Marmoset Toolbag 3.02 is Available now!

EarthQuake

Marmoset Toolbag 3 is Available Now

It is with great pleasure we announce Toolbag 3’s official release. Check out our shiny new site to try, buy, and learn about the exciting new features: http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag

Animation, global illumination, and brand new, innovative texture baker headline the new version. A revamped interface, enhanced render quality, new skin shader, ArtStation upload, Unity and Unreal export, and many more features and improvements ensure that Toolbag is ready to tackle any challenge, from concept through production.

Joseph Silverman

EarthQuake said:

Joseph Silverman said:

Hey, can you transfer arbitrary maps from high to low in toolbag 3's baker, or just albedo/spec/gloss? Need to transfer ~5 maps to lowpoly unwrap and would be really convenient to do it all in one step.
Relatedly, is there a way to bake bump or normal map detail from highpoly (like, bake a highpoly's normals _including_ a normal map applied to it) or is that too much to hope for?

You can bake arbitrary maps, load them into the albedo slot and bake an albedo map. Whatever you put in there will get baked. There is a bug with padding for these types of maps ATM but this should get fixed for the next build (coming soon!).

Currently normal maps applied to the highpoly materials don't bake down to the final lowpoly normal map. I'll add that to the suggestion list.

Cool, thanks for the reply, that's how I was planning to do it.

In my ideal world, it would amazing to be able to bake x number of extra maps (ie, albedo, specular, gloss, mymap1, mymap 2, [...]) along with the albedo/spec/gloss instead of needing to switch out the albedo and have separate configurations.

(I guess this is a really uncommon thing to need from a baker, but I get assets where I need to do this a lot, and always requires a slightly clumsy workflow)

EarthQuake

Joseph Silverman said:

EarthQuake said:

Joseph Silverman said:

Hey, can you transfer arbitrary maps from high to low in toolbag 3's baker, or just albedo/spec/gloss? Need to transfer ~5 maps to lowpoly unwrap and would be really convenient to do it all in one step.
Relatedly, is there a way to bake bump or normal map detail from highpoly (like, bake a highpoly's normals _including_ a normal map applied to it) or is that too much to hope for?

You can bake arbitrary maps, load them into the albedo slot and bake an albedo map. Whatever you put in there will get baked. There is a bug with padding for these types of maps ATM but this should get fixed for the next build (coming soon!).

Currently normal maps applied to the highpoly materials don't bake down to the final lowpoly normal map. I'll add that to the suggestion list.

Cool, thanks for the reply, that's how I was planning to do it.

In my ideal world, it would amazing to be able to bake x number of extra maps (ie, albedo, specular, gloss, mymap1, mymap 2, [...]) along with the albedo/spec/gloss instead of needing to switch out the albedo and have separate configurations.

(I guess this is a really uncommon thing to need from a baker, but I get assets where I need to do this a lot, and always requires a slightly clumsy workflow)

What sort of maps are you looking to bake? If these are maps that our material system already supports it may make it easier to add extra outputs.

csmallfield

Is there a tech specs sheet for Toolbag 3? It would be great to get a list of technical features such as supported import and export options. I will hopefully download the trial this weekend. But I was wondering about Alembic Cache or USD support. Particle cache like OpenVDB? Export 32bit exr files?  

Any info would be great! Thanks!
~Chris

EarthQuake

The Featurcsmallfield said:

Is there a tech specs sheet for Toolbag 3? It would be great to get a list of technical features such as supported import and export options. I will hopefully download the trial this weekend. But I was wondering about Alembic Cache or USD support. Particle cache like OpenVDB? Export 32bit exr files?  

Any info would be great! Thanks!
~Chris

The Features tab on the product page has most of that information: https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/

Alembic Cache files are supported. Particle cache is not. The baker can bake 32 bit PSD files.
If there is anything else you would like to know, let me know.

