Ambitious Project? Who`s in?
polycounter lvl 6
Now that valve announced the new engine update with custom games, improved tools, and quality issue fixes, i got a neat idea which i`ll elaborate in a second.
So... we are a community. A large one for the matter... and we all have some experience with the 3d works, or concepts, or particles, some of us might even have map editing experience.
How about we start off a custom game map designed completely by this said community? I think it would be a great opportunity for the 3d-ers to make some "out of the box thinking" props/rocks/buildings/mobs, which would bring some freshness from the regular items;
The concept artist could work on backgrounds/map design/story line for the map and how it works and functions;
particle and dev guys could work on said things!
How are we planning to get organised? Like so:
A google drive is currently created with the sole purpose of serving as info, ideas, and in the near future work dump, where everybody that is on the team can have easy access to whatever file is necessary.
If needed, in the future we can create a skype group in which we can all chat at the same time or by turns.
If we gather enough people, and dedicate about 4-5 hours a week for this project, i think we can dish something out by the end of the summer or even faster, depending on how many we are.
I don`t consider myself the boss of this "operation", but a simple member, and organiser, with equal rights as any other.
This being a polycount "call", anyone that is interested an wants to actively participate is welcome at any time. we all know how much work is put into a single item, let alone a whole map with unique mechanics.
If anyone wants to quit, they can do it at any time. If you`re in, it doesn`t mean you are chained to this project till the end.
Credits will go to their respective owners. If someone made some artwork/3d/particle/etc. but then left the team, full credit for those materials will go to him/her.
The only thing we ask of those who join, is that they are serious, enthusiast, and responsible, and don`t just join to harass, steal ideas, or gloat.
This is the list of who signed up for participation:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uExHkgs8W2fuyoGM1nl-YhtRo3FTIGj1NwkaVjhizHM/edit?usp=sharing
Anyone who wants to join, just send me a Pm with your google email adress and i`ll add you to the drive
So... we are a community. A large one for the matter... and we all have some experience with the 3d works, or concepts, or particles, some of us might even have map editing experience.
How about we start off a custom game map designed completely by this said community? I think it would be a great opportunity for the 3d-ers to make some "out of the box thinking" props/rocks/buildings/mobs, which would bring some freshness from the regular items;
The concept artist could work on backgrounds/map design/story line for the map and how it works and functions;
particle and dev guys could work on said things!
How are we planning to get organised? Like so:
A google drive is currently created with the sole purpose of serving as info, ideas, and in the near future work dump, where everybody that is on the team can have easy access to whatever file is necessary.
If needed, in the future we can create a skype group in which we can all chat at the same time or by turns.
If we gather enough people, and dedicate about 4-5 hours a week for this project, i think we can dish something out by the end of the summer or even faster, depending on how many we are.
I don`t consider myself the boss of this "operation", but a simple member, and organiser, with equal rights as any other.
This being a polycount "call", anyone that is interested an wants to actively participate is welcome at any time. we all know how much work is put into a single item, let alone a whole map with unique mechanics.
If anyone wants to quit, they can do it at any time. If you`re in, it doesn`t mean you are chained to this project till the end.
Credits will go to their respective owners. If someone made some artwork/3d/particle/etc. but then left the team, full credit for those materials will go to him/her.
The only thing we ask of those who join, is that they are serious, enthusiast, and responsible, and don`t just join to harass, steal ideas, or gloat.
This is the list of who signed up for participation:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uExHkgs8W2fuyoGM1nl-YhtRo3FTIGj1NwkaVjhizHM/edit?usp=sharing
Anyone who wants to join, just send me a Pm with your google email adress and i`ll add you to the drive
Replies
the lore is quite a goldmine indeed. might work? but that means we will have to make a custom map for each hero/story in particular
not roasted pig but beacon !!! Btw it is more like a minigame to me .
Try to make it like 2v2 3v3 5v5 3v3v3. and ill make map for it :P
we need a place where we can establish a easier conversation.
P.S. I don't know what are the limitations about custom modes but, I can also do custom music and sfx instead of 3d.
ent i can help you with audio if needed too. i made some songs in FL studio a few years back
What's the plan on getting organized? What are we making?
Here is another thing,
will we use the new engine's workshop tools (probably-but then could we be able to use it when it is on beta)
1. a lore based co-op, which develops from each or some characters` lore, solo or in tandem. this one is the most original and allows a lot of freedom, but might be a bit harder to create.
2. a capture the something mode, everybody knows this kind and is a classic yet enjoyable if done right.
3. team based minigames. fun, diverse, random, chaotic, if done correctly it can get a lot of attention.
