Yah, Kendo is right, the Zgrabber tool can be used to do that. I originally did it the other way around tho : ie assign a black to white gradient on the side of the mesh in max, printscreen, and use as an alpha in Zbrush. I guess it's a little less precise (8bit greyscale instead of 16bit if Zgrabbed inside Zbrush) but it does the trick, and you can edit the printscreen in photoshop which is always nice. But hey Kendo thanks to your post I now remember how to use Zgrab, I completely forgot about that
Did some more work on the techy bits. I plan to render different normalaps in order to composite them at will on the final texture.
That detail pass was made with... Xrays! I used xray shots of computer parts and imported them as projected heightmaps to build up detail. That's a MS mouse on the shoulder blade I'm also using handmade alphas for that. This will go between/underneath the spine bones aso.
An this is done with Meat's fan-favorite wire technique. Handy to build up armor plates fast. I will use that on the biceps, glasses, and maybe as a soft layer of tech under the skin.
wow Pior, you never cease to impress me with the profressional way you approach your work! I think when you finish him, I might feel shamed enough to go back and remake a quake character like I planned.
Good stuff!
Update! Highpoly is done, yet I couldn't import my final Zbrushed one in max because of too high a polycount. I will most likely end up handpainting the normals to get a sharper results then.
Edit: You could make a copy of your Zbrush tool, delete all of the lower subdivisions so that only the highest one remains, then turn on "Add" in the Import rollout of the Tool menu, and import your subdivided 3dsmax geometry... then you'll have a preview of the whole thing, and you can also use that with ZMapper to render a normalmap.
You could try xNormal instead and import the next lower subd version into max for the low poly base. Just a thought, not sure how high xNormal poly-limit is compared to max.
The model is looking spetacular as usual. I have always loved your attention to proper hard edges your models' musculature.
why not just mask off peice by peice what you need and export little by little until you have the entire normal map? that way the only Photoshop clean up you would need to do is combining them all into one.
That, or get XSI :P
Well, the model is actually broken into pieces (head, torso, legs), my issue is that, when I import, say, the superhigh head or torso, Max will just crash when I try to convert to edit poly because of a lack of RAM That, and the resulting ASE are gonna be HUGE when loaded into Doom3 to run the renderbump commandline.
But yeah Retleks, I will definatly export little by little.
I am actually looking forward editing them in photoshop. You can get decent good handpainted effects that enhances the sharpness of the normalmap, to give it a kind of oldschool Q3 look... Crazy smudges work too :
if you went to all the trouble of making a high poly for a normal map but can't bake it because it's too high poly to use in max, I suggest you try out zmapper. It's a normal map generation plugin for zbrush, and I've found it works far better than the normal mapping tools included with max or maya. There's a simple tutorial vid on the site which explains how it works... it's suuuper simple and the normal maps it generates tend to need far less cleanup than those made in max or maya (in my limited experience with all 3, that is)
wow, I was wonderin not long ago if you were ever gonna get that finished and after a while of not checkin, here you go impressin the hell outta everyone.
Love the fleshy rott/scar details :]
I just noticed on the far right pic, there seems to be a seam going straight down the side of his head? Seems an odd place for a texture seam, so i doubt you have done it there (Unless your going the Quake 3 way, i.e. mirror the head UV's but give him a 100% UV'ed front face).
I think that's what he's doing, so that he could make the face a bit less symetrical, as far as the "lowpolyness" th point is to make it for quake 4 MP so too many polies won't work ( the game is already slow enough like this)
hawt stuff my piorou, as usual, really makes me want to give him a lill' arena friend.
[edit] oh yah and, of course, poop you're just jealous of our french coolness, so jealous that you need an european fix every 3 months. we're so cool that we make you feel cool too.
Actually, theres a big lack of shadow in Quake 4 MP maps. In other words, the light count is down a lot, so having a 4-6k model wont hurt it at all. Its not like Doom 3 where you had your model cast 5-10 different shadows, they really optimized it.
Yep, there's a lot of ambient lighting in there. Often it's only one light source, sometimes even zero. They've also removed the IK systems Doom 3 had. On the other hand, they've upped the player limit considerably so the lower polycount is probably necessary. Well, ok, Quake 4 isn't the newest game anymore so most users can probably run slightly higher polycounts.
