Hey guys, I started my first vehicle: The M47 Patton. I try to build up the whole model by following the Dozer tutorial from EAT3D. But my tank does have a turret and a dozer does not. And I'm having a lot of a problems getting the shape right. In fact, I don't even know how to start. I already tried with a cyllinder, a 'oil tank' (3Ds max primitive ) but at the end, it never looks like a turret at all. Especially the part where the barrel is connected to the turret seems to be a problem for me.
Can you help me out? Or maybe link me to a good tutorial? Ofcourse there won't be a tutorial which covers the 'making of the M47 Patton' but maybe there are tutorials which cover similar objects.
I added one picture of the Patton. More pictures can be found here.
Why not doing old fasioned box modeling?Just block out the base shapes and refine further, add some floating details add the barrel and stuff.
This part is one of the easier ones, the others are more difficult to be honest.
Why not doing old fasioned box modeling?Just block out the base shapes and refine further, add some floating details add the barrel and stuff.
This part is one of the easier ones, the others are more difficult to be honest.
You think? Mmmmm... Maybe I'm just making it too hard for myself. I will give it another try and show you guys the result.
Thx for your fast reply SpeCter, much appreciated.
Just try it and we´ll point out whats going wrong or what you can do better.Just make sure the blockout is correct and you have enough geo to work with.From then it can only get better.
I spent a lot of time on the turret and I have a result which looks 'acceptable'. Far from perfect but it's a start. Can you guys take a look at it? I also added the .obj which you can find here.
What would be a good tutorial to learn to model that kind of shapes? Maybe the automotive tutorial from Digital Tutors?
You mean something like this? I,m not sure which part of your turret you having trouble with. **IMAGE**
Yes idd, that's what the front of the turret should look like. A bit more 'oval' I guess, but that's not the issue. Could you please post a wire of that withouth the turbosmooth? That would be much appreciated, thx in advance.
I add some pictures of the parts which are causing 'problems'. Adding the right support edges to get the shape perfect is also diffucult for me at those areas. You can find the .obj file HERE (same as previous).
Hey guys, I started my first vehicle: The M47 Patton. I try to build up the whole model by following the Dozer tutorial from EAT3D
Your current level of complexity is far beyond what is needed at this stage in development. First you need to blockout the shapes before refining them.
Eat3d is great but the models are different so it probably wouldn't help all that much. Just go around the model and block in all areas first then move edges, verts to shape the basic blocks. After this create your chamfers and other meshsmooth supporting details. Leave all the attached stuff like hooks, handles and bolts etc. till last.
I wanted to ask a general question.
In case of cylinders when you need to add more geo, about how many sides are we speaking? Is there any general tips? I know trial and error also works but just to be closer to the optimal solution.
It really does depend on the situation and what you are trying to achieve. Generally the more sides you use, the sharper it will keep your edges. So you want to use as many sides as necessary to maintain the shape that you are going for. But if you really want just an idea, I would say anywhere between 32 and 60 sided cylinders can handle most shapes.
Someone once said at some point in this long thread, something along the lines of 'start with more sides than you think you'd need / normally use, and then double that'.
Yes idd, that's what the front of the turret should look like. A bit more 'oval' I guess, but that's not the issue. Could you please post a wire of that withouth the turbosmooth? That would be much appreciated, thx in advance.
I add some pictures of the parts which are causing 'problems'. Adding the right support edges to get the shape perfect is also diffucult for me at those areas. You can find the .obj file HERE (same as previous).
You should simplify your topology because yours is too messy. You should study the tank and break it down to simple shapes and focus on the small details later. For the turret break it down to a low cylinder 12 sided (low geometry = easier to control shape) and the back end is just box, both of them should be then merged together. Build them into each other and then add more loops to define the shape.
The image below should give you an idea on how the topology should 'kind of' be(as i did this quick and probably should have taken abit more consideration on topology flow for the support edges to come later), its low geometry and the light edges are ones that could be added later to define the shape abit more. The point is, its alot cleaner and you dont need as much geometry as you have to define the shape, just make it simple!
