BF2142 Now with Spyware?
polycounter lvl 18
Taken from the post on Digg
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So. In the latest CGW podcast, they received retail boxed copies of BF 2142.
When you open the box, a big slip of paper falls out first, preceeding any discs or manuals. The slip of paper says, essentially, that 2142 includes monitoring software which runs while your computer is online, and records "anonymous" information like your IP address, surfing habits (probably via cookie scans), and other "computing habits" in order to report this information back to ad companies and ad servers, which generates in-game ads.
Now, I can live with certain in-game ads (though apparently there will be Dodge truck and Neon ads in the bleak, futuristic world of 2142), but including a lengthy description - outside of even the Eula - seems to indicate even EA knows that this is some shady borderline spyware shit. I don't support it and won't be buying 2142 (for a host of other reasons, too).
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And an image of the sheet: http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7315/igavy2.jpg
Not that I was planning on getting this game since I haven't heard much good about it, but I'll definitely be avoiding this game now. If they are going to be upfront about the included spyware, they should include it on the outside cover so you know up front. Not after the game is unreturnable.
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So. In the latest CGW podcast, they received retail boxed copies of BF 2142.
When you open the box, a big slip of paper falls out first, preceeding any discs or manuals. The slip of paper says, essentially, that 2142 includes monitoring software which runs while your computer is online, and records "anonymous" information like your IP address, surfing habits (probably via cookie scans), and other "computing habits" in order to report this information back to ad companies and ad servers, which generates in-game ads.
Now, I can live with certain in-game ads (though apparently there will be Dodge truck and Neon ads in the bleak, futuristic world of 2142), but including a lengthy description - outside of even the Eula - seems to indicate even EA knows that this is some shady borderline spyware shit. I don't support it and won't be buying 2142 (for a host of other reasons, too).
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And an image of the sheet: http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7315/igavy2.jpg
Not that I was planning on getting this game since I haven't heard much good about it, but I'll definitely be avoiding this game now. If they are going to be upfront about the included spyware, they should include it on the outside cover so you know up front. Not after the game is unreturnable.
Replies
ETQW : 2
BF2142 : 0
they're not even reducing the price of the product with this in.
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You mean they are delivering to us a fantastic next generation experience at a mere $50 by allowing ad revenue to supplement the massive development costs. Otherwise, we would have to pay a whopping $60 or possibly $70 instead.
I was excited for BF2142 for a short time. But then I realized it is built ontop of BF2, and still lacks things like widescreen support and a team capable of responding to critical bugs in a decent timeframe. I think instead, I'll just dig out Tribes 2 and play it again.
This just adds to my list why I'm sticking with BF2.
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really? i bought bf2 and have been disappointed since. i love the game but it is just too darn buggy to be enjoyable for me.
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they're not even reducing the price of the product with this in.
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You mean they are delivering to us a fantastic next generation experience at a mere $50 by allowing ad revenue to supplement the massive development costs. Otherwise, we would have to pay a whopping $60 or possibly $70 instead.
I was excited for BF2142 for a short time. But then I realized it is built ontop of BF2, and still lacks things like widescreen support and a team capable of responding to critical bugs in a decent timeframe. I think instead, I'll just dig out Tribes 2 and play it again.
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Are you retarded? BF2142 is nothing more than BF2 with a few new art assets, and robots. Is the exact same engine, probablly the same gameplay as the last. How is it any more "next gen" than bf2?
[edit] doh maybe i should read all of the post before i reply. I assume you're being sarcastic here? =D
I think instead, I'll just dig out Tribes 2 and play it again.
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I think you are the first person here that I've seen reference Tribes 2. My online gaming is basically consumed by the Tribes series (Tribes 2 mainly these days). I one of the devs for the TAC (Team Aerial Combat) mod. We play every Friday night in case you get interested in matching up with us some time
Because I'm a Tribes fan, I was also a bit interested in this new BF. Tribes Vengeance fell short on the things that made the Tribes series great, so we've been lacking anything new to transfer our mod to. Now I'm helping to develop Ascension, which is being created by the RenWerx group. Currently we plan to piggyback our mod onto that.
http://www.warrock.net
free, online BF lookalike
And yeah, tribes rocks. Seems to be one of those awesome games that didn't get all the credit it deserved.
By the time you find out, you have opened the box and can't take it back so its a double screw you to customers.
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Class action lawsuit.
Obviously with this 'addendum' being *inside* the case it means you can't take it back as you break the seal to look at the warning! (Is there a warning about the warning on the *outside* of the packaging?
Read the facts. That was a horrible little surprise they added in the box, but its mostly legal mumbo jumbo. The facts are; they record your IP to get you the correct language and content ads for your location. They also record the viewing statistics of the actual ads, because you cant sell advertising space with out telling the client how much the ads get seen.