Joseph Silverman

EarthQuake said:

Joseph Silverman said:

EarthQuake said:

Joseph Silverman said:

Hey, can you transfer arbitrary maps from high to low in toolbag 3's baker, or just albedo/spec/gloss? Need to transfer ~5 maps to lowpoly unwrap and would be really convenient to do it all in one step.
Relatedly, is there a way to bake bump or normal map detail from highpoly (like, bake a highpoly's normals _including_ a normal map applied to it) or is that too much to hope for?

You can bake arbitrary maps, load them into the albedo slot and bake an albedo map. Whatever you put in there will get baked. There is a bug with padding for these types of maps ATM but this should get fixed for the next build (coming soon!).

Currently normal maps applied to the highpoly materials don't bake down to the final lowpoly normal map. I'll add that to the suggestion list.

Cool, thanks for the reply, that's how I was planning to do it.

In my ideal world, it would amazing to be able to bake x number of extra maps (ie, albedo, specular, gloss, mymap1, mymap 2, [...]) along with the albedo/spec/gloss instead of needing to switch out the albedo and have separate configurations.

(I guess this is a really uncommon thing to need from a baker, but I get assets where I need to do this a lot, and always requires a slightly clumsy workflow)

What sort of maps are you looking to bake? If these are maps that our material system already supports it may make it easier to add extra outputs.

Usually height or normal map. Sometimes refraction or opacity. (I've been doing a lot of getting assets that were originally rendered in vray into unity lately, and being able to get everything I might need for the new materials baked in one place for any model, with a single configuration or scene file each, is really ideal.)

csmallfield

EarthQuake said:

The Featurcsmallfield said:

Is there a tech specs sheet for Toolbag 3? It would be great to get a list of technical features such as supported import and export options. I will hopefully download the trial this weekend. But I was wondering about Alembic Cache or USD support. Particle cache like OpenVDB? Export 32bit exr files?  

Any info would be great! Thanks!
~Chris

The Features tab on the product page has most of that information: https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/

Alembic Cache files are supported. Particle cache is not. The baker can bake 32 bit PSD files.
If there is anything else you would like to know, let me know.

Great! Yes that was what I was looking for. Thanks for the quick reply. 

I am mainly interested in Marmoset at the moment because I am curious if it could be used to render shots completely. I realize that isn't the original intended purpose, I just like the lighting methods and the quality, from what I have seen. From what I have read and seen, this could be possible.

My intended pipeline would be something like the following.

1. Model in Maya/Zbrush
2. Texture in Substance Painter/Mari/Photoshop
3. Do look dev and shading in Toolbag
4. Rig and Animate in Maya then export Alembic cache
5. Animate and export camera
6. Light/Render and add post effects in Toolbag

In order to make that work there are a couple things that would be nice to know a bit more about.

1. It says "Tesselation" on the spec page, is that Catmull/Clark subdivision? Does it smooth UVs too or maintain borders? Can ABC caches have subdivision added? Is it universal or per object?
2. I think I read somewhere that displacement is supported, as well as normal maps, is that right?
3. Shaders can be imported and exported between scenes/files?
4. If you update an ABC cache will it maintain shader connections?
5. There are nice post fx like DOF and Vignettes, what about motion blur?

Sorry for so many questions, just curious and excited by this product.

Cheers,
Chris

EarthQuake

csmallfield said:

EarthQuake said:

The Featurcsmallfield said:

Is there a tech specs sheet for Toolbag 3? It would be great to get a list of technical features such as supported import and export options. I will hopefully download the trial this weekend. But I was wondering about Alembic Cache or USD support. Particle cache like OpenVDB? Export 32bit exr files?  

Any info would be great! Thanks!
~Chris

The Features tab on the product page has most of that information: https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/

Alembic Cache files are supported. Particle cache is not. The baker can bake 32 bit PSD files.
If there is anything else you would like to know, let me know.

Great! Yes that was what I was looking for. Thanks for the quick reply. 

