On the topic of the confusion between correlation and causation : I might be totally off-base here but I tend to believe that a lot of people just straight up don't understand the difference. I suppose that's probably because logic is not really taught at school ?
And from there I suppose that pattern recognition goes into overdrive - leading some to think that it must be fine to sleep two hours a night since some successful people do so It's a bit like that video with the girl unable to understand that travelling for one hour at 80mph means that she'll travel 80 miles - or like the good old 1kg of lead/1kg of feathers thing.
Anyways, it's past 2am here, I should probably hit the sack. But that's cool, since just 2 hours of sleep will bring me great health and success after all
I slept on average 8-10 hours per night every night for the last 15 years. I also avoid (negative) stress whenever possible, and i react differently to stress and always try to keep my cool. I also don't overwork myself. Never, unless its sports.
I did it differently in the past and it was more suffering and less benefits.
Also working with South American Curanderos once or twice per year to reset the body and more importantly removing mental blockades from the mind works wonderfully for my health and sanity.
When i look in the mirror i look 10 years younger than i am. Nobody believes me when i tell them my true age.
I don't care if its correlation or causation, it works for me.
Don't think you need sleep? Join the army. Be all you can be. I can tell all sorts of stories about how sleep deprivation brings out the best in people.
Science is not obscure university studies summarized and speculated upon by non-science professionals. A key fundamental of science is the assumption of ignorance. Nothing is a fact until you can make accurate, consistent predictions, and even then there is always the possibility of new findings altering what was previously considered fact. This usually requires a large body of evidence -- perhaps lifetimes of data collection -- not five hours on the internet. There is a very important difference between logical inference from data and amateur speculation.
In many cases, if you actually read the linked, peer-reviewed articles being summarized (and if you aren't a professional in that given field, its doubtful you'd be able to even understand the technical jargon), you'll find that the conclusions drawn by the non-science professional citing the article is purely speculative and perhaps even contrary to what was found in the studies. This kind of journalism is deceptive in nature. The authors are using scientific studies to make an argument from authority -- akin to me saying my brother is a dentist so you should trust me when I talk about oral health (except, if my brother were a dentist, you might assume I've actually gleaned some info from him, whereas in the case of these internet articles, it's anybodies guess who the hell the author is or what their agenda might be).
Even if you see no reason to be interested in science, learning about the scientific method will go a long way into helping you troubleshoot all sorts of problems. Learn what science really is, and don't believe whatever you read on the internet, even if it says something you want to believe is true, and especially if it touts science like it were a religion.
Whatever you read and believe about sleep, it is a very personal topic as we each have our own unique physiology. It's not a great difficulty to run some experiments, record your data, and find what works best for you. The key is being honest to the data, letting the facts dictate the facts, and not letting your expectations have anything to do with the truth.
Yup, been there done that, a pretty high octane environment for sure.
In my younger days, one 'fond' sleep deprived memory occurred during a ginormous multinational exercise (K89) involving land, sea and air forces from a number of NATO and ANZUS aligned nations, largest military deployment since WW2 the country had seen. Anyway my Regiment was re-tasked for a lateral east to west admin move across the training range which was no small feat considering it's size give or take a few kilometres was roughly that of the UK, so basically a 73hr continuous 'bush bash' other than mandatory resupply/refueling halt parades through semi arid aussie outback driving a 13 tonne armoured tracked vehicle all the while keeping a sharp lookout for croc's when fording the odd river or billabong.
looking back now it's amazing to think in certain situations what the mind and body is actually capable of enduring, I guess there's also something too be said for robust training and army rations...as well : )
Let's be honest here. Sleeping over 8 hours a day is impossible and rather detrimental if you're a productive person with a daily schedule full of tasks and projects.
Let's see if it's possible:
We work about 8 hours a day. Then commute to/from work may take one or 2 hours per day. Prepare and eat Breakfast-Dinner will take about 1-2 hour a day. We already at 12 here.
Then let's take one or 2 hour per day to relax or doze off.. We are at 14 now. Leaving us 2 or 4 hours for personal project/work. Enjoying time with the kids if you have some.So we're at 16-18.
Leaving us with required 8 hours of sleep needed...
But yeah..that is if everything goes well...Everyone would like to perfectly balance their time to get the proper amount of sleep but in reality, to keep a consistent daily schedule like that is rather difficult..
All these studies, all this chat about causation. I refuse to look that shit up. You're tired? Go to bed. You're not tired? Get woke. Animals have managed this for millions of years with zero books
How come Japan has one of the highest life spans on earth, but also the most brutal work schedules as well?
I only get 3-4 hours of sleep each day. Sometimes even less or I skip it completely. But I'm still able to run half way across my city without ever feeling tired.
I only get 3-4 hours of sleep each day. Sometimes even less or I skip it completely. But I'm still able to run half way across my city without ever feeling tired.
Don't worry, that won't last— even if it's ok for now, it's not sustainable.
