Stick
grand marshal polycounter
Hey all!
I am looking for a decent PS2 arcade joystick. The main use would be 2D fighters (6 buttons on 2 rows) but it'd be nice it was flexible enough for use in other games. I guess 8 action buttons would be good for pretty much everything (+start and coin) - at the condition of the extra buttons not getting in the way...
So far I narrowed this down to the X-arcade Solo:
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/X-Arcade-XGM-SOLO-Solo-Joystick/dp/B00008ELB0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1215166586&sr=1-3[/ame]
and the MAS line:
http://www.massystems.com/ProStick.html
However these are quite pricey ... so if you know a good alternative please let me know!
Also I don't really like the extra bottom row of two buttons on the X-arcade.
Some things I would love to have :
-convex buttons (or, being able to swap the original buttons for convex ones!)
-'baseball bat' stick (no fancy short ball thing...)
-clickety feel for the stick
Ideal budget is around 50$ ... could be a bit more, preferably a bit less :P
Thanks!
I am looking for a decent PS2 arcade joystick. The main use would be 2D fighters (6 buttons on 2 rows) but it'd be nice it was flexible enough for use in other games. I guess 8 action buttons would be good for pretty much everything (+start and coin) - at the condition of the extra buttons not getting in the way...
So far I narrowed this down to the X-arcade Solo:
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/X-Arcade-XGM-SOLO-Solo-Joystick/dp/B00008ELB0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1215166586&sr=1-3[/ame]
and the MAS line:
http://www.massystems.com/ProStick.html
However these are quite pricey ... so if you know a good alternative please let me know!
Also I don't really like the extra bottom row of two buttons on the X-arcade.
Some things I would love to have :
-convex buttons (or, being able to swap the original buttons for convex ones!)
-'baseball bat' stick (no fancy short ball thing...)
-clickety feel for the stick
Ideal budget is around 50$ ... could be a bit more, preferably a bit less :P
Thanks!
Replies
For buttons and joysticks, use Happ.
No soldering gun, no drill, no wood saw anywhere close.
I have a screwdriver tho :P
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-m-77-l-49-en-15-arcade+stick-70-2byy.html#reviews
Yet a square gate freaks me out haha!
No idea if swapping the stick and buttons for something better would be easy tho...
I own a 2 player X-arcade stick. The ability to use it on any system and the lifetime warranty it comes with, also the ability to program the buttons was a major perk to me personally, AND the ability to use it on any system, but really all I ever use it for is my PC, and OCCASIONALLY PS/PS2. It would be pretty easy to swap out the parts in it with HAPP parts if you wanted to, I've heard of a lot of people doing this. I should note that a couple of times when I was using my X-arcade to play Tekken 5 on PS2, the stick went completely retarded for a few seconds and wouldn't do anything, I had to hit the mode button a couple times, and it eventually came back, but it WAS pretty annoying
I think for PS2, the Street Fighter Anniversary stick is probably the best one for the money. The only minor gripe I have with it is there's not much of a slant on it, so it feels a little bit odd to me personally. Plus there are some really good Playstation to USB converters available, so it wouldn't be very difficult to use the stick on your PC if you wanted to.
I also saw this on Ebay while looking around:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PRO-SHOCK-ARCADE-STICK-JOYSTICK-for-PLAYSTATION-NEW_W0QQitemZ120272087123QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0806132281r19387
But that aside, I've got two of these bad boys. They have dual outputs for PS2 and xbox 1. I mainly use it for playing 3rd Strike on PS2. I don't have a PS3 yet, so I can't confirm if it works for that.
Features:
- wicked Street Fighter graphic (of just about every character) on the faceplate.
- "clickety" noise on the joystick.
- baseball bat shape as apposed to the lollipop shape.
- convex buttons (also clickety).
- PS2 and xbox 1 compatible.
I got these a while back when they were all the rage, for the Street Fighter 10th Anniversary. Might be just outside your budgetted price range though.
If not this one, I'd settle for the X-Arcade ones. I was going to buy their joystick kits for my MAME machine before I decided to build one myself.
-caseyjones
Also the Street Fighter Anniversary stick seems impossible to find online!
So I am thinking about getting the X-arcade Solo. Was very tempted by a MAS but I hear they disconnect quite often...
If I were to update the stick on the X-arcade, which one would be best? I am confused by the distinction between 4-way and 8-way. I always thought that the diagonals were registered when both horizontal and vertical input were detected at the same time? Like, since one can bust out Ha-Do-Kens in Mame with the mere keyboard keys...