I used the paint-over as a reference and I think the result looks already better:
But still, that curve at the front is causing problems. I already tried different things but I just can't get it right. I uploaded more reference pictures to my webspace so you guys have an idea of what it should look like. Impossible to explain in words...
Reference pictures (ref1-7) + updated .obj file (turret.rar): HERE
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate your help. Hope I ain't annoying you with my tank, haha.
@Brick Top - This was done very quickly(rusted) with no blueprint so its incredibly inaccurate!!!(its crap basically :P so i shouldn't really be giving you any advice but i will anyway :poly142: :P)
So once again you have abit too much geometry where some areas have way too much, but it is a good improvement. Here's what i would do if i was making the tank properly
(1)I would start as low poly as possible and try to stay low enough as im building the tank up.
(2)Notice that i only add more geometry(loops) when i need it. I dont care if the correct 'smooth' shape of the tank is not there at current stage and i dont give a shit if the tank looks crap at the current stage too, im just focusing on building up the tank and keeping its basic shape. The verts can be moved around later to make it perfect later.
(3)During the building up process I do not ever use meshsmooth or turbosmooth until im ready to add the support edge which wont be until a long time.(but in this case i did, just to show the corner bit and i wasn't going to spend that long on the tank example)
(4) I used edge constraints(alot) for the round area of the tank so the edges could be spaced apart quite evenly and that the basic shape would also hold. It came in handy when i added those two extra support edges with flow connect for the corner bit.
Thank you again CAD, that illustration is very helpful! Gonna give it another try asap, but got some work for shool so first things first! But thx a million!
Ugh. This is my first attempt at a complex high poly object(for normal map) that I have actually stuck at. I must admit, its driving me crazy! This has been on and off for weeks, I have kicked, screamed and felt like giving up numerous times. Never have I wanted to learn something which has frustated me this much!
Anyway this is a very early WIP. And also, no shadows as max keeps crashing when I render with lights. :S
These are the parts I am stuck with(wireframes).
My biggest problem has been the grip. This is about my 5th attempt at it, but I am still not happy with it. What would be a better approach to modeling it? Any suggestions or examples from an experienced subdiver would be great! ;D
Your results look pretty good but to topology sucks, try to keep all quads, and make sure you have evenly distributed polygons. For the small details I would use a bump or normal map.
Look at the wireframe below to get a idea of the poly flow.
obliviboy: I'm not so sure I would point to that model as a guide for mesh flow, you've got tons of noob mistakes happening there.
woody: your grip there looks fine, except for a spot or two, i mean are you worried that the wires look messy or something? It seems to look good in 3d, it could use some fatter bevels to give you some more punchy shapes but other than that....
For that small detial, you have two options basically:
A. Add in a bunch of cuts, and use a bunch of geometry and just... model it. =P
B. use floaters for the little square shapes.
[edit] Something like this:
Its a bit messy but you wouldn't ever notice at the intended scale, you could easily clean it up a bit too, this was just really quickly modeled.
EQ: That example is just what I needed, thank you =D. I seem to struggle with my approach to certain shapes, which I suppose comes with my lack of experience with subdivision modeling. As you can see I am 'ok' at getting the large shapes, but completely fail at more complex smaller details.
obliviboy: I believe that example is using meshsmooth as opposed to turbosmooth which I believe looks alot neater.
perna: Do you mean use floating geo? I don't want to rely too much on floating geo at this point while I am trying to learn hard surface modeling. IMO floating geo is an awesome shortcut for someone who is experienced already in subd modeling.
With the grip, I found myself adding more and more cuts until it was practically impossible to alter the shape. So I began moving stuff around to make stuff look right which resulted in extremelly messy geometry. You say the grip looks right, but it's bugging me too much to be able to continue/settle with it. Your help is much appreciated and any suggestions on how you would approach the grip would be great! (Feel kinda' cheeky asking for MORE help lol)
I also like to post on my 3D blog workflow stuff I do for future reference...I just want to stress to people how blocking out my model has made life much easier!
PS: I am in no way trying to tutor anyone. I am a noob to subdivision modeling too so I am merely just posting what I have learnt/found useful.