Quake IV chokes badly once there are more than six or seven players in an open map like Longest Day, and that's my personal experience using an overclocked 256mb 6800gs. I generally get the max fps the game will allow up to about 4 players, but soon after that, each player added signifigantly hurts the framerate.
I'd say know your audience, which is people that want performance above all else, while still making the model look cool. I'd strongly suggest getting it as low poly as possible without looking too rough.
The GS is a buget card, thats why dude. Its cheap for a reason. It scored so bad in some mags that they had to put a "N/A" onthe frame rate, even in games like NFS:MW.
Odium : that's not a reason not to be efficient..less is always best, and anyways, the model won't be seen very closely, the game is quite fast paced...unless for your own pleasure, why would you want to waste ressources ? especially when the model looks as good as this one ?
Haha well my computer can barely launch Q4 -and so does my office machine since a Quadro is not really the best pick for gaming- hence I have no clue about these framerate issues guys
The complete model is around 3300 triangles, not too high not too low I guess
Yet it is true that the multiplayer maps I have seen in Q4 are not extensively lit. I will mostly be following Doom3's specs for the texture, while still making a playable Q4 version. Also my previewer is to blame for the very apparent seams, it reads Max-style normals very well but doesn't blend seams nicely. I am currently rendering the Doom-style normals that should display perfectly ingame. Maybe
Anyways! Time to texture. I am using 2 512s for the realtime screenshots but my working maps are 2048s.
That doesn't look so bad at all polycount wise so thats cool
Quake 4 kinda has a nice set for textures, it uses 4x 1024x1024 for the body, and 4x 512x512 for the head. Doom 3 used 4x 1024x512 for the body and 4x 256x256 for the head. The difference is quality is more than amazing, it got rid of doom 3's plastic look altogether.
were the proportions changed or something? his hips look a little too wide to me now... might have just been the angle in earlier shots tho i dunno... Otherwise pretty damn cool
[ QUOTE ]
Quake 4 kinda has a nice set for textures, it uses 4x 1024x1024 for the body, and 4x 512x512 for the head. Doom 3 used 4x 1024x512 for the body and 4x 256x256 for the head. The difference is quality is more than amazing, it got rid of doom 3's plastic look altogether.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is really a confusing statement, texture res has nothing to do with the "plasticy" look in d3, its the fact that glossiness has a set value with every material in d3(no varioation in specular cone = same highlights on every model just with different values. Again dosent even really have a lot to do with the actual maps themself, but the shader inherent to thier system), and the fact that they only actually use about 3 different unique shaders throughout the game. I wont even go into not having a shader set up to simulate skin. Really i dont notice that much of a difference between d3 and q4, both systems do a very poor job at simulating any surface other than metal or plastic with the standard shader.
[edit] Regarding actual usage of spec q4 did do a slightly better job with toning it down a little more, but really thats far from fixing the problem. They actually ended up muting the spec so much so that while it may look less "plasticy" it actually comes off as very flat, because theres no real spec going on.
Quite right EQ, it's just odium proving again that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Lowpoly looks great, piorou
Have you tried xNormal for viewing the normalmaps on the lowpoly? I can't remember if you tried it and it didn't work on your card, or not ... it hides normalmap seams REALLY well!
Looking cool.
But i dont really like how the mechanical bits on hes back look kinda detached, specially near the ass, but maybe it looks better when fully textured.
Replies
I may suggest that you do the mech bits in a 3d program, and dont even bother with zbrushing them. you should get a much nicer normal, imo.
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Thats what he is doing, read the posts man
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Did some more work on the techy bits. I plan to render different normalaps in order to composite them at will on the final texture.
That detail pass was made with... Xrays! I used xray shots of computer parts and imported them as projected heightmaps to build up detail. That's a MS mouse on the shoulder blade
An this is done with Meat's fan-favorite wire technique. Handy to build up armor plates fast. I will use that on the biceps, glasses, and maybe as a soft layer of tech under the skin.
Getting there!
but want to see how this turns out
nj on the MS mouse lol! that stamp thing is cool. Its like the ultimate easter-egg function
"well Bob im glad you asked that question. Actually the internals of his mechanical arm is made by stamped pictures of dildos and penises"
Good stuff!
Yay!
