BagelHero's 2D Improvement Thread (2017~2021 Recap)
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Sorry for any broken images or weird loading in this thread, it's... hard to keep this thread maintained. Id like to do another recap that covers the break in posts though.
Because as I was learning to sculpt, I forgot how to draw. :poly136:
I'm frustrated. I feel like I'm stuck with my 2D, and it's super demotivating. I don't know where to go after sketching something out and I haven't done any finished pieces in months, all my concept work for myself has been rough sketches and nothing more.
The plan is to pick up some recent sketches and try to take them through to a stage where I feel they're kind of "finished", instead of sitting in unpolished limbo. I always get stuck making an attempt to work through the anguish and hate for the piece when I look at it and it's not where I feel it should be.
Crits would be incredible. I'd seriously appreciate anyone taking some time out of their day to tell me what's up. Suggestions on how to get past the feeling that there's no point working on a piece because it will never be good enough would be appreciated too.
Blah blah blah, I talk too much, here's art.
For reference, I started from this sketch I've been pushing myself to do something with for a few weeks:
http://i.imgbox.com/W7NYy2dr.png
http://i.imgbox.com/EKkuWQhS.png
(Side note, not going to be able to dedicate a huge chunk of my time on this until after Petrol/Blood, but at the point when that's finished I'm going to schedule my work out so it's about half/half portfolio pieces to furthering skills, and working my 2D back up to scratch is the first thing on the "skills" list.)
Replies
You seem really down about your artwork! You should turn that around, every image you make will be moving you forward & the one you posted above is well on its way.
I think you maybe need to reconsider what 'good enough' means. When I ask myself that question it is more to do with 'Have I learn't something doing this image', 'Have I studied something and executed it better than I have before' I think if you hang all your hopes on every image becoming a flawless portfolio piece you'll strangle yourself.
I don't think you have a million miles to go on the image you posted. Maybe work on the rocks and the foliage, and tidy up your rendering a little on the body. Maybe re-look at the anatomy on her left arm. Try pushing your values on the rocks a little. I think if you include some blue-ish shadows around it could make thing pop a little more.
Regarding the level of 'polish' or 'finished-ness', and this may be a personal thing, but I put that down more to is the image communicating everything that I need it to, rather than is it rendered in 100% detail all over.
- J
Thanks for the encouragement. Giving "good enough" a good think over might be a good idea.
I'll be giving the rendering a once over, and I'll push and pull some values while I'm at it.
Two Listen hit me up outside of the thread and gave me some awesome crit and direction, as such I've re-thought the colors and composition.
Not perfect by any means (and I really, really need to fix her right boob, it is glaring at me), but I think this piece has almost served its purpose. Once I push myself with rendering, I'm gonna call it "done".
I've figured out that I need to pay attention rather than become complacent with how things are. That was it, really. Well, that, and I need to do some material studies, lol.
Going to pick something that doesn't need a full re-working for my next painting, I think. I can see a lot wrong with this, but I'd be better off starting from scratch with all of its problems in mind, than trying to keep working it when it's kind of fundamentally broken.
I'm interested to see what more you do with this one, but also don't think it's a bad idea to leave it for awhile and try to start something else. It can be a lot of fun to work on a painting, run away with what you've learned from it, and then come back a ways down the line and redo it. Makes for a nice way to see your progress.
Keep going and good luck. :thumbup:
Thanks.
Possibly too purple now, but I am considering this done. I'll re-visit it one day.
Onto the next thing (unless someone really insists otherwise)!
...After cramming for Petrol/Blood because I am 2 weeks behind schedule. Yeah. Whoo.
Hey, thanks man.
Defunct
Yeah, just gotta work through it.
EDIT: of course as soon as I post it I see all the errors I quickly edited some of them out:
Old one: http://i.imgbox.com/2dw0VG8h.png
Quick sketch for today, no projects or anything right now. Still recovering from doing a 30-something hour stint on my PETROL/BLOOD submission, only to find out DDO wouldn't work on my comp. So it's nice to just do something small. I'll try to start a new 2D project sometime towards the end of the week.
Hey, thanks.
I do not know what I'm doing. But this is my next project. Having a little trouble finding direction, and I'm just kinda futzing about right now. Might go and design the guy in the picture and come back to it, because I didn't think it out too much and I'm regretting it.
As per usual, C&C, opinions, feedback in general would be appreciated, though not sure if there's much to be said at this point. I'm posting largely in part so I don't give up on it. :poly142:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/29brg42kj1vr0ja/constrast.png?dl=0
Play with the values/light to put empasis on a part of the painting, in this case the face, which was nicely done.
Also, the contrast could be pushed just a bit more to make the image pop out.
A suggestion would be to look at really bad ass art, for example; blizzard official art, and study them. Focus on what is making them successful and apply that to you art. One step at a time.
Good luck
Thanks! I have no intentions of giving up, really, I just struggle with finishing separate pieces. Thank you, again, for the paintover. I don't know what's up with my eye for contrast right now, but I'll make sure to fix it for future paintings, and I'll do a little more pushing for this one before I put it up anywhere.
