[ QUOTE ]
Actually Larry:MCM is listed on the ESRB's AO-rated games list, there's probably a cut and an uncut version of that.
[/ QUOTE ]
the version i have of larry is rated mature, and has lil black censor bars, but in 1 minute of google search you can download a small patch that removes the censor bars, how is this any diffrent?
my thoughts is that these holier than thou groups are pissed that all their bitching aobut gta's violence has not got them anywhere, so now they are trying a difrent angle, and this is just an excuse.
the real problem here are parents not paying attention to their kids, and stores selling to underage children
Thompson is on a roll...and he's not done yet. His latest goat is a game that doesn't involve guns, carjacking, or prostitutes: He's going after Electronic Arts' The Sims 2.
In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."
It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobes. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."
Hahaha, "fully detailed nudity"... Yes, if you download a patch for that, the included Sims are as detailled as a Barbie doll. Perhaps he's confusing that with Singles which is already rated AO.
[ QUOTE ]
"The blur can be disarmed. This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."
Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."
[/ QUOTE ]
You've got to be kidding me. That is going too far. That guy probably hasn't gotten laid in decades, because the only sex I see in Sims2 to is two character flipping around underwater in a hottub. I think there's a scene on a couch too. But it only resembles to people being playful, and that's probably all it would appear to be for children. It's no surprise there is a nude patch out somewhere, but I doubt it's getting as much attention as Hot Coffee. My gf loves the Sims and has no urge to see undressed mannequins walking around.
If this isn't dismissed with a ton of laughter, we're all in trouble. Game artists are the next terrorists!!!
[/ QUOTE ]Why not? Al Qaeda's a beaten horse, Taliban's boring, no one else is too "widespread"...
So Game Artists and Modders will do fine.
[ QUOTE ]
the real problem here are parents not paying attention to their kids, and stores selling to underage children
[/ QUOTE ]"OMFG NO U LIAR!!"
This is the most overlooked part of this whole Rockstar thing yet...
It's not the fact that no one actually follows the ESRB, neither the fact that millions of 12-year old kids have the games, nor the fact that their parents don't give a SHIT.
it's the "secret mod-unlockable content is used to pervert kids" concept that counts.
[ignorance]Because, like, that's where the problem is. Those damn game artists.[/ignorance]
This doesn't just impact Rockstar, though. The retail industry has lost over $50million in sales, and much more is being spent on these worthless trials. The fact that an 84yr old (obviously senile) is taking Rockstar to court, is just plain stupid. She bought an M rated game (17yr+ only) for a 14yr old child, and then complained when he unlocked the 'barbie doll' sex.
I dunno, it's utterly ridiculous. ANY game can be made into a porn fest with simple texture or animation swaps. Rockstar should have removed all content of it, sure. But as all of us know, there are always hunks of code that get left in your games.
I wouldn't say I'm GLAD to see Rockstar deal with this, but I certainly hope that they learn from it. I'd like to see what happens to EA with the Sims2 'problem', though.
You know the plasticine thing, kids can make dildos out of it!!! SUE
And it gets worse...
You can take Jack Thompson's pants off!! So we must sue him too because hes a naked guy near children waiting to happen.
I didnt know the Australians where afraid of
sex as well.=)
Well well.. There you go.
And still to this day no one has given a answer why sex is so much more worst then slaughter innocent people in the streets. What a bunch of hypocritical asshats.
