Oh yeah it's far from being finished indeed... These are the rough maps from the baking, but I plan to play with added details, especially on the lower back and stomch -see page 2-.
Got a problem with max this morning, it wouldn't let me the highpoly head as .ase, but it worked fine when trying .obj... Strange. A known memory limitation maybe? Any idea? It's a bit annoying as I need that to render the Doom3 normals
How did you get all those sharp edges in zbrush, especially the boots?
You can use the full highpoly(million plus) for normal map generation, it just takes more work.
I haven't tried the xNormal program yet, but it looks promising for normal map generation. Don't know if it can handle the high poly count.
Nvidia Melody doesn't like millions of poly. I couldn't get it to load a model.
Ati Normal mapper has no problem generating normal maps from super high poly models, since it is a command line program. Was able to generate a normal map from a 3 million poly model. There are some issues when using it though. It requires its own model format. Theres an exporter for max so that solves the low poly model. Zbrush exports to obj, so what I do is use the highpoly obj and convert it to the ati format using a program called "3D Object Converter". Now the problem is aligning the models to each other, which is a major problem since until now I have no clue how Zbrush really exports objs. I've had to fidget alignment/scaling to make the models line up. Someone made a version of the Ati mapper that uses obj but i've never gotten it to work for me. Don't forget to flip the green channel in PS if you're using the Ati mapper.
Or you could simply get more RAM. I think the limiting factor of getting the high poly models in is a lack of ram. God, I soooo need more RAM.
Pior, if you make sure your ZBrush and Max meshes are aligned correctly (check by exporting a medium-detail from zbrush and bring it into Max), then you can bring the ultra-high-res ZBrush mesh into xNormal along with the lowpolys from Max, and bake that way - it produces nice normalmaps which work great in Doom3, and you don't have to deal with exporting to ASE at all.
also, one trick to use to get it into max without crashing:
Make a new layer, set it to the default layer, HIDE that layer, then import the zbrush object. It will import to the hidden layer, and it won't try to view it, BUT it will be selected! So you can convert to edit poly, add all faces to one smoothing group (use a smooth modifier) and then collapse, right click on properties and "display as a box". I've brought in an 8 million poly model that way before as a single obj. Mind you I have a decent laptop machine, but still, should work on most pc's.
[ QUOTE ]
The GS is a buget card, thats why dude. Its cheap for a reason. It scored so bad in some mags that they had to put a "N/A" onthe frame rate, even in games like NFS:MW.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have any idea what you are really talking about? The 6800GS got very high marks. Especially when overclocked.
Just from one of many reviews of the card -
"The 6800 GS doesn't quite match up with the 6800 GT in terms of pixel fill rate, but that number isn't that important in today's games, which require increasing amounts of shading and texturing power per pixel. The 6800 GS has slightly more vertex processing power, slightly better pixel shading and texturing power, and exactly the same amount of memory bandwidth as the GeForce 6800 GT. Functionally, they're practically twins."
I agree, the hips looks strange now. The butt looks saggy, and I really dont care for the boots being that large with so little detail in them. They feel like they need more to break up the empty space.
Also what happened to the hardware xray normals?
Looks excellent chest up. Captures the character perfectly.
I initially thought the hips were pretty weird but now I think the proportions seem a refreshing change. Given his track record I'm sure the boots and everything else will turn out super secksy!
Right on, everything rendered now. For some reason the max ase export issue was caused by some layer exeption, with everything merged down it exported just fine. Also, the reason why I couldn't do everything in Zbrush and had to use max is that I needed exported ase to use with the renderbump commandline renderer inside Doom3. I doubt that Zmapper has a preset that works the way Doom normals do...
Good call on the proportions. I didn't really notice at first, but I think it comes from the 'averaged' low poly built around the hipoly sources. I will tweak that later as I will need to make him fit to the existing Quake4 skeleton.
Anyways! More of the sort of hip, cybernetic vampire.
Careful not to go too dark with the flesh tones on his face
Keep saturation in the shadows but i think atm you're maybe going too dark with the diffuse than is good for the normalmaps.
The codpiece is seeming a tad eye-catching right now, although I'm sure if you keep the diffuse contrast there nice and low, it'll fit in better.
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that Zmapper has a preset that works the way Doom normals do...