Thanks for the advice! Decided I needed to work on my workflow so modeled this red dot sight. I may sound like a noob, but this is the first model I have done where I have blocked out all the shapes before. I cannot stress how usefull it is!
I also like to post on my 3D blog workflow stuff I do for future reference...Blocking out my model with primitives has made life much easier!
PS: I am in no way trying to tutor anyone. I am a noob to subdivision modeling too so I am merely just posting what I have learnt/found useful.
I want to model that guy, le cute wolf, but i have not idea how to proceed !
Can someone give me some advice, on wich soft must I use and how shape this ! I'm quite desparate, i'm searching but i don't find a solution
Hey all, first time poster in this thread. Been trying for way to long to get this shap right, any suggestions? I'm doing the high poly, so I need all the support edges for nice rounding, but I am getting a lot of pinching Here is the ref, and what I have so far. Maybe the pinching isn't noticeable and I am just nit picking? Either way I want it done right! Thanks in advance Also the grenade launcher is an M79 if that helps.
I can upload the file if anyone wants it, not sure how this works exactly.
It is probably not the best idea to show super zoomed in pictures of details you are having problems modeling. It might be just me but I am struggling to even make out what your modeling nevermind help you with it, lol.
IMO you should show a pic of the whole reference/model and maybe circle the parts you need help with. That way another artist can see what your actually trying to achieve, and see ALL your geometry.
Just a thought...
PS: Also, EQ and others have mentioned this several times in this extremelly long but insanely helpful thread. 'Your edges are too hard and would not translate well onto a normal map'.
I want to model that guy, le cute wolf, but i have not idea how to proceed !
Can someone give me some advice, on wich soft must I use and how shape this ! I'm quite desparate, i'm searching but i don't find a solution
Thanks !
This is a hard surface thread, so i dont think you are going to get much help for something like this. Prob. better posting somewhere else on the forum
Woody: Yea I guess I forgot everyone doesn't know what exactly the piece looks like :P hope these pictures help. As for the sharp edges... it's a really bad habit of mine, that I am trying to break.
Yeah, one of the problems you're having with this shape, is you've simply modeled in in an inaccurate way, the width of this piece is pretty much planar with some cut outs, but you've got the thickness varying as it goes down. So in this case, just paying better attention to the ref, you'll notice the shape is less complex and easier to model than what you're trying to do. =P
Forms can quickly get muddled as we realize the proportions are not quite right, and have to make a lot of tweaks for it to make sense in 3d, so as Racer says, doing a good blockout is essential.
Racer445: Thanks a lot for that! I can see your edge flow makes a lot more sense. I will try giving that a go. Did you make this from starting with just cube, or did you use cylinders as well?
EQ: Ya I guess I ended up furthering myself from the true shape while trying to get what I thought would work. Will try and examine this a little more before I build it. Thanks!
Hey guys, I have an annoying problem in one of my viewports. The information at the upper left corner is gone. You know: [+][Perspective][Smooth + highlights]... That kind of things.
It isn't there anymore and don't know how to get it back. Any suggestions? Thx in advance!
Hey guys, I have an annoying problem in one of my viewports. The information at the upper left corner is gone. You know: [+][Perspective][Smooth + highlights]... That kind of things.
It isn't there anymore and don't know how to get it back. Any suggestions? Thx in advance!
This is a thread for hard surface modeling, not any old tech issue, and you didn't list the software you're using.
But the answer is to push the 7 key (the one above the keys, not the numpad)
I want that curly piece. Any ideas on how to model that? I already tried to use a simple cylinder and after adding some loops twisting it but I never get this overlapping look.
This is slightly off topic. But something which is really bugging me! Anybody know how you would set a material by default. So every primitive object I create will be a default material as opposed to the 3ds max standard random colour thing.
Obviously subd modeling has you creating new objects all the time so having to open materials editor EVERYTIME I create a new object is tedious.
Only thing I have come across on my search is this...But doesn't seem to work with 2010?
You can stop the random colors from the Object Color menu.
Here is a rough script that I made to set selected objects to black wire frame and the first material in the Material Editor slot and apply a 50 specularity.