I am mainly interested in Marmoset at the moment because I am curious if it could be used to render shots completely. I realize that isn't the original intended purpose, I just like the lighting methods and the quality, from what I have seen. From what I have read and seen, this could be possible.

My intended pipeline would be something like the following.

1. Model in Maya/Zbrush
2. Texture in Substance Painter/Mari/Photoshop
3. Do look dev and shading in Toolbag
4. Rig and Animate in Maya then export Alembic cache
5. Animate and export camera
6. Light/Render and add post effects in Toolbag

In order to make that work there are a couple things that would be nice to know a bit more about.

1. It says "Tesselation" on the spec page, is that Catmull/Clark subdivision? Does it smooth UVs too or maintain borders? Can ABC caches have subdivision added? Is it universal or per object?
2. I think I read somewhere that displacement is supported, as well as normal maps, is that right?
3. Shaders can be imported and exported between scenes/files?
4. If you update an ABC cache will it maintain shader connections?
5. There are nice post fx like DOF and Vignettes, what about motion blur?

Sorry for so many questions, just curious and excited by this product.

Cheers,
Chris

Hey Chris,

Your workflow sounds similar to how a lot of people use Toolbag. To answer your specific questions:

1. Tessellation refers specifically to DX11 tessellation that is commonly seen in game engines. We have two types, a flat tessellation mode that sub-divides but does not smooth, and PNTriangles, which sub-divides and attempts to intelligently smooth the silhouette - this is generally intended to make low-poly game assets look smoother. We don't support Catmull-Clark sub-d at this time.
2. Displacement mapping is supported, yes, as well as normal maps, and most common input types like albedo, gloss/roughness, specular, metalness, ambient occlusion, cavity, and some special purpose maps for the skin shader like subdermis and translucency maps. Opacity maps are supported too.
3. Materials can be imported and exported if you want to bring a material from one .TBSCENE to another .TBSCENE, our proprietary scene file. We can also export FBX and OBJ files, including materials, however the material support with those formats is not as advanced as our proprietary .mat format meant for transferring materials from one TB scene to another.
4. We have auto-reloading of mesh files, including FBX and OBJ. Material connections will remain as long as the material name stays the same. If the material name changes, it will first look for a material in the scene that matches that name, and if it doesn't find one, it will make a new one.
5. Yes, we have an extensive selection of post effects, like DOF, vignette, sharpen, bloom, exposure, contrast, hue, and color curves as well (which I use a lot for color grading). We don't have a motion blur effect in yet, but this is something we would like to add with a future update.

If you're curious about any of this stuff, we offer a free, fully-featured 30 day trail on our site: https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/

csmallfield

Thanks again for the quick response Joe. I downloaded the trial and started to play around with it. Firstly, it's excellent. Really easy to use and really fast results. It's brought up some new questions, that maybe you could shed some light on. I've uploaded a test video as reference to my questions here - https://vimeo.com/195126711
This scene is using GI, an HDR and a single "skylight" for shadows. The cast shadows in my scene are from the skylight which is a directional and I assume is using a shadow map. Rendered in the new update 3.01.

1. I have high quality shadows enabled, but they are still far too low and noticibly pixelated. Where might I adjust this resolution? I would love to have crisp sharp shadows in this lighting scenario.
2. Can one blur the shadow map? filter it?
3. Is it possible to have shadows that are sharp at the contact point and progressively get softer?

I also have some noticible noise in the GI component, which can be reduced by increasing the samples to 100x. I need to look at the new GI settings to see if I could tune it better to not increase render time so much. Any advice on GI tuning? When it says 1x 2x 3x 4x is that the number of GI bounces or is that a sampling multiplier?

Motion blur, or a motion vector pass option would be really nice in the future.

Cheers!
Chris

EarthQuake

@csmallfield

There are some things you can do to improve shadows. First off, shadow resolution is shared for the whole scene, so if you've got a very large scene, but are zoomed into a small part of it, the relative shadow resolution will be pretty low. We don't have an option to set shadow resolution higher than the current high-res shadow option at this time.