My first thought was how did this happen? How did that content get onto the discs? Based on my own experience as a game developer and with modding earlier episodes of GTA, I suspect that Rockstar put the sequence in the game originally but at some point was told or decided it needed to be cut. This choice was probably made pretty late in development, perhaps even after it went gold . In order to minimize the work to remove it and the potential of breaking anything else, only the entry point to the sequence was chosen to be removed by someone without experience of what a rabid community will do to a game. Now we fast forward through the coffee mod being released and the various press releases back and forth to the present and you see every lawyer and politician dog piling on the game and publisher for easy ratings. No one, not even these outraged flag wavers seems willing to acknowledge publicly the other gameplay aspects of the game. I may be a bit cynical, but the end motivation of these defenders of public morals seems to be more about their own agendas that protecting the children of America. If a public discussion on the full game was to happen, I somehow expect that the general excitement over this would be lessened. The issue that I perform simulated consensual sex seems to grow pale when contrasted against the fact that I can also perform simulated wholesale manslaughter at any time, through a variety of options for my own enjoyment in the game. I would ask these self appointed champions for a blueprint and parts lists for the platform on which they so sternly march. Are their priorities really organized this way? Is the ability to literally perform genocide through a ghetto really approved while a sex scene is not? But perhaps Im a bit bitter as well as Ill discuss in a moment.
From my point of view, the most embarrassing moment in the whole affair was the carefully crafted statement that Rockstar first released. I do acknowledge it spoke the absolute truth. It would stand up in any court of law. Which shouldnt be surprising; that document had legalese fingerprints three or four layers deep. It was worded as to avoid the real situation and completely deflect blame onto the modding community. The statement casually reads like that this chunk of gameplay was made and stuck into the game by modders. It was to be the horrible vermin children out there stealing music and writing viruses. But if you understand even a little of how games are put together, you realize that Rockstars word mincing was actually saying that the mod only put the entry point back in. Gosh, thats two different avenues of liability isnt it?
If Rockstar had reacted a bit more honestly, I suspect that they could have weathered this issue easier and perhaps even avoided the situation that they have been forced into. As a game developer, my take away is that they should have been more thorough. If the game slipped a few days, we wouldnt even remember that fact at this point. Someone screwed up and the lawyers and marketers knee jerk reactions made the situation much worse and cost themselves millions. As a game modder, I really hope Rockstar enjoys the problem they created for themselves to the fullest extent.
i just found it funny that this thread was getting all the USA hate over this, and then "poof" banned in australia!
its easy to point the blame at something just because its trendy to do so, the fact is, theres stupid people everywhere, and even more so there stupid politicians / lawyers willing to make a buck off exploiting them.
Yeah, they like to place blame on America and say things like "oh look, USA is afraid of sex and boobies..har har har". It distracts everyone from the fact Europeans smell bad. :P
[ QUOTE ]
i just found it funny that this thread was getting all the USA hate over this, and then "poof" banned in australia!
its easy to point the blame at something just because its trendy to do so, the fact is, theres stupid people everywhere, and even more so there stupid politicians / lawyers willing to make a buck off exploiting them.
[/ QUOTE ]
We dont bash the US. I think we are more fascinated,
and clueless about the whole deal.;)
At least I am.
to me one of the most absurd things about this is the ESRB rating system.. What honestly is the point of a rating for 17+ that is mature, and one for 18+ that is adults only?
I get the feeling that the system is set up exactly for cases like this- so that a game can be singled out and banned from shops, because of a policy against AO games.
What magical change happens between 17 and 18, because I sure don't remember any..
Rick, wow, that's pure hypocrisy - gun manufacturers (THE MAKERS OF DEADLY WEAPONS) are allowed protection if someone uses the DEADLY WEAPONS THEY MAKE to kill people ...
Yet a computer game maker can be sued and blamed if kids see virtual nudity (definitely not deadly) or get the urge to go kill people - using the weaponry they, by rights, should not be allowed.
Sheer hypocrisy. It's crazy. Something is very wrong with the legal and media system over there.
In 2002, there were nearly 12,000 firearm homicides in the USA. That's 4.1 deaths per 100,000 people.
In 2002, there were 81 firearm homicides in England and Wales. Eighty-one. That's 0.15 deaths per 100,000 people.
From this, we can determine that proportionally, there were 27 times as many firearm homicides in the US than the UK in 2002. I doubt that figure has got any better recently - if anything, it'll be worse. It's twenty-seven times more likely to be shot in the USA than in England. That's a pretty big difference. What is the reason for this, you may ask? I give you the answer - the legality of guns.
The games industry is being used as a scapegoat in the USA. The root of the problem is gun culture.
