Is it possible? Do you know someone like that? Can i focus all my time in 3D, learning anatomy in Zbrush and what not, and again produce characters/creatures from top modelers in the world?
It's possible, but practicing drawing and painting can improve your 3d skills. It helps develop your artistic eye. The "rules" of art easily transfer between mediums.
I always drew cartoons as a child and took a few beginner art classes in high school.
In college i took the prereq drawing classes, which didn't help much.
Its definitely possible, but like everyone else says. it can definitely improve your 3d skills to develop an artistic eye.
Another thing that can help your artistic eye is photography
Any particular reason you don't want to learn traditional art skills? Even working at them for just 20 minutes a day or a couple of hours a week can end up making a huge difference over time.
I always drew creatures and characters when I was younger but they were never anything special. If anything I got good at traditional stuff after I got good at 3D. I felt that after seeing things in 3d for so long I got better with perspective in 2d...
I dunno though, everyone's different! I defintely wouldnt stop yourself from improving at it now though, I definitely wish I had put more time into it ages ago!
Art isn't a thing where one area doesn't influence the other areas. 3d and 2d use the same skill sets, just using different tools.
You are doing yourself a serious disservice not learning both. You can become a damn good pro without the 2d skills, but if you ever want to break off and do your own stuff, not knowing 2d limits your usage as a higher level artist with more control. And god help you if you ever wanted to do indie without 2d skills.
^ That, i am on and off and been since i was idk, young.. haha.
Now was most of that correct anatomy and correct processes however remains to known, but i'll never tell, teehee.
I don't do much work where anatomy matters, but yeah I can't draw, or at least I haven't tried that much, lose patience right away, but the boat seems stable in the 3D department.
Technically they are two different skill sets but the successful union of the two can help you in becoming a more "successful" artist. Being great in 3d is awesome, but being great in both just tells others that your not afraid of any particular medium and it allows you to look at subject matter from different perspectives. It's not required, but it opens up your skill set.
Those who can draw, started from very earlier. Because there bored in school and from classes, and they wanted to have fun. I am not sure, why i can't see drawing as a fun thing, rather than boring and impatience thing.Maybe i develop some mental barrier that i can't get rid of this.
I see people who draw, but they started at 5 or 15 years old. I ask people from 20s, they say drawing takes years( i know ) but if your really want to draw, the first thing is having fun and to enjoy. I neither have both.
I'm not too sure of your drawing experience but you might not enjoy it simply due to the fact that it is harder to see enjoyable results.
With 3D, a few simple clicks will result in having a perfect looking primitive on the screen. For many people, that task alone could take an hour to do if drawing by hand.
Practice makes perfect though, I know when I started learning 3D, I was having quite a bit of trouble until I started getting better at it in which it became more fun. If I were you, I'd keep trying to draw a bit every day.
It's not like you have to give up on 3D for 4 years and start drawing. Focus on 3D but maybe try to work on a sketch of some basic objects atleast once a day. You could spend 5 minutes on it, or 5 hours, as long as you promise yourself to work at it every day. Over time you'll likely find that drawing can be just as fun as 3D, and even if it isn't fun, it will no doubt be a useful skill to have for many reasons that others have already listed.
Practice makes perfect though, I know when I started learning 3D, I was having quite a bit of trouble until I started getting better at it in which it became more fun. If I were you, I'd keep trying to draw a bit every day.
QFT.
It's the same thing with drawing, creating textures, codingand pretty much everything else. When you start you are bad at it. You don't see any plausible results that other people have, and you are discouraged from trying further.
Only solution is, to keep telling yourself that everyone when they started were bad at it, they just kept trying until, and they got better at it.
Yes learning to draw to a pro level takes years, and from that perspective is super daunting.
But that's not the challenge, the challenge is pushing yourself enough to get to a level where you actually enjoy the work. When you do that suddenly you'll find yourself procrastinating drawing or making instead of doing things you are supposed to.
It works for anything creative based. I play guitar, drums, sing, program, game design, writing, 3d, drawing, 2d animation, electronics. The same mentality works for every single one of these things. And quite a few of them i am far from being a natural. (not trying to say i'm amazing at all these mind you)
Programming by far has been the hardest and i considered it not to be something i could do... until i forced myself to actually sit down for a few months and push past the hard part. Now i waste hours programming useless prototypes of games .