[/ QUOTE ]
I may be missing something here, but i thought that doom3 normal maps are just standard normal maps with a flipped green channel? There is an option in zmapper to invert the green channel, so i dont see why you cant use this?
Btw, stellar work! This really IS patriot in new clothes. I need to get back to my slash model, you've inspired me!
Slash, I'll upload some exemple later this week, but yeah there is indeed a clear visual difference. I'm sure that doom3 could handle both, but the default shader definately calls a specific type of normalmaps.
I think I also forgot to mention that all the screenshots shown are straight from the realtime viewer.
Anyways! I will definately get rid of the womanly hips in the long run. And the codpiece... well, he's a vampire after all.
Trying to get some contrast between a knight kind of lower part, and the gorey/technical upper. The belt separation needs some work, especially on the back.
Finding an alternative to the original brickwall texture was tough too. Croco pants anyone?
I really like the contrast and the composition of the texture so far. The one thing that stands out to me would be the technical bits in the normal map. Specifically, on the elbow and the bits radiating from the spine. The plates on the elbow suggest a flexible metal alloy. I'm not sure if that's what you're going for, personally I get the feeling that the parts just don't fit the joint. The bits radiating from the spine are a little more noticeable. They feel very flat and seem like arbitrary texture.
I'm really liking the direction you're taking with the character, and I really do anticipate each update you show. Don't take it personally, but atleast in the areas that I mentioned, I know that you can do better work and I've somewhat come to expect it from you. Still, I totally understand it's WIP, I'd love to see where you take it.
man those boots are kicking some serious ass...and even though I already told you on msn, I realy love your take on that one, can't wait to see more my friend and to playtest
I've not checked back in some time, textures are certainly lookin awesome, I like how you've given him a different spin, kinda reminds me of Vampire: Bloodlines
I hope you go and make the metal specular maps to give more funky colour variation. I Also think the metal back piece could do with blending into the flesh with some gore and whatnot but since you haven't even started on the flesh yet, I'm lookin forward to seeing where you go with this.
Still the wee little things to add, like dried blood on the metals, fingernails aso. The Doom3 engine is a bitch for skintones... Hopefully cadaver tones are easier to get that healthy pinks
Anyone can help me about the original tattoo? I would like to get my hands on a higher resolution version of these two Kanjis but don't know where and how to search...
Haha you are right about the mirroring Toomas! I was checking out some symbols out of Batang and realised that I ended up using two random signs for now, but I'm still very curious about the originals, and the meaning if any. Couldn't open your second link tho.
Yes Dizzy it's Doom3. Most of the shots shown in the thread are taken in DerTon's MD5 viewer, yet to make things clear I just made more screens from the actual game :
I ultimately want to put it in Q4, but I am 99% sure it will look just the same. I think Q4 actually has a bit more ambiant than D3, wich can be a good thing.
Hey Slash, sorry for the late reply. This is what I mean about the Doom3 normals :
I used the default command used in the original D3 material files to generate the map. Maybe the doom engine can read the maxstyle "type" with a custom shader? But anyways I'm sticking to the defaults.
Bah, I keep on procrastinating the final touches, tss tss.
[ QUOTE ]
I ended up using two random signs for now, but I'm still very curious about the originals, and the meaning if any. Couldn't open your second link tho.
[/ QUOTE ]
Weird, i can open the link on 2 computers and counting.
Anyways the second kanji is:
"KAN
Chinese, fellow
JLPT Level 3
Jouyou Kanji, Kyouiku Grade 3"
I would guess that the tattoo has a real meaning (well kanji always means something)
And i was thinking it would be kinda cool if you did the tattoo in french
yeah i was going to say the butt looks saggy and the hips too wide and the legs too far apart from each other at the pelvis. also the eye sockets look very large and strange. if he took his goggles off how would he look? i expect the skin would be distorted slightly from having the goggles shoved into the flesh but here it looks like the muscle and bone is distorted too.
about the normals being different in 3dsmax and other programs. i'm wondering if it has to do with weighting based on how big the self angle of a triangle is at a vertex. i recently recoded my engine to use that system thanks to a clue from someone. i have not tested how it works with 3dsmax normals maps yet but at least it helped me know there are slightly different ways of calculating normals and tangents at vertices. maybe this is what is causing the problem for everbody.
and btw pior i'm you are making this for quake4 which is a doom3 engine game which means it is lacking gloss mapping.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I ended up using two random signs for now, but I'm still very curious about the originals, and the meaning if any. Couldn't open your second link tho.