After we brain stormed for ideas, we will decide on one of them and then shape it into something polished.
How are we planning to get organised? Like so:
A google drive is currently created with the sole purpouse os serving as info, ideeas, and in the near future work dump, where everybody that is on the team can have easy acces to whatever file is necesary.
If needed, in the future we can create a skype group in which we can all chat at the same time or by turns.
If we gather enough people, and dedicate about 4-5 hours a week for this project, i think we can dish something out by the end of the summer or even faster, depending on how many we are.
I don`t consider myself the boss of this "operation", but a simple member, and organiser, with equal rights as any other.
This being a polycount "call", anyone that is interested an wants to actively participate is welcome at any time. we all know how much work is put into a single item, let alone a whole map with unique mechanics.
If anyone wants to quit, they can do it at any time. If you`re in, it doesn`t mean you are chained to this project till the end.
Tool wise, we haven`t decided yet.. i`d suggest the reborn tools, but i`m ok with the regular ones as well.
Credits will go to their respective owners. If someone made some artwork/3d/particle/etc. but then left the team, full credit for those materials will go to him/her.
The only thing we ask of those who join, is that they are serious, enthusiast, and responsible, and don`t just join to harass, steal ideas, or gloat.
So far only me and Ent have Officially joined the development team.
Appologies for the long read.
You're probably best to start with a list
We had a nice spreadsheet for that community chest event.
In my opinion, this would need to be a pretty complete project as a group. Not just a game mode but full content and mode.
1:game mode poll
2:list of skills (ie:mappers, modellers, scripters, concepts, particles, sound, textures, video)
3:setting (snow, desert, moon of Endor)
4:google group
(I'm sure more things could be listed)
I think it's pretty important to try and get at least one committed person in each category above.
I'd be interested in doing set pieces, maybe some little ambient creatures.
I was playing Warlock last night and was thinking it would be fun to play a golem and be able to spawn a warlock
excelent advice Baddcog, a spreadsheet already exists, and the other ones will follow soon. I think i`ll make the list public in an hour or two so that everybody can see who is in the project.
if this project gains enough valence, would there be any chance for it to get featured like the monthly competition?
to avoid any trolls or people that want to watch projects burn, i have made the list non editable by those who are not invited on the drive. If you want to write your name there, send me a pm with your g-mail address and i will add you
Game Mode : Payload
Need of skills :Mapping(Source mapping experience)/Modeling/Scripts(Lua coding)/Concept/Particles/Sound/Textures/Video(Need people who knows SFM)
Setting : like desert/forest/snow. or muti-combined environments/featured environment effects (ie: sandstorm)!
Game info ：
Just remade the tf2 classic game mode Payload.
Ill upload more ideas in few days.
and feel free to talk to me on steam : 30718815
I think this might be of interest to you. Our new tool 3D pen that can also solder, burn and cut is now on Kickstarter: [*http://bit.ly/3DSimoMini*]
I would be happy if you could share the idea if you like it, back us or even post your comment here to give us feedback.
Thank you!
video:*https://youtu.be/-7qZjPF2X_I
the ideea is based on the capture the something theme, combined with a payload stage at the end. Hope the sketch i made is speaking for itself, but yet again, it`s only a rough sketch made in 10-15 mins of brain teasing.
I think it`s about time we start polishing our concepts towards something more palpable.
After hundreds of years, some of the mad moon`s pieces still flew through space.... eventually one of the meteorites fell somewhere to the North/South of the main map Bases.....
The meteorite is composed of direstone and radiant ore alike. In an atempt to gain an advantage over the other side by weakening their ancient, both factions sent their best heroes and diggers to collect the precious gems, in order to charge them with magic and send them packing towards the enemy beacon, a direct power source for the Ancients.
Here`s the map details:
Each team has 1 designated mine spot, that is farther from their base and closer to their opponents` base. Thus mining there is more risky due to ambushes, but yields only faction based crystals.
There is a central node that contains both dire and radiant resources. This spot is where the main action happens as it is equally far from both teams, and is the main brawl area. We could make something like a digging machine there, and once every N seconds it could drop a Meteorite piece. The first team to grab it and bring it home safe gets 1 point.
Once the faction gets enough crystals, a cart/donkey/greevil/techies must be pushed into the rival beacon to "weaken" their ancient (WIN THE GAME!)
I think these "gems" could be exactly like the gem of true sight(without giving the true sight of course
But still i don't get the part why a cart must be pushed into the rival beacon.
