Well muzz I would say a.) because deviant art already exists and b.) fans do not get you jobs. Other artist who know their shit get you jobs. Hiring personnel who you link to your portfolio get you jobs, and recruiters searching though specialist cg portfolios get you jobs.
Upping the level of noise in my opinion is a bad thing. Da already exists, if I wanted a super loud community I'd go there. AS caters to a smaller more cg focused demographic, and that makes it a much cleaner experience, which I prefer.
It, like cghub, will never be a place to get commissions or small fan-art freelance gigs, but lots of artists don't want those, and for 3d it's not particular practical anyways. For those that do, go to DA.
I think that is missing the point though.
What i was suggesting wasn't to dilute the work of professionals, is that honestly what you think i am suggesting?
Having a clean professional way for fans to follow content they love, is not the same as diluting professional work.
Art station already looks like they are going to be attempting this to an extent, but maybe not via design. Have checked out the feeds? Right now it's just a straight posting of people you follow up there. I want to see discussions and feedback actually being handed out. Also if you are worried about ametuers jumping on board, well recommendation systems and smart fixes are there to help out.
I also think you are discrediting what having an unskilled fanbase does for you. It affords you freedoms in ways you probably can't imagine. Have you seen how many popular artists have pulled off kickstarters for mini figures, and art books. It pushes you up in search rankings, and it's proof that your work has fan appeal.
Keep in mind why we all make art. If you are making art to show off only to other art friends, i honestly think you are doing it wrong.
Alright Muzz, been thinking about it while I work, so here are my thoughts.
>What i was suggesting wasn't to dilute the work of professionals, is that honestly what you think i am suggesting?
I guess I sorta see this as a consequence of promoting fan/artist interaction.
>Having a clean professional way for fans to follow content they love, is not the same as diluting professional work.
Here is where I disagree.
I generally think that adding fans into the mix, essentially putting artists into the mode of 'competition for followers/fans etc', dillutes the art. DeviantArt is a good example of this. Generally all has become DeviantArt is a place where decent artists placate pop-culture driven fan bases by uploading thousands of daily 'deviations' of whatever is popular at the time. The front page is an endless loop of hot anime chicks wearing nothing in suggestive poses, my little pony fan art, and other pop-culture driven 'art'.
Now I have nothing against this, except that I want nothing to do with it. But why I started this thread was because I felt/feel that ArtStation could be an eventual replacement for CGHUB. CGHUB did cater to certain groups, but on the whole the nature of the site being artists following artists, and not artists competing for pop-culture rabid fans attention, meant that the art stayed extremely fresh and innovative.
That is not what I personally would want from artstation, although I recognize that it will go its own way. I will simply make an eventual decision about whether or not I stick around.
>I also think you are discrediting what having an unskilled fanbase does for you. It affords you freedoms in ways you probably can't imagine. Have you seen how many popular artists have pulled off kickstarters for mini figures, and art books. It pushes you up in search rankings, and it's proof that your work has fan appeal.
Right, but like I said, I feel that DA already fills this role, while the role of CGhub now goes (relatively) unfilled. It is not a part of culture that I would want to immerse myself in, because I find the kind of drivel that mostly fills the DA front page to be uninspiring and fan-pleasing, but that's just me.
>Keep in mind why we all make art. If you are making art to show off only to other art friends, i honestly think you are doing it wrong.
Eh, I don't think this is particularly accurate. I'm not going to fault someone for wanted to make mass-consumer art, but I personally do not like the art in hotel lobbies, which is what you end up with if you pursue it to its end. I wrote up a couple paragraph argument abou tthis but honestly I think my opinion on it is a bit unfair and antagonistic, so I'm leaving this off.
My main point though was that having fans on DA does not get you a job. Having the RIGHT fans (recruiters, hiring directors, HR at companies) does, whether that be at DA or at AStation. I think the clean portfolio structure of AStation is trying to market more towards those types, rather than the scrolling wall of images that DA favors to get more art to the 'fans'. Take that argument as you will, might not even make sense.
These are just my impressions, but I can definitely be wrong.
Tbh i think that deviant-art just leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth. It is an ugly old website with so much legacy features that it boggles the mind, and an acidic culture of selfishness.
Maybe art station isn't the place to fill the void that i want filled. Deviant art most definitely does not fill the void.
In fact i would say tumblr is a much better example of how interaction with fans can be awesome. In fact the feed seems to be based off of tumblr.