[/ QUOTE ]
Weird, i can open the link on 2 computers and counting.
Anyways the second kanji is:
"KAN
Chinese, fellow
JLPT Level 3
Jouyou Kanji, Kyouiku Grade 3"
I would guess that the tattoo has a real meaning (well kanji always means something)
And i was thinking it would be kinda cool if you did the tattoo in french
[ QUOTE ]
Well if the second one means 'fellow', wouldn't anything before it mean something, ie.
Mean Fellow
Odd Fellow
Fellow meaning 'man or boy'. The proper version of 'fella'. The first word or Kanji will make it mean something.
[/ QUOTE ]
Somewhat like that only that combining kanji can change the meaning completely and there are ~6000 characters and thats IF its japanese, it can be chinese too in that case there are ~20 000 characters
Yeah, a coworker just gave me the Kanji meanings. First one is 'Crazy', like in , crazy about an unsuccessful love or also, crazy as in perv. It depends if its chinese or japanese. And the other one is indeed, man.
So Patriot has Crazy Man tattooed on is arm. How cool is that!
Jack, no swirls... It only appears in Kenneth Scott's texture sheet and in non-realtime renders of the Q3 character. The ingame version has a very shiney shader applied to the goggles.
Vipr, as said earlier I will make all these little model adjusts with a fresh eye once the texturing is done. All valid crits tho, I need to keep that in mind before rushing to the export
On gloss maps... I am still very interested in that, but as we talked earlier it is not the only thing that is missing to get a realistic looking skintone. Cubemaps lighting, light/shadow terminator control, god knows what... I don't really know where to find all that atm. Hence I stick to that one engine that has a fairly decent documentation on getting a playable character in game. I already did it once and the process was rather userfriendly. I don't really want to bother with any other engine until UT2007 comes out, really...
[edit]
Oh btw I think you are right about the different normal looks, we discussed this in an earlier thread and someone in the know (per128 I BET!) stated just that. It seems more accurate a calculation... yet I still have to see a difference in volume rendering between a doom3 shot and a UT2007 shot, even if they are using the two different systems... but then again, each engine does its own thing I guess.
BAH! Its still gay-rainbow-kirby-skyblue textures in the long run.
That´s so awesome pior!
I love the details on the metal...makes me think of those old decors they had on revolvers.
And the flesh looks tight!
Hope to download it soon.
btw Are you planning to port some of the other skins of the original model to yours like the ID Guy or the red and blue teamskins?
Replies
Got a problem with max this morning, it wouldn't let me the highpoly head as .ase, but it worked fine when trying .obj... Strange. A known memory limitation maybe? Any idea? It's a bit annoying as I need that to render the Doom3 normals
How did you get all those sharp edges in zbrush, especially the boots?
You can use the full highpoly(million plus) for normal map generation, it just takes more work.
I haven't tried the xNormal program yet, but it looks promising for normal map generation. Don't know if it can handle the high poly count.
Nvidia Melody doesn't like millions of poly. I couldn't get it to load a model.
Ati Normal mapper has no problem generating normal maps from super high poly models, since it is a command line program. Was able to generate a normal map from a 3 million poly model. There are some issues when using it though. It requires its own model format. Theres an exporter for max so that solves the low poly model. Zbrush exports to obj, so what I do is use the highpoly obj and convert it to the ati format using a program called "3D Object Converter". Now the problem is aligning the models to each other, which is a major problem since until now I have no clue how Zbrush really exports objs. I've had to fidget alignment/scaling to make the models line up. Someone made a version of the Ati mapper that uses obj but i've never gotten it to work for me. Don't forget to flip the green channel in PS if you're using the Ati mapper.
Or you could simply get more RAM. I think the limiting factor of getting the high poly models in is a lack of ram. God, I soooo need more RAM.
Make a new layer, set it to the default layer, HIDE that layer, then import the zbrush object. It will import to the hidden layer, and it won't try to view it, BUT it will be selected! So you can convert to edit poly, add all faces to one smoothing group (use a smooth modifier) and then collapse, right click on properties and "display as a box". I've brought in an 8 million poly model that way before as a single obj. Mind you I have a decent laptop machine, but still, should work on most pc's.