Thanks for the script! However I am pretty dumb when it comes to MAX script...I have tried MAXScript > New Script and pasted your code but to no avail. Also tried saving as a max script file. Am I doing this correctly?
i didnt follow the exact same method but it gave me a idea that worked perfect, i made serverl splines to match the profile of different parts and used bridge between them
Replies
Can you help me out? Or maybe link me to a good tutorial? Ofcourse there won't be a tutorial which covers the 'making of the M47 Patton' but maybe there are tutorials which cover similar objects.
I added one picture of the Patton. More pictures can be found here.
Thx in advance guys!
This part is one of the easier ones, the others are more difficult to be honest.
You think? Mmmmm... Maybe I'm just making it too hard for myself. I will give it another try and show you guys the result.
Thx for your fast reply SpeCter, much appreciated.
What would be a good tutorial to learn to model that kind of shapes? Maybe the automotive tutorial from Digital Tutors?
Yes idd, that's what the front of the turret should look like. A bit more 'oval' I guess, but that's not the issue. Could you please post a wire of that withouth the turbosmooth? That would be much appreciated, thx in advance.
I add some pictures of the parts which are causing 'problems'. Adding the right support edges to get the shape perfect is also diffucult for me at those areas. You can find the .obj file HERE (same as previous).
I need to fill in those holes. What do?
Your current level of complexity is far beyond what is needed at this stage in development. First you need to blockout the shapes before refining them.
Eat3d is great but the models are different so it probably wouldn't help all that much. Just go around the model and block in all areas first then move edges, verts to shape the basic blocks. After this create your chamfers and other meshsmooth supporting details. Leave all the attached stuff like hooks, handles and bolts etc. till last.
In case of cylinders when you need to add more geo, about how many sides are we speaking? Is there any general tips? I know trial and error also works but just to be closer to the optimal solution.
You should simplify your topology because yours is too messy. You should study the tank and break it down to simple shapes and focus on the small details later. For the turret break it down to a low cylinder 12 sided (low geometry = easier to control shape) and the back end is just box, both of them should be then merged together. Build them into each other and then add more loops to define the shape.
The image below should give you an idea on how the topology should 'kind of' be(as i did this quick and probably should have taken abit more consideration on topology flow for the support edges to come later), its low geometry and the light edges are ones that could be added later to define the shape abit more. The point is, its alot cleaner and you dont need as much geometry as you have to define the shape, just make it simple!
But still, that curve at the front is causing problems. I already tried different things but I just can't get it right. I uploaded more reference pictures to my webspace so you guys have an idea of what it should look like. Impossible to explain in words...
Reference pictures (ref1-7) + updated .obj file (turret.rar): HERE
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate your help. Hope I ain't annoying you with my tank, haha.
@Brick Top - This was done very quickly(rusted) with no blueprint so its incredibly inaccurate!!!(its crap basically :P so i shouldn't really be giving you any advice but i will anyway :poly142: :P)
So once again you have abit too much geometry where some areas have way too much, but it is a good improvement. Here's what i would do if i was making the tank properly
(1)I would start as low poly as possible and try to stay low enough as im building the tank up.
(2)Notice that i only add more geometry(loops) when i need it. I dont care if the correct 'smooth' shape of the tank is not there at current stage and i dont give a shit if the tank looks crap at the current stage too, im just focusing on building up the tank and keeping its basic shape. The verts can be moved around later to make it perfect later.
(3)During the building up process I do not ever use meshsmooth or turbosmooth until im ready to add the support edge which wont be until a long time.(but in this case i did, just to show the corner bit and i wasn't going to spend that long on the tank example)
(4) I used edge constraints(alot) for the round area of the tank so the edges could be spaced apart quite evenly and that the basic shape would also hold. It came in handy when i added those two extra support edges with flow connect for the corner bit.
Anyway this is a very early WIP. And also, no shadows as max keeps crashing when I render with lights. :S
These are the parts I am stuck with(wireframes).
My biggest problem has been the grip. This is about my 5th attempt at it, but I am still not happy with it. What would be a better approach to modeling it? Any suggestions or examples from an experienced subdiver would be great! ;D
Your results look pretty good but to topology sucks, try to keep all quads, and make sure you have evenly distributed polygons. For the small details I would use a bump or normal map.