1) Its not anonymous if you record my IP address.
2) What other info?
3) "Other info" is defined by EA, which doesn't define what "other info" is, so when pressed in court they can make up whatever they need it to be.
4) Where can I go to know exactly what files they are taking off my computer and what that info contains?
Calling it "and other anonymous data" doesn't make me warm and fuzzy toward the idea. Had it been worded something like;
"The program will only be collecting your general location to ensure you receive appropriate ads for your area. It will also collect the amount of times a specific in game ad is viewed during play. NO OTHER DATA WILL BE COLLECTED, STORED, TRANSPORTED OR OTHERWISE SAUGHT."
I think they left it vauge so they could broaden the kind of data they collect if they need to.
I dont trust EA with that kind access to my computer. Whos to say someone cant design a mod that mines more data? Better yet they can parade the mod around as an anti-EA spyware patch. Thanks EA for laying the ground work for script kiddies, could you make it easier for them?
What did they expect to happen with a flyer like that? They might have had better results with a flyer that said "ANTHRAX inside breath deeply!". Being vauge about something people are so twitchy about is not a good way to kick off a new idea.
I support the idea of in game ads, as long as they don't disrupt game play. I guess I need to add also as long as they don't mine data while I play.
"Information collected will vary depending upon the activity and may include your name, e-mail address, phone number, mobile number, home address, birth date and credit card information. In addition, we may collect demographic information such as gender, zip code, information about your computer, hardware, software, platform, media, Internet IP address and connection, information about online activity such as feature usage, game play statistics and scores, user rankings and click paths and other data that you may provide in surveys or online profiles, for instance. We may combine demographic information with personal information."
Doesn't look like mumbo jumbo to me.
I was just saying that in order for dynamic ingame ads to function they need to collect some data from you. Im sure every other game that uses them will do the same. As for the rest (legal mumbo jumbo), I was just speculating that it was primarily legal protection. If you want to believe that EA is going to watch everything you do and report back to the mother ship then go nuts. Good point though on the possibilities of exploits. I never thought much about that.
I know a lot of people who play bf2 have already willfully given EA all their personal info and credit card # to use ea downloader. It is getting pretty scary though. Online games are becoming more and more of a 2 way street. If I just think about it, Ive given info to Valve, EA, Xbox live, and countless websites. They may not know every detail, but they know what and how often I spend my money on. Now they will know what ads I look at and for how long.
You realize that most mods use DLLs which are not sandboxed and could already contain all kinds of viruses?
You realize that most mods use DLLs which are not sandboxed and could already contain all kinds of viruses?
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This is where "Quake/Quake3/UnrealEngineX ftw" comes in.
game VMs > windows dll
I can't understand what the big deal is... i won't buy the game anyway
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Posting on behalf of the Dev Team
Greetings,
We would like to provide more information on in-game advertising in Battlefield 2142. To try and help everyone better understand it, here is how it works.
The in- game advertisement is respectful of players' privacy: it never accesses files not directly related to the game, and it does not capture personal data such as cookies, account login detail, game play behavior or surfing history. As it is an integrated part of Battlefield 2142 and not a separate program, it only runs when the game is running.
Because BF2142 delivers ads by region, the IP address of the player is used to determine the region of the player and helps serve ads by region and language; for instance, a player in Paris will be presented with ads in French. Note that this IP address is not stored on the advertisement server and is not repurposed for other uses.
A unique ID number is anonymously assigned the first time the player joins a Battlefield 2142 online game. It is stored locally on the PC but is not linked to any personal details.
The in-game advertisement gathers what we call impression data, such as location of the billboard in the game or duration of advertisement impression. It
helps see how many people have seen an ad but not who has seen it.
We are also conscious that the advertisement shouldnt distract the player from the overall gaming experience, so all ads fit in the unique environment of each level in the game. The content of the ads is also controlled to ensure that no offensive content is displayed in Battlefield 2142.
We all hope that this explanation will address recent concerns on the advertisement in Battlefield 2142.
See you on the Battlefield.
Your Dice Live Team
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I do have to applaud the Dev Team for coming up with the proper response, and quickly too. Too bad this couldn't have been on the slip of paper instead of some vague legaleese threat about spyware. I think everyones knee jerk reaction to it could have been laid to waste if they had just shared this info up front.
I am still a little worried about a game that is so open to modding it will be easily changed to something malicious, much eaiser than past games. The thing that freaks me out the most is that my mortgage payment could bounce or my credit rating could suddenly drop by 500 points. The next thing I know I've applied for 30 loans in 10 states and I'm wanted in florida for murder. Hey I've seen The Net 2.0 it happens!
