.-| Week 8 - The Weekly Hard Surface Challenge |-.

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s6
polycounter lvl 7
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s6 polycounter lvl 7
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Hey guys! Looking to get a little better at modeling challenging and complex shapes? Do you frequently have trouble with tricky geometry, and need to up your game? Just bored at work and want to kill some time?

Well, You're in the right place!

In 'The Weekly Hard Surface Challenge' complex and challenging geometry will be posted weekly for poly counters to make along side one another.

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Join us on Skype! Discuss Geo in real time! Just send me a PM with your Skype contact and I will add you to our chat.

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The big idea here is we, as a community, get together and share techniques and approaches on how to best achieve challenging geometry!

All applications and 3d packages are welcome to join in.


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Each week I will post a section or peice of geometry to be modeled as proficiently and expertly as possible.


I will post the weeks model on Saturday, Every week. Along with the updated model, I will update the Original post (This!) With tips and trick on how to achieve the prior weeks geometry, Submitted by various other artists!

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When posting your take on an Object for the thread PLEASE:

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1. Post at least 1 Shaded image for people to accurately judge the model. A dark diffuse, but Highly specular material tends to work best for this purpose. It's encouraged you provide one of these as well as a render, or beauty shot.


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2. LINK to an image that shows the smoothed and unsmoothed wireframe of the model. DO NOT embed it on open forum, As other people may want the challenge of going into the modeling process without knowing how others did it. Like so:


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3.(Optional) Post a nice render or beauty shot of the geometry(with no wires)! There is nothing to say these small (but challenging) pieces of geometry couldn't go into your portfolio under a "sketch" category! Take pride in your work, Render it out nice, and show it off! Example:

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4.(super optional) Bake it, Texture it! This thread doesn't have to be restricted to just the modeling. We can explore how the high poly modeling process pre-determines material definition and how it affects your asset in the long run!



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Thanks for reading and stopping by,

-Mike

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Concept 1

Concept 2

Helpful Resources:

Getting the Threads started--Pedro

Getting a hex shape, while retaining your circles-s6

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Concept

Helpful resources:

Modeling a Bolt Head-JurassicPerk

Proportion Breakdown-s6

Paying Attention To References-s6


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Concept

Helpful resources:

Starting with a sufficient amount of sides- JurrasicPerk

Proportion Sketch- JurrasicPerk




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Concept

Helpful resources:

Workflow Breakdown- JurrasicPerk

Double Smooth Technique JurrasicPerk




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Concept

Helpful resources:

Object Schematic- Paznos

Intersection Doodle commador

Workflow Breakdown JurrasicPerk

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Concept


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Replies

  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    My take on the Bolt! I will post my stab at the other shape once I complete it ^^

    WP0StQa.png

    qKs1aFj.png

    Smoothed and Un-Smoothed Wires
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 8
    I really like the idea of this challenge, let's me challenge myself with new shapes every week, but isn't a big time drain like the envirment challenges.
  • Haftoof
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    Haftoof polycounter lvl 4
    This looks awesome for me to learn a bit about the hard surface modeling. On the bolt should we model the threads?
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    Not unless you really want to :) The main point was the head of the bolt, seeing as it would be the only portion visible on a finished hard surface model.

    Glad to see you guys are going to join in! Working on the complex model as we speak. Should have it in 30-40 minutes give or take.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 7
    Seems like fun, I'll definitely join in whenever I can get this essay over with!
  • JamesTKirk
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    JamesTKirk polycounter lvl 8
    It's a great idea to start such thread!
    Too bad I'm feeling lazy to participate right now.
  • akh
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    akh polycounter lvl 5
  • genwu
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    genwu polycounter lvl 6
    Nice! Thanks for starting something like this! I hope to join in these as much as I can :)
  • Tom3dJay
    My take on the bolt. I went for cad like precision, very sharp edges. (That's a real threading)

    vty6.jpg
  • Tekoppar
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    Tekoppar polycounter lvl 8
    I like this idea, I might attempt the advance one. But the bolt will have to do for now

    bolt.png

    Lowpoly and wires
  • odd_enough
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    odd_enough polycounter lvl 7
    Here's my attempt:

    Wires

    bolt.png
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    Hey, Thanks for Joining in everyone!

    Tekoppar: Good work man! Looks like you pretty much have the Edge flow down, But be careful with the edge width/how close your support loops are to major edges. Even if this was going to be large on screen, there wouldn't be much of an edge to bake to the normal map.

