I have to admit, I wasn't expecting the low-poly modeling additions, that should make making base meshes a lot easier. I really liked the look of the polygroup painting, and the fact that the action line is now centered to the tool it's drawn on, that should make using the thing easier (hopefully).
The dynamic subdivision is also a really nice touch.
So we're getting one more 32-bit version of Z, then Zb5 which will be 64-bit. Nice.
I was impressed. Really loving to addition of low poly base building tools, and the ability to work within subdivision levels more fluently. I also liked the centered transpose tool, as it's kind of a butt to work with currently lol.
And for those asking, 4r7 will have a full 32-bit release AND a free 64-bit beta release in the same package. Zbrush 5 will be only 64-bit.
This is what ive been wanting for the last 3 years..
Ive longed for this. CRIED FOR THIS EVERY NIGHT!
Bitched and wined for this as I resetup GoZ's path to maya for the 9th time.
And I missed the stream . Cant wait for them youtube videos to pop up a few weeks from now
The one thing I never wanted zbrush to have is traditional poly modeling tools. I feel like adding basic tools already done better and more thoroughly in other apps is just a distraction from doing what zbrush has been so good at: innovating stuff we didn't know we needed.
I have 20 apps that already do this stuff, I use zbrush because it's so good after that step. I gain nothing from pixo adding tools for use earlier in the pipe, when the tool that they make excels at doing stuff that can't be done traditionally.
so they have
-extrude
-split
-bevel
-inset
-bridge
and can't remember the rest...
Quite a large number of buttons in the palette for sure. Though they really gotta update the UI in a new user friendly way for sure with so many features at this point. Hopefully Sculptris will be another part of their sneak peeks in the next 2 days. Plus as awesome as having poly modeling tools in zbrush is. The lack of a traditional manipulator handle gizmo isn't doing it justice very well for me as an artist in the short-term. Because I want absolute control when it comes to traditional modeling methods. Not a transpose tool only. Give me options pixologic! :P
The one thing I never wanted zbrush to have is traditional poly modeling tools. I feel like adding basic tools already done better and more thoroughly in other apps is just a distraction from doing what zbrush has been so good at: innovating stuff we didn't know we needed.
Wait, you don't want/need poly modeling tools in Zbrush, but Pixologic is really good at putting stuff in Zbrush we didn't know we needed?
The one thing I never wanted zbrush to have is traditional poly modeling tools. I feel like adding basic tools already done better and more thoroughly in other apps is just a distraction from doing what zbrush has been so good at: innovating stuff we didn't know we needed.
I have 20 apps that already do this stuff, I use zbrush because it's so good after that step. I gain nothing from pixo adding tools for use earlier in the pipe, when the tool that they make excels at doing stuff that can't be done traditionally.
I'll buy it because it's 64 bit though.
+1
I'm not giving them anymore money though till they provide some production ready tools for dealing with topology and UV's as well as sorting out the myriad of bugs that plague the internal handling of UV's from other packages. I had to buy 3dCoat to deal with the sculpts from Zbrush, I've started sculpting with it and as it turns out, it's actually pretty damn good at it. Better than Zbrush in some areas.
Oh well two more days, maybe they will have something a little more innovative to show.
Zbrush is so amazing because pixologic gives us new, innovative tools.
This update is just adding tools we already have in other programs into zbrush. And the way zbrush is set up, they are having to shoehorn these tools in.
Why reproduce functionality we already have? That's not where their strength is. The only reason people are happy about it is because people would rather wait for a program they know and use to add functions that other programs are already doing better, rather than learn a new program. I find it very strange.
Zbrush is so amazing because pixologic gives us new, innovative tools.
This update is just adding tools we already have in other programs into zbrush. And the way zbrush is set up, they are having to shoehorn these tools in.
Why reproduce functionality we already have? That's not where their strength is. The only reason people are happy about it is because people would rather wait for a program they know and use to add functions that other programs are already doing better, rather than learn a new program. I find it very strange.
I dunno, it just looked incredibly fast and seemed to produce some nice topology. I do think the UI seemed a bit strange however, everything seemed like magic, there was no logical "flow".
ysalex
I believe you have a point. I'm personally very excited to have polymodelling tools that make any sense at all in Zbrush, because it will make my workflow (as well as some friends) much smoother. And that's awesome.
