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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • EarthQuake
    Floating bits are most definitely used. I think theres an easy option to turn off shadow casting on backfacing geo in max, but no option like that in xnormal. But regardless, painting out the AO errors is WAYYYYYY faster than the alternative.
  • Eric Chadwick
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 13
    great links and nice holes ;-)
  • fr0gg1e
    SnowGhost wrote: »
    I'm working on a futuristic space fighter and have ran into a problem that I cant seem to get my head around. I'm trying to model in two or three "holes" where a weapon will be mounted into. This is similiar to how many modern aircraft have machine guns mounted in their skins. The photo here is exactly what I'm trying to do. (By the way if anyone knows what these "holes" are called technically please let me know.)

    Keep in mind that all the while that this is going to be modeled into a curved surface. Everything I've tried results in really bad geometry.

    ist2569831machinegunjeteg7.jpg

    What I would do is just separate the brownish plate from the grey part and make a different object out of it. This way I wont have to worry about my topology being perfect everywhere on my model. Quick messy example, I just modeled it planar then assembled pieces and bent the result.
    roundstuffen7.th.jpgthpix.gif
    you can download the OBJ here
    Also as I dont have the pretention to be the most knowledgable at high res stuff, especially compared to Per or Earthquake, feel free to show me a way to do this better / cleaner =)
  • Michael Knubben
    Yup, those paths are in illustrator.

    Inkscape is a free alternative, and would work well for those tapering lines. I'm not sure if it can do everything (the 'simplify lines' filter in particular), but it's worth a try.
    I don't think max imports svg's, but wings3d and Blender do, I think.

    In the end, it's probably less work to just do them in Max.
  • Frankie
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    Frankie polycounter lvl 18
    I've got a good tip! Make shortcut keys!!! If you can only be bothered to make one assign Delete to something other than the Delete key!
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    Delete mapped to X??? No way, I hit X by accident enough and turn off my gizmos. So I should at least unmap X so my gizmos don't turn off. But I don't need it to be easy to delete thing :P

    I've been using XNormal on floating polys with no weird issues, of course I usually give the floating polys different UV space.
  • Frankie
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    Frankie polycounter lvl 18
    hey per I was messing about in max and wanted to know how to get out of editable poly without clicking the element mode I'm in.
  • Eric Chadwick
    The sub-object hotkeys are toggles (hit 1 to enter vertex, hit it again to exit)
  • Michael Knubben
    On the topic of hotkeys:

    Look at your keyboard. What's the biggest key, on which your thumbs probably rest a lot of the time?
    In max, this is mapped to locking your model. This is shit. Remap that to something that makes sense! Much more important than remapping delete, I think.
  • Frankie
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    Frankie polycounter lvl 18
    Eric: Pressing the number key twice dosent take me out of edit poly. I have to actually move my mouse and click it to get out of it. Do you have to change something to make it work how you descriped?

    Pea: Remapping delete is the most important.
  • Eric Chadwick
    Nope, just works. Might be I have them set up in the Main UI? Can't remember.
  • Frankie
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    Frankie polycounter lvl 18
    Never mind I figure it out, 6 gets me out of edit poly!
  • Saidin311
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    Saidin311 polycounter lvl 11
    Not really a question about shapes, but more about method.

    When using turbosmooth is it kosher to smooth by smoothing groups? I'm not sure if or when you would ever use this type of thing. But will it or does it work? This would be for creating normal maps and such so I would assume it goes under the "if it looks good and works then use it".

    I just whipped up this quick shot to show what I mean.
    kosher.jpg
  • Ghostscape
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    Ghostscape polycounter lvl 13
    Saidin311 wrote: »
    Not really a question about shapes, but more about method.

    When using turbosmooth is it kosher to smooth by smoothing groups? I'm not sure if or when you would ever use this type of thing. But will it or does it work? This would be for creating normal maps and such so I would assume it goes under the "if it looks good and works then use it".

    I just whipped up this quick shot to show what I mean.
    kosher.jpg

    That'll be ok, but you aren't going to get the really nice edge that will catch the light properly at the smoothing group break. If it was finely beveled you'd get this nice 1px edge that would light up with the spec at certain angles with either side being less specced, and it would pop and define the shape a bit better.
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 12
    ok I got one, it isnt so much a how to model it, more along the lines of a good way to APPROACH modeling this area.. Should it be part of the same unit or should this area be its own chunk? I have the plane right now in chunks but the whole middle area is non existant from pictures I found it looks like its one smooth chunk but for modeling reasons I Cant figure out a good way to approach this..

    suggestions anyone? (Yes I need to make landing gear as well)

    800px-C-5Mart.jpg
  • Pedro Amorim
    Saidin311 wrote: »
    Not really a question about shapes, but more about method.

    When using turbosmooth is it kosher to smooth by smoothing groups? I'm not sure if or when you would ever use this type of thing. But will it or does it work? This would be for creating normal maps and such so I would assume it goes under the "if it looks good and works then use it".