Directional lights (the type that are added when you click in the sky light editor) are always mapped to the whole scene. You can usually get better results by using spot lights instead, because the cone of the light limits the resolution to a smaller area of the scene.

You can blur the shadows, by adjusting the width setting in the light properties to convert the light to an area light. Area lights also have penumbra shadows that get blurrier further from the object.

If you're getting noise in the scene, this might be from local reflections rather than the GI system (depends on the sort of noise though). The only way to improve this is to raise the sampling to 100x or 400x. 

Thanks for the feedback.

csmallfield

@EarthQuake - You are right that the noise is coming from the local reflection and turning the setting up to 100x solved it. What is that unit? Samples? Rays?

Regarding the shadows, I could get better looking results with the other light types, but it's a little sad that it doesn't seem possible to simulate a bright sun with parallel light rays without ruining the resolution of the shadowmap.

So much about this tool is incredibly good, and I know it's aimed more towards single model presentations than actual shot production, but if I were to offer one piece of advice for changing that, it would be to expose some of these values and let the user adjust them. It's really the only thing stopping someone from doing full shots and sequences with MT3 as the renderer.

Direct control over shadowmap resolution, GI bounces, and more specific control over sampling for tuning the speed (like choosing a number between 25x and 100x), and eventually motion blur or motion vectors would make it a game changer.

Cheers Joe and thanks for assistance. I'll definitely keep playing with it and probably buy a copy at the end of the trial.

-Chris

mkdm

Hi everyone and good afternoon.

I'm a newcomer and I kindly ask you some help to solve a strange issue that I'm experimenting with Toolbag 3.
I must admit that I'm not very skilled both inf realtime rendering engine and in texturing/uving/retopo,
because my "comfort zone" is rather modelling in general and in particular 3D Nurbs modelling.

For some time I'm trying to gain skill in Poly/SDS modelling and my current pipeline is : 

- 3D Nurbs modelling : Rhino V5/V6 WIP and Moi3D
- Poly/SDS : NVIL and Rocket3F (from the author of NVIL and Andrei Samardac)
- Special case 3D Voxels ; MagicaVoxel
- Uv/retopo/texturing : 3DCoat 4.7.17 (latest beta)
- 2D Gfx : Photoshop/Illustartor/Affinity Designer/Affinity Photo
- Not real time renderer : Thea Render (Unbiased CPU+GPU, Biased CPU)
- Real time renderer : Brande new InstantLight and Toolbag 3 (in demo)

This is the request of help I sent some hours ago to official support of Marmorset, but I want to ask also here
because I guess that you are very skilled people

If someone can help this would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

This is the text of the email I sent :

Hi Marmorset Toolbag3 dev team and good morning.

I'm trying and testing your latest Toolbag3 demo version in order to

see if it meets my needs but I'm encoutering a strange issue and I don't know what to do.

I'm going to explain the scenario.

First of all I tell you my actual config :

Windows 8.1 pro 64bit

Laptop Clevo with i7 4790K 4.4 Ghz

32 Gb ram 1600

Nvidia Quadro K3100M 4gb ram DDR5 768 cuda cores

(The quadro card is used at 100% by system because my laptop has Nvidia Optimus disabled, so I use always the GPU card and no onboard card)

DirectX 11

1) I did this test using the most possible simple scene in Toolbag3

with the most possible simple obj file.

I used a very simple, obj 3 sphere 3 meters diameter.

The obj has no uv and no textures and has smooth polygons.

This is the download link : http://take.ms/twp1U

2) I had set up the most simple scene in Toolbag3

No HDRI, only background color, no camera effetcs.

This is the link to download the scene : http://take.ms/LEb4o

3) I loaded the simple obj sphere into the scene and assigned

a very simple material to it.

I used only Diffuse Lambertian and Albedo color.

Nothing more.

4) I added only one simple omni light in front of the sphere

5) NOW THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

If I have "Cast Shadow" set to on for the light or the object,

I always see shadow glitches in the renderings.