There are other factors to health besides sleep; my assumption is that the long life spans in Japan are the result of other factors, and that the lack of sleep, and the tough working conditions, do not help. They live so long in spite of their overworked lifestyle.
In fact, the tough working conditions are driving suicide rates higher, all around the world, but especially in Japan.
@Blond : well, it depends - and it all starts by setting priorities. Like for instance making sure that ones commute doesn't exceed a certain amount of minutes to begin with. It's a life choice one simply has to decide to make, with all the consequences that come with it. Now I am not saying that it is easy to actually achieve, at all - I am just saying that it is possible to control this somehow. It starts when picking up a career, deciding on a place where one wants to live, choosing where to apply, and so on. Some sacrifices have to be made but time is a non-renewable ressource. It's worth it.
Also, personal projects andrelaxing are the same thing
Don't worry, that won't last— even if it's ok for now, it's not sustainable.
There are other factors to health besides sleep; my assumption is that the long life spans in Japan are the result of other factors, and that the lack of sleep, and the tough working conditions, do not help. They live so long in spite of their overworked lifestyle.
In fact, the tough working conditions are driving suicide rates higher, all around the world, but especially in Japan.
In my defense, I'm sacrificing part of my health in exchange for an opportunity to work a dream job and flee from where I'm living.
Whether I'll continue such lifestyle when I do find a job is still unseen, but maximizing all my productivity is the only way I hope I'll get the call one day saying "You're hired, now lets us help you move from where you're currently living" and escape what feel likes a hellish environment everyday.
That's just how much I despise where I currently live and am doing everything I can to get out.
In my defense, I'm sacrificing part of my health in exchange for an opportunity to work a dream job and flee from where I'm living.
I really hope you are able to get to a better place asap.
However...always keep the long view in mind. You don't know what the future will hold, and you can't sprint forever. This is a lesson that life has tried to teach me a thousand times, but I still make the same mistakes again and again. Just two days ago I was hiking with my wife, and a sign informed us there was two miles left. We were already broken at that point (all this computer work has gotten me a bit out of shape), but decided to just hammer the last two miles out because, well it's just two miles. Turns out the trail had been worked on since that sign was put up, and the mere two miles took us another four hours of hiking to complete. It sucked, and it sucked hard because the entire way we had certain expectations that just kept getting destroyed with every step we took.
I can't tell you how many painful miles I've walked, making myself more and more miserable because I was counting down towards the finish. I wish I could teleport back into time on all those occassions and say, "hey, jackass, forget the finish, and forget all your petty discomforts. There will be a time for comfort and happiness, but by focusing on that now, you're only making right now worse."
So, however much pain you are feeling with every step, you've got to adopt a mindset that whatever the current situation is, that is just the way life is. You've got to accept the situation, and make the determination that you will adapt however necessary to not just live in the given environment but thrive in the environment. It's damn tough, but once you make this mental shift, you become a very positive person without even trying. People will start to see you as a leader -- steady and in control -- rather than somebody with issues they don't want to get involved with.
You need sleep to be alert, and aware and not use your smart phone as your navigation and brains. Remember landmarks, not go `Siri where is that park`, Siri, how do I get out of the parking lot`.
You need sleep to have productive conversations with people, not `text me only`.
Its not just sleep, i think an important factor when it comes to quality of life is the amount of thinking you do. Do you think too much? Can you turn it off? Is your monkey brain talking to you without pause? Can you just sit still and be without getting restless?
If you can't turn off your brain you might have an overactive default mode network. I know what i am talking about, mine is hyperactive.
This condition bleeds into all aspects of life. Sleep, state of mind, appetite, social life, etc...
I feel really good at the moment, the scorching earth kind of summer is good for my psyche, my default mode network is silent, i can just be...and guess what: i need less sleep, I am more productive, fearless, focused and stress resistant.
When i feel depressed and burned out, i need more sleep, i am less not productive, i am afraid, restless and easily stressed.
In the western world we like to focus on one thing, a singular explanation for anything and we ignore the rest, but its Bullshit. One can't separate the mind from the body, its all one giant system. Mono-causal explanations leads to nowhere.
Observe the whole system, don't single out things and observe them as if there are in a vacuum.
I don't know how people can survive like that. If I get less than 7 hours, trying to pay attention to anything the next day is near impossible for me. So for me, staying up late doesn't give me just more time to work, it also gives me less time to work tomorrow.
Replies
And from there I suppose that pattern recognition goes into overdrive - leading some to think that it must be fine to sleep two hours a night since some successful people do so
Anyways, it's past 2am here, I should probably hit the sack. But that's cool, since just 2 hours of sleep will bring me great health and success after all
Science is not obscure university studies summarized and speculated upon by non-science professionals. A key fundamental of science is the assumption of ignorance. Nothing is a fact until you can make accurate, consistent predictions, and even then there is always the possibility of new findings altering what was previously considered fact. This usually requires a large body of evidence -- perhaps lifetimes of data collection -- not five hours on the internet. There is a very important difference between logical inference from data and amateur speculation.