I know this is a bit of a tangent from the original topic, but it's the real issue that needs to be addressed.
Some links for your perusal (where I got my facts from - the government):
Mop, and if you take the 'chance of being killed' number and the number of guns in america/uk and wave a magic wand over them I'm sure the percentages will either get a hell of a lot closer or the uk will end up as a more deadly place.
The zealous, almost bordering on religious anti-gun movement really needs to get it's head out of it's arse.
If you go with the anti-gun nuts or the gun nuts, you'll still end up with around the same % of deaths.
and considering something like, 85% of the population are morons, and 95% of all morons are assholes, we are pretty much fucked when it comes to everything.
[ QUOTE ]
and considering something like, 85% of the population are morons, and 95% of all morons are assholes, we are pretty much fucked when it comes to everything.
[/ QUOTE ]
which is why i'd be in favor of a semi-dictatorship if we didnt get a moron asshole as a leader, and most dictators seem to have the moron-asshole part down.
Mishra: Dont you already have a semi dictatorship?
on the guns thing: Guns that are designed specificaly for killing people (like handguns) should not be aloud to be owned in a society where killing people is illegal. The same goes for knives over here in the UK. some are obviously not for survival uses.
Bort: What? Less guns = less firearm homicides (maybe not a whole lot less intentional ones, but definitely a lot less accidental ones or even "crimes of opportunity"). Where's the argument?
[ QUOTE ]
Mishra: Dont you already have a semi dictatorship?
on the guns thing: Guns that are designed specificaly for killing people (like handguns) should not be aloud to be owned in a society where killing people is illegal. The same goes for knives over here in the UK. some are obviously not for survival uses.
[/ QUOTE ]
some people need to be killed, only heavy weapons are illegal so they're pointless for civilians now. if we had heavy weapons we could overthrow the government, which is why the second amendment was created in the first place, so if the government took too many rights we could overthrow them.
"There's a Moron-Asshole in charge, and finding a dictator without the Moron-Asshole disease is pretty damn hard.."
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy sums this up very nicely by stating that, when it comes to politics, anyone who is capable of leading will not want the position and anyone who wants the position should by all means not be allowed to have it.
I'd have to agree.
"what the fuck is this thread about anyways?"
It's about how GTA causes anti-gun nuts to kill people because the US is a dumb semi-dictatorship, obviously.
You, like most other anti gun people will spout(shout in this case) pointless facts and figures when it comes to guns.
[ QUOTE ] In 2002, there were nearly 12,000 firearm homicides in the USA. That's 4.1 deaths per 100,000 people.
In 2002, there were 81 firearm homicides in England and Wales. Eighty-one. That's 0.15 deaths per 100,000 people.
From this, we can determine that proportionally, there were 27 times as many firearm homicides in the US than the UK in 2002. I doubt that figure has got any better recently - if anything, it'll be worse. It's twenty-seven times more likely to be shot in the USA than in England. That's a pretty big difference. What is the reason for this, you may ask? I give you the answer - the legality of guns.
[/ QUOTE ]
Prime example. Lets take a wild guess that there may be 27(or very likely more) times more guns in america. *SHOCK* It has nothing todo with the legality of guns.
Guns are mostly illegal in the uk yet if you take the 4.1 and show it in relation of the ********** guns in america and 0.15 and show it in relation to the ***** guns in the uk you'll end up with roughly an equal chance of being killed by a gun. Thus the point is worthless.
Just like the opportunistic politicians painting games, rock and roll, drugs etc as the evil that corrupts, the anti-gun movement are doing the same with guns.
[ QUOTE ]
wow, that's pure hypocrisy
[/ QUOTE ]
Guns aren't part of the issue, they are a tool. The issue is an over populated world where people are controlled by man made corrupted systems. The symptom of the system shouldn't be the thing you fight.
I'm as big a hippy liberal as any of you but I can smell shit when it's fed to me from which ever side it comes from.