I think not having these kinds of tools was a problem, and impacting on the possible workflows inside the program. So adding them is a good thing. If they go on to not show any other features or improvements to either zbrush, the tools, or the interface, then your point will be very, very valid... Possibly even a little worrying. But as it stands, we've got the whole weekend to see if that's the case, so I think everyone should hold their judgement.
Hoping ZB5 will be the true cake to receive. The poly tools are a great addition, but so far they seem too basic in comparison to the likes of what is already available in packages like Maya, Modo, & Max, etc.
That was maybe fast for something like maya, but definitely not fast compared to max or Modo or silo, and it didn't look particularly intuitive. zbrush ui is very different from traditional modeling programs because it is a very different tool and does it's own thing in a very different way. Trying to add the functionality of those traditional tools into zbrush is going to force a lot of shoehorning.
Zbrush is so amazing because pixologic gives us new, innovative tools.
This update is just adding tools we already have in other programs into zbrush. And the way zbrush is set up, they are having to shoehorn these tools in.
Why reproduce functionality we already have? That's not where their strength is. The only reason people are happy about it is because people would rather wait for a program they know and use to add functions that other programs are already doing better, rather than learn a new program. I find it very strange.
I like to do everything in one package myself. Plus some of us don't already have those tools.
ysalex
I believe you have a point. I'm personally very excited to have polymodelling tools that make any sense at all in Zbrush, because it will make my workflow (as well as some friends) much smoother. And that's awesome.
I think not having these kinds of tools was a problem, and impacting on the possible workflows inside the program. So adding them is a good thing. If they go on to not show any other features or improvements to either zbrush, the tools, or the interface, then your point will be very, very valid... Possibly even a little worrying. But as it stands, we've got the whole weekend to see if that's the case, so I think everyone should hold their judgement.
...It is seriously a concern, though.
I don't see how it is a problem at all, you have a 1000 programs that do this stuff better, faster, more intuitively (from what I saw).
I cannot imagine waiting for zbrush to have these tools over just spending a week learning a new program that has had this functionality forever and a ton more.
I kinda agree with Ysalex here. I mean, it's not like having the option to do it in Zbrush is bad, but I, too, was hoping for something that only ZBrush does, as is usually the case. Something that makes it unique.
As others have pointed out, it lacks the precision that at least I would need for environment art.
It's cute, though
I think not having these kinds of tools was a problem, and impacting on the possible workflows inside the program. So adding them is a good thing. If they go on to not show any other features or improvements to either zbrush, the tools, or the interface, then your point will be very, very valid... Possibly even a little worrying. But as it stands, we've got the whole weekend to see if that's the case, so I think everyone should hold their judgement.
...It is seriously a concern, though.
If Pixologic didn't have a history of adding features that don't amount to anything (zsketch), are totally half-assed (clip curves, and curves in general) and broke other long standing workflows and features (dynamesh, IMM, panel loops, group loops) then maybe I could be a little more excited about what new workflows might be possible. Instead I'm worried about what hoops to jump through these basic polygon modeling tools will add to the existing workflows inside Zbrush.
I like to do everything in one package myself. Plus some of us don't already have those tools.
Not me. I hated the days of one package programs, when it was max or maya for modeling, texturing, animation and rendering. We moved away from that because the development cycles took forever and were just incremental in each area rather than the leaps that single function tools like keyshot, substance, zbrush, knald etc take - plus everything in one package is bloated and slow.
I love the era of single function tools. It makes the process faster and more powerful. Learning a new program takes almost no time at all, and is an important skill for artists to have. If you wait around for the one program you do know to add all the tools you want, even if those tools aren't appropriate to that environment, you might feel like your gonna be left behind.
I wasn't implying this was anything like game changing, here, only saying that I'd rather have it than not.
And that's purely personal, because as of my last few projects I've been doing a lot of flicking between Maya and Zbrush, most of which was entirely avoidable if Zbrush had some really basic functions in the traditional modelling department. Which this seems to cover well.
Thus, I look at this reasonably positively for a day one announcement. That's all.