Why ??

Please see this screen capture

If I turn off "Cast Shadow" for the light or the object,

the rendering of the shadow is correct.

Please see this capture :

6) I have also done a video screen capture to show you the issue.

This is the download link : http://take.ms/wJyc5

The video is viewable in streaming.

So, what am I doing wrong ??

This is a very simple obj sphere...

I don't understand..

I wish that you can help in order to use Tollbag3 at the best.

Please, let me know.

NoRank

try to increase the shape of the light.

mkdm

NoRank said:

try to increase the shape of the light.

Thanks. I will try!

EarthQuake

Toolbag 3.02 Now Available!

To show our love, we’ve released a free update for Valentine’s day! Toolbag 3.02 adds a number of new features and bug fixes. Highlighting the release is material animation support and a shiny new refraction shader. The Baker has seen its share of attention too, including a number of handy new additions, improvements, and fixes.

See the full release notes on our site: https://www.marmoset.co/posts/toolbag-302-now-available/

EarthQuake

Toolbag 3.02 Now Available!

To show our love, we’ve released a free update for Valentine’s day! Toolbag 3.02 adds a number of new features and bug fixes. Highlighting the release is material animation support and a shiny new refraction shader. The Baker has seen its share of attention too, including a number of handy new additions, improvements, and fixes.

Download the latest installer from the Toolbag 3 product page, or launch Toolbag 3 to get the patch.

See the full release notes on our site: https://www.marmoset.co/posts/toolbag-302-now-available/

JRay

The new updates look fantastic, thanks guys! Could you elaborate more on:

• Baker “Smooth Filter” option for geometry smoothing

Is that something like the edge shader in modo? I tried to find the option but I didn't see it.

EarthQuake

JRay said:

The new updates look fantastic, thanks guys! Could you elaborate more on:

• Baker “Smooth Filter” option for geometry smoothing

Is that something like the edge shader in modo? I tried to find the option but I didn't see it.

Unfortunately not, there's a good explanation of the feature here: http://polycount.com/discussion/179999/edgeblur-in-maya-and-why-we-sould-aim-to-implement-it-on-bakers

In Toolbag, you can find the slider near the resolution settings.

illusionist

Hi,
Left side = spot light
Right side = directional light

You see I can see the reflection of the light in the eyes when I turn to directional light. In spot light why cannot see these refelections? However looks the spot light make smoother shadows.


I check the new refraction shader, but I see the IOR looks different than other softwares. Could you explain this?

Here is a big IOR list:
http://www.pixelandpoly.com/ior.html

You can see in 3ds Max when I set the IOR to 1.38 the render looks good. I use similiar eye in Marmoset.

PolyHertz

Hey I just tried out the baking function for the first time, and was wondering if there's a quick/easy way to deal with distortion along sharp edges on lower spec meshs without adding additional geometry (such as a way to auto-mask / skew paint along edges with split normals / UV borders) ? Normally I just fix such issues in photoshop after baking, but figured I'd ask anyways.

pic to show what I'm referring to (mesh based off piece from one shown in TB3 baking video):

EarthQuake

PolyHertz said:

Hey I just tried out the baking function for the first time, and was wondering if there's a quick/easy way to deal with distortion along sharp edges on lower spec meshs without adding additional geometry (such as a way to auto-mask / skew paint along edges with split normals / UV borders) ? Normally I just fix such issues in photoshop after baking, but figured I'd ask anyways.

pic to show what I'm referring to (mesh based off piece from one shown in TB3 baking video):

There is no way to automate it, but you can try painting with the skew tool along those edges. If you paint all the way to black you may introduce errors so try at a lower opacity or at a darker gray value.

BradMyers82

Hey guys, any chance we will have a thickness map option in the baker?  I recall some people having a workaround for that in other programs, which is inverting the highpoly normals and baking ao.  But it would be awesome to have a proper one in the bake options, especially since Marmoset supports such maps in its skin shader.

