I did a super quick paintover just to show u what I would love to see changed Anyway keep up the great work!
Definitely agree with these suggestions gives her more of the cold feeling the red lips just makes it feel like shes warm and alive, but with the blue it matches the diamond dust feel if you catch my drift. Also amazing work Keep it up!
@TomGT I did change the eyes as a lot of people felt the more natural eyes didn't really fit with the character, which in a way I agree. But I still think I'm going to miss them, they felt kind of nice haha! @lotet Hahaha yah I gotta reword the exact placement and make it fit better with the hair. I keep doing touch up in the area but I will make sure it looks better in the polishing phase @happybell I agree, I did like the way it looked but I agree it doesn't really fit with who shiva is as a character. Hopefully you like the new eyes a bit better, I just really liked how soft the previous eyes were, but Shiva isn't exactly soft! @cmc444 Thanks man, very sweet of you @Alemja Hahaha yah actually I'm still using full color flats for the clothing texture and no metal/roughness etc. basically the texturing isn't done at all, I'm definitly going to try to add some kind of icy-frosty-crystally effect to the clothing, I want it to feel ''otherworldly'' and not so normal. Yes in the concept she is wearing full glove, I was just not a huge fan and took the decision to have her hand out, Its totally a personnal preference and a conscient decision I took to go in another direction there. @pmiller001 Hahaha thanks man, that thing took way too long, that's why I took a little break, I just couldn't look at those damn haircards no more. I still handpaint my hair albedo and alpha but yah, thats definitly not the hard part, I do this quite quickly, the shitty part is making the damn hair cards. Glad you like it @SveinY Thanks for taking the time to do a paintover! I think I did something quite similar as to what you were suggesting with the eyes. I did add a bit more of a blue tint to the lips but I kept it a bit more subtle and kept a bit of warm at the middle part of the lips, that's just personnal preference, the paintover looked good. I have been thinking of reworking the hairline a little bit to pull back the side a little bit but I will go with something a bit more subtle that what you painted. I personnally feel the ''heart'' shape is a bit too intense in the paintover. Thanks again for taking the time to do this! @seimax thanks man! @Fazijinn Yah I hear what you are saying, I kept it a tad more warm, it's all personnal preference, when it's too blue I just always feel like she looks a bit like a corpse (lol!) So I always keep a bit of warmth.
So I actually lied and did a tiny tiny bit of touch up on the hair. I added a bunch of flyaway but unfortunatly I don't feel like you see them much, I might add a bit more later. Omg I need to stop touching the damn hair and start the texturing .... I changed the eyes to give them more of that surreal feel, trying to make her feel less human more ''goddesss'' I redid the ''placeover'' makeup I had and added some tint to her cheeks and lips. I tried making the eyelashes White-ish at the ends to kind of give that frosty-icy effect to the ends. What do you guys think? too much? should I give her regular black eyelashes. I also took a shot without them to better show the eye makeup.
Nice! I knew you where still using full flats, I just didn't know what your plans where for the final thing, glad you're going for an otherworldly feel, it's gonna look awesome once you pull it off. Makeup and eyes are looking much better! I think the white eyelashes help accent it. If there is one thing that is bugging me a little bit still, it's the corner of her eyes where the white meets, maybe try softening it? Kinda like this image:
Gah I've been missing all of this!? Damn it (coulda swore I subscribed to this thread T_T). Well it's certainly come along since I saw it in august haha. Don't really have any comments aside from whats been said. Maybe add some more SSS to her ears? Maybe they could be blueish instead of red since she's Shiva and all.
Love what you've done with the eyes. May want to make the eyebrows a blue shade instead of brown. Otherwise it may look like she dyed her hair blue instead of it being her natural color. Looking forward to seeing more.
Just realized its been quite a lil while since last update, Life got in the way as usual but I'm doing my best to get back to work on this, Been mostly working on the skin recently, started doing some test on the clothing but so far I wasn't convince with the frost effect I was trying to get, this will definitly need more trials and error, will keep you updated once I have something work looking at. Worked on the spec-rougness subdermal and all of those lovely thing to bring the skin to life a little bit. Wanted the makeup to be kind of metallic and sparkly, might need some tweaking, you guys let me know what you think.