I'll definitely study some more art, too.
Slugging along slowly, trying to add more context because 9/10 I draw people floating in blank space.
Pretty obvious I didn't work at all on the main figure, because I did end up getting lost like I thought I would. Did a super quick concept to make sure I know where I'm going.
Thanks, man, it means a lot. Trying my best to just push through.
Okay, so. I did a pass over this specifically to try and stop my values being shite and flat, and added in the sketch for the new design + started his face before my tablet driver conked out. I'll do some more tomorrow.
By the way ,you are doing great ,keep going on~
Old version for reference.
With this, I'm getting revved up to take on an old character project I started like... mid-year. About a week after I did my little cockroach character. I dropped him in favor of polishing the Roach instead because he was intended for a school assignment, but I'm picking him back up. I have a few illusts of him I'd like to redo and cleanup, so that'll probably weave in with this thread a bit as well. Hopefully, anyways.
I still need to finish my Crab guy project before I can really dig into this one, though. Discipline and all that...
Thanks for the encouragement, Stinkhorse &
negiman.
So I've not been drawing other than the doodles I do at work and for work, pushed myself during lunchbreak today to just do something that makes me happy and doesn't frustrate me; gesture drawing! Pretty rusty but hey, whatever. Beats trying to draw from my imagination right now.
Had some empty space, so I filled it with other random doodles. Also attempted some photoref heads and i am very bad at that apparently.
How do you render metal? I just have no idea where to even start.
I'll probably be moving on to textures/patterns and a color pass next.
I would say overall the old image seemed like the you wanted to paint a faun but ended up adding the background as an afterthought. I personally am trying to improve on this as well so what really helped me was to develop an idea/narrative/story that I would want to convey through the illustration.
Somethings I changed was the whole lighting scenario to give it more of a focal point. Your first image felt empty and spacious so to continue the framing element that you had I added a little more trees in the distance and two midground trees. For the story maybe instead of the faun staring at the user, I gave her bird to focus on instead.
Hope this helps, if not please disregard :P
I have a history of doing sequential art as a hobby, so it's not like I don't know how to come up with a nice little scene or panel that tells a story through visual elements, but I do have a lot of trouble keeping that in mind as I sketch and paint for sketching and painting's sake. I tend to just draw whatever, then try to 'finish' that rather than try to craft an illustration properly. Maybe I might have more luck finishing those things if what I drew ever had a point.
I'll try to... uh, illustrate my illustrations more thoughtfully, I don't know why I think I can just pack my brain in my pocket when I paint. For right this moment, I'm retreating back into my comfort zone with the character design (where I can just draw a character posing in a room, and just focus on the rendering). I need a bit of a rest.
Thanks again.
Aaaand, for the sake of my sanity, I want to say this is finished. However, I'm not really feeling the color schemes here (I ripped them from the last character I did in this 'series' since they're both intended to be 'NPC' archetypes), but she doesn't have the same civilian vibe so I'm going to go back and revise the colors to try and go for something a bit more iconic. Got some ideas already, and it shouldn't take too long.
Though this is clearly still at a block out stage, does this still look like I just pasted a character on top of a scene? I think I might be starting to get a handle on where I'm going wrong so I'd like a confirmation.
Thanks for your input. Good things to think about and keep in mind.
I may as well just finish this one since I started it, rather than kinda just stopping. At least I'm not really stressing out about this one, it's just kinda relaxing.
Hey, thanks a bunch! Means a lot.
Update. I changed a fair bit. If anything stands out as a stupid idea, feel free to call me out-- I am just experimenting. Also, questionable composition-- Is that light from the right the worst idea ever or no? I'm trying to balance out the mirror and candles... I might add more candles on the floor and on the pile of... whatever's on the right to explain the light source, now that I'm looking at it... And I might brighten the face up a little, too. >>;
I did a sketchy thing. The values are all weird and I don't like it very much (I might do a quick fix later). Bleh.
I wanted to do some more on this after reading your post, so I did. More concept/idea/lines for comfort and clarity. Apparently this is a Destiny fan character. Civilian class, NPC, Cult follower (but not the leader you would speak with when leveling/purchasing stuff with marks).
I'll start up a thread for the comic stuff once I finish enough work to justify it and get the OK from my writer and our publisher, but until then here's some side stuff I did while I was high on motivation from working again:
:thumbup:
Good luck with the comic work, looking forward to seeing it!
That's probably the nicest thing I've had said about my art like ever... to even be compared to Jen Zee and Leyendecker! Both huge inspirations for me, I'd suppose it shows haha. The top one actually is from a personal IP that is heavy on art deco/nouveau and Leyendecker era designs, so I'm glad it actually does show through.
Fixed up the contrast/lack of color/some of the shite rendering on the Faungirl.
IDK what I was even thinking before.
Oh, and a new icon for my personal blogs and profiles:
Did more revisions of things, but bare with me because the previous "final" of this was really starting to look like the base sketches I put together in for character designs (even though originally it took me 8+ hours) before I paint anything.
