothering me... I tried doing it about 3 times and not really sure where to go with my edges on this..
I gave it a try, but didn't turn out to well
Here's what i'm trying to make (ref)
http://oi45.tinypic.com/v2tmp4.jpg
It's basically 2 cylinders perpendicular to each other, but 1 flows into the other one, while the other one does not
Here's my attempt;
(Geometry) http://oi47.tinypic.com/241v4he.jpg
(turbo & isoline) http://oi47.tinypic.com/5v0jo7.jpg
(turbo) http://oi46.tinypic.com/r93eig.jpg
(turbo no edges) oi50.tinypic.com/2a85b1s.jpg
Thanks in advance,
Cipher
So first off is I think you could easily do that with separate geo to make your life a lot easier. If you really wanted to model it all as one piece then you just need more geometry on your starting cylinder so you can get the proper support loops in it.
However why do you need to model it in that detail? How large is this object going to be on the model? If its fairly small you might not even have enough texture resolution to have that detail in your normal map.
It is a HP college assignment and they want us to model it as detailed as we can, so modelled pretty much everythin on this object (it's a vintage folding camera), including screw thread and other small bits, this one of of them, it's what allows you to wind up the film roll inside.
Anyways, as for texturing, we're not going to, it'll stay in 3DS max, and materials will be used as well as some textures to just be overlayed onto the material, so there's no need to worry about normal maps yet
I'll give seperate geo a go, thanks
and here's the full project; http://i47.tinypic.com/34ouj61.png
Kind regards,
Cipher
EDIT; managed to work it out using seperate geo , it's not exactly as i want it to be, but close enough
modelled 2 parts individually and then attached them together, see images below for how and the result
Thanks again
That IS the super hidden technique. Now prove your skills, grasshoppa! :P
I'm doing this in sub-d, i plan to animate the robot(maybe).so its not for videogames.
i want to maintain a good cylinder topology in the "hatch" for the robot arms, but i can't. I used bevel, and manual edge loops; i can't accomplished this. There's a way i could do it?
Look the pictures, thanks in adv.
1. Modell the thing
2. Extrude in the part you want to be the Hatch
3. Extrude it out
4. Extract that part you want to use as "Hatch" Door.
5. Smooth and see if it fits.
uhhh... by floating them off of the face underneath?
*shrug*
I am curious how EQ made the lip parts around the intersections of the body pieces.
Like where the taillight meets the back wheels cover and in front:
Just Modo's topology tool, and a spline loft I guess?
Here's my issue:
I'm willing to add this:
On this:
I don't really know what to start with. Should I make another model and then attach it?
By the way, I got another question: http://prntscr.com/12zd6c
Is this the right way to end this kind of model?
Wouldn't a single poly be better?
If it's your low poly, that n-gon (single poly) is going to be triangulate anyway so there's no savings to be had there. The only way to make it cheaper is to use less sides on that cylinder.
so if you can't be bothered to cap it properly, leave it as a n-gon (as Warren said), atleast for max the left one is how it gets triangulated automaticly, but don't make it end in a single vert.
yes
Rule of thumb
if the object is a seperate object in real-life, you can create it as such (but you dont have to)
I imported my model into Zbrush to make my normal map, but my different models seems not to be attached together...
http://prntscr.com/134n74
What's the point of making different objects then?
yep
Merging in the lowpoly I hope you mean, which I do as much as possible, if you mean in the highpoly, theres basically no reason to ever do that.
Just.... No. If this is the case, you likely do not understand how to bake in Maya or Max, as all 3 have basically the same baking functionality and Max and Maya by default do some things better than xnormal. But really, I can get the same quality bakes out of any of those 3 apps, so I wouldn't trust anyone who tells you "Z App is better at baking" or anything like that.
Unless you're talking AO, because Maya sucks at baking AO, lol.
What's the best way to finish this? http://prntscr.com/13ih5s
I seriously don't know what to do right now, stuck with that horse piece.
The best thing to do is to take the picture, and draw poly-flow lines over it. That will give you a better idea of where you need to make extrusions, particularly for the jawline of the knight. Don't be afraid to make cuts, so long as the loops connect... This is better for subdivision, as you don't get ugly pinching artifacts and other stuff...
EDIT: Very quick paintover of what I mean
http://prntscr.com/13klzl
Thus you can more clearly see where you need to put geometry
Hope it helps
Wireframe: http://i.minus.com/iArGcA36AyDf9.png
Geometry: http://i.minus.com/ijtnIq2DYHZRK.png
A: I don't want to have the sharpened edges on the surface that is supposed to be flat but I need the edge loops running through the mesh to make everything else sharp. What would I do?
B: Pinching sucks. I created a pole so that the wires wouldn't go around the vehicle give the same effect as in example A. But instead now I'm left with a ugly pinch.
OBJ File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dycc9nc1m4ppwb/Banshee.obj
This part is driving me nuts. This is what I'm trying to model:
This what I have:
Originally those two supporting loops continued on, but then I ended up with the usual unwanted pinching. I tried a variety of different loop directions, but the smooth result was horrific every time. On top of that, I'm starting to think I don't even have the shape right in the first place, so I might have to extract one half and crash the resulting two meshes into each other, then merge and fix.
Thoughts?