You might have to try and look a bit to find some part of drawing your 2d art you enjoy.
I'd suggest try taking a life drawing course at a local community college, or see if there's weekly/monthly life drawing sessions around where you live. Try different mediums, charcoal, pencils, pen, actual art markers, quick water color, etc. Try quick gesture drawings, drawing or concepting a 3d project in 2d, self portraits, thumbnail sketches, etc, etc.
Just try everything and see if there's something out there for you.
Also try drawing when there's nothing more productive you could be doing, like on the bus/train, at work/school during breaks or down time, bring a small sketch pad with you and take a walk.
Yea, I wouldn't say not being able to draw makes texturing way harder. I knew a few people at Escape that couldn't draw that well at all but were pretty sick digital sculptors, so it is possible but requires a lot of study and observation, sometimes it's good to just take time away from the monitor and just sketch some quick studies. The artist should want to draw though, you're never going to excel at drawing if you feel it's a chore.
Texture mapping becomes x1000 harder if you can't draw and textures are essential to any 3D model.
I disagree. For me, they feel like totally unrelated processes. I think a different part of my brain textures, than the part that draws. I really dislike drawing, but I like texturing a lot. Also, I'm bad at drawing, but I'm ok at texturing.
Of course, it makes hand-painted texturing a lot harder...
I can draw a bit, but 3D is my main medium, I don't expect a sculptor to be amazing at painting, so why expect a 3d artist to be good at 2d.
the way it can most make you better is teaching you the fundamentals on 2D but you don't have to learn the fundamentals via 2d, you can learn them in 3D, or by watching videos on them in 2d and translate what they are saying.
controversially I will say getting good at 2d won't necessarily make you a good 3d artist, getting good at 3d will make you a good 3d artist 100% of the time.
and as for texturing there are some styles sure enough require drawing ability but I wouldn't ever equate drawing to texturing myself.
controversially I will say getting good at 2d won't necessarily make you a good 3d artist, getting good at 3d will make you a good 3d artist 100% of the time.
I'd say getting good at 2D would make you pretty solid at 3D (should probably practice what I preach.) Learning stuff in 2D like composition, posing, material definition, color theory, will only make you stronger in 3D art.
I think a lot of the people here who claim success without knowing how to draw are probably at least competent at drawing. They just aren't at a professional level. The major boost to your 3D art and ability to see shape/color is going to come from a fundamental competency at drawing anyway.
I'd say getting good at 2D would make you pretty solid at 3D (should probably practice what I preach.) Learning stuff in 2D like composition, posing, material definition, color theory, will only make you stronger in 3D art.
And I don't believe you honestly need to learn these things in a 2D environment, you can take resources like ctrl paint where it gives you the fundamentals and apply that same theory to your 3d work and notice a vast improvement.
The whole thing to me is 2D is a lot more established as a learning process when it comes to composition, scale, colour theory etc, but 2D is still a medium, and you can learn these fundamentals through a 3D medium, I know some people who have made warhammer environments out of styrofoam who would make great Environment artists if they were to switch up their mediums.
Improving your 3D may involve learning traditional aspects which can most be found in 2D tutorials etc, but I don't think that fundamentally means you have to learn to draw well,I say this not as a means it discourage but rather encourage, if you have the time energy and desire, learn to draw as well, its a awesome skill and can help you concept ideas quicker.
but if you don't have the time energy and desire to deviate from 3D, don't get discouraged, learn these fundamentals and apply them to your medium.
I think a lot of the people here who claim success without knowing how to draw are probably at least competent at drawing. They just aren't at a professional level. The major boost to your 3D art and ability to see shape/color is going to come from a fundamental competency at drawing anyway.
No, I'm saying that the successful 3D artists in this thread are likely exaggerating the magnitude of their inability to draw. Getting the fundamentals down is incredibly beneficial and not hard to do.
No, I'm saying that the successful 3D artists in this thread are likely exaggerating the magnitude of their inability to draw. Getting the fundamentals down is incredibly beneficial and not hard to do.
well I think that really depends on what you view as competent and what you need to know but fair play :thumbup:
Seriously? I think a few people (including myself) are feeling a little more hopeful now, considering you have a folio with such high quality and claim to have no drawing skills
I also don't draw. But Btween 3d, programming and some gaming, there is not much incentive to draw. I'm not that good at 3d but I feel I'm getting better and better at it.