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/competition_joy.htm
Thanks for the help so far! Suggestions still welcome!
if you want to build your own, best sticks/buttons IMO are the MVS/NeoGeo ones, they are rock solid, comfy and accurate. and as casey said, if you buy all the electronics, there's very very little soldering needed. Turning a console Pad into an arcade stick is way trickier though and that part needs a lot of precise soldering (especially hard with the d-pad on the x360 for instance
You can't get wrong with the X-arcade, plus you can use it on PS2/Xbox/DC and PCwhich makes it awesome:)
I have one for my x360 from Hori, I heard they made an awesome stick for PS3, don't know if they made anything for PS2 though.
at 4:40
[ame]
As for the console pad to stick conversion, I think the easy and clean way would be PS1:
http://www.arcadefever.net/MYPROJECT/PSX/PSX.html
So the only tricky part would be to find a good wooden box to fit this in - I can't seem to find a pre-cut box online.
As for parts (either from a X-arcade base or fully custom) I'll go for a 4-way stick then. What model would that be?
And I'll order some Japanese convex buttons. And some caps to remove the extra buttons from the X-arcade as I feel like they would be getting in the way...
but I guess if you plan to replace the stick with Happ anyway, it doesn't really matter
Vahl- You guys got a 3rd strike machine at work? I'm jealous!
There is a VERY noticeable lag in the controls, it makes you feel like you are playing some sort of poor port of your games. At first I thought the lag came from that weird converter box turning the generic X-arcade output to a PS2 controller signal (there is a circuit in that thing, so obviously, lag) but even if hook it straight to my PC through USB the lag is still here. Like, if you close your eyes and hit light punch ... you can clearly hear the punch sound coming out waaaay after the clicking noise of the button!
(Archanex, just so you know I'm not mad at you :P Rather, pissed off by that company selling inferior products yet claiming they are the best with reviews to back them up...)
Just for the kick of it I'll ask them if I can keep the stick, and they refund me like 80% of its price so that I can keep the case and mod it with a PS1 controller circuit board
Actually maybe I could send them back all the guts and keep the wooden box, which turns out to be of great quality haha!
Crazy shit!
Are you sure you just didn't get a dodgy stick or something? Is there a lag calibration tool?
Let me know how you go, dude. I'm sick of playing 3rd Strike at work with a PS2 controller :P
-caseyjones
You can't go wrong with Happ. They sell the exact same models of joysticks that are put in authentic arcade cabinets. And they sell them brand new. Just get one of their standard 8-way joysticks, and whatever buttons you need. Shouldn't run you more than about $50 for all of the parts you would need for a two-player setup, less for a single-player rig. The raw materials for the box shouldn't be too expensive, depending on how much quality you want. If you go full-on lumber, you're going to be dropping some serious coin. If you are satisfied with particle board, your cost will drop dramatically.
If you have access to a router, I would strongly suggest getting the rubber edging from Happ as well. It really lends a more authentic arcade feel to any stick you build. One of the most troublesome aspects to building your own controller is the splicing. In order to make the thing compatible with a game system, you need to take a controller from that system, splice it open, and solder wires to the proper points on the printed circuit board. How you will connect this frankenstein rig to your console is up to you.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=77706
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=864941
I really really want to love it but yeah I'll ship it back. Took the time to take all the measurements and pictures of the wiring to copycat it properly in the near future! Because it turns out X-arcade don't sell empty 'bodies', without the guts. So I'll have to make mine.
Richard! You bring interesting topics. What do you mean for the rubber part, something like a thick bumper running all around the edge? That would be so slick! I couldn't find it on the Happ website tho so if you have a direct link let me know. I was originally thinking about a simple T-mold but your solution simply sounds more fun!
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1181&TabSelect=Reviews
And would that work for a stick ? I bet 8 ways is the way to go since I don't plan to play much PacMan :P
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/ultimate_joy.htm
For the wood work, particle board for sure. As a matter of fact my plan is to buy some cheap IKEA or Target storage furniture and hack the stick box in that. That way I could get a nice laminated finish at no cost and the panels would fit together very easily. My main question is how thick the board holding the stick needs to be. On the X-arcade it's around 8milimeters. (this is doubled on the rest of the panel surface)
The splicing shouldn't be an issue since I am going for a PS1 base. Just ordered a bunch of those online, like 3 bucks each. The circuit board looks extremely simple on both official and third party pads. And then for PC use I can simply rely on a cheap PS2 to USB cable. For me the big advantage of this solution is the absence of any converter box - just legit Playstation hardware taking care of bringing the signal from the buttons to the machine.
Some PS1 wiring guides, one messy and one clean :
http://www.arcadefever.net/MYPROJECT/PSX/PSX.html
http://wrongcrowd.com/arcade/joystickp1.shtml
Will keep the thread updated with progress steps...