    I just whipped up this quick shot to show what I mean.
    kosher.jpg

    dunno what you are trying to do, but using turbosmoth by smothgroups doesnt subdivides the mesh smothly. this is something you can do.
    cube.jpg
    link
    http://www.edgesize.com/pics/cube.jpg
  • Pedro Amorim
  • Saidin311
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    Saidin311 polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks bitmap :)

    I do know how to model dat shape so to speak. It was more just a curious question if subdividing by smoothing groups is a proper method for creating a high poly, which it really isn't because it doesn't give those nice spec highlights.

    And also, thanks for the tip about the sphereify modifier, didn't even think of using it!
  • bluekangaroo
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    bluekangaroo polycounter lvl 13
    sweet tut pedro!
  • Japhir
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    Japhir polycounter lvl 14
    nice bitmap :D.
    but wouldn't it be better if you'd connect the "corners" of the circle with the corners of the box? that way you'd have quads only.
  • Pedro Amorim
    yeah. it would make quads. but i dont know.. i think i prefer not having poles on that zone.
  • EarthQuake
    Yeah, you can see he easily gets the desired results with what same may call "bad" geometry, the main thing is that if it works it works, its a waste of time to think about it any more than that unless you have some really specific reason to do so.
  • Saidin311
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    Saidin311 polycounter lvl 11
    Ok, I got one.

    I've got to do some rope-style trim on a part. Whats the best way to go about this?

    This is kinda what I'm trying to do, only I'm wrapping my "rope" around a cylindrical object.

    RopeTrim01.jpg
  • Michael Knubben
    I only know how to do that in Silo, but I'm sure it'll work basically the same in Max/maya/etc...
    This guy explains it very well in the top video (modeling a coil): http://www.andykinsella.co.uk/tutorials.html

    You'll need to convert your lines to splines, I suppose, but after that you should be able to turn them into shelled geometry.
    If anyone has another way to do this, I'd be very interested!

    Actually, you could just model one coil and tile it into another mesh, that'd work.
  • Pedro Amorim
    ok. that's easy. lemme take a fez pic to show you.
  • claydough
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    claydough polycounter lvl 10
    Saidin311 wrote: »
    Ok, I got one.



    This is kinda what I'm trying to do, only I'm wrapping my "rope" around a cylindrical object.

    do one wrap and duplicate up the cylinder
  • Pedro Amorim
    saidin.jpg
    something like this?
  • Pedro Amorim
    so, this time i used max.
    so just create an helix and add lots of curves, both radius need to be the same.

    you can turn on, render in viewport, and add like 7 segments for the helix.
    convert to poly. add a ffd 2*2*2 and select the 4right control points and pull them down.
    then you can, scale the helix down on all axis, and then scale them up on just the Z axis. and bam youre done.
  • bluekangaroo
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    bluekangaroo polycounter lvl 13
    Thought this would be a good opp to share some of my thoughts and exp with subd with my latest model....As you can see with my control mesh; it is far from perfect. I have quite a few Ngons and even triangles, but Ive learned that even they can be controlled to a degree and if I hadnt have told you they were in my model, you probably wouldnt even know they were there in the first place. I try to keep everything quaded as much I can but a lot of the time some loops just get in the way and I find its easiest just to remove them. Theres not much process behind the way I work....just basically as long as it looks good when its smoothed, I could care less how clean my control mesh is.

    socomrendersam0.jpgsocomwiresdv8.jpg
  • Illusions
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    Illusions polycounter lvl 12
    In Bitmap's tutorial for making a circular hole in an object he mentioned that he used a script to make the edges circular, or that you could use a spherify modifier in Max. In Maya you would either select the edges and convert to vertices, or select the vertices themselves, and use a "sculpt deformer" under the Deformation tab (not the same as the Sculpt Geometry tool). Then turn the dropoff to zero, or play with the settings to get it how you want it to look. One problem I have run into though is that it while you can maintain the circular shape when scaling up, if you scale down past the original size of the vertices, the deformer no longer has any affect.
  • Pedro Amorim
    Well, you can also, make a cylinder with 8 sides and use them as a guide to snap the verts to. Or, make a 8sided cylinder and use booleans to create the outline. Kinda like if you were projecting the cylinder on the cube.
    Eric: your model clearly shows that as long as it looks good smothed, it doesnt matter if it has ngons or tris :) good work
  • Mark Dygert
    Pea brought up a good trick in another thread, if you select a few verts and add a spherify modifier it will round them out perfectly then you can extrude the shape.
  • Saidin311
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    Saidin311 polycounter lvl 11
    bitmap wrote: »
    so, this time i used max.
    so just create an helix and add lots of curves, both radius need to be the same.

    you can turn on, render in viewport, and add like 7 segments for the helix.
    convert to poly. add a ffd 2*2*2 and select the 4right control points and pull them down.
    then you can, scale the helix down on all axis, and then scale them up on just the Z axis. and bam youre done.

