Mob Thug

demoncage

Just wanted to aplogize for the bullshit earlier. I way overreacted to the situation and said stuff i didn't mean. I just want to do kickass work. feel free to crit.

beefed up the proportions on him a bit more. obviously not the hands, which i think is a sore point visually right now, but i'll get to them. folds, etc. will of course be added. really just working on underlying form.

thanks for the feedback so far, i think it's really helped the model along, esp. suprore's. as much as i hated it at the time, it really motivated me to get more into the anatomy of the model. i don't want to go too wide on him like that paintover. i feel it'd be too much of a charicature. hopefully he's feeling a bit better now.

MoP

Hey there. Nice to see you've adopted this attitude, it will only help you out in the long run

I think it looks cool, I guess you're planning on taking it into ZBrush or Mudbox to do the cloth folds and detailing?

At the moment I'd be careful with the angle of the legs, they seem like they're tapering outward - I'd pull out the knees a bit and bring the feet closer together. That'd probably give him a more solid grounding.

Keep it up!

demoncage

cool, thanks. yeah, i'm trying to decide wether it'd be better to do folds in sub-d's or have to export a really dense mesh back into max. will check out the legs.

Joseph Silverman

I think this is a step in the right direction, without losing the initial look and style of the model. Keep in mind how the suit fits on him, though. Right now it looks almost like it's too big, which greatly reduces his ability to look whatsoever intimidating.
Even if you don't want to make him as big as in Kiril0t's paintover, take a look at how differently the suit fit on his take on your thug. If you want him to be fairly lean, there's no need to make him much bigger, but a slightly more muscular definition of forms would go a long way torward selling the thuggish/hitman look.

demoncage

suprore, i agree. i think tightening it up a tad bit more around the arms and getting those elbow folds in there will help. i think a big part of that perception of thinness has to do with the hands right now, so maybe i'll focus on that next.

Armanguy

i dont know about anyone else but i like this model alot. only crit i would have his make his shoulders a little wider and a little more muscular. if you dont know what im getting at heres some artwork that i think looks alot like your piece you might notice who he is :P

demoncage

heheh, yeah i know. it's funny, it started out as travis bickle from taxi driver. then i was like, i don't want to deal with the tedium of getting an exact likeness right now, so decided to make him a mob dude. when i searched hitman that was the first character that came up and i was like fuck, but decided to go ahead anyway. thanks for the crits.

Asmuel

Looking good buddy, more personality than generic bald man from hitman. Keep going man

Daz

Just to throw a wrench in the works here, personally I'm not sat in the 'make him look like a bouncer' camp. For starters, the most predictable thing to do isn't always the most interesting, and secondly, a hitman built like Arnie is going to be a little bit more conspicuous than one built like a wuss. Some of the nastiest characters ever portrayed on film were pretty slightly built, including the ultimate, Don 'he touched my front bottom' Logan.
This looks like a solid Zbrush base to me. The hands look a little feminine, but there's enough there to get sculpting.

okkun

I'll second what Daz said. Big and bulky is soo 2004.. I think maybe the head just feels slightly large for the body, the build is fine in your original.

Also I think this has been mentioned but try to play with the silouette a little more, something small such as a kink in pants makes a huge difference.

Remember the Forza crowds? The legs were the best part because they came out so irregular in the scans. Shoot me an email if you want some shots of what I mean.

Head looks great, lots of attitude.

Ruz

I think thats fine now. might be time to get him in to zbrush and go for it.
you gonna leave him with a tshirt or go for the suit and tie look?

yu know if I was a hitman I would wear a leisure suit or something inconspicuous to avoid looking like I was a hitman:)

demoncage

Hey, thanks for all the crits/comments. i'll write more later, have to step out for a while.

here's what i have for the hand so far. there's little things i need to change but overall i'm likin' where it's at. feel free to point anything strange out. still coming across too thin? really can't say enough good shit about the new clay tools in zbrush, fucking awesome.

Flynny

Looking good demoncage, id definately go the less travelled route of not making him a sted head.

And Daz, i just literally finished watching sexy beast lol, damn wierd timing. Don MAKES that film

MoP

Hmm, those fingers are feeling very sausage-like at the moment, they look a bit like Wallace And Gromit hands than real hands. I think they're too thick at the ends, and the fingernails are the wrong shape.
You've got some great reference in front of you attached to the end of your arms, take a look at them from every angle and see what you can do to make the sculpt match them better in terms of overall shape

demoncage

i don't know if they're THAT off , but i agree they're a little tip heavy, need shape. i do try and use my own hands as reference but they're so bony that i was making a conscious effort to not go too thin. will post an update later.

Slum

The finger tips are certainly much too thick. I think your main problem is that the fingers here are the same size all the way through. In fact, the index finger's tip is wider than the middle part. The first knuckle should be the widest point, and the tips should taper a bit more than the rest. You can easily do this while still keeping the hands burly.

demoncage

yeah, i was going more for that working man's hand feel like depicted in your link, more organic, less idealized, though i agree with the general anatomical crits mentioned in terms of tapering the fingers and shaping them a bit.

demoncage

Daz, thanks for the feedback. i'll probably be going along the lines of the physique i have right now just because i committed more to that, but will probably play around with it a bit.

Okkun, thanks. i have some pants ref but could probably use some more, I'll let you know.