The original was done on the 5th of May, 2014, and this one was done in two sessions between yesterday and today (1/2/2015-2/2/2015).
Put together a little before/after gif because why not
Annoyed that I at some point combined some layers that included the background, so I couldn't make some value changes I would have liked to to make it match it's sister piece more-- and the colors are still weird. I'll probably tweak it again sometime soon and ninja switch all the uploads.
Okay, so I'm doing a thing today-- absolute last minute. Could really use any feedback anyone can give as I go, I'll try to update as I move along. Going for late 1800s military meets fencing garb meets neo-victorian industrial tech (ala The Order: 1886).
Right now the back view looks super funky, and while I sort of know what areas are incorrect, I can't seem to fix it.
(Figured I'd also mention that just recently I got some kind of weird art confidence boost. I blame some of that on Dado, but it's great because it means I actually do art and don't feel bad about it. 10/10 would recommend to anyone else.)
Edit: Is it socially acceptable to update in separate posts this often? Regardless, I'll just edit this one in. Did the back version as well. Suddenly became extremely aware of this lady being a few too many heads tall, even for the graceful look I was going for... Will do some quick edits to fix that before I clean up the lines/start painting/draft up the props.
Edit 2:
Draw the cape in the back view, put the cape over to the side so I can show the patterns on it. Also changed the proportions a tiny bit. Not familiar with Clip's transformation tools, so not entirely sure on the best way to change the body more dramatically, but I'm sure I'll figure something out, even if it's when I've finished painting and can combine the layers.
Somewhere along the way I lost the flow of the arm, so I'll try to push that again. Next up will probably be adding her face/hair blockout and redrawing the hand hidden behind her leg/cloak.
I hope you can get yourself back up again soon. I'm familiar with the cycle, but it still seems like a bummer that sometimes it's more or less inevitable.
On the color of the previous guy (greyscale) I see what you mean. Using the Hue/Sat is a good idea! I'll try it out next time for sure.
Alright, you caught me. I'll fix it right away! It's a quirk from the original gesture sketch that I drew in and was kind of eying. I tried to fix it early on but lost the gesture a bit, but I'll try once more with feeling.
---
Is this any better, or is it still too disjointed?
(replaced image quickly after smoothing out a bump)
I'm going to have to move it around again anyways, since the legs/feet have been different thicknesses for a while now, would be good to know if this was still not quite there.
*Face is super WIP pls dont pay it any mind
ok disclaimer I am no expert in clothing and I am tired
Also been watching all the ghost in the shell stuff. The way they handle clothing is inspiring (innocence), you should check it out if you have the chance.
dit: thinking about it, that long cloth could be in front of her hip depending on how far back her leg. But I dont think it will have the curve going in the direction you drew it
edit edit: and don't feel down with your work man you are putting out some rad stuff. (I know this cant be helped we all hate our own work at times.)
Now that you've pointed it out, I don't know how I could have thought otherwise! That cape should probably be behind her hip. I'll fix the folds, too, I was having some trouble there so thanks for the paintover! I'll change those ASAP (hopefully before bed).
The Cape is pretty clearly attached, though, even if my messy lines hide it a little. It's something like this (only done in more than 2 minutes)
What's going on in the right-center dude's belt is what's going on in the middle., only with a belt like the left-center dude's.
Also basically what's going on here, only the tassels are chopped off so no one grabs them.
but I'll keep in mind that right now it doesn't read well and I'll make sure to tighten it when I get around to painting tomorrow.
will also keep fixing leg. Blergh. Leg.
At the moment, everything I do makes it more awkward, or if it doesn't it means starting over because it's basically a completely different pose. Because of this, I've kind of just moved on for now since I kind of need to get this more or less done today/very early tomorrow.
I'll revisit them later (I've got a plan), and I did try, so there's that.
Getting ready to do some painting. Really wishing I had another monitor here so I could have my refs all the time (so tedious having to pull them up in front of stuff)...
Potentially my last update for tonight. Woefully slow today, but that just means I gotta draw and paint more until I'm entirely comfortable. >:T
Edit: Managed to escape a family dinner, kept going:
For now, I'm just laying back and painting. Which is starting to become less scary, and a lot more relaxing, and I like that. Looking forward to trying to finish this up tomorrow after work.
Edit: Yeah, this is probably where I have to leave this tonight. Big day tomorrow, we'll see where I can get up to. :thumbup:
This leg any better?
Edit: I decided to get something I'm never sure about out of the way
Shiny things that aren't metallic. The brown leather or shoes are probably up next, just to get them out of the way.
I'm getting there. 2 1/2 hours left, probably won't make it, don't really mind.
Still a lot to do/fix but hey. Shiny things. Also a little happy that I actually even came close to keeping enough drive to enter this in. I think that's the first time I've really managed that outside of work...
So yeah. Conclusion: Personal development and fun, need to keep working on it tho'.
Got a couple of small commissions this week, so:
And a personal sketch:
I thought I was basically out after a few system glitches, so even though I just get a copy of The Order: 1886 + some lame Deviantart prizes, I'm pretty happy to hear that I placed at all.
:-)