    Helix ftw. Cheers mate!!
  • EarthQuake
    bitmap wrote: »
    Well, you can also, make a cylinder with 8 sides and use them as a guide to snap the verts to. Or, make a 8sided cylinder and use booleans to create the outline. Kinda like if you were projecting the cylinder on the cube.
    Eric: your model clearly shows that as long as it looks good smothed, it doesnt matter if it has ngons or tris :) good work

    And even easier than all these silly solutions, is just select the 4 verts and scale em up until it looks round enough. Eyeballing it FTW.
  • Pedro Amorim
    here is a new way to make rope.
    rope.jpg
  • Pedro Amorim
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    And even easier than all these silly solutions, is just select the 4 verts and scale em up until it looks round enough. Eyeballing it FTW.

    ahah, yeah. forgot that way! altough that way only works for 8 sides. if you have more verts and want to spherefy them that way wont work.
  • acidrain
    Hi folks,

    This is a super noob question, but..

    I'm just starting out modeling and I'm having issues maintaining the shape of certain things after subdividing. Here are some screenshots of a canister I'm working on in Silo:

    Control Cage:
    2rzxq8p.png

    Subdivided:
    nd0nrq.png

    What I want to do is maintain the rectangular inset on the side of the canister. As you can see it turns into an oval shape after subdividing. What should I be doing in order to keep it rectangular?

    Thanks!
  • EarthQuake
    This is another example of just needing to use more geometry. Firstly you'll need more sides to be able to support the curve(1 isnt ever enough to support an inset on a curve, the extra edges here help to retain the sqaureness as well) and secondly you need to cut in some edges near the top and bottom of the shape to harden those corners.
    rectthinghf7.jpg
  • acidrain
    Ah excellent. Thank you.

    I assumed I just needed to throw more geometry at it but I didn't know where. This makes a lot more sense now.
  • Pedro Amorim
    ok, i made a sweet video on how to make coils or whatever it name is.
    Its all non destructive which means that you can make this stuff and then edit the spline and the coil conforms to the path. kinda like these cables:
    mri_power.jpg

    this is the preview of the video:
    preview.jpg
    link to video:
    http://edgesize.com/pics/Coils.mov
  • Mark Dygert
    Great video Pedro! And awesome work on that console.
    I laughed when the mouse danced around some of the boxes, "this is important shit, pay attention!"

    A few points to expand on the technique:
    • Sweep gives you more options then loft. It's modifier based so it stacks well with other modifiers. Loft is a Compound shape and transforms your spline into a "loft" making it a touch difficult to work with. Also the align features are pretty great. Sweep is also more likely to give you good results without having to go in and tweak settings.
    • Smooth corners (select spline verts > right click > upper left quad menu) on the base spline might be easier for your average joe to work with if they aren't accustom to working with the bezier handles. smooth corners cuts down on a lot of the handle tweaking time. If they do this they might want to drop the normalize spline modifier since when you "refine"/add points it tends to spread them out.
    • Also remember that there are several spline painter scripts out there, a great one is from Niel Blevins (AKA SoulBurn). It lets you paint splines on other objects. For example its great at running a wire down an object and across the floor. You can then use the sweep modifiers align tool to customize the offset the sweeped object has from the base spline. so it won't run through the floor but rather along it.
    • Like you said on IM clone the spline and use the clone to make your low poly.
    • For segmented geometry clone long sections and use PathDeform(WSM) to conform it to the spline/path.
  • ivars
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    ivars polycounter lvl 15
    Speaking of ropes.... Here's a little something that I find handy sometimes...

    It can be used on any mesh. It will also automatically double the tri count and turn your mesh in to all quads, rotated 45 degrees :P

    It's very easy to make a script that does these steps.

    twist_tut.jpg

    Edit: Resized the image... it was too big...
  • Kovac
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    Kovac polycounter lvl 13
    Cool little vid Pedro, thanks! Great information all around in this thread.
  • Funky Bunnies
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    Funky Bunnies polycounter lvl 16
    oh man, good idea ivars!
    I just made a quick and simple script to do this in maya
    if anyone thinks they'd find it useful, grab it here

    [edit: I was dumb and had a messed up link :P Fixed now]
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 13
    nice one ivars
  • Ott
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    Ott polycounter lvl 13
    I demand this in a 3dsMax 2008 version!
  • ivars
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    ivars polycounter lvl 15
    Funky Bunnies: That's awesome :)
  • Kawe
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    Kawe polycounter lvl 8
    This thread is really good. A question. How much time do you guys spend planning before starting to model? Or do you just figure out that "these parts will be different chunks" and do one chunk at a time? Maybe you just jump right into it?
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 17
    bitmap wrote: »
    ok, i made a sweet video on how to make coils or whatever it name is.

    link to video:
    http://edgesize.com/pics/Coils.mov

    Dude, zoom your twist deformation graph window vertically... it's painful to watch you scroll up, drag, scroll up, drag... :)
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