    And if you start with twice as many sides you can add another loop to each side of your bevel and resolve some minor pinching :thumbup:

    @ other guys: fair enough. Bit tight for my taste, but I can't argue If they are enough to bake ^^


    Here is my stab at the advanced. I forgot the cylinders on the inside -_- but whatever.


    1sLFLlH.png


    7YSeozw.png





    Unsmoothed Wires

    Smoothed Wires
  • commador
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    commador polycounter lvl 11
    Cool idea! I need to get some good practice. Here are my bolts. I'll try the advanced shape this evening.

    Wires
    11894558316_41562ea476_o.jpg
  • Haftoof
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    Haftoof polycounter lvl 4
    Here's my finished piece. Might go back and play with the threads later, I would build a single thread and duplicate it downward.

    Built from a 6 sided cylinder that I then extended out for more sides when I needed to move my retaining lines away from the hex-sided top of the screw for the more round areas.

    Few things I would improve:
    - Make the round part more round.
    - Double-check to make sure my topology is okay...

    Any thoughts?

    Wires:
    https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1505121_10102463219215791_1282488791_n.jpg

    1551482_10102463225258681_1532901573_n.jpg
  • chris89
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    chris89 polycounter lvl 10
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    Hey Haftoof, Would you mind splitting your images into Shaded only, And wireframe only? And Link to the wireframe instead of embedding the image.

    I feel this will be a good way for us to make the techniques of other people accessible but not forced on the viewers, Just for those who want to model without any ideas how to accomplish the geometry.


    In regards to the model: You will want to avoid Triangles in MOST cases when working with sub division modeling, As it will create undesirable shading. Study the wireframes of some of the other peoples submissions to see how you can keep it all quads.
  • Haftoof
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    Haftoof polycounter lvl 4
    Updated my post.

    Ahh I see, so you can actually just lead the supporting edges away from the main edge then shift their vertices into the correct position. Sweet, as far as defining the edges main edges that need to be defined, do I have that right? (starting with a proper circle and forming the hex afterwards seems easier than the reverse).
  • odd_enough
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    odd_enough polycounter lvl 7
    @Haftoof: To keep things perfectly round, I use a max script called Regularizer. Great for these types of things. Edit: Oh, looks like you're using Maya. Not sure if it has a similar script or function.
  • akh
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    akh polycounter lvl 5
  • cR45h
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    cR45h polycounter lvl 7
    My take on it;
    challenge_thing_beauty_shot.jpg
    challenge_thing_thing.jpg

    wires

    Oh and for future challenges, we should have a single thing to model, something between the beginner and advanced one. It isn't much of a challenge if people choose what to model imo. :)

    Also, hope this thing lasts. Would be cool to see people improve over time.
  • AkiRa
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    AkiRa polycounter lvl 6
    Awesome idea! Great to finally see a hard surface challenge here! :)

    Here is my try!

    99o6.jpg

    Wires

    Oh and for future challenges, we should have a single thing to model, something between the beginner and advanced one. It isn't much of a challenge if people choose what to model imo. :)

    I totally agree with that! Would be great to find objects which are doable for a beginner but also challenging for advanced modelers! Maybe hard to find stuff which goes with that but I think it's possible. :D
  • odd_enough
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    odd_enough polycounter lvl 7
    This site has no shortage of hard surface subject matter to pick from. Bet you could find something in there that fits the bill.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    AKH: Clever! I hadn't thought about dropping the bolts into those holes :) well done. Keep in mind your edge width though, In order to keep it bakable.

    cR45h: very nice! Nice and bakable. And yes, I agree to an extent. I just don't want the thread to be niched to the very technically proficient, and the very novice. Would you be interested in sending me an example of an object you would consider the middle ground? I'm definitely open to suggestions if this is a common opinion. The cool thing about a weekly format is we can change it as I receive feedback, and quickly refine it into something that works for everyone.

    Thanks for the participation guys!

    Odd_Enough: Thanks Jordan! I'll definitely save that site and use it for future objects.
  • Haftoof
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    Haftoof polycounter lvl 4
    odd_enough wrote: »
    @Haftoof: To keep things perfectly round, I use a max script called Regularizer. Great for these types of things. Edit: Oh, looks like you're using Maya. Not sure if it has a similar script or function.

    I suspect it's just a matter of fore thought, if I just retain the round surface where I need it and duplicate it out I should be able to just connect the points where necessary and continue from there.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    Haftoof: The easiest way to retain roundness when working on something like this is to start from a cylinder and always preserve one face with the original shape of the cylinder (i'll explain what i mean at the end of the week). Using extrude with 0-height and X offset to create loops would be the best way I can think of. If I had maya installed right now I'd try it out. But when the week is over I will walk through how to create the geometry. Or perhaps i'll take the best example and dissect how to create. Maybe a quick video modeling session could be in order. I'll have to wait and see how things play out :)


    Here is a little walk through of how i go about it. You could adjust loops accordly: http://i.imgur.com/VNSu2AO.gif
  • Tar.Vl
  • SaferDan
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    SaferDan polycounter lvl 9
    Love this idea! Will probs do the other one now!