Ruz, you mean like this?:

Thurban

Paul Schafer?

Ruz

thats the feller demoncage. who would suspect him he he

demoncage

gave the face a bit more character and subbed in his (in-progress) man-hands. hopefully they give a little more weight to the torso. maybe need to scale them down a bit.

demoncage

know you guys are getting sick of these head updates and want to see the clothes but you're just going to have to wait. i decided to go thinner on him and gave the head a meaner look. kind of looking like micheal keaton now, unintentionally, but i'm going to change the hair to be longer and slicked back close to the head, more of a sleazy look. going to slim down the form a bit to match.

Joao Sapiro

he still looks unproportional on the legs and shoulders, looks too frail and thin even for someone thin , the head looks really good ! a tad too stretched but thats an easy fix, keep going !

demoncage

thanks for the crits, keep them coming

aesir

I think he'd look more tough and thuggish with a more square jaw, but thats largely opinion.

demoncage

yeah, i'm going for a different feel. anyways, got to run out of town for a couple days. almost there with the hand, but won't get back to it till sunday. will post again soon.

Joseph Silverman

I think the upper lip is way too flat, personally. I may be wrong, but it strikes me as a stylized feature, and incredibly out of place with the otherwise smooth/realistic features. There's still some arc out even on people with really thin/flat lips.

thnom

The face, now, kind of reminds me of a skinny-faced Val Kilmer.

Slash

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Seconded. And while you're at it get "dynamic figure drawing " as well from the same author. And since they practically give them away, get some bridgman too, like "constructive anatomy". amazon.com is your friend!

Austin

Looks slick, but I agree with these guys, get a Hogarth. I love my anatomy book so so much..

Pedro Amorim

god.. less text more pics.

Neox

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Seconded. And while you're at it get "dynamic figure drawing " as well from the same author. And since they practically give them away, get some bridgman too, like "constructive anatomy". amazon.com is your friend!

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can't agree, while Hogarths work is quite good to get a nice understanding of the muscleflow, i wouldn't reccomend his work in terms of form and structure, i needed quite a while to get his balloon muscles out of my work. There are defintely better anatomy books out there then the ones from hogarth. The ones by Gottfried Bammes for example, while Hogarths work is good to start with in anatomy, you should switch to better books when you go on with your studies.

demoncage

cool, thanks for the crits, hand renders coming soon.

demoncage

alright, update on the hand. i actually feel i went too thin this time on the fingers(knew i would) so need to beef them up a bit. otherwise, although not a masterpiece, i'm considering them passable for the sake of moving on. thanks to Mop and others for the initial push away from the frankenstein gloves. feel free to crit anything for future reference.

erik!

Hands have creases and wrinkles, especially in the palm. I see none on your model.

demoncage

saving that for nvidia filter

demoncage

chiming in with an update on this guy. decided to go after the underlying figure anatomy so i'd have more of a guide to drape the garments over. this is just a rough physique i've got going. going to beef up the torso more and work out proportional issues. want to actually give him a nice solid padding of fat. front of the torso will be zbrushed since it's exposed by the jacket. also the final head model minus hair. anyway, just wanted to show what i've been up to. some people like to wear dress shoes with a body stocking.

demoncage

final physique before exoporting torso to zbrush. went for a stouter feel. just want to make sure it looks natural enough. crits welcome.

demoncage

some first pass work on the body. got a little carried away with claytubes, but was fun at least.

Japhir

those knees look really nice! the head's great too!

Rhinokey

I own that book, and while its tips on laying out the general shapes of the hand, i always hated his detailing, why do all his knuckles look like asses?

Wells

judging by my own fingers, I think you've ignored the last joint on each finger, in position, length and detail.

i like his face

demoncage

sectaurs, thanks for the crit. the head and hands in the last render are just low detail sub-ins so i could work on the bod. still haven't looked into subtools too much yet. will check proportions on the hands

thanks japhir.

heh, rhinokey, that's true. but i think he just really exaggerates the forms that are actually there for the sake of readability and comprehension.

demoncage

threw in some foldage on the shirt. objective: finish jacket tonight.

demoncage

decided to go after the pants first. just about there, just need to tighten things up a bit, then onto the jacket finally.

Ruz

coming along nice man. creases are good in trousers

MoP

cloth folds and his shoes look really good, although his waist is almost unnaturally thin, especially since the curve of his stomach implies he's well built.
I'd definitely pull the beltline of the trousers out a bit right now, and don't make the tuck-in of the shirt quite so pronounced, then it'd look more natural.
if the rest turns out as well as this so far, it'll be a great character!

demoncage

Ruz, MoP, thanks.

MoP, i wanted to give him a bit of fat content, maybe i should hang that over the waist line a bit, huh? or would you still consider the waist line too thin?

penrod

I think the waist would still be too thin. a little wider on the waist and have most of the love handles weight towards the bottom and it should be closer. great progress on the model, its turning out awesome

PixelGoat

The folds on the pants look awesome. oh and the waist do look a bit thin hehe I'm the human echo!

demoncage

thanks for the encouraging words guys. some more fold candy. widened the waist a bit and gave the gut a little more gravity. subbed in my original head model since i felt it had tons more legitimacy/character. also, i know it probably looks dumb, but included some shots of the final underlying anatomy before i started on the pants. went lighter on the legs as originally intended, thought they turned out well enough to show. thanks for looking.