Though I would have huge issues with making textures for hand draw style environment.
Get a small moleskine pocket sketchbook and draw in those spare moments. Yes, I need to practice what I preach :P I've slacked off on drawing since I got into the game industry but enough of my anatomy knowledge stuck around that I was able to jump from environment art to character art when I needed to.
The style I've been working in my whole career, texturing is drawing, so I get some practice doing that
'I often talk about how important drawing is to the creative process, but I don't think people really understand.
When I say keep a sketchbook, I mean keep a sketchbook and USE it. The biggest hurdles for people seems to be a lurking fear of failure and some ominous quality standard they feel they have to meet. First, make a commitment to yourself that NOBODY gets to see inside your sketchbooks and the fear of failure will slowly lessen. Regarding quality, force yourself not to worry. Then just draw, scribble, color, copy, think, or doodle in it for a little bit every day.
I sit down and sketch for about twenty minutes over my morning coffee. Some days I may do more, some days less - but I consistently do something. Whatever you draw it doesn't really matter - the habit is the most powerful thing.
Here is about five years worth of sketchbooks that I have sitting around the studio. You will never get to see inside most of these, but I am comfortable with that.'
get a sketchbook and keep it secret its not essential but it helps......alot!!!!
I cant draw, really even by amateur standards I'm pretty bad. its something that I am changing but I don't feel that its really hampered my career so far. I have got to the stage where I really want to help a few guys that I know with paint-overs, and if you want to advance up the career ladder 2d is the quickest way to convey an idea or suggest an alteration...so I'm learning.
As simple as it is to noodle around in a sketchbook every now and then, I guess I don't see why you wouldn't work in 2D at least a little bit.
I do think it's possible to be a solid 3D artist without having much drawing ability, but I also think if you have 2D ability, translating it into 3D is a simpler progression (let's be fair and say I think most skilled 2D artists would be comfortable sculpting something in 3D).
Art may be a little unique in that pretty much everything is related. Analyzing a trash can may be just as beneficial as analyzing a person. 2D skills will help build better 3D skills, and conversely 3D knowledge will help you with your 2D skills. That's one of the reasons I stick around pretty exclusively here at Polycount - I'm 2D focused, but I started out wanting to get into 3D, and I still find the various sculpts/models/breakdowns of people's 3D work to be just as helpful and inspiring as other 2D work. And there are so many similarities. Apparently sculpting rocks is a pain in the ass, I think painting rocks is a pain in the ass. Same with cloth, hair, etc. Lots of the same struggles, take knowledge from anywhere you can!
Drawing is not in my wheelhouse of skills unfortunatly. I wish it was, but its not something that I wish enough to do anything about it. It has never gotten in the way of being able to do my job and do it well. There are other things I would rather get better at that I feel would help do my job better than 2d drawing.
Creating textures is not the same as "drawing" in traditional 2d. Unless you need to make a unique sign/logo of something normal 2d drawing has never been a big factor when making a texture I have found. Dont get me wrong, I think it would be a HUGE asset to have, but it certainly is not something that will keep you from doing a great job.
Creating textures is not the same as "drawing" in traditional 2d.
really depends on the specs, here's one of my textures, all drawn over a few different light bakes (I really need to make something new, spaceman is over a year old now!):
I believe it's a bad habit that people keep mentally dividing game art into 3D vs 2D. It's beyond bizarre. Everything applied to "both" is the same underlining thought processes. The only noticeable difference is the muscle memory inconjunction with hand eye coordination.
Perspective, depth, spacial proportioning, light and form, material differentiation, tone, composition, function, structure, design, wear...
Just because you can't draw a person doesn't mean you have no understanding of 2D... :P
The sad thing that I have is something to do with my hand eye coordination which means I draw like a 5 year old in the drawing quality my hand writing is around 5-7 years old not improved despite multiple attempts at trying.