That was maybe fast for something like maya, but definitely not fast compared to max or Modo or silo, and it didn't look particularly intuitive. zbrush ui is very different from traditional modeling programs because it is a very different tool and does it's own thing in a very different way. Trying to add the functionality of those traditional tools into zbrush is going to force a lot of shoehorning.
These complaints are childish. This update opens more options for the artist, some people are software nerds others are just as fast and resourceful with 2 to 3 apps. Is not going to affect your workflow so keep using your other apps, other folks would want to tackle most of the workload from start in zbrush. Simple don't like it don't use it. Not everyone has the same workflow and maybe others are looking for change.
Personally, I would really love it if Zbrush focused on doing the things it does best and improving on those aspects. Right now with the subd modeling it is providing what other programs already do with what seems to me to be less precision.
I would love it if the workflow was more focused on game creation integration and less illustration/rendering. But that's a personal preference.
Overall, I want to see some improvement on the existing tools that make zbrush so powerful and unique. I'd rather see something that other programs don't or can't do. There is still a few days left so I hope to see some more exciting tools that have a real impact on my workflow.
I'm not giving them anymore money though till they provide some production ready tools for dealing with topology and UV's as well as sorting out the myriad of bugs that plague the internal handling of UV's from other packages. I had to buy 3dCoat to deal with the sculpts from Zbrush, I've started sculpting with it and as it turns out, it's actually pretty damn good at it. Better than Zbrush in some areas.
Oh well two more days, maybe they will have something a little more innovative to show.
Judging by that, you've never ever given them money.
Since you know, free updates once you have a license...
I am happy about these tools but I do agree I was wanting more, but it isn't over yet. Really hoping for texture painting/retopo/better uv mapping. Just really an easier workflow to a video game engine.
The one thing I never wanted zbrush to have is traditional poly modeling tools. I feel like adding basic tools already done better and more thoroughly in other apps is just a distraction from doing what zbrush has been so good at: innovating stuff we didn't know we needed.
I have 20 apps that already do this stuff, I use zbrush because it's so good after that step. I gain nothing from pixo adding tools for use earlier in the pipe, when the tool that they make excels at doing stuff that can't be done traditionally.
I'll buy it because it's 64 bit though.
I also agree with ysalex on this. Why try to implement something other traditional 3D modeling apps already excel at. I was excited at first at how fast the poly modeling tools were being performed but it still lacks precision as others have mentioned. Is Pixologic tying to take a share off of the Arch viz business here?
I was hoping that they would show more feautures other than showing off their new efficient poly modeling tools which other 3D apps already have. I was like get on with this already and move on. It felt like they were showing poly modeling 101 for beginners who have no idea how to poly model and it lingered for far too long. So I basically waited the whole entire day just to see a faster version of existing poly modeling tools that traditional 3D modeling apps have minus the precision. Great now we can poly model a complex looking grenade in half the time it takes for traditional poly modeling :poly142:!
I was waiting for them to actually move on and at least take a hint at maybe a new revamped layering system, subtool folders, and new texturing feautures. Well there's 2 more days of them showing some more stuff and hopefully they will reveal some more on the coming days.
I really dont care about any other feature other than it should be 64 bit, Projection based map baking, better layering and more than 8 million polys for any subtool. Geometry HD is IMHO crap.
After reading comments, I think one point particularly is missing: Pixologic will give the next r7 with those new tools just as a free upgrade, which isn't so bad, right? I mean it's not like other big companies do making you PAY for the new version with, yeap, new tools and feature, but with new bugs with the previous ones.
What you do with those tools is totally up to you.
If you listened the Legacy guys in the beginning of the Summit, you should have learnt a lot of things about speed, concept and human behaviour about the film industry that will put those tools in a totally different light.
As everybody knows, ZBrush isn't an engineering tool, have you ever read a sculpting manual, ancient or modern, where it says: so now put the cisel here at 15,73° to your left and give a shot with the hammer of 3,4Kg?
ZBrush is freedom like is sculpting, drawing and painting, so it gives you the same approach to explore and to expand an idea, an asset, a project in a fast way, without beeing constrained to insert numeric values and whatever simply turns off creativity.
Let's have the new version and we will see what will happen.
My two cents.