@alemja I believe the new update probably fixed the ''white'' issue that was bugging you Hope you like it @amirabd2130@Potatojim@lotet thanks guys, hope you still like them now that they are all fancy and metallic @Aveon Hahaha it's sooo easy to miss thread, There was no work done on the skin shader setting (no transmission map, subdermal etc etc) so that's the reason you couldn't see any transluency in the ear, this shouldbe fixed now . I didn't go for a blue-is look because as she is aldready very white-pale it made her look like a corpse ugh. Marmoset 3 is now in open beta if you didnt know yet, check onfacebook! @Stavaas Thank you! @disanski rereading the comments I just remembered I did actually bring the hairline up a little bit, its subtle tho @Chris Kuhner uh weird,not sure why the eyebrows looked brown in the last shot, they definitly aren't hopefully the blue shows up a bit better this time around. Shiva ain't using no clairol on dem glorious locks @Ouran Thanks!!
@Tits It's looking really great! Since it's your project and you get the ultimate say, I hope its the result you like as well. This model is so clean and well done already I can't wait to see what it looks like finished!
looking good! I think some redness on the edges of the eyeballs that blends with the skin color would be nice.. especially on the outer edge... The hair turned out great... really hard to get white hair looking good!
@Tits ahhhhhhhh, got it, yeah it looks good with red, and at least you tried the blue ears! If you wanted something along the same idea maybe have some frost or snow accumulation? Just food for thought. Either way that metallic make up is lot's of Yaaas.
I think I'm might do some quick fix here and there but I might call the texturing done real quick. This project has been dragging on for way too long now. I was also kind of slacking off until the rig is done, in the mean time I'm working on some cool crystal thing to add to her final presentation. I have worked on adding a bit more flyaways to her hair, add kind of an icy- effect moving from the feet up, charge the material of the shoes to give it an icy feel. I've done the roughness-spec map and worked more on the skin shading. @Alemja thank you, can't wait to be done at this point @Wendy de Boer thank you so much! @Intervain Thank you so much magda, very nice catch on the eyeball, I did adjust it and it makes a good difference @Stinkfoot thank you!! @TJLaw3d @Mateus Thanks!! Was definitly one of my goal to do a pretty, godess looking stylised face on this one, glad you liked it! @ZOoOD Thank you, I not sure i'll do any additional touch up to the hair at this point i'm afraid, i've spend enough time on hair for a little while @Aveon Hope you like the effect I added on the feet! I tried some more overall look before but IMO it looked very busy and harder to read. Itwas also bigger push away from the original concept. I think what I did add a personnal touch without completly re-imagining the colors and look from the concept. Glad you like the sparkly makeup! @nastobi123 Thank you
@afisher Thank you Adam always means a lot coming from you Currently working on some crystal for the final presentation of the character. Will add more variations-work in the roughness maps and stuff but here's what I have so far. WIsh I could make it somehow a bit non-opaque but I don't believe it can be done inside of Marmoset (if you know how let me know!!)
WIsh I could make it somehow a bit non-opaque but I don't believe it can be done inside of Marmoset (if you know how let me know!!)
Have you tried setting the Transparency to Add, lower the Alpha value and set a blue Tint? Also see if turning backface culling off helps with seeing through the object.
@Kroma! Yah that was my first instinct for them to feel a bit less opaque but i really didnt get the effect I wanted. I was working with a transluency map to try to get that effect I wanted but no matter how strong my map was I couldn't get the effect to be as strong as I wanted. @TeriyakiStyle came to the rescue and helped me out Love the effect now!
I'm an environment artist and I love coming through these types of threads to see a character artist's work improve over time. It's an amazing site to see.
I'm not too sure what type of effect you are looking to create with the ice but I quickly googled "Frosted Glass UE4." Just to see what would pop up. I'm still learning how to get glass right in engine, so I was looking for myself as well. Ha ha! I'm unsure of where you plan on doing your final render for this character but I'm thinking a frosted glass refraction would work great here with a subtle noise map of your choosing to be used for the refraction. Maybe use an opacity map of sorts where the edges and cuts of the ice are white and the further out you go from those white areas it fades to black, creating an opacity mask. Allowing the edges to still stand out. Maybe this will be useful, maybe not.