Anyway, it is not like there have to be ads in games. that is simply contrary to reality. Most games don't have any ads in them and I don't see why it shouldn't be like that in the future. If people boycott this game it will be a long time before they try this shit again.
Well, its nice to think about.
Now the big point, what does it say about mods? Will they be required to have these in their own without seeing any revenue also?
Boycotting doesn't really do much for a company the size of EA. They will just attribute the failure to the wrong reasons. By filling the retailers return carts with perfectly fine discs and return slips noting the ads being the reason for return, they might notice.
I'm not against ads in games in all cases. But when the game still costs $50, and cost less to make since it is built on top of the BF2 engine, that irritates me. Add to that the typical EA "buy them and close 'em" that happened with Dice/Canada, and well it really justifies this return policy.
is the game fun?
*shrug*
does it still cost 50 bucks?
is the game fun?
*shrug*
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Yes and yes. No one is stealing anyone's money. It's an incredibly fun game (in my opinion of course) and it doesn't bother me that people want to see if putting an ad in a game is worth the amount of money they spend on said ad by tracking if I even look at it.
does it still cost 50 bucks?
is the game fun?
*shrug*
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I don't get why people keep excusing it with responses like this. Would you ask the same if the box had a magic gnome that humps you in the ass as soon as you install the game? Hey, the game is still fun... I guess I can learn to ignore the gnome in my ass.
I just came back from a Best Buy where I returned my opened copy.
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I am going to try to give back my copy today, too. I don't want to support this kind of shit.
I just came back from a Best Buy where I returned my opened copy. At first the two reps at the customer service desk refused to return it, but I pushed and eventually got them to summon the store manager. He came over, and actually read the notice. After that, he expressed his own disgust over this, refunded my money, then grabbed a plastic frame to put the notice in along with the front of the game manual. That plastic display is now at eye level right where all their boxed copies of the game are, so that other people will be made aware of this.
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I missed this reply somehow... good the hear that SOMEONE at Best Buy is doing some intelligent work there. Years back I returned software to Best Buy and they refused to take it, leaving me yelling at people at the customer service. Of course they stuck to their guns and refused a refund. The software I bought had limited use, but didn't state it anywhere on the box. I didn't find out until I installed the software and it popped up a message to inform me of this 'feature'.
It's been known for a long time that the game has dynamic ads. If you didn't know that, I guess it's bad that it's not written on the box, but is it really that big of a deal? I don't like it, but it's not going to prevent me from buying the game.
notman, that's the dumbest analogy I've ever heard. How exactly is an ass-fucking magic gnome like a billboard? Isn't a billboard in a game more like, say, a billboard in real life? As opposed to, hmm, ass-rape?
I don't have any problem with it. I just wont pay a dime for it. If they want to give it to me for free, like other ad supported media, I am fine with that.
Cable TV is getting pretty damn annoying with its advertising. The price keeps going up too, I get to pay to see more advertising WOOT! The kind of ads and the frequency is horrible. The ads that take up the bottom of the screen DURRING the program are so annoying its has made me turn off the TV on a few ocasions. It's not enough to annoy a viewer to death with comercial breaks every 3-5min but to play animated comercials durring the program really is distracting and annoying. All it make me do is turn off the TV and go play a game and wait for the boxed DVD to come out. Yes, Lost, I'm talkin about you...
Maybe you didn't read what I wrote. This is an advertising research program disguised as an ad delivery system disguised as a game. You can bet that EA is going to be making a shit load more off of the data they will sell about your behavior in games then off the ad space.
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So, you're one of the people who chooses to not believe what DICE has to say. Alright, there's no arguing with you, then. You're right, they might be lying. However, there's no evidence that they are. In fact, everything anyone from DICE, EA, or IGA has said contradicts your assertion that they're collecting demographic information.
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I don't have any problem with it. I just wont pay a dime for it. If they want to give it to me for free, like other ad supported media, I am fine with that.
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http://www.brandchannel.com/brandcameo_films.asp
Most big budget movies have product placement and are definitely not free. So, you'll be not seeing any movies ever again then, eh?
So, you're one of the people who chooses to not believe what DICE has to say. Alright, there's no arguing with you, then. You're right, they might be lying. However, there's no evidence that they are. In fact, everything anyone from DICE, EA, or IGA has said contradicts your assertion that they're collecting demographic information.
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Um...no? They are not collecting demographic information. They are collecting BEHAVIOR information.
I don't watch very many movies these days. When I do notice product placement it pisses me off. I didn't go to I Robot to see a fucking 30 sec Converse comercial in the middle of it.
Product placement can be over done and you should call it when you see it. Proper product placement should blend right in. I'm almost interested in seeing how well EA did or didn't do, but not curious enough to buy the game and support a bad habbit.