P.S. If they also put the polypaint for lowpoly, I'll get wet!
That was maybe fast for something like maya, but definitely not fast compared to max or Modo or silo, and it didn't look particularly intuitive. zbrush ui is very different from traditional modeling programs because it is a very different tool and does it's own thing in a very different way. Trying to add the functionality of those traditional tools into zbrush is going to force a lot of shoehorning.
Remember that it was a stage demo. He wasn't trying to go as fast as he could, he was showing off the features. Modo doesn't look particularly fast in stage demos either ... but watch a Tor Frick stream and it's a very different picture.
I am maybe not as psyched as I should be because on the whole zbrush already does what i want it to do. nice to have uprades, but i am worried they force so many features in to it, that it becomes a big chuggy
i only used it for sculpting and maybe a little bit of polypaint
Replies
Yup...it's a Modo killer.
The dynamic subdivision is also a really nice touch.
So we're getting one more 32-bit version of Z, then Zb5 which will be 64-bit. Nice.
looks like there will be a "beta-ish" x64 version of 4r7 along side the x32
but zbrush 5 will be x64 only
They'll be available at a later time (no timeframe).
The quad boolean subtract at the beginning was interesting. Minecraft brush?
And for those asking, 4r7 will have a full 32-bit release AND a free 64-bit beta release in the same package. Zbrush 5 will be only 64-bit.
If they're adding modelling tools... hopefully IMM brushes will save UVs now? /crossfingers
This is what ive been wanting for the last 3 years..
Ive longed for this. CRIED FOR THIS EVERY NIGHT!
Bitched and wined for this as I resetup GoZ's path to maya for the 9th time.
And I missed the stream
I have 20 apps that already do this stuff, I use zbrush because it's so good after that step. I gain nothing from pixo adding tools for use earlier in the pipe, when the tool that they make excels at doing stuff that can't be done traditionally.
I'll buy it because it's 64 bit though.
-extrude
-split
-bevel
-inset
-bridge
and can't remember the rest...
Quite a large number of buttons in the palette for sure. Though they really gotta update the UI in a new user friendly way for sure with so many features at this point. Hopefully Sculptris will be another part of their sneak peeks in the next 2 days. Plus as awesome as having poly modeling tools in zbrush is. The lack of a traditional manipulator handle gizmo isn't doing it justice very well for me as an artist in the short-term. Because I want absolute control when it comes to traditional modeling methods. Not a transpose tool only. Give me options pixologic! :P
Wait, you don't want/need poly modeling tools in Zbrush, but Pixologic is really good at putting stuff in Zbrush we didn't know we needed?
+1
I'm not giving them anymore money though till they provide some production ready tools for dealing with topology and UV's as well as sorting out the myriad of bugs that plague the internal handling of UV's from other packages. I had to buy 3dCoat to deal with the sculpts from Zbrush, I've started sculpting with it and as it turns out, it's actually pretty damn good at it. Better than Zbrush in some areas.
Oh well two more days, maybe they will have something a little more innovative to show.
Zbrush is so amazing because pixologic gives us new, innovative tools.
This update is just adding tools we already have in other programs into zbrush. And the way zbrush is set up, they are having to shoehorn these tools in.
Why reproduce functionality we already have? That's not where their strength is. The only reason people are happy about it is because people would rather wait for a program they know and use to add functions that other programs are already doing better, rather than learn a new program. I find it very strange.
I dunno, it just looked incredibly fast and seemed to produce some nice topology. I do think the UI seemed a bit strange however, everything seemed like magic, there was no logical "flow".
I believe you have a point. I'm personally very excited to have polymodelling tools that make any sense at all in Zbrush, because it will make my workflow (as well as some friends) much smoother. And that's awesome.
I think not having these kinds of tools was a problem, and impacting on the possible workflows inside the program. So adding them is a good thing. If they go on to not show any other features or improvements to either zbrush, the tools, or the interface, then your point will be very, very valid... Possibly even a little worrying. But as it stands, we've got the whole weekend to see if that's the case, so I think everyone should hold their judgement.
...It is seriously a concern, though.
I like to do everything in one package myself. Plus some of us don't already have those tools.