(and if someone has good links on how to work a multimeter, let me know! I forgot all about that, used to know this shit like 15 years ago! Like, how do you wire all these buttons to the ground?)
Start and select buttons would be hidden on the sides of the box, out of accidental reach.
Trying to keep myself from ordering the pushbuttons for today ... because I want to pick the right colors haha
Also, no idea on how to protect a print/paintjob like that... Varnish? Sheet of transparent adhesive?
I built my own a few years ago. It's so ugly but was great to build. It's ugly because I have zero woodwork skills, but built a huge 2 player system with credit buttons...and I built a full MAME PC inside it.
I took it to work, where it has languished since we moved desks a while ago. i think I'll dismantle it, bin the case and rebuild it.
There is or at least was a MASSIVE community for home built MAME machines, and even if that's not our full plan, they have loads of designs for layout - dimensions for locating buttons, advice on materials etc.
I reckon your best bet would be some custom cut vinyl
A couple coats of polyurethane plus some fine grain steel wool after each coat should seal it up pretty well.
I like the first and fourth designs best, and like doc_rob said, have the colour drips the same as the button colours.
As for how to seal it, my Street Fighter joysticks have a thin sheet of plastic covering the graphic. It's being held in place by the buttons (they screw on) but you have to be careful not have the wood too thick, because you wouldn't be able to attach the screw on piece.
Next pay day, I'm going out and getting some wood and re-making my MAME joysticks. Here's what they look like at the moment.
Bit of advice... If you make a dual joystick setup, space the joysticks a little further apart. I have them way too close to each other and you end up rubbing shoulders and fighting for space the whole time. I suggest angling them slightly (left one rotated clockwise and right one rotated anti-clockwise). Its what I'll be doing with my next setup.
-caseyjones
The rubber t-molding was what I was talking about for the bumper. And it's just like you described, a rubber bumper that goes around the outside edge of the main piece. Happ controls used to sell that t-molding. Ah, here we go...
http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/acesor/49099900.htm
That's the stuff. About half a dollar per foot. Shouldn't need more than four or five feet at the very most. Run a router around the outside edge with a bit large enough to accommodate the rubber, lay some glue on the t-molding, and then just stick it in to the edge all the way around.
I like your fourth concept image the best. If you're going to be making this arcade stick for your own use, there's no point in putting a generic design on it. Go ahead and splash some of your own art across the face. Generic designs are for mass-market sales. For your own custom rig, don't be afraid to embellish it with your own personality.
The soldering isn't difficult, especially if you've ever done any before. If you have a diagram showing you where to solder for each button, it's cake. Just make sure there aren't any loose metal or wires inside the box when you're done. Its a good idea to isolate the printed circuit board from the rest of the inside of the box. Also, if you get a switching box, it's possible to rig a stick up for multiple different kinds of controllers. The next time I build a stick, I will probably use wireless controller PCBs. Unfortunately, neither the 360 or PS3 have very many good arcade games that would work with standard 8-way arcade controls.
Also, get a Dreamcast. The Dreamcast is GREAT for using with arcade controls, and there are a lot of fantastic arcade-style games available for it.
My arcade site: http://www.polysymphony.com/arcade
I'm sure you already know about it, but there is only one place you need to go for ALL of your questions. http://www.arcadecontrols.com/ The only other forum I visit (although not as often lately)
So I think I'll go for this last design at the bottom : mostly back, white paint drips, no paint splatters. I like the minimalistic feel it gives. Throwing some more color variants here for the sake of it too since I might do another stick later if the first one turns out to be fun to build.
Thanks for the link Richard, that's basically what I found yeah. From you description I thought you meant something much more heavy duty, like an extruded V profile made out of heavy rubber. But a T-mold would be lighter and most likely would look more sleek. I don't have a router but I think I can dremel the rail by hand just fine.
The 8mm wood plate is doubled on the X-arcade, so the front plate thickness really is 1.6mm. It's just that from the inside, you can see that the stick is mounted on the top slice, a square hole being cut on the bottom slice to accommodate it through. A smart way to make the container box slimmer.
Anyways, I'm trying the following. Since I want to avoid unnecessary work I got myself a cheap wooden organizer from Closetmaid. That thing is wide enough for me to make all the necessary parts out of it, and already has a nice black laminated finish. And it obviously comes with all the necessary mounting bits : long screws, wooden bits to keep the plates together aso. And most importantly, everything is 1.3 [edit]centimeters[/edit] thick - just about perfect.
http://www.closetmaid.com/Buy/Where_To_Buy/where_buy.cfm?product_id=1635
So that's 20bucks for the stick box, with a finished look already :P
Luxury, looking great! That would be way overkill and over budget in my case, but yeah great for house parties for sure!