In many cases, if you actually read the linked, peer-reviewed articles being summarized (and if you aren't a professional in that given field, its doubtful you'd be able to even understand the technical jargon), you'll find that the conclusions drawn by the non-science professional citing the article is purely speculative and perhaps even contrary to what was found in the studies. This kind of journalism is deceptive in nature. The authors are using scientific studies to make an argument from authority -- akin to me saying my brother is a dentist so you should trust me when I talk about oral health (except, if my brother were a dentist, you might assume I've actually gleaned some info from him, whereas in the case of these internet articles, it's anybodies guess who the hell the author is or what their agenda might be).
Even if you see no reason to be interested in science, learning about the scientific method will go a long way into helping you troubleshoot all sorts of problems. Learn what science really is, and don't believe whatever you read on the internet, even if it says something you want to believe is true, and especially if it touts science like it were a religion.
Whatever you read and believe about sleep, it is a very personal topic as we each have our own unique physiology. It's not a great difficulty to run some experiments, record your data, and find what works best for you. The key is being honest to the data, letting the facts dictate the facts, and not letting your expectations have anything to do with the truth.
BIGTIMEMASTER wrote:
Don't think you need sleep? Join the army.
Yup, been there done that, a pretty high octane environment for sure.
In my younger days, one 'fond' sleep deprived memory occurred during a ginormous multinational exercise (K89) involving land, sea and air forces from a number of NATO and ANZUS aligned nations, largest military deployment since WW2 the country had seen. Anyway my Regiment was re-tasked for a lateral east to west admin move across the training range which was no small feat considering it's size give or take a few kilometres was roughly that of the UK, so basically a 73hr continuous 'bush bash' other than mandatory resupply/refueling halt parades through semi arid aussie outback driving a 13 tonne armoured tracked vehicle all the while keeping a sharp lookout for croc's when fording the odd river or billabong.
looking back now it's amazing to think in certain situations what the mind and body is actually capable of enduring, I guess there's also something too be said for robust training and army rations...as well : )
Let's see if it's possible:
We work about 8 hours a day. Then commute to/from work may take one or 2 hours per day. Prepare and eat Breakfast-Dinner will take about 1-2 hour a day. We already at 12 here.
Then let's take one or 2 hour per day to relax or doze off.. We are at 14 now.
Leaving us 2 or 4 hours for personal project/work. Enjoying time with the kids if you have some.So we're at 16-18.
Leaving us with required 8 hours of sleep needed...
But yeah..that is if everything goes well...Everyone would like to perfectly balance their time to get the proper amount of sleep but in reality, to keep a consistent daily schedule like that is rather difficult..
I only get 3-4 hours of sleep each day. Sometimes even less or I skip it completely. But I'm still able to run half way across my city without ever feeling tired.
There are other factors to health besides sleep; my assumption is that the long life spans in Japan are the result of other factors, and that the lack of sleep, and the tough working conditions, do not help. They live so long in spite of their overworked lifestyle.
In fact, the tough working conditions are driving suicide rates higher, all around the world, but especially in Japan.
Also, personal projects and relaxing are the same thing
Whether I'll continue such lifestyle when I do find a job is still unseen, but maximizing all my productivity is the only way I hope I'll get the call one day saying "You're hired, now lets us help you move from where you're currently living" and escape what feel likes a hellish environment everyday.
That's just how much I despise where I currently live and am doing everything I can to get out.
However...always keep the long view in mind. You don't know what the future will hold, and you can't sprint forever. This is a lesson that life has tried to teach me a thousand times, but I still make the same mistakes again and again. Just two days ago I was hiking with my wife, and a sign informed us there was two miles left. We were already broken at that point (all this computer work has gotten me a bit out of shape), but decided to just hammer the last two miles out because, well it's just two miles. Turns out the trail had been worked on since that sign was put up, and the mere two miles took us another four hours of hiking to complete. It sucked, and it sucked hard because the entire way we had certain expectations that just kept getting destroyed with every step we took.
I can't tell you how many painful miles I've walked, making myself more and more miserable because I was counting down towards the finish. I wish I could teleport back into time on all those occassions and say, "hey, jackass, forget the finish, and forget all your petty discomforts. There will be a time for comfort and happiness, but by focusing on that now, you're only making right now worse."
So, however much pain you are feeling with every step, you've got to adopt a mindset that whatever the current situation is, that is just the way life is. You've got to accept the situation, and make the determination that you will adapt however necessary to not just live in the given environment but thrive in the environment. It's damn tough, but once you make this mental shift, you become a very positive person without even trying. People will start to see you as a leader -- steady and in control -- rather than somebody with issues they don't want to get involved with.
You need sleep to have productive conversations with people, not `text me only`.