Maybe we can change it like this;
in the map, there would be an only exit, and the first team to finish collecting their crystals to their base, will start carrying their crystals to the exit of this mining area by a cart. This exit should have equal distance to both sides, and i thought it like a tunnel. By the time one of the teams finish collecting enough crystals, Roshan will spawn on the entrance of the tunnel.(before this, there will be no roshan spawn/ or somehow hidden/invulnerable on the map) and in this tunnel, there would be lots of neutral creeps of some kind to spice the journey up a little bit.
I think the tracks should be offset to one side or other of mid.
Might be cool to have a bunch of greevils pushing the cart. But their animations are just screwing around (not pushing) until you come crack the whip.
Might even be able to tie it into heros on the cart like TF2. One hero can only get one grevvil to push. Slower than four heros and 4 greevils.
The screwing around ones might have to stay within a 100 units of cart, more heros near cart more greevils called to come play push anims.
I think that would be fairly easy to set in the response system in Hammer. By someone a little more technically advanced at that than myself.
Hero Stim on cart is additive>
4 greevils, one per cart corner (two pull anims, two push) (anims could be locked on cart root for alignment?)
If stim on cart is 1> greevil A is called to push (runs to cart root and plays push anim). Cart speed is set to 1.
If stim is 2>greevil A & B are called, etc...)
If no hero stim > greevils A,B,C,D play idle anims. Smoke cigars, pick nose.
Cart speed is set to 0.
And maybe greevils could be used to carry gems from the mine to the carts. They spawn at base and run to the mines, grab a rock and run back. You have to protect them? When one dies it just respawns back at base and starts again.
(The cart ones could be invincible, maybe a gold glow)
600-800 Unit area for heroes to stay in order to get the cart going ?
So theoretically, they act like couriers that have only one slot, and can only pick up gems/crystals. In this case, i think heroes shouldn't be allowed to carry those gems/crystals, but logically it is weird
Also what kind of hp do they have ? (like wards or some hero skills have 5 hits to destroy/ 11 hits to destroy etc. or normal 891hp like)
what happen to the gem when they die ?
Possibly some other greevil should pick it up ?
how many greevils a team should have (except the cart pusher greevils) ?
They probably respawn in a time when they die.
So i think the team should have a little bit control over those gem carrying greevils. and maybe even some customization.
As we do on the courier, sending them from less dangerous routes or when a teamfight broke in, make it stay behind our team etc.
Just got an idea while writing this,
you know we have "haste" on the couriers on the normal game, players could have full control on the greevils when they press that "haste" button so for few seconds, we can control exactly where that greevil can be, but when outside this time, the team could only have small control over it, like few buttons/skills to use (Q- get gem from main mine, W- get gem from enemy mine, E- Go back to base, R- Full control(10 seconds control/ 90 sec cooldown), T- Stop, G- Some other skill)
first i thougt of the same things... plus a few extras but that would be silly:
- a special item in shop for one person (the miner)
- point capture time.....
- random drop time...
BUT THIS: the courier crystal carrier. this is the real thing i had in mind.
A quick addition to the suggestion. we could make the terrain mountain-like, so there could be a higher than usual number of high grounds and narrow roads, with only the few main roads as flat surface.
Organisation wise: i think it would be good if we could all meet at some hour on skype or google hangouts or something. Anyone got any good interface we could use for more direct comunication?
Miner: Mines the rocks
Snatcher: steals rocks from opposing team
Attacker: Can attack any greevil(should be some balance to this guy tho or else he will be op)
Defender: Highest HP of all; in charge of defending cart (If killed, all of your rocks in your cart get transferred to the enemy?
Pusher: works with Defender but can only push the cart.
Seems more fun to be fighting/defending than to be hauling gems imo.
So it would be def/attack both sides until cart is full then it would be pushing cart.
And the greevils with gems when they die lose the gems. But you have a steady stream of ever respawning greevils (though you'd need a limit. depending on map size and whatnot, but I assume 20 or so).
And two mines which make it harder to shut down production fully.
Of course at this point numbers don't really matter, they can always be adjusted for 'balance' or whatever that is.
==================
@PrivacyEnt (specifically)
Probably the easiest way to deal with mining greevils is just to have a set patrol, spawn to mine to spawn to mine> loop. If they die they just respawn and start over.
(Should be very similar to regular creeps spawn/patrol)
Getting back to spawn they dump their inv and increase a counter.
A courier could probably be a very good base, though seeing inv shouldn't happen.
If they are coming b from mine they have a gem.
Possibly at game start they start spawning once every 5 sec until max number is reached at which point they just respawn on death.
A mining anim? Or just get to mine and pick up and leave?