Casey, yup definitely tilt the controls, it makes a world of difference and would look great with the front plate design you already have. Being shoulder to shoulder can be fun, but not all the time!
BTW I notice that you mounted your sticks from the inside. did you just use screws short enough not to stick through? Or maybe you top-mounted them, with little gaps to accommodate the screw heads then use wood dough to hide all that? Bottom mounted sticks worry me a little, I'm wondering if that would be sturdy enough.
Uhhhh...do you mean 1.3 cm? 1.3 millimeters would be really, really thin.
If anything, its the buttons I have to keep tightening from time to time.
Its a bit of a shame you're going to settle with just the white buttons with white drips. The coloured ones look ace. Oh man! You've got me all pumped to kick this shit off!
-caseyjones
1
Started by transferring the shape of the X-arcade to a sheet of newsprint by pressing it on the edges of the front plate. Ghetto, but works perfectly...
2
Straightening up the scan in PS, adding measurements, checking if everything is symmetrical aso.
Everything is in *real world!* centimeters ... except the Competition stick dimensions taken from www.joystickvault.com)
Did you want me to move this thread over to P&P, seeing as this thread has become a WIP of your arcade stick construction?
Keep us updated.
-caseyjones
A bit further into this ...
3
Template to report on the wood...
4
Guidelines for the saw to slide against
5
Frontplate done...
(first lesson learned : do not try to match the markings to accurately - you'll end up shrinking your design!)
6
On with the holes!
Only problem is that I have no hole saw (yet)! So I have to gradually dremel the holes. Kinda slow and noisy. A few more to do... My neighbors hate me :P
Also my plan of keepeing the original laminated finish is now dead, since I have everything sanded and have a dremel 'skidmarks' all over the place :P So! Do you guys know some kind of plastic sheets of adhesive I could put on that? I found the website of a very famous brand but lost it.
Also ordered some lexan (polycarbonate) to cover a potential printed piece of artwork - if I ever go this way instead of painting it straight on the front plate...
HURRY UP WEEKEND! I want to get cranking on mine :P
Oh and I moved the thread to P&P.
-caseyjones
If I lived in any other country I'd build a whole cabinet, as my dreamcast sticks slide around too much when frantic games are played.
Whats holding you back in Japan?
Nice going Pior, kickass project!
Good luck on the project... has me wanting to make one for my xbox
i like the drips that match the button color.
Dude you know you can get basic drill saw pack at home depot cheap. I'm assuming you have a power drill. Nice work doing that with a dremel.
^_^
http://freeware.remakes.org/index.php?a=1&c=h&sz=&sl=&rand=0&al=&search=&d=&order=&pl=&nd=&start=0
and my favorites one :
- AirRade
- Banshiryuu
- eXceed
- eXceed 2nd Vampire
- eXceed 2nd Vampire REX
- eXceed 3rd Jade Penetrate
- Gunroar
- Imperishable Night
- Mountain of Faith
- Perfect Cherry Blossom
- Phantasmagoria of Flower View
- Shikigami No Shiro
- Shikigami No Shiro II
- Shikigami No Shiro III
Maybe I stop now... haha
I have most of the woodwork done now, hopefully the Happ parts are waiting for me in the mailbox.
Funny how I discovered a noise-free hole dremelling technique ... just when I tackled the LAST TWO pushbuttons holes haha! As for diameter Notman I believe Happ buttons are like 2.8+ centimeters so I drilled them 2.7.
First front plate design for now :
But I bought some lexan cover so I'll be able to swap skins under that.
BTW guys. If you ever buy Happ - DON'T use the 2day shipping. They don't show a price preview on their online order form, so you can't tell how much you pay. I was expecting something around 15dollars. But for 40 dollars worth of parts (pushbuttons, stick, 25 feet of T-molding) 2day shipping costs 60BUCKS! WTF haha!
Lesson learned I guess :P
Woodwork's done for the main frame...
Happs are in...
...on with the wiring!
As a matter of fact I had a fully functional stick 2 days ago with wires going straight from the PCB to the buttons. I decided to use the less responsive PS1 pad out of the 3 I have, thinking it was bad just because of dirt inside. And if I mess up the soldering I could use the cleaner ones - good soldering practice this way. Turns out that not all PS1 gamepads are born equal : PCBs are different, and so are their behaviors! On the one I fully soldiered I just couldn't throw fireballs, the pad wouldn't register the last final forward motion if punch was pressed at the same time... Must have been frustrating for the poor guy who used that on his PS!
They have the same serial number. Top one is faulty, bottom one is working... and is also much easier to solder because of many more copper spots being exposed. You need a fuzzy dremel head to remove he conductive coating that covers the buttons connections.
So I switched to a more flexible wiring, to let me swap PCBs if needed. YUM!