___________
[ QUOTE ]
It's about how GTA causes anti-gun nuts to kill people because the US is a dumb semi-dictatorship, obviously.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're lucky its not Cashew nuts. We'd be here for days!
Replies
Actually Larry:MCM is listed on the ESRB's AO-rated games list, there's probably a cut and an uncut version of that.
[/ QUOTE ]
the version i have of larry is rated mature, and has lil black censor bars, but in 1 minute of google search you can download a small patch that removes the censor bars, how is this any diffrent?
my thoughts is that these holier than thou groups are pissed that all their bitching aobut gta's violence has not got them anywhere, so now they are trying a difrent angle, and this is just an excuse.
the real problem here are parents not paying attention to their kids, and stores selling to underage children
Thompson is on a roll...and he's not done yet. His latest goat is a game that doesn't involve guns, carjacking, or prostitutes: He's going after Electronic Arts' The Sims 2.
In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."
It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobes. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."
The Sims case I hope will get the drop on himself as a laughing stock, i hope i hope i hope
if he wins with that though, this does not look good for any other game involving castrated/neutered nudity (which there is alot of)
Rhinokey: There's aan official uncensored version out there: http://www.esrb.org/search_results.asp?key=Larry&type=game&validateSearch=1&x=0&y=0
"The blur can be disarmed. This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."
Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."
[/ QUOTE ]
You've got to be kidding me. That is going too far. That guy probably hasn't gotten laid in decades, because the only sex I see in Sims2 to is two character flipping around underwater in a hottub. I think there's a scene on a couch too. But it only resembles to people being playful, and that's probably all it would appear to be for children. It's no surprise there is a nude patch out somewhere, but I doubt it's getting as much attention as Hot Coffee. My gf loves the Sims and has no urge to see undressed mannequins walking around.
If this isn't dismissed with a ton of laughter, we're all in trouble. Game artists are the next terrorists!!!
Game artists are the next terrorists!!!
[/ QUOTE ]Why not? Al Qaeda's a beaten horse, Taliban's boring, no one else is too "widespread"...
So Game Artists and Modders will do fine.
[ QUOTE ]
the real problem here are parents not paying attention to their kids, and stores selling to underage children
[/ QUOTE ]"OMFG NO U LIAR!!"
This is the most overlooked part of this whole Rockstar thing yet...
It's not the fact that no one actually follows the ESRB, neither the fact that millions of 12-year old kids have the games, nor the fact that their parents don't give a SHIT.
it's the "secret mod-unlockable content is used to pervert kids" concept that counts.
[ignorance]Because, like, that's where the problem is. Those damn game artists.[/ignorance]
Scott
Anywhere else in the world that isn't scared of boobies?
[/ QUOTE ]
i like boobs
as always maddox nails it
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell
I dunno, it's utterly ridiculous. ANY game can be made into a porn fest with simple texture or animation swaps. Rockstar should have removed all content of it, sure. But as all of us know, there are always hunks of code that get left in your games.
I wouldn't say I'm GLAD to see Rockstar deal with this, but I certainly hope that they learn from it. I'd like to see what happens to EA with the Sims2 'problem', though.
I love united states of freedom
[/ QUOTE ]Ah yes, the freedom to be stupid...
the stupid makes my head hurt
And it gets worse...
You can take Jack Thompson's pants off!! So we must sue him too because hes a naked guy near children waiting to happen.
sex as well.=)
Well well.. There you go.
And still to this day no one has given a answer why sex is so much more worst then slaughter innocent people in the streets. What a bunch of hypocritical asshats.