I don't see how it is a problem at all, you have a 1000 programs that do this stuff better, faster, more intuitively (from what I saw).
I cannot imagine waiting for zbrush to have these tools over just spending a week learning a new program that has had this functionality forever and a ton more.
You could download wings3d for free and have this +10x the functionality for free.
As others have pointed out, it lacks the precision that at least I would need for environment art.
It's cute, though
If Pixologic didn't have a history of adding features that don't amount to anything (zsketch), are totally half-assed (clip curves, and curves in general) and broke other long standing workflows and features (dynamesh, IMM, panel loops, group loops) then maybe I could be a little more excited about what new workflows might be possible. Instead I'm worried about what hoops to jump through these basic polygon modeling tools will add to the existing workflows inside Zbrush.
Not me. I hated the days of one package programs, when it was max or maya for modeling, texturing, animation and rendering. We moved away from that because the development cycles took forever and were just incremental in each area rather than the leaps that single function tools like keyshot, substance, zbrush, knald etc take - plus everything in one package is bloated and slow.
I love the era of single function tools. It makes the process faster and more powerful. Learning a new program takes almost no time at all, and is an important skill for artists to have. If you wait around for the one program you do know to add all the tools you want, even if those tools aren't appropriate to that environment, you might feel like your gonna be left behind.
And that's purely personal, because as of my last few projects I've been doing a lot of flicking between Maya and Zbrush, most of which was entirely avoidable if Zbrush had some really basic functions in the traditional modelling department. Which this seems to cover well.
Thus, I look at this reasonably positively for a day one announcement. That's all.
These complaints are childish. This update opens more options for the artist, some people are software nerds others are just as fast and resourceful with 2 to 3 apps. Is not going to affect your workflow so keep using your other apps, other folks would want to tackle most of the workload from start in zbrush. Simple don't like it don't use it. Not everyone has the same workflow and maybe others are looking for change.
I would love it if the workflow was more focused on game creation integration and less illustration/rendering. But that's a personal preference.
Overall, I want to see some improvement on the existing tools that make zbrush so powerful and unique. I'd rather see something that other programs don't or can't do. There is still a few days left so I hope to see some more exciting tools that have a real impact on my workflow.
Judging by that, you've never ever given them money.
Since you know, free updates once you have a license...
I also agree with ysalex on this. Why try to implement something other traditional 3D modeling apps already excel at. I was excited at first at how fast the poly modeling tools were being performed but it still lacks precision as others have mentioned. Is Pixologic tying to take a share off of the Arch viz business here?
I was hoping that they would show more feautures other than showing off their new efficient poly modeling tools which other 3D apps already have. I was like get on with this already and move on. It felt like they were showing poly modeling 101 for beginners who have no idea how to poly model and it lingered for far too long. So I basically waited the whole entire day just to see a faster version of existing poly modeling tools that traditional 3D modeling apps have minus the precision. Great now we can poly model a complex looking grenade in half the time it takes for traditional poly modeling :poly142:!
I was waiting for them to actually move on and at least take a hint at maybe a new revamped layering system, subtool folders, and new texturing feautures. Well there's 2 more days of them showing some more stuff and hopefully they will reveal some more on the coming days.
Better than nothing I guess
What you do with those tools is totally up to you.
If you listened the Legacy guys in the beginning of the Summit, you should have learnt a lot of things about speed, concept and human behaviour about the film industry that will put those tools in a totally different light.
As everybody knows, ZBrush isn't an engineering tool, have you ever read a sculpting manual, ancient or modern, where it says: so now put the cisel here at 15,73° to your left and give a shot with the hammer of 3,4Kg?
ZBrush is freedom like is sculpting, drawing and painting, so it gives you the same approach to explore and to expand an idea, an asset, a project in a fast way, without beeing constrained to insert numeric values and whatever simply turns off creativity.
Let's have the new version and we will see what will happen.
My two cents.
P.S. If they also put the polypaint for lowpoly, I'll get wet!
Remember that it was a stage demo. He wasn't trying to go as fast as he could, he was showing off the features. Modo doesn't look particularly fast in stage demos either ... but watch a Tor Frick stream and it's a very different picture.
i only used it for sculpting and maybe a little bit of polypaint