    8vV06kp.png

    Wires

    http://i.imgur.com/eda5ery.png
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    Well done man. Nice even edge width. Little tight, But i'm a majorly biased advocate of fat edges :P And it never (rarely?) hurts to start with plenty of geometry! It's good mentality to have going into the more complex object :)
  • SaferDan
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    SaferDan polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks man, yeah tbh I would have done this a bit fatter if I was baking but meh I will focus more on the next one with those! and yeah as long as its manageable I prefer more geo on cylindrical things.
  • AkiRa
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    AkiRa polycounter lvl 6
    My take on the advanced one!

    ipp6.jpg

    Wires
  • cR45h
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    cR45h polycounter lvl 7
    s6 wrote: »
    cR45h: very nice! Nice and bakable. And yes, I agree to an extent. I just don't want the thread to be niched to the very technically proficient, and the very novice. Would you be interested in sending me an example of an object you would consider the middle ground? I'm definitely open to suggestions if this is a common opinion. The cool thing about a weekly format is we can change it as I receive feedback, and quickly refine it into something that works for everyone.

    I don't have anything particular in mind mostly because I have no clue what would be too difficult for less experienced modellers. I got this from the site odd_enough provided. Its relatively simple after some shape study and I think most people would be able to do it. Again, I'm not too sure and I don't want to exclude novices from it. Maybe we can have recommendations from users every week or something.

    Also, I think we should gradually increase the difficulty as time goes by (assuming the thread doesn't die ofc), so it doesn't get too monotone and boring and it gives everyone a reason to come back. This week is the bolt, next one is something harder etc. etc. That site odd_enough provided has a bit of everything assuming someone will bother to look for a new asset every week.

    Oh and be more specific with each new challenge; are we modelling exactly as the reference or for baking purposes and if yes, give an estimated normal map size so we know how wide to keep the edges. For that bolt, I had a 512x512ish normal map in my mind and did it according to that. It would be a cool thing for more experienced modellers (and everyone) to keep in mind.

    Just my 2 cents:)
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    Looking good! On your wireframe pic It looks like you have an Ngon pulling on the main cylinder, where it meets the box. I can't see if it's causing any shading errors, So it might be nothing, But the more continuous the geometry the better!

    But the smoothed end result is king, So if it looks good, Props :) Just a little small, Hard for me to tell.
    cR45h wrote: »
    Just my 2 cents:)

    I completely agree! But consider this thread is a year old, and we are on to fairly difficult geometry, Where does that leave the beginners? I'd like to keep things accessible for everyone, all the time. They say you can't please everyone all the time, but i think its possible to be broad.


    As you can see, Many people executed the bolt well, and it was a piece of cake. But you can also see a couple of people struggling with it, as well.

    While it is simple to me and you, It isn't fair to other less experienced guys to write it off, In my opinion.

    I'm not arguing your logic here at all, for more advanced users, I completely agree. I'm just unsure of if I want to restrict the thread this early in its life, and start cutting out beginners. Because one of the biggest reasons for this thread is to give the less experienced a space to model and grow in. I think the object you posted would be great for more advanced guys, But it might be a bit daunting to beginners.

    I'm definitely going to keep your suggestions in mind. I'll see how this week plays out then go from there. Keep an eye on your Inbox, I could be bugging you later this week about how to go about things (as well as a few other people).

    Also, I like your idea about proposing a map size in order to determine edge width. I think i'll make that a point next week.
  • AkiRa
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    AkiRa polycounter lvl 6
    @s6: Ahh damn! You're right! Haven't seen it maybe because it does not cause errors so I just overlooked it...^^
    Alright, next wires will be bigger! Thanks for the info! :)
  • Haftoof
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    Haftoof polycounter lvl 4
    s6 wrote: »
    Haftoof: The easiest way to retain roundness when working on something like this is to start from a cylinder and always preserve one face with the original shape of the cylinder (i'll explain what i mean at the end of the week). Using extrude with 0-height and X offset to create loops would be the best way I can think of. If I had maya installed right now I'd try it out. But when the week is over I will walk through how to create the geometry. Or perhaps i'll take the best example and dissect how to create. Maybe a quick video modeling session could be in order. I'll have to wait and see how things play out :)


    Here is a little walk through of how i go about it. You could adjust loops accordly: http://i.imgur.com/VNSu2AO.gif

    Pretty close to what I saw once I thought about it a bit more. I started from the hex, shoulda gone the other way around =)
  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
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    Amsterdam Hilton Hotel insane polycounter
    cool idea for a recurring thread! my only input would be, for advanced objects, try and find stuff that has some compound curves or complex intersections.