Warning: I'm sorry for the wall of text, i just had a lot of ideas to contribute haha
That Fresnel is a nice touch! I've seen some people successfully do gems and such in marmoset, though I'm not sure how. If I had to brainstorm it, I'd say that, since ice is a mixture of reflection and refraction, maybe you could fake it by having 2 meshes? One with the add transparency (the one for eyes, super reflective) and then one with no reflection but a semi-transparency and some translucency. Then maybe additionally you could put some planes in the middle with alphas to simulate variations in the transparency dependant on angle, as well as the air pockets? maybe just bake some circles on with higher reflectivity and inverted normals to get the air pockets, then some low gloss with almost no transparency for the center area's where the ice has some impurities?
Haven't tried it, so don't really know how well it'd work haha, but I like that you're going for it. /respect
edit: did not see the response @o@, I like the point of it's strongest build up on the bottom of the feet, and i like the normals for the frost, but it's not getting the feeling of ice across No matter what you do to fix it (whether you add opacity between the normals for the frost, or drop the idea all together) I think the big thing is that Ice isn't really a color, it's a translucent material that has both transparent and opaque areas, and the opaque areas itself will be closer to white. Besides the boots now being the highest contrast area on the model, it looks wrong with the idea of ice in mind. Here's 2 articles on why ice looks the way it does (if it helps). I also linked a reference to a picture of the Lich King from the World of Warcraft universe. In the cinematic for it he has a lot of frost and ice build up on the rims of his armor, the armor is dark so it compliments it well.
Also realized ice build up was more of a Shiva-from-FFX thing, so it'd make sense to not include it to stay with the original design. All food for thought
@Asura Thank you! @acealmighty13 Hey, thanks for your input, unfortunatly this is not in UE4 but in Marmoset toolbag which mean I'm way more restricted in terms of what I can do. For exemple there is currently no refraction inside of TB3. transparency isn't also really a thing and so it's impossible for me to play with the opacity of the material, I'm just really trying to fake as much as possible with the technical constraint I have. But thanks a lot regardless. @Aveon, thanks for the input, like I just said to Ace, I have a lot of limitation to what I can do. Marmoset currently do not have refraction or fresnel so I wanted to try and use a second ''pushed'' mesh in ''add'' mode just like for the eyes to give more of a fresnel effect but in the end it always ended up looking worst than what I had without. Did couple other test but in the end I never liked the result. I use the skin shader for transluency but opacity isn't very well supported inside of marmoset so it was impossible for me to make the model look less opaque (unless i wanted a noisy looking mesh with really didnt sell the effect) For that reason all of that bubble alpha thing you suggest just can't work. Maybe will see more options available later on in TB3 for the kind of stuff you're talking about. Sorry to hear you are not a fan of the 'frosted'' feet thing, That kind of effect could definitly look better if I had access to a bunch of very fancy shader and options but I currently don't. (This is real time and not pre-rendered like this lich king) For that reason I am personally alright with what I have but thanks for the input. Sometimes you just gotta do the best you can with the tech and options you have that's a big part of game art. Also, for the ice crystal thing, I'm trying to really push a ''Final fantasy'' crystal look more than like, realistic ice here.
@Tits and that's perfectly cool too haha (I just feel bad that I was suggesting the idea in the first place, hope I didn't waste too much of your time haha.) MTB definitely does have some limitations when it comes to opacity, but what you've got looks good! I think with some variance in details on the crystals it'd match the detail level you have going on with the Character.
@Aveon Haha nah, definitly did not waste my time, I tried a bunch of things (like opacity, and shell) before you even suggested it, I also had made test with this technique on Shiva's shoe and horn aldready. Might try to update those to see if I can bring it a bit closer to the type of shading I got going on the crystal, see how it looks. @artstream I mean I could, making the crystal including all the test took like an hour or two, but not sure if needed? I don't think you can really tell that much that it's all the same crystal? Will see when I do the final presentation
Last update until I can do the final posed beautyshot on this. I updated the horn and shoes to have an effect that comes a little bit closer to the effect I went for with the crystals.
The face and hair looks great, not so sure about the body. The hips are very outlined, you usually don't see that unless the person is very skinny and this woman looks chubby. But the face looks nice, maybe she would look more natural without the makeup.