The GS is a buget card, thats why dude. Its cheap for a reason. It scored so bad in some mags that they had to put a "N/A" onthe frame rate, even in games like NFS:MW.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have any idea what you are really talking about? The 6800GS got very high marks. Especially when overclocked.
Just from one of many reviews of the card -
"The 6800 GS doesn't quite match up with the 6800 GT in terms of pixel fill rate, but that number isn't that important in today's games, which require increasing amounts of shading and texturing power per pixel. The 6800 GS has slightly more vertex processing power, slightly better pixel shading and texturing power, and exactly the same amount of memory bandwidth as the GeForce 6800 GT. Functionally, they're practically twins."
But, you miss the point.
and for the hips.. these overdrawn proportions working great, so i wouldn´t change them
but there are some edges on the lowpoly where i´m not sure why you not killing them?!
and hey.. why are your hiding the left arm?
btw. mop/poop.. thx for the tips!
Also what happened to the hardware xray normals?
Looks excellent chest up. Captures the character perfectly.
Good call on the proportions. I didn't really notice at first, but I think it comes from the 'averaged' low poly built around the hipoly sources. I will tweak that later as I will need to make him fit to the existing Quake4 skeleton.
Anyways! More of the sort of hip, cybernetic vampire.
Keep saturation in the shadows but i think atm you're maybe going too dark with the diffuse than is good for the normalmaps.
The codpiece is seeming a tad eye-catching right now, although I'm sure if you keep the diffuse contrast there nice and low, it'll fit in better.
Shaping up very nicely though
I doubt that Zmapper has a preset that works the way Doom normals do...
[/ QUOTE ]
I may be missing something here, but i thought that doom3 normal maps are just standard normal maps with a flipped green channel? There is an option in zmapper to invert the green channel, so i dont see why you cant use this?
Btw, stellar work! This really IS patriot in new clothes. I need to get back to my slash model, you've inspired me!
I think I also forgot to mention that all the screenshots shown are straight from the realtime viewer.
Anyways! I will definately get rid of the womanly hips in the long run. And the codpiece... well, he's a vampire after all.
Trying to get some contrast between a knight kind of lower part, and the gorey/technical upper. The belt separation needs some work, especially on the back.
Finding an alternative to the original brickwall texture was tough too. Croco pants anyone?
agreed ! but i thik that the pattern in the trousers is a bit distracting .
[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like crocodile leather to me, looks great pior. GO FRENCHIE, we'll beat you this tueday at 6.00 pm, hahaha
PS: I know u can do a better job with his face :P
I'm really liking the direction you're taking with the character, and I really do anticipate each update you show. Don't take it personally, but atleast in the areas that I mentioned, I know that you can do better work and I've somewhat come to expect it from you.
I hope you go and make the metal specular maps to give more funky colour variation. I Also think the metal back piece could do with blending into the flesh with some gore and whatnot but since you haven't even started on the flesh yet, I'm lookin forward to seeing where you go with this.
Still the wee little things to add, like dried blood on the metals, fingernails aso. The Doom3 engine is a bitch for skintones... Hopefully cadaver tones are easier to get that healthy pinks
Anyone can help me about the original tattoo? I would like to get my hands on a higher resolution version of these two Kanjis but don't know where and how to search...
Your "cyber cowboy" is realy white one,...
Is the rendering under DOOM 3 ?
Your "cyber cowboy" is realy white one,...
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's Quake4, specifically. The (excellent, pior) model is a remake of Quake 3's Patriot.
http://www.kanjisite.com/
The tattoo is mirrored imho, because if it is then the second kanji is
http://www.kanjisite.com/html/start/rhsinfo/r_kanchinese.html
Yes Dizzy it's Doom3. Most of the shots shown in the thread are taken in DerTon's MD5 viewer, yet to make things clear I just made more screens from the actual game :
I ultimately want to put it in Q4, but I am 99% sure it will look just the same. I think Q4 actually has a bit more ambiant than D3, wich can be a good thing.