    0lCPMRf.jpg

    4QISMuN.jpg

    wires
  • cR45h
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    cR45h polycounter lvl 7
    s6 wrote: »
    I completely agree! But consider this thread is a year old, and we are on to fairly difficult geometry, Where does that leave the beginners? I'd like to keep things accessible for everyone, all the time. They say you can't please everyone all the time, but i think its possible to be broad.

    Silly me forgot to mention that we'll eventually stop somewhere obviously.
    As you can see, Many people executed the bolt well, and it was a piece of cake. But you can also see a couple of people struggling with it, as well.

    While it is simple to me and you, It isn't fair to other less experienced guys to write it off, In my opinion.
    I agree to some extent, but you're forgetting that struggling is a huge part of learning. Doing (relatively) simple bolts all the time doesn't get people too far (i learned this the hard way). I'm hoping we can find some middle ground so the majority can participate while keeping it interesting for more experienced artists. :)

    Edit: Annd you ninja edited. Feel free to hit me up for whatever. I'm interested in making this a thing.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    I agree with both of you (cR45h/Ben). Maybe there is a disconnect with my choice in starting with a couple objects that were too simple. I noted in the OP that they are a little relaxed in compairison to what the usual will be.

    Edit: and I agree, Struggling and pushing yourself as an artist is a huge part of progression, However, I don't want to set people up for failure assigning something that is to far beyond their skillset.

    I will hit up both of you guys before I post next weeks object(s) and see if we can strike that balance.

    Good work, Btw Ben. Good job improvising on portions that were a bit vague. And finally someone who shares my enthusiasm for thick edges :)
  • SonicBlue
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    SonicBlue polycounter lvl 7
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 7
    Why not make this a monthly challenge thing like the other two we already have ? (Environ, and character). :) ? Maybe with like 4-5 pieces to do throughout the month or something.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD interpolator
    I think it's a good idea to have a challenge that is shorter for people that don't want to spend a month waiting for a different challenge to come out.
  • [HP]
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    [HP] polycounter lvl 12
    I love the idea of a lunch time crunch tho, something you don't need to much thought and effort in, but still practice important stuff.
  • odd_enough
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    odd_enough polycounter lvl 7
    My advanced model. The holes on the top section might be spread apart too wide, but yeah.

    Wires


    wk1_adv.png
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 8
    Maaan, Maya crashed when I was half way through with the second piece and I never saved.

    Bolts+HP.PNG

    HP with wires
    LP with wires
  • Cheathem
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    Cheathem polycounter lvl 6
    Love the idea of a weekly, daily, whatever highpoly challenge.
    Here's my attempt at the bolt. The threading was a pain in the ass and I'm still not happy with it.. Gonna give the advanced piece a go tomorrow.

    9OiQR43.png
  • Cheathem
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    Cheathem polycounter lvl 6
    Also, would anyone be willing to post wires? I would love to see'em :D

    Heres Mine:
    RfBICc4.png
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 8
    Cheathem you should hide your wire frames behind a hyperlink rather than embed them. No spoilers!

    edit: check the other posts for links to wire frames if you're curious
  • ZacD
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    ZacD interpolator
    Bartalon wrote: »
    Maaan, Maya crashed when I was half way through with the second piece and I never saved.

    Bolts+HP.PNG

    HP with wires
    LP with wires

    Screw tip, there should only be one spiral going around the threaded part, that is why your threaded part is more diagonal, and the reference is more horizontal.
  • ansh0488
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    ansh0488 polycounter lvl 7
    Advanced :
    A tip for everyone - you can assign smoothing groups also for a better smoothed out model.

    SPI3gAp.jpg

    Wireframes http://i.imgur.com/ba5hT1a.jpg
  • TomDelboo
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    TomDelboo polycounter lvl 6
    I like this thread. Will participate after my exams. Always could use some exercise
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 8
    ZacD wrote:
    Screw tip, there should only be one spiral going around the threaded part, that is why your threaded part is more diagonal, and the reference is more horizontal.

    Yeah, I noticed that after I made it but didn't have time to rework it till now. Good eye! Here's my update

    Bolt+New.PNG
13456713
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