I Lieeeeed! SInce I Don't know how long it will take before my rig will be done. I decided to do some final ''T-posed'' shots. Just wanted to have some final shots made before the end of the year. The beautyshots are still coming, they will, one day, I'm notorious (in my head) for often doing those much later (#jinx #ellie) @Enalya Me toooo, can't wait to get my hand on the rig @Aveon Glad you liked it @Tomtegubbe I see you are back on a new account. Aside from her larger thighs I don't believe this model is even close from being chubby. She does have curls I guess. Sorry to hear you do not like her body or her makeup, it's all personnal choices and preferences I'm personally happy with
The shoes (I hope that's what they're called lol) look fantastic, as does the rest of the model. Really love the way the light interacts with her clothing, you nailed the sheen I see in a lot of FFXIV screens but also made it look 1000x better. Great work!
@Tits Yeah I suppose most of it's personal preference, I should refrain from backseat driving in the future. Something about super girly stuff just triggers me in a bad way especially when it's praised to such an extent. You're very talented, keep up the good work.
The lighting on that shoe shot is really making the materials sing well, Im looking forward to seeing something similar in the final FINAL beauty shots
I'm not too familiar with Toolbag, but can you do some sort of parallax in there? Using parallax is a pretty common way for us environment guys to get some fake translucency/depth on ice. I would recommend that for the crystal, but I would think any ice build up on Shiva herself would be more frosty, and less glass-like.
I know the ice buildup on her is something you are aware of and are experimenting with. I think that will make or break the overall finished piece for me. Of course your work is fantastic and the sculpt, mesh turned out wonderful .
Perhaps for me, the biggest standout is the fleshy skin tones. She looks warm, which is contradictory to her being a cold ice god. I believe you mentioned earlier in your thread that you were going for realistic skin tones, but maybe perhaps try modifying her skin a bit? Even if it was just more pale. Looking at pictures of people who are cold, their skin tends to get more pale when they are cold/freezing.
Great work, I look forward to seeing you finish this!
Replies
@lotet Hahaha yah I gotta reword the exact placement and make it fit better with the hair. I keep doing touch up in the area but I will make sure it looks better in the polishing phase
@happybell I agree, I did like the way it looked but I agree it doesn't really fit with who shiva is as a character. Hopefully you like the new eyes a bit better, I just really liked how soft the previous eyes were, but Shiva isn't exactly soft!
@cmc444 Thanks man, very sweet of you
@Alemja Hahaha yah actually I'm still using full color flats for the clothing texture and no metal/roughness etc. basically the texturing isn't done at all, I'm definitly going to try to add some kind of icy-frosty-crystally effect to the clothing, I want it to feel ''otherworldly'' and not so normal.
Yes in the concept she is wearing full glove, I was just not a huge fan and took the decision to have her hand out, Its totally a personnal preference and a conscient decision I took to go in another direction there.
@pmiller001 Hahaha thanks man, that thing took way too long, that's why I took a little break, I just couldn't look at those damn haircards no more. I still handpaint my hair albedo and alpha but yah, thats definitly not the hard part, I do this quite quickly, the shitty part is making the damn hair cards. Glad you like it
@SveinY Thanks for taking the time to do a paintover! I think I did something quite similar as to what you were suggesting with the eyes. I did add a bit more of a blue tint to the lips but I kept it a bit more subtle and kept a bit of warm at the middle part of the lips, that's just personnal preference, the paintover looked good.
I have been thinking of reworking the hairline a little bit to pull back the side a little bit but I will go with something a bit more subtle that what you painted. I personnally feel the ''heart'' shape is a bit too intense in the paintover. Thanks again for taking the time to do this!
@seimax thanks man!
@Fazijinn Yah I hear what you are saying, I kept it a tad more warm, it's all personnal preference, when it's too blue I just always feel like she looks a bit like a corpse (lol!) So I always keep a bit of warmth.
So I actually lied and did a tiny tiny bit of touch up on the hair. I added a bunch of flyaway but unfortunatly I don't feel like you see them much, I might add a bit more later. Omg I need to stop touching the damn hair and start the texturing ....
I changed the eyes to give them more of that surreal feel, trying to make her feel less human more ''goddesss''
I redid the ''placeover'' makeup I had and added some tint to her cheeks and lips.
I tried making the eyelashes White-ish at the ends to kind of give that frosty-icy effect to the ends. What do you guys think? too much? should I give her regular black eyelashes.