Hey Slash, sorry for the late reply. This is what I mean about the Doom3 normals :
I used the default command used in the original D3 material files to generate the map. Maybe the doom engine can read the maxstyle "type" with a custom shader? But anyways I'm sticking to the defaults.
Bah, I keep on procrastinating the final touches, tss tss.
Are you going to add the swirls to his goggles?
http://www.earthli.com/quake/images/warriors/p_patriot.jpg
I ended up using two random signs for now, but I'm still very curious about the originals, and the meaning if any. Couldn't open your second link tho.
[/ QUOTE ]
Weird, i can open the link on 2 computers and counting.
Anyways the second kanji is:
"KAN
Chinese, fellow
JLPT Level 3
Jouyou Kanji, Kyouiku Grade 3"
I would guess that the tattoo has a real meaning (well kanji always means something)
And i was thinking it would be kinda cool if you did the tattoo in french
edit:
Still cant find the first kanji.
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/kanji/kanji/dictionaryframe.htm
List of 1000 kanji.
about the normals being different in 3dsmax and other programs. i'm wondering if it has to do with weighting based on how big the self angle of a triangle is at a vertex. i recently recoded my engine to use that system thanks to a clue from someone. i have not tested how it works with 3dsmax normals maps yet but at least it helped me know there are slightly different ways of calculating normals and tangents at vertices. maybe this is what is causing the problem for everbody.
and btw pior i'm
[ QUOTE ]
I ended up using two random signs for now, but I'm still very curious about the originals, and the meaning if any. Couldn't open your second link tho.
[/ QUOTE ]
Weird, i can open the link on 2 computers and counting.
Anyways the second kanji is:
"KAN
Chinese, fellow
JLPT Level 3
Jouyou Kanji, Kyouiku Grade 3"
I would guess that the tattoo has a real meaning (well kanji always means something)
And i was thinking it would be kinda cool if you did the tattoo in french
edit:
Still cant find the first kanji.
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/kanji/kanji/dictionaryframe.htm
List of 1000 kanji.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well if the second one means 'fellow', wouldn't anything before it mean something, ie.
Mean Fellow
Odd Fellow
Fellow meaning 'man or boy'. The proper version of 'fella'. The first word or Kanji will make it mean something.
Well if the second one means 'fellow', wouldn't anything before it mean something, ie.
Mean Fellow
Odd Fellow
Fellow meaning 'man or boy'. The proper version of 'fella'. The first word or Kanji will make it mean something.
[/ QUOTE ]
Somewhat like that only that combining kanji can change the meaning completely and there are ~6000 characters and thats IF its japanese, it can be chinese too in that case there are ~20 000 characters
Pior sorry for the OT's in your thread.
So Patriot has Crazy Man tattooed on is arm. How cool is that!
Jack, no swirls... It only appears in Kenneth Scott's texture sheet and in non-realtime renders of the Q3 character. The ingame version has a very shiney shader applied to the goggles.
Vipr, as said earlier I will make all these little model adjusts with a fresh eye once the texturing is done. All valid crits tho, I need to keep that in mind before rushing to the export
On gloss maps... I am still very interested in that, but as we talked earlier it is not the only thing that is missing to get a realistic looking skintone. Cubemaps lighting, light/shadow terminator control, god knows what... I don't really know where to find all that atm. Hence I stick to that one engine that has a fairly decent documentation on getting a playable character in game. I already did it once and the process was rather userfriendly. I don't really want to bother with any other engine until UT2007 comes out, really...
[edit]
Oh btw I think you are right about the different normal looks, we discussed this in an earlier thread and someone in the know (per128 I BET!) stated just that. It seems more accurate a calculation... yet I still have to see a difference in volume rendering between a doom3 shot and a UT2007 shot, even if they are using the two different systems... but then again, each engine does its own thing I guess.
BAH! Its still gay-rainbow-kirby-skyblue textures in the long run.
And we all know that Slash kicks everyone's ass, even patriot!
I love the details on the metal...makes me think of those old decors they had on revolvers.
And the flesh looks tight!
Hope to download it soon.
btw Are you planning to port some of the other skins of the original model to yours like the ID Guy or the red and blue teamskins?
Elaborated on the "crazy man" tattoo a little ...
... and added spurs to the boots :P
Getting closer!
I already told you on msn but I love it mate, really top notch stuff