Zedig is probably my favorite modern example of this fan base being a huge boon, without any of the childish deviantart bullshit. http://alexandrediboine.tumblr.com/
Eh, I don't think this is particularly accurate. I'm not going to fault someone for wanted to make mass-consumer art, but I personally do not like the art in hotel lobbies, which is what you end up with if you pursue it to its end. I wrote up a couple paragraph argument abou tthis but honestly I think my opinion on it is a bit unfair and antagonistic, so I'm leaving this off.
Eh, you are a commercial artist man. Luckily the world is large enough that niches can consists of millions of people so you don't need to be "Mass Market". Fans are ultimately the ones that will be paying for your work, even if it's the companies that are hiring you.
In fact I think catering to impressing artists is what i think is a bigger problem than catering to fans as you loose focus of an entire project when you do that and just focus on bigger shinier mecha tits, but that's a different argument...
>Eh, you are a commercial artist man. Luckily the world is large enough that niches can consists of millions of people so you don't need to be "Mass Market". Fans are ultimately the ones that will be paying for your work, even if it's the companies that are hiring you.
Yes I am, I have no problem with that. I try to keep my work both pleasing to me and pleasing to others without being condescending to either, but perhaps I have failed a couple times.
>Zedig is probably my favorite modern example of this fan base being a huge boon, without any of the childish deviantart bullshit.
I imagine there are thousands of artists as amazing as this guy that go unnoticed, lost in the noise.
> you do that and just focus on bigger shinier mecha tits, but that's a different argument... '
I can see your side of a lot of these point but this isn't fair and I don't think it has any validity. And I also think that it applies much more to the please-fans type of art, rather than the more technically inclined please-other-artists type of art.
But this all boils down to opinions etc so no point in carrying it much further.
To be honest i think the majority of our argument comes from the inherit differences between 2d and 3d.
2d is a much more marketable prospect without the support of animation or a game than 3d can be unless you are pascal Blanche who uses 3d to make illustrations.
As long as there is some control to the artist as to which feedback is displayed, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
The main thing is keeping things neat and tidy and easy to navigate, something that DA lacks. That site has become a mass of garbage, comments and other stuff that makes trying to find the best examples of art impossibly buried under an avalanche of mediocrity.
It's still early but I have found a couple things about artstation that I'm not crazy about in comparison to cghub. I don't think they do a great a job of making a larger pool of art viewable to people who just load the front page. Basically, their "picks" are essentially like top row pieces, and their "popular" are basically top row of all time. The only way to see more variety is to do the "latest" but then you get a lot of stuff that you don't really want to look at. Cghub had a nice way of including a mix of the most popular with stuff that was good but maybe not top row. Unless artstation can figure out how to spread that exposure, I don't see it being as big as cghub. Also, similar to drawcrowd though not as extreme, 2D seems to get way more emphasis that 3d. Now that is probably due to there being more 2D guys on there at the moment, but it would still be nice if they balanced that out somehow. As of now, it's a solid option but no where near the stickiness of cghub for me. I don't really enjoy browsing the front page that much because I feel like I just see the same images. At least drawcrowd's "picks" has a wider range even though they are even heavier on 2D.
There's a Kickstarter to start up a new CGHub. It'll be interesting to see if people pay for that or just use ArtStation which is, like, already here...
Don't you guys like already have the code ? It would take like a week to bring everything back right ?
We do have the code but we don't own it as in "we don't have the rights to use it".
That and that's the strangest thing about the kickstarter, strikes me as entirely bizarre.
But I really don't think they have a chance, Artstation has won my loyalty and with equal exposure to cg/game artists as it does to digital painters seems to of interested more people I know then what CG hub was even doing, so making a new CG hub not called CG hub would be stepping backwards at this point, they have nothing to offer except promises that artstation has already filled.
That and that's the strangest thing about the kickstarter, strikes me as entirely bizarre.
But I really don't think they have a chance, Artstation has won my loyalty and with equal exposure to cg/game artists as it does to digital painters seems to of interested more people I know then what CG hub was even doing, so making a new CG hub not called CG hub would be stepping backwards at this point, they have nothing to offer except promises that artstation has already filled.
Love this site so far. Only thingsI don't like is the search function. If I search for "Soldier" for example, it'd be good if all related artwork appears in the main area as thumbnails.