However I seem to have a goodish eye which is improving as a quite good rate for now so
I am not sure what it is problem with me about drawing. Everyone i asked, i got mix replays. Someone told me , he never drew in his life, and started to use Maya and then Zbrush and he stick to it , but he make stunning character or creatures in Zbrush,
And the others told me quit opposite, started with drawing, then Maya and Zbrush.
Rag on art colleges all you want, but I couldn't draw worth crap before I went to art school. I don't do it often anymore (Having two kids and full-time at the office doesn't leave a lot of free time), but I got over the frustrated feeling I'd get when I tried to draw because of art school. I used to hate drawing, but being taught how to look at things and deconstruct them really helped me out a lot. I'm obviously not the best artist, but I got my current position because of my portfolio - so I've got that going for me.
Just because you can't draw a person doesn't mean you have no understanding of 2D... :P
Thats the problem with this thread and topics like it.
People equate being able to draw as the same as understanding the principals of 2d. They are different.
The image justin posted as an example isnt a drawing, its a rendering of forms. If you cant draw a person that doesn't mean you couldn't paint a texture like justin did. Yes being able to draw certainly helps a ton but understanding the principles and being able to apply them is the skill you need. Not the skill of being able to draw well.
2D and 3D I feel are so far removed from each other I don't see why people compare them as if they are so similar. One you are dealing with a flat X and Y plane while the other you step into a whole other dimension. That 3rd dimension changes EVERYTHING. There are a million things you can cheat in 2D to create an appealing piece of art that cannot be replicated in 3D.
The absence of depth from 2D makes them vastly different. 3D computer modeling is far more comparable and compatible with real world physical sculpting than 2D as you still must deal with the depth and full form of a 3d shape.
Don't get me wrong though, I think being able to actually draw is a huge benefit for any 3D artist and the foundation skills of 2D are paramount to being able to do 3D well. I just dont think you NEED to draw to be a good 3D artist.
The image justin posted as an example isnt a drawing, its a rendering of forms. If you cant draw a person that doesn't mean you couldn't paint a texture like justin did.
It's just a coincidence all the hand painting superstars on polycount have 2d drawing skills that make me hang my head in shame.
I also define "can't draw" as struggling to draw a stick figure. I see plenty of people on polycount that are competent 2d artists claim they can't draw for crap.
ANYWAY lets just agree that drawing is a great fundamental art skill. I draw now and then but I really neglected it and it's one of my biggest regrets, it's extremely important to my work. For instance, all the characters I do at work have eyes painted on flat planes. It's drawing an eye, plane and simple.
It's just a coincidence all the hand painting superstars on polycount have 2d drawing skills that make me hang my head in shame.
Very true, for handpainted stuff its such a huge benefit. I was just going off the title of the thread of "successful 3d artist without drawing skil?" which I think you can be. But of course you will be far better off with 2d awesomeness
I can draw but when I do 3d I don't feel like I'm drawing at all. The skills of being able to draw hardly transfer as much as people say, I don't run into the same issues as when I draw.
What transfers is your attention to detail. Other than that drawing just made movements on a tablet to sculpt much easier.
With that said drawing is the easiest method of studying. Anatomy for example its easier to sketch 50 torsos to practice than to sculpt 50 torsos
Replies
In college i took the prereq drawing classes, which didn't help much.
Its definitely possible, but like everyone else says. it can definitely improve your 3d skills to develop an artistic eye.
Another thing that can help your artistic eye is photography
I dunno though, everyone's different! I defintely wouldnt stop yourself from improving at it now though, I definitely wish I had put more time into it ages ago!
You are doing yourself a serious disservice not learning both. You can become a damn good pro without the 2d skills, but if you ever want to break off and do your own stuff, not knowing 2d limits your usage as a higher level artist with more control. And god help you if you ever wanted to do indie without 2d skills.
Now was most of that correct anatomy and correct processes however remains to known, but i'll never tell, teehee.
I'll tell you now it was the hard way to learn...
No 3d artist that can draw has ever said it was a waste of time.
So don't use our comments as a reason not to learn, just you don't have to give up on 3D because your not a great traditional artist.
I see people who draw, but they started at 5 or 15 years old. I ask people from 20s, they say drawing takes years( i know ) but if your really want to draw, the first thing is having fun and to enjoy. I neither have both.
It is killing me
With 3D, a few simple clicks will result in having a perfect looking primitive on the screen. For many people, that task alone could take an hour to do if drawing by hand.