Also, a game like this could possibly stalemate for long times when each team is killing others creeps but not def.
A failsafe to keep game moving could be creeps growing after a time period.
Then it gets hard to block and the focus would become def so your cart can move first.
Maybe 5 min micro creeps, then 5 min larger creeps...3-4 stages? At which point it should be pretty hard to stop them so cart will eventually fill up.
==================
@Swaggernaut,
I think the main issue with that is possibility of trolling.
If everyone has to protect greevils and push cart they'll work together better.
If you give players different roles people start fighting over that. Nobody wants to pick rocks, they want to fight...
I think that's why Valve did the payload. They got rid of the old school 'escort' mode because one person gets escort and can screw entire team.
regarding the carry-miners.we could have some slightly altered creep waves, that coul have every 3-5 spawns a miner. the greevil would go with the wave, wait while the other creeps fight, and when he reaches the dig site, he could have a 3-5 second mine animation then gather the gem. after that the miner-greevil would atempt to run back to base with the piece, thus scoring one point.
the creeps growing failsafe seems like a good idea. we could go with what the game already has: add one more creep to the wave every 10 minutes, or we could give the base a global buff that only empowers non-hero units, that gives +1 dmg every 3 minutes. Kinda like roshan`s devotion aura.
For the cart pushing stage, i was thinking it being the decisive stage of the game, we could focus more on the hero fighting for dominance rather than pushing the cart through waves of mobs. Shure we could have a few special mobs (maybe those dragonkin, or wyvern dragon models that valve never used them for the game) that would come and get involved in the heroes battling for pushing their cart to the end.
One more question. if we modify the "push the cart towards the enemy base to blow it up" concept, In wich direction do we make the cart go? of we go with the scheme i drew earlyer, the only logical solution would be to push it on diagonal. Or we could make some sort of ring around the whole map and make the carts go through there.
This was the first map idea that came to my mind, where the white blob is neutral crystal mine, red is dire base blue radiant. (paint FTW :poly142: )
The dark gray lines are the routes for the carts, and the purple was the exit(maybe bigger than that/ or the cart railways can meet earlier and went through a tunnel/ narrow canyon etc.)
The light gray lines are random routes to the crystal mine, of course the original would be more complex than this.
----
I think one of the core things this mode should have is teamplay. I agree with Baddcog at this point. 80% of the pub games begin like 4 carry insta lock team and you are the last one like what am i doing with my life
Anyway, to the game mode again...
About the post from Baddcog;
that spawn patrol thing is cool yes, and also if they do have a mining anim for when they are at the mine, it would be interesting to also make them channeling, so heroes can break the animation. (this mining channeling progress could be like 10-15 seconds)
----
Devotion Aura of roshan for greevils sounds good, because i mean they must get stronger to get along with heroes...
Also like Tf2 it gets the team fights around the carts closer together. So teams fight each other as carts 'pass'.
I guess having the carts converge would too at the end, but only if both carts were loaded and close.
But why would they be pushing it to the same spot? What is there? Can it blow up?
I think the explosion is a good round end, otherwise it might feel lackluster.
Visually I think tracks are weird. I know they make a nice marker for where the carts going, but in TF2 it always seemed odd that the team had tracks set up to their base so it could be exploded.
I think we could just have dirt paths/two tracks through grass , etc...
================
rambling:
cart: several models to 'load'. (empty, 1/4 full, half?) Or just add gem models onto base cart (might be buggy with pyhsics?)
Is it because we destroy the base via these crystals and prevent them from doing a "thing"?
--
The idea of the converging railroads come from this,
Thought it like both teams are trying to finish a cart, yes. But when a team reaches certain amount of crystals, the other team's main goal is changed, and it is now to destroy the enemy cart. So there will be only one cart at a time. And it is decided by that the team that collects the 50 crystals first, starts to move the cart.
Well, in TF2, the carts are filled with explosives, in contrast we have precious gems here to protect. So why kaboom ?
I thought that pink part as a narrow tunnel which is an area for neutral camps to spawn, and maybe even rosh.
--
Dirt paths seems more reasonable in the doto era
And i think it would be hard and unnecessary to put gem models onto cart
as you say, 4 models looks fine, empty, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full.
i like the dirt paths as well.
S for the blowing up, i was thinking that instead of a regular boom, we could have a giant energy source sweeping throught the battlefield from the enemy beacon. similar to how the wraith king`s ult animation works. or if anyone remembers how the wraith throne was activated during the wraithnight event
Reverses polarity , whatevs...
Then an energy source in team color would fit perfectly.