And is there any way to find a list of all the pieces of art that you liked?
Love this site so far. Only thingsI don't like is the search function. If I search for "Soldier" for example, it'd be good if all related artwork appears in the main area as thumbnails.
And is there any way to find a list of all the pieces of art that you liked?
yeah its on your main artstation bit of your profile when logged in under likes.
yeah its on your main artstation bit of your profile when logged in under likes.
Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I can't find any likes section at all. I found the feed section, which does show some of the images I liked, but it doesn't seem like what I'm looking for.
I'd still be interested the CGHub developer's take on a new site. ArtStation does seem to be doing the business. I hope it translates well to Asia, which is what CGHub did so well, in exposing us to artists we would otherwise never have known about.
I've been waiting it out to see how Artstation would pan out. I'm actually a huge fan so far, and am somewhat convinced it'll be the guy to "take over" cghub, but *shrug who knows. Finally hopped on the Artstation train a bit ago
Yea I agree. I sent Leonard an email about doing some sort of stat tracking and they have SUPER detailed stats planned! Really looking forward to that. I think they have the right idea to replace CGHub.
I am quite happy to report that ArtStation(as well as DrawCrowd) are very good at SEO. Now if I search myself on Google, my gallery at ArtStation and DrawCrowd are #1 and #2 search result. (LinkedIn at #3, yay !! While Facebook at #4, lol. My new personal site is like... #15 or something lol.)
But I think DrawCrowd looks a little cooler, though. With some thumbnails are only half size. And in terms of function, DrawCrowd lets you like an art piece directly from a thumbnail, don't have to view it fullscreen first. (same as Pinterest)
Replies
I think that is missing the point though.
What i was suggesting wasn't to dilute the work of professionals, is that honestly what you think i am suggesting?
Having a clean professional way for fans to follow content they love, is not the same as diluting professional work.
Art station already looks like they are going to be attempting this to an extent, but maybe not via design. Have checked out the feeds? Right now it's just a straight posting of people you follow up there. I want to see discussions and feedback actually being handed out. Also if you are worried about ametuers jumping on board, well recommendation systems and smart fixes are there to help out.
I also think you are discrediting what having an unskilled fanbase does for you. It affords you freedoms in ways you probably can't imagine. Have you seen how many popular artists have pulled off kickstarters for mini figures, and art books. It pushes you up in search rankings, and it's proof that your work has fan appeal.
Keep in mind why we all make art. If you are making art to show off only to other art friends, i honestly think you are doing it wrong.
>What i was suggesting wasn't to dilute the work of professionals, is that honestly what you think i am suggesting?
I guess I sorta see this as a consequence of promoting fan/artist interaction.
>Having a clean professional way for fans to follow content they love, is not the same as diluting professional work.
Here is where I disagree.
I generally think that adding fans into the mix, essentially putting artists into the mode of 'competition for followers/fans etc', dillutes the art. DeviantArt is a good example of this. Generally all has become DeviantArt is a place where decent artists placate pop-culture driven fan bases by uploading thousands of daily 'deviations' of whatever is popular at the time. The front page is an endless loop of hot anime chicks wearing nothing in suggestive poses, my little pony fan art, and other pop-culture driven 'art'.
Now I have nothing against this, except that I want nothing to do with it. But why I started this thread was because I felt/feel that ArtStation could be an eventual replacement for CGHUB. CGHUB did cater to certain groups, but on the whole the nature of the site being artists following artists, and not artists competing for pop-culture rabid fans attention, meant that the art stayed extremely fresh and innovative.
That is not what I personally would want from artstation, although I recognize that it will go its own way. I will simply make an eventual decision about whether or not I stick around.
>I also think you are discrediting what having an unskilled fanbase does for you. It affords you freedoms in ways you probably can't imagine. Have you seen how many popular artists have pulled off kickstarters for mini figures, and art books. It pushes you up in search rankings, and it's proof that your work has fan appeal.
Right, but like I said, I feel that DA already fills this role, while the role of CGhub now goes (relatively) unfilled. It is not a part of culture that I would want to immerse myself in, because I find the kind of drivel that mostly fills the DA front page to be uninspiring and fan-pleasing, but that's just me.
>Keep in mind why we all make art. If you are making art to show off only to other art friends, i honestly think you are doing it wrong.