Look at the wireframe below to get a idea of the poly flow.
woody: your grip there looks fine, except for a spot or two, i mean are you worried that the wires look messy or something? It seems to look good in 3d, it could use some fatter bevels to give you some more punchy shapes but other than that....
For that small detial, you have two options basically:
A. Add in a bunch of cuts, and use a bunch of geometry and just... model it. =P
B. use floaters for the little square shapes.
[edit] Something like this:
Its a bit messy but you wouldn't ever notice at the intended scale, you could easily clean it up a bit too, this was just really quickly modeled.
obliviboy: I believe that example is using meshsmooth as opposed to turbosmooth which I believe looks alot neater.
perna: Do you mean use floating geo? I don't want to rely too much on floating geo at this point while I am trying to learn hard surface modeling. IMO floating geo is an awesome shortcut for someone who is experienced already in subd modeling.
With the grip, I found myself adding more and more cuts until it was practically impossible to alter the shape. So I began moving stuff around to make stuff look right which resulted in extremelly messy geometry. You say the grip looks right, but it's bugging me too much to be able to continue/settle with it. Your help is much appreciated and any suggestions on how you would approach the grip would be great! (Feel kinda' cheeky asking for MORE help lol)
PS: I am in no way trying to tutor anyone. I am a noob to subdivision modeling too so I am merely just posting what I have learnt/found useful.
I also like to post on my 3D blog workflow stuff I do for future reference...Blocking out my model with primitives has made life much easier!
PS: I am in no way trying to tutor anyone. I am a noob to subdivision modeling too so I am merely just posting what I have learnt/found useful.
Can someone give me some advice, on wich soft must I use and how shape this ! I'm quite desparate, i'm searching but i don't find a solution
Thanks !
I can upload the file if anyone wants it, not sure how this works exactly.
IMO you should show a pic of the whole reference/model and maybe circle the parts you need help with. That way another artist can see what your actually trying to achieve, and see ALL your geometry.
Just a thought...
PS: Also, EQ and others have mentioned this several times in this extremelly long but insanely helpful thread. 'Your edges are too hard and would not translate well onto a normal map'.
This is a hard surface thread, so i dont think you are going to get much help for something like this. Prob. better posting somewhere else on the forum
Forms can quickly get muddled as we realize the proportions are not quite right, and have to make a lot of tweaks for it to make sense in 3d, so as Racer says, doing a good blockout is essential.
EQ: Ya I guess I ended up furthering myself from the true shape while trying to get what I thought would work. Will try and examine this a little more before I build it. Thanks!
It isn't there anymore and don't know how to get it back. Any suggestions? Thx in advance!
This is a thread for hard surface modeling, not any old tech issue, and you didn't list the software you're using.
But the answer is to push the 7 key (the one above the keys, not the numpad)
Cylinder, spline etc. I know I dont want to manually shape it with plane extrudes.
I want that curly piece. Any ideas on how to model that? I already tried to use a simple cylinder and after adding some loops twisting it but I never get this overlapping look.
Obviously subd modeling has you creating new objects all the time so having to open materials editor EVERYTIME I create a new object is tedious.
Only thing I have come across on my search is this...But doesn't seem to work with 2010?
http://paulneale.com/scripts/autoMaterial/autoMaterial.htm
Anything?
Here is a rough script that I made to set selected objects to black wire frame and the first material in the Material Editor slot and apply a 50 specularity.
macroScript Macro12 category:"DragAndDrop" toolTip:"Gray Spec Material" ( $.wirecolor = color 0 0 0 meditMaterials[1].specularLevel = 50 $.material = meditMaterials[1] )HTHbeen looking at it for a while with no clue.
i dont care so much about the details since i will be stylizing it a bit but im having trouble with the overall shape.
Clockwise from top left:
1. spline
2. renderable spline converted to mesh
3. delete some edges and caps
4. extrude and refine
5. symmetry
6. smooth
i didnt follow the exact same method but it gave me a idea that worked perfect, i made serverl splines to match the profile of different parts and used bridge between them