My first thought was how did this happen? How did that content get onto the discs? Based on my own experience as a game developer and with modding earlier episodes of GTA, I suspect that Rockstar put the sequence in the game originally but at some point was told or decided it needed to be cut. This choice was probably made pretty late in development, perhaps even after it went gold . In order to minimize the work to remove it and the potential of breaking anything else, only the entry point to the sequence was chosen to be removed by someone without experience of what a rabid community will do to a game. Now we fast forward through the coffee mod being released and the various press releases back and forth to the present and you see every lawyer and politician dog piling on the game and publisher for easy ratings. No one, not even these outraged flag wavers seems willing to acknowledge publicly the other gameplay aspects of the game. I may be a bit cynical, but the end motivation of these defenders of public morals seems to be more about their own agendas that protecting the children of America. If a public discussion on the full game was to happen, I somehow expect that the general excitement over this would be lessened. The issue that I perform simulated consensual sex seems to grow pale when contrasted against the fact that I can also perform simulated wholesale manslaughter at any time, through a variety of options for my own enjoyment in the game. I would ask these self appointed champions for a blueprint and parts lists for the platform on which they so sternly march. Are their priorities really organized this way? Is the ability to literally perform genocide through a ghetto really approved while a sex scene is not? But perhaps Im a bit bitter as well as Ill discuss in a moment.
From my point of view, the most embarrassing moment in the whole affair was the carefully crafted statement that Rockstar first released. I do acknowledge it spoke the absolute truth. It would stand up in any court of law. Which shouldnt be surprising; that document had legalese fingerprints three or four layers deep. It was worded as to avoid the real situation and completely deflect blame onto the modding community. The statement casually reads like that this chunk of gameplay was made and stuck into the game by modders. It was to be the horrible vermin children out there stealing music and writing viruses. But if you understand even a little of how games are put together, you realize that Rockstars word mincing was actually saying that the mod only put the entry point back in. Gosh, thats two different avenues of liability isnt it?
If Rockstar had reacted a bit more honestly, I suspect that they could have weathered this issue easier and perhaps even avoided the situation that they have been forced into. As a game developer, my take away is that they should have been more thorough. If the game slipped a few days, we wouldnt even remember that fact at this point. Someone screwed up and the lawyers and marketers knee jerk reactions made the situation much worse and cost themselves millions. As a game modder, I really hope Rockstar enjoys the problem they created for themselves to the fullest extent.
its easy to point the blame at something just because its trendy to do so, the fact is, theres stupid people everywhere, and even more so there stupid politicians / lawyers willing to make a buck off exploiting them.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=6066
the stupid makes my head hurt
[/ QUOTE ]
wasnt australia a penile colony populated by criminals, why have they got an issue with mammaries?
wasnt australia a penile colony
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes... that's the one.
i just found it funny that this thread was getting all the USA hate over this, and then "poof" banned in australia!
its easy to point the blame at something just because its trendy to do so, the fact is, theres stupid people everywhere, and even more so there stupid politicians / lawyers willing to make a buck off exploiting them.
[/ QUOTE ]
We dont bash the US. I think we are more fascinated,
and clueless about the whole deal.;)
At least I am.
I get the feeling that the system is set up exactly for cases like this- so that a game can be singled out and banned from shops, because of a policy against AO games.
What magical change happens between 17 and 18, because I sure don't remember any..
We dont bash the US. I think we are more fascinated,
and clueless about the whole deal.;)
At least I am.
[/ QUOTE ]
As are we here in the US
In the US gun manufacturers and selelrs will ont be held responsible for acts of violence commited using a gun.
Yet if an act is commited and blamed on a game, you can still sue the makers of the game, the shop that sold it, and the console manufacturer.
It's a bad world where there are more litigation lawyers than engineers.
Yet a computer game maker can be sued and blamed if kids see virtual nudity (definitely not deadly) or get the urge to go kill people - using the weaponry they, by rights, should not be allowed.
Sheer hypocrisy. It's crazy. Something is very wrong with the legal and media system over there.
In 2002, there were nearly 12,000 firearm homicides in the USA. That's 4.1 deaths per 100,000 people.
In 2002, there were 81 firearm homicides in England and Wales. Eighty-one. That's 0.15 deaths per 100,000 people.
From this, we can determine that proportionally, there were 27 times as many firearm homicides in the US than the UK in 2002. I doubt that figure has got any better recently - if anything, it'll be worse. It's twenty-seven times more likely to be shot in the USA than in England. That's a pretty big difference. What is the reason for this, you may ask? I give you the answer - the legality of guns.