But I think No Pie's map does a better job of keeping things more centralized. PrivacyEnt's map keeps team more seperated by sides.
==========
Here's a map edit:
Just some ideas...
Green paths are greevils pathways, patrols.
Purple everywhere heros can go (major paths not include jungl)
ss:secret shop
Point A is radiant safe mine on high ground.
Point B is dangerous shared mid
Point C is high ground for dire.
Guess the carts could go straight through mid (around the mine in center of course.)
I think it's best to have a PLR (payload Race). Both teams have a chance to win the whole time.
If you have only the first cart filled go, then at mid game one team has a chance to win or lose and the other team only has a chance to lose or lose worse.
It seals the deal for a comeback that can't happen.
(visually I don't think we need a 'river', though the mid ground could be in a canyon. Down to the mines.
==============
Any preferences on settings, desert might be cool. Yellowish rocks on radiant and grey in dire?>
especially the map.
And it is also good to swap it to payload race, so even a team loses, in the early, they can make a comeback.
Also +1 to canyon from me.
Isn't desert terrain more looks like a tropic area especially in radiant side
(in the photo valve put in the compendium // or from here http://gamebrott.com/quick-look-dota-2-desert-terrain/ )
It looks cool i think, and would be good to create a feeling that this mode is not happening near the original map.
Would still be cool to have custom stuff but that can take care of most of it.
I watched a few tutorials, and i remembered some of the tricks i knew from tf2 maping. I can start blocking out the map in hammer, although i don`t know the exact proportions and stuff.
I think the overall size is probably good. You can probably find the stair model and use that for height differences, etc..
Don't worry about displacements until the base map layout is tested.
So it seems that we are ready to rock !
Should we make a new sheet at googledocs to sum up and rewrite all those ideas ?
I think the doc could grow fairly large. I started trying to type something out but got distracted.
Probably be good to get a list of headers for all the main stuff and fill in as needed?
this doesn't have to be used, just what I see we need to keep track of/expand on:
*Team: contributors, skills..
*Map type: brief explanation (def/attack stage (loading cart, help creeps) , PLR stage..push cart/stop cart)
*Setting: Desert
*Required Checklist:
-scripts
-models
-anims
-particles
-map
-textures
-alpha testing (base map terrain-not worried textures, models etc..) Does the gameplay work out in size/height/times- could use terrain blocks as placeholders for trees, major obstacles)
-beta testing,base terrain/timing OK. Now textures, models (jungle), etc..
final tweaking on times, jungle paths, etc.. make sure custom content package correctly)
=========
this didn't come up, may or may not be needed. Do we want creeps camps/ancients anywhere?
I'd assume the game time should be aimed at maybe 20-30 minutes? 10-15 for cart load?
So if cart is ready to go in 10 min, would there be time for jungling.
This is the one thing we really can't pin down until the map is set up and can be tested. Timing is tricky but really the balance to the game.
If the time is too short, players like pudge will rule. If it's too long junglers could rule it.
The gameplay will probably be more fighting right off the bat I assume than a regular match. Though it still requires early defense and build up.
Major difference to stock game is you can't rush the push. Cart HAS to be loaded.
(regular game you can start on tower push right away if you want).
Though you can rush harrass other team.
Also, 5v5? 4v4? Probably best to test with different amounts of players.
===============
Team set-up: Ponderings on how game plays out:
IF:
One player watches creeps back and forth from spawn to mine.
One player for side mine.
One player attacks other teams creeps
One player ...
--In TF2 you can never tell whats going on, but there are also 12-30 players roaming. All full power all the time. Sometimes 5 people get on cart, sometimes none.
For dota, teams still level up????
And if only 4-5 players on team they need more focus than tf2.
Good Point. or we can make the cart can prove extra XP or mana/hp reg?
I think at least there should be jungle camps, Because heroes need to level up and need gold.
Maybe the first 3-5 sets of greevils are guarded by lane creeps and attacked by enemy lane creeps, so when the heroes are on their way to the mine could earn some exp and gold ?
that gives me an ideea. we could make some infinite mob spawners on the route to the central mine spot. something like a kobold hole, similar to wraith night kobolds, from where every 15 seconds or so, 1-2 weak kobolds would pop up and head toward the creep waves. that way, there is a chance to weaken the creeps before the main clash, and to give some bonus xp and gold to heroes. we could have like 2 spawnpoints before the center.
i think the side paths should remain clear of any distractions because that`s their point: farther away, assured income if mined, but more dangerous and susceptible to enemy ambushes.
No. i mean you can close to the cart. and earn the XP. and slow reg.mana/hp. like valve's custom map.