BradMyers82

Also, I was trying to look up if there is any info on the specifics of AO baking.  Its true AO baking that Marmoset does right, where it evaluates the high poly rays etc.  Someone was telling me it must be the ao bake off the normal map to be that fast, but Im sure its a true ao bake.  I just would like confirmation from the devs here if possible.   Thanks!

EarthQuake

@BradMyers82: A thickness map is on our list of things to add for a future version. The AO is indeed baking from the highpoly source, and is not generated from the normal map. Toolbag 3's baker uses the GPU rather than the CPU, which is why it is so much faster than CPU bakers like xNormal.

BradMyers82

Thanks EQ, thats great news!

LNMRae

Any news at all on the Mac version?

EarthQuake

LNMRae said:

Any news at all on the Mac version?

We're actively working on it, but don't have an ETA yet, sorry.

Goshi

hello,

I am on a TB3 trail right now (as an existing TB2 user) and have some questions:

1. Is the Normals (Object) a "World space normal map" baker?
2. Can you add a baker for Cavity map?
3. Can you add a Bent Normal baker ?

And 4. May you add 3D mouse support? this would be awesome: http://www.3dconnexion.de/service/software-developer.html


Edit found another one: 5. Is GPU support for baking (looking at you, AO) planned?


Cheers!

EarthQuake

Goshi said:

hello,

I am on a TB3 trail right now (as an existing TB2 user) and have some questions:

1. Is the Normals (Object) a "World space normal map" baker?
2. Can you add a baker for Cavity map?
3. Can you add a Bent Normal baker ?

And 4. May you add 3D mouse support? this would be awesome: http://www.3dconnexion.de/service/software-developer.html


Edit found another one: 5. Is GPU support for baking (looking at you, AO) planned?


Cheers!

1. Yes
2. Cavity maps are supported, use the curvature map output and enable red/green style, that will save concavity and convexity into the R/G channels. You may want to invert the cavity map
5. Baking in TB3, including AO, is all done on the GPU.

3/4: Thanks for the feedback.

Goshi

Hi Earthquake,

thank you for your reply and hint with cavity map - I totally overlooked these settings.

Regarding the AO baker / GPU baking ä- hmmm - I felt even at 2k the AO bakers took qquiete a while (I am on a GTX 1070), all other maps
were baking super fast. Maybe I just do not remember, how slow it was in other tools, without GPU acceleration

I really hope, you cann add the features, I suggested - this would make TB3 a total dream-app for me

Cheers

Goshi

oh - and may add a thickness-baker, as well

Justo

@EarthQuake Joe, is it currently possible in TB to display stuff blending normals from multiple UV channels? Mixing trimsheets with unique bakes, like Senechal's stuff.

jose.fuentes

does anyone know if polycount will add an embeder option like they have for sketchfab?

EarthQuake

@Justo: That is not something that is currently possible, no. Supporting that sort of workflow would likely involve a major reworking of the material system, which is not to say that it will never happen, but there are no immediate plans to do so at this time.

jose.fuentes: There are technical hurdles with the web host preventing Polycount from supporting Viewer at this time, hopefully that can be solved at some point in the future though.

joebount

to delete please

Rorschach_Phoenix

Hi there, is there a way to use a custom cage? The internal cage function is great, but some meshes need a bit more love with a hand tweaked cage.

EarthQuake

Rorschach_Phoenix said:

Hi there, is there a way to use a custom cage? The internal cage function is great, but some meshes need a bit more love with a hand tweaked cage.

Not currently, but this is something we may be able to add in a future update.

Rorschach_Phoenix

EarthQuake said:

Rorschach_Phoenix said:

Hi there, is there a way to use a custom cage? The internal cage function is great, but some meshes need a bit more love with a hand tweaked cage.

Not currently, but this is something we may be able to add in a future update.

Alright. Thanks! Looking forward to it. The baker is absolutely fantastic.

Klo Works

the new update fix all the baking problem 
thanks