I also took a shot without them to better show the eye makeup.
Keep it up!
Also......Marmoset 3 Beta you say?...
Life got in the way as usual but I'm doing my best to get back to work on this,
Been mostly working on the skin recently, started doing some test on the clothing but so far I wasn't convince with the frost effect I was trying to get, this will definitly need more trials and error, will keep you updated once I have something work looking at.
Worked on the spec-rougness subdermal and all of those lovely thing to bring the skin to life a little bit.
Wanted the makeup to be kind of metallic and sparkly, might need some tweaking, you guys let me know what you think.
@alemja I believe the new update probably fixed the ''white'' issue that was bugging you
@amirabd2130@Potatojim@lotet thanks guys, hope you still like them now that they are all fancy and metallic
@Aveon Hahaha it's sooo easy to miss thread, There was no work done on the skin shader setting (no transmission map, subdermal etc etc) so that's the reason you couldn't see any transluency in the ear, this shouldbe fixed now
@Stavaas Thank you!
@disanski rereading the comments I just remembered I did actually bring the hairline up a little bit, its subtle tho
@Chris Kuhner uh weird,not sure why the eyebrows looked brown in the last shot, they definitly aren't hopefully the blue shows up a bit better this time around. Shiva ain't using no clairol on dem glorious locks
@Ouran Thanks!!
This model is so clean and well done already I can't wait to see what it looks like finished!
looks great, I love having metallic in the eyes too, gives a great shine and life to them
I did not know! brb, i need that in my life haha
This project has been dragging on for way too long now.
I was also kind of slacking off until the rig is done, in the mean time I'm working on some cool crystal thing to add to her final presentation.
I have worked on adding a bit more flyaways to her hair,
add kind of an icy- effect moving from the feet up, charge the material of the shoes to give it an icy feel.
I've done the roughness-spec map and worked more on the skin shading.
@Alemja thank you, can't wait to be done at this point
@Wendy de Boer thank you so much!
@Intervain Thank you so much magda, very nice catch on the eyeball, I did adjust it and it makes a good difference
@Stinkfoot thank you!!
@TJLaw3d
@Mateus Thanks!! Was definitly one of my goal to do a pretty, godess looking stylised face on this one, glad you liked it!
@ZOoOD Thank you, I not sure i'll do any additional touch up to the hair at this point i'm afraid, i've spend enough time on hair for a little while
@Aveon Hope you like the effect I added on the feet! I tried some more overall look before but IMO it looked very busy and harder to read. Itwas also bigger push away from the original concept. I think what I did add a personnal touch without completly re-imagining the colors and look from the concept. Glad you like the sparkly makeup!
@nastobi123 Thank you
Currently working on some crystal for the final presentation of the character.
Will add more variations-work in the roughness maps and stuff but here's what I have so far.
WIsh I could make it somehow a bit non-opaque but I don't believe it can be done inside of Marmoset (if you know how let me know!!)
I was working with a transluency map to try to get that effect I wanted but no matter how strong my map was I couldn't get the effect to be as strong as I wanted.
@TeriyakiStyle came to the rescue and helped me out
Love the effect now!
I'm not too sure what type of effect you are looking to create with the ice but I quickly googled "Frosted Glass UE4." Just to see what would pop up. I'm still learning how to get glass right in engine, so I was looking for myself as well. Ha ha! I'm unsure of where you plan on doing your final render for this character but I'm thinking a frosted glass refraction would work great here with a subtle noise map of your choosing to be used for the refraction. Maybe use an opacity map of sorts where the edges and cuts of the ice are white and the further out you go from those white areas it fades to black, creating an opacity mask. Allowing the edges to still stand out. Maybe this will be useful, maybe not.
Looks amazing!
That Fresnel is a nice touch! I've seen some people successfully do gems and such in marmoset, though I'm not sure how. If I had to brainstorm it, I'd say that, since ice is a mixture of reflection and refraction, maybe you could fake it by having 2 meshes? One with the add transparency (the one for eyes, super reflective) and then one with no reflection but a semi-transparency and some translucency. Then maybe additionally you could put some planes in the middle with alphas to simulate variations in the transparency dependant on angle, as well as the air pockets? maybe just bake some circles on with higher reflectivity and inverted normals to get the air pockets, then some low gloss with almost no transparency for the center area's where the ice has some impurities?