Practice makes perfect though, I know when I started learning 3D, I was having quite a bit of trouble until I started getting better at it in which it became more fun. If I were you, I'd keep trying to draw a bit every day.
It's not like you have to give up on 3D for 4 years and start drawing. Focus on 3D but maybe try to work on a sketch of some basic objects atleast once a day. You could spend 5 minutes on it, or 5 hours, as long as you promise yourself to work at it every day. Over time you'll likely find that drawing can be just as fun as 3D, and even if it isn't fun, it will no doubt be a useful skill to have for many reasons that others have already listed.
It's the same thing with drawing, creating textures, codingand pretty much everything else. When you start you are bad at it. You don't see any plausible results that other people have, and you are discouraged from trying further.
Only solution is, to keep telling yourself that everyone when they started were bad at it, they just kept trying until, and they got better at it.
Eh, I don't know about that. I am awful at drawing but currently working as a texture artist.
But that's not the challenge, the challenge is pushing yourself enough to get to a level where you actually enjoy the work. When you do that suddenly you'll find yourself procrastinating drawing or making instead of doing things you are supposed to.
It works for anything creative based. I play guitar, drums, sing, program, game design, writing, 3d, drawing, 2d animation, electronics. The same mentality works for every single one of these things. And quite a few of them i am far from being a natural. (not trying to say i'm amazing at all these mind you)
Programming by far has been the hardest and i considered it not to be something i could do... until i forced myself to actually sit down for a few months and push past the hard part. Now i waste hours programming useless prototypes of games
I'd suggest try taking a life drawing course at a local community college, or see if there's weekly/monthly life drawing sessions around where you live. Try different mediums, charcoal, pencils, pen, actual art markers, quick water color, etc. Try quick gesture drawings, drawing or concepting a 3d project in 2d, self portraits, thumbnail sketches, etc, etc.
Just try everything and see if there's something out there for you.
Also try drawing when there's nothing more productive you could be doing, like on the bus/train, at work/school during breaks or down time, bring a small sketch pad with you and take a walk.
I disagree. For me, they feel like totally unrelated processes. I think a different part of my brain textures, than the part that draws. I really dislike drawing, but I like texturing a lot. Also, I'm bad at drawing, but I'm ok at texturing.
Of course, it makes hand-painted texturing a lot harder...
However I can say that I feel like learning to draw would be greatly beneficial to me, and make me a better artist.
I'm not sure what your lower bounds for "successful" are, though.
the way it can most make you better is teaching you the fundamentals on 2D but you don't have to learn the fundamentals via 2d, you can learn them in 3D, or by watching videos on them in 2d and translate what they are saying.
controversially I will say getting good at 2d won't necessarily make you a good 3d artist, getting good at 3d will make you a good 3d artist 100% of the time.
and as for texturing there are some styles sure enough require drawing ability but I wouldn't ever equate drawing to texturing myself.
I'd say getting good at 2D would make you pretty solid at 3D (should probably practice what I preach.) Learning stuff in 2D like composition, posing, material definition, color theory, will only make you stronger in 3D art.
And I don't believe you honestly need to learn these things in a 2D environment, you can take resources like ctrl paint where it gives you the fundamentals and apply that same theory to your 3d work and notice a vast improvement.
The whole thing to me is 2D is a lot more established as a learning process when it comes to composition, scale, colour theory etc, but 2D is still a medium, and you can learn these fundamentals through a 3D medium, I know some people who have made warhammer environments out of styrofoam who would make great Environment artists if they were to switch up their mediums.
Improving your 3D may involve learning traditional aspects which can most be found in 2D tutorials etc, but I don't think that fundamentally means you have to learn to draw well,I say this not as a means it discourage but rather encourage, if you have the time energy and desire, learn to draw as well, its a awesome skill and can help you concept ideas quicker.
but if you don't have the time energy and desire to deviate from 3D, don't get discouraged, learn these fundamentals and apply them to your medium.
Isn't that redundant?