Eh, I don't think this is particularly accurate. I'm not going to fault someone for wanted to make mass-consumer art, but I personally do not like the art in hotel lobbies, which is what you end up with if you pursue it to its end. I wrote up a couple paragraph argument abou tthis but honestly I think my opinion on it is a bit unfair and antagonistic, so I'm leaving this off.
My main point though was that having fans on DA does not get you a job. Having the RIGHT fans (recruiters, hiring directors, HR at companies) does, whether that be at DA or at AStation. I think the clean portfolio structure of AStation is trying to market more towards those types, rather than the scrolling wall of images that DA favors to get more art to the 'fans'. Take that argument as you will, might not even make sense.
These are just my impressions, but I can definitely be wrong.
Maybe art station isn't the place to fill the void that i want filled. Deviant art most definitely does not fill the void.
In fact i would say tumblr is a much better example of how interaction with fans can be awesome. In fact the feed seems to be based off of tumblr.
Zedig is probably my favorite modern example of this fan base being a huge boon, without any of the childish deviantart bullshit.
http://alexandrediboine.tumblr.com/
Eh, you are a commercial artist man. Luckily the world is large enough that niches can consists of millions of people so you don't need to be "Mass Market". Fans are ultimately the ones that will be paying for your work, even if it's the companies that are hiring you.
In fact I think catering to impressing artists is what i think is a bigger problem than catering to fans as you loose focus of an entire project when you do that and just focus on bigger shinier mecha tits, but that's a different argument...
I honestly don't get the negative stigma here.
Yes I am, I have no problem with that. I try to keep my work both pleasing to me and pleasing to others without being condescending to either, but perhaps I have failed a couple times.
>Zedig is probably my favorite modern example of this fan base being a huge boon, without any of the childish deviantart bullshit.
I imagine there are thousands of artists as amazing as this guy that go unnoticed, lost in the noise.
> you do that and just focus on bigger shinier mecha tits, but that's a different argument... '
I can see your side of a lot of these point but this isn't fair and I don't think it has any validity. And I also think that it applies much more to the please-fans type of art, rather than the more technically inclined please-other-artists type of art.
But this all boils down to opinions etc so no point in carrying it much further.
2d is a much more marketable prospect without the support of animation or a game than 3d can be unless you are pascal Blanche who uses 3d to make illustrations.
tfm@mohamed-saad.com
you can check my work on my website nothing fancy ,but hope you like it
airjordan6115@gmail.com
http://www.artstation.com/artist/Muzz/followers
If they keep up the improvements at this pace, it's a great sign.
Edit: Why do you follow yourself by default haha.
Also, finally got some new work up
http://beefaroni3d.artstation.com/portfolio/19454
here's my artstation
http://www.artstation.com/artist/ericspitler
Give it time, I think it will be the GoTo site.
here is my link, just older stuff at the moment.
http://www.artstation.com/artist/Jronn
http://artstation.uservoice.com/forums/230968-general/suggestions/5829845-more-support-for-fans#comments
The main thing is keeping things neat and tidy and easy to navigate, something that DA lacks. That site has become a mass of garbage, comments and other stuff that makes trying to find the best examples of art impossibly buried under an avalanche of mediocrity.
It's not in proper chronological order yay.
They also posted what the new changes actually now mean in their forums:
http://www.artstation.com/artist/ryanbowen3d
That and that's the strangest thing about the kickstarter, strikes me as entirely bizarre.
But I really don't think they have a chance, Artstation has won my loyalty and with equal exposure to cg/game artists as it does to digital painters seems to of interested more people I know then what CG hub was even doing, so making a new CG hub not called CG hub would be stepping backwards at this point, they have nothing to offer except promises that artstation has already filled.
^What he said x 2
so ... any 1 got spare invitations left ?
would appreciate one
aa3d_said@yahoo.com
sent
And is there any way to find a list of all the pieces of art that you liked?
yeah its on your main artstation bit of your profile when logged in under likes.
EDIT: Nevermind. Fount it. Thanks.
woot .. thx a bunch guys
got 20 fresh invitations .. feel free to pm me
http://www.artstation.com/artist/jaysonmiller
But I think DrawCrowd looks a little cooler, though. With some thumbnails are only half size. And in terms of function, DrawCrowd lets you like an art piece directly from a thumbnail, don't have to view it fullscreen first. (same as Pinterest)
I can't wait for ArtStation next update though.
rabitagore67@gmail.com
Sent