The games industry is being used as a scapegoat in the USA. The root of the problem is gun culture.
I know this is a bit of a tangent from the original topic, but it's the real issue that needs to be addressed.
Some links for your perusal (where I got my facts from - the government):
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm
http://www.connected.gov.uk/facts/statistics/index.html
it is beginning to sound a bit like a "Bowling for Columbine" discussion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup...
The zealous, almost bordering on religious anti-gun movement really needs to get it's head out of it's arse.
If you go with the anti-gun nuts or the gun nuts, you'll still end up with around the same % of deaths.
and considering something like, 85% of the population are morons, and 95% of all morons are assholes, we are pretty much fucked when it comes to everything.
[/ QUOTE ]
which is why i'd be in favor of a semi-dictatorship if we didnt get a moron asshole as a leader, and most dictators seem to have the moron-asshole part down.
- we are pretty much fucked when it comes to everything.
[/ QUOTE ]mmhyep!
on the guns thing: Guns that are designed specificaly for killing people (like handguns) should not be aloud to be owned in a society where killing people is illegal. The same goes for knives over here in the UK. some are obviously not for survival uses.
Mishra: Dont you already have a semi dictatorship?
[/ QUOTE ]They do, just..
There's a Moron-Asshole in charge, and finding a dictator without the Moron-Asshole disease is pretty damn hard..
And the extra-terrestrials aren't even interested.
Mishra: Dont you already have a semi dictatorship?
on the guns thing: Guns that are designed specificaly for killing people (like handguns) should not be aloud to be owned in a society where killing people is illegal. The same goes for knives over here in the UK. some are obviously not for survival uses.
[/ QUOTE ]
some people need to be killed, only heavy weapons are illegal so they're pointless for civilians now. if we had heavy weapons we could overthrow the government, which is why the second amendment was created in the first place, so if the government took too many rights we could overthrow them.
Freedom in which to take other people's freedom away...
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy sums this up very nicely by stating that, when it comes to politics, anyone who is capable of leading will not want the position and anyone who wants the position should by all means not be allowed to have it.
I'd have to agree.
"what the fuck is this thread about anyways?"
It's about how GTA causes anti-gun nuts to kill people because the US is a dumb semi-dictatorship, obviously.
Weeeeee!!!
[ QUOTE ]
In 2002, there were nearly 12,000 firearm homicides in the USA. That's 4.1 deaths per 100,000 people.
In 2002, there were 81 firearm homicides in England and Wales. Eighty-one. That's 0.15 deaths per 100,000 people.
From this, we can determine that proportionally, there were 27 times as many firearm homicides in the US than the UK in 2002. I doubt that figure has got any better recently - if anything, it'll be worse. It's twenty-seven times more likely to be shot in the USA than in England. That's a pretty big difference. What is the reason for this, you may ask? I give you the answer - the legality of guns.
[/ QUOTE ]
Prime example. Lets take a wild guess that there may be 27(or very likely more) times more guns in america. *SHOCK* It has nothing todo with the legality of guns.
Guns are mostly illegal in the uk yet if you take the 4.1 and show it in relation of the ********** guns in america and 0.15 and show it in relation to the ***** guns in the uk you'll end up with roughly an equal chance of being killed by a gun. Thus the point is worthless.
Just like the opportunistic politicians painting games, rock and roll, drugs etc as the evil that corrupts, the anti-gun movement are doing the same with guns.
[ QUOTE ]
wow, that's pure hypocrisy
[/ QUOTE ]
Guns aren't part of the issue, they are a tool. The issue is an over populated world where people are controlled by man made corrupted systems. The symptom of the system shouldn't be the thing you fight.
I'm as big a hippy liberal as any of you but I can smell shit when it's fed to me from which ever side it comes from.
___________
[ QUOTE ]
It's about how GTA causes anti-gun nuts to kill people because the US is a dumb semi-dictatorship, obviously.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're lucky its not Cashew nuts. We'd be here for days!