Haven't tried it, so don't really know how well it'd work haha, but I like that you're going for it. /respect
edit: did not see the response @o@, I like the point of it's strongest build up on the bottom of the feet, and i like the normals for the frost, but it's not getting the feeling of ice across
Also realized ice build up was more of a Shiva-from-FFX thing, so it'd make sense to not include it to stay with the original design. All food for thought
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-snow-appear-white-in-colour-while-water-is-transparent-colourless-1
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/07/ice-cubes-clear-others-cloudy/
http://sf.co.ua/13/08/wallpaper-2973256.jpg
@acealmighty13 Hey, thanks for your input, unfortunatly this is not in UE4 but in Marmoset toolbag which mean I'm way more restricted in terms of what I can do. For exemple there is currently no refraction inside of TB3. transparency isn't also really a thing and so it's impossible for me to play with the opacity of the material, I'm just really trying to fake as much as possible with the technical constraint I have. But thanks a lot regardless.
@Aveon, thanks for the input, like I just said to Ace, I have a lot of limitation to what I can do. Marmoset currently do not have refraction or fresnel so I wanted to try and use a second ''pushed'' mesh in ''add'' mode just like for the eyes to give more of a fresnel effect but in the end it always ended up looking worst than what I had without. Did couple other test but in the end I never liked the result. I use the skin shader for transluency but opacity isn't very well supported inside of marmoset so it was impossible for me to make the model look less opaque (unless i wanted a noisy looking mesh with really didnt sell the effect)
For that reason all of that bubble alpha thing you suggest just can't work. Maybe will see more options available later on in TB3 for the kind of stuff you're talking about.
Sorry to hear you are not a fan of the 'frosted'' feet thing, That kind of effect could definitly look better if I had access to a bunch of very fancy shader and options but I currently don't. (This is real time and not pre-rendered like this lich king) For that reason I am personally alright with what I have but thanks for the input. Sometimes you just gotta do the best you can with the tech and options you have
Also, for the ice crystal thing, I'm trying to really push a ''Final fantasy'' crystal look more than like, realistic ice here.
Just curious, are you planning to do other ice/crystal variations, or using the one to scale and rotate?
Either way, it looks good, keep on keepin on
I also had made test with this technique on Shiva's shoe and horn aldready.
Might try to update those to see if I can bring it a bit closer to the type of shading I got going on the crystal, see how it looks.
@artstream I mean I could, making the crystal including all the test took like an hour or two, but not sure if needed? I don't think you can really tell that much that it's all the same crystal?
Will see when I do the final presentation
I updated the horn and shoes to have an effect that comes a little bit closer to the effect I went for with the crystals.
SInce I Don't know how long it will take before my rig will be done.
I decided to do some final ''T-posed'' shots. Just wanted to have some final shots made before the end of the year.
The beautyshots are still coming, they will, one day, I'm notorious (in my head) for often doing those much later (#jinx #ellie)
@Enalya Me toooo, can't wait to get my hand on the rig
@Aveon Glad you liked it
@Tomtegubbe I see you are back on a new account. Aside from her larger thighs I don't believe this model is even close from being chubby. She does have curls I guess. Sorry to hear you do not like her body or her makeup, it's all personnal choices and preferences I'm personally happy with
I love the make up and the hair ... just wow!
Can't wait to see the final beauty shots for her!
I'm not too familiar with Toolbag, but can you do some sort of parallax in there? Using parallax is a pretty common way for us environment guys to get some fake translucency/depth on ice. I would recommend that for the crystal, but I would think any ice build up on Shiva herself would be more frosty, and less glass-like.
I know the ice buildup on her is something you are aware of and are experimenting with. I think that will make or break the overall finished piece for me. Of course your work is fantastic and the sculpt, mesh turned out wonderful
Perhaps for me, the biggest standout is the fleshy skin tones. She looks warm, which is contradictory to her being a cold ice god. I believe you mentioned earlier in your thread that you were going for realistic skin tones, but maybe perhaps try modifying her skin a bit? Even if it was just more pale. Looking at pictures of people who are cold, their skin tends to get more pale when they are cold/freezing.
Great work, I look forward to seeing you finish this!