No, I'm saying that the successful 3D artists in this thread are likely exaggerating the magnitude of their inability to draw. Getting the fundamentals down is incredibly beneficial and not hard to do.
well I think that really depends on what you view as competent and what you need to know but fair play :thumbup:
Seriously? I think a few people (including myself) are feeling a little more hopeful now, considering you have a folio with such high quality and claim to have no drawing skills
Though I would have huge issues with making textures for hand draw style environment.
The style I've been working in my whole career, texturing is drawing, so I get some practice doing that
get a sketchbook and keep it secret
I do think it's possible to be a solid 3D artist without having much drawing ability, but I also think if you have 2D ability, translating it into 3D is a simpler progression (let's be fair and say I think most skilled 2D artists would be comfortable sculpting something in 3D).
Art may be a little unique in that pretty much everything is related. Analyzing a trash can may be just as beneficial as analyzing a person. 2D skills will help build better 3D skills, and conversely 3D knowledge will help you with your 2D skills. That's one of the reasons I stick around pretty exclusively here at Polycount - I'm 2D focused, but I started out wanting to get into 3D, and I still find the various sculpts/models/breakdowns of people's 3D work to be just as helpful and inspiring as other 2D work. And there are so many similarities. Apparently sculpting rocks is a pain in the ass, I think painting rocks is a pain in the ass. Same with cloth, hair, etc. Lots of the same struggles, take knowledge from anywhere you can!
Creating textures is not the same as "drawing" in traditional 2d. Unless you need to make a unique sign/logo of something normal 2d drawing has never been a big factor when making a texture I have found. Dont get me wrong, I think it would be a HUGE asset to have, but it certainly is not something that will keep you from doing a great job.
really depends on the specs, here's one of my textures, all drawn over a few different light bakes (I really need to make something new, spaceman is over a year old now!):
Perspective, depth, spacial proportioning, light and form, material differentiation, tone, composition, function, structure, design, wear...
Just because you can't draw a person doesn't mean you have no understanding of 2D... :P
However I seem to have a goodish eye which is improving as a quite good rate for now so
I am not sure what it is problem with me about drawing. Everyone i asked, i got mix replays. Someone told me , he never drew in his life, and started to use Maya and then Zbrush and he stick to it , but he make stunning character or creatures in Zbrush,
And the others told me quit opposite, started with drawing, then Maya and Zbrush.
There's the big issue (to me at least) I see a lot of people in our biz pushing to be technicians rather than artists.
Thats the problem with this thread and topics like it.
People equate being able to draw as the same as understanding the principals of 2d. They are different.
The image justin posted as an example isnt a drawing, its a rendering of forms. If you cant draw a person that doesn't mean you couldn't paint a texture like justin did. Yes being able to draw certainly helps a ton but understanding the principles and being able to apply them is the skill you need. Not the skill of being able to draw well.
2D and 3D I feel are so far removed from each other I don't see why people compare them as if they are so similar. One you are dealing with a flat X and Y plane while the other you step into a whole other dimension. That 3rd dimension changes EVERYTHING. There are a million things you can cheat in 2D to create an appealing piece of art that cannot be replicated in 3D.
The absence of depth from 2D makes them vastly different. 3D computer modeling is far more comparable and compatible with real world physical sculpting than 2D as you still must deal with the depth and full form of a 3d shape.
Don't get me wrong though, I think being able to actually draw is a huge benefit for any 3D artist and the foundation skills of 2D are paramount to being able to do 3D well. I just dont think you NEED to draw to be a good 3D artist.
It's just a coincidence all the hand painting superstars on polycount have 2d drawing skills that make me hang my head in shame.
I also define "can't draw" as struggling to draw a stick figure. I see plenty of people on polycount that are competent 2d artists claim they can't draw for crap.
ANYWAY lets just agree that drawing is a great fundamental art skill. I draw now and then but I really neglected it and it's one of my biggest regrets, it's extremely important to my work. For instance, all the characters I do at work have eyes painted on flat planes. It's drawing an eye, plane and simple.
Very true, for handpainted stuff its such a huge benefit. I was just going off the title of the thread of "successful 3d artist without drawing skil?" which I think you can be. But of course you will be far better off with 2d awesomeness
What transfers is your attention to detail. Other than that drawing just made movements on a tablet to sculpt much easier.
With that said drawing is the easiest method of studying. Anatomy for example its easier to sketch 50 torsos to practice than to sculpt 50 torsos