Edit: You could make a copy of your Zbrush tool, delete all of the lower subdivisions so that only the highest one remains, then turn on "Add" in the Import rollout of the Tool menu, and import your subdivided 3dsmax geometry... then you'll have a preview of the whole thing, and you can also use that with ZMapper to render a normalmap.
The model is looking spetacular as usual. I have always loved your attention to proper hard edges your models' musculature.
looks kickass
One question: how many tris for the high model please ?
That, or get XSI :P
But yeah Retleks, I will definatly export little by little.
I am actually looking forward editing them in photoshop. You can get decent good handpainted effects that enhances the sharpness of the normalmap, to give it a kind of oldschool Q3 look... Crazy smudges work too :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/normalsmudge_001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/normalsmudge_002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/normalsmudge_003.gif
you goddamn crazy
if you went to all the trouble of making a high poly for a normal map but can't bake it because it's too high poly to use in max, I suggest you try out zmapper. It's a normal map generation plugin for zbrush, and I've found it works far better than the normal mapping tools included with max or maya. There's a simple tutorial vid on the site which explains how it works... it's suuuper simple and the normal maps it generates tend to need far less cleanup than those made in max or maya (in my limited experience with all 3, that is)
hope this helps
regardless, this baby is gonna be COOKIN
Love the fleshy rott/scar details :]
Trying to be cool...
[/ QUOTE ]
It'll never work, you're french! MUAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Seriously buddy, this is looking great, finish finish! Don't let your and Virginie's romps to overturn cars and burn buildings distract your progress!
@poop: stfu! and YOU should get back to work, i'm still waiting for my delilah's vidtut update
hawt stuff my piorou, as usual, really makes me want to give him a lill' arena friend.
[edit] oh yah and, of course, poop you're just jealous of our french coolness, so jealous that you need an european fix every 3 months.
now get your arse moved and make more coolness
I'd say know your audience, which is people that want performance above all else, while still making the model look cool. I'd strongly suggest getting it as low poly as possible without looking too rough.
looks great pior!
The complete model is around 3300 triangles, not too high not too low I guess
Yet it is true that the multiplayer maps I have seen in Q4 are not extensively lit. I will mostly be following Doom3's specs for the texture, while still making a playable Q4 version. Also my previewer is to blame for the very apparent seams, it reads Max-style normals very well but doesn't blend seams nicely. I am currently rendering the Doom-style normals that should display perfectly ingame. Maybe
Anyways! Time to texture. I am using 2 512s for the realtime screenshots but my working maps are 2048s.
Normalmapped:
Wireframed:
the hands do look a bit stumpy tho, is he wearing gloves?
Quake 4 kinda has a nice set for textures, it uses 4x 1024x1024 for the body, and 4x 512x512 for the head. Doom 3 used 4x 1024x512 for the body and 4x 256x256 for the head. The difference is quality is more than amazing, it got rid of doom 3's plastic look altogether.
I think that was more because they figured out how to do specmaps right (and use color specmaps).
Quake 4 kinda has a nice set for textures, it uses 4x 1024x1024 for the body, and 4x 512x512 for the head. Doom 3 used 4x 1024x512 for the body and 4x 256x256 for the head. The difference is quality is more than amazing, it got rid of doom 3's plastic look altogether.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is really a confusing statement, texture res has nothing to do with the "plasticy" look in d3, its the fact that glossiness has a set value with every material in d3(no varioation in specular cone = same highlights on every model just with different values. Again dosent even really have a lot to do with the actual maps themself, but the shader inherent to thier system), and the fact that they only actually use about 3 different unique shaders throughout the game. I wont even go into not having a shader set up to simulate skin. Really i dont notice that much of a difference between d3 and q4, both systems do a very poor job at simulating any surface other than metal or plastic with the standard shader.
[edit] Regarding actual usage of spec q4 did do a slightly better job with toning it down a little more, but really thats far from fixing the problem. They actually ended up muting the spec so much so that while it may look less "plasticy" it actually comes off as very flat, because theres no real spec going on.
Lowpoly looks great, piorou
Have you tried xNormal for viewing the normalmaps on the lowpoly? I can't remember if you tried it and it didn't work on your card, or not ... it hides normalmap seams REALLY well!
But i dont really like how the mechanical bits on hes back look kinda detached, specially near the ass, but maybe it looks better when fully textured.