I've been working with substance designer as well, its an awesome program, but there's some things which i really cant find answers to by googling.
How do you use direction and world space normal maps. I'm quite new to position and world space maps, so i dont know how to use them, and i cant find any real articles/videos/tutorials explaining how to. Help me out please?
I finished my first serious prop in SD today. I can now safly say, I'm not going back to using photoshop or any other software, for painting.
What would took me 3-4h in Photoshop, in SD it took only 1h, and now I can generate infinite variations of the same texture as I see fit.
What I would like see, though is an option on export to pack selected textures, into RGBA channels of single file. Or other packing option like tiles.
In my materials I'm now really using lot of 8-bit grayscale masks, only color texture I need now is normal and diffuse, and I have to manually pack all the outputs into single files.
What I would like see, though is an option on export to pack selected textures, into RGBA channels of single file. Or other packing option like tiles.
There are RGBA channel merge/split filters in the library ("RGB-A" and "RGBA" split/merge if I remember correctly their names). So you can already pack multiple maps in a single texture. You can also build your own filter for more advanced options (like splitting a normal map in RGB for one channel, and A for the other one, and add the filter in the library).
everytime I linked many 2k maps my substance ram usage eventually went crazy , and the program got frozen . any tips how to put many bitmap pictures in substance without upsetting the memory?
it works in photoshop , is it because instead of linking it I need to embed to the substance file?
In the hot rod tutorial you mention that the chrome and brass material are more complicated than the car paint. Would you guys be able to show us an example of the graph for these materials?
You cam download the files at the bottom of this page, it will be easier to go look in the graphs directly (They are not that complicsted): http://www.allegorithmic.com/download
Hey guys! I am new to Substance Designer and about to start my first project using it, but I have one question. Can someone explain what is the position map? And can I bake it outside SD like in xNormal or 3ds max?
It's an interpolation between minimum coordinate and max coordinate. So R = min X to max X, G =min Y to max Y, etc... Allows blending top to bottom, left to right, front to back.
Why bake in another app though? Substance bakes maps no other application can, and it does it super fast. Especially special maps like this one i wouldn't do anywhere else.
I had a go at substance designer over the last few weeks and this is the result so far. Im really impressed, took a while to get used to the workflow but I actually like it. I didnt use any in built rust or scratches etc did all my own custom ones and it was fun .
This is still WIP its just screenshots from the SD viewport.
that looks great would be awesome to see some of your graphs the bump might be a tad heavy on some of the wear but overall looks great for a first go at it with substance.
It's an interpolation between minimum coordinate and max coordinate. So R = min X to max X, G =min Y to max Y, etc... Allows blending top to bottom, left to right, front to back.
Why bake in another app though? Substance bakes maps no other application can, and it does it super fast. Especially special maps like this one i wouldn't do anywhere else.
Thanks for the explanation, Xoliul. I have lots of parts that I already baked in max like AO, Tangent and WS normals, so I guess I just have to export it as an obj and bake this map in SD then, no biggie
You don't need hp model to bake out most maps in SD, just your low poly. USe your exploded low poly model to bake maps in SD, and use your normal lp model to preview them.
I have been looking at the hot rod example sudstance files to try and understand sd a bit better and i noticed that the edge and paint wear detail in the car paint isn't being carried across-ed into the normal map. I was wondering if there is a way of having an output node which will allow it to go into the multi material blend and also the normal map blend which could be overlayed onto the other normal maps.
Sorry if this is a stupid question
I have been looking at the hot rod example sudstance files to try and understand sd a bit better and i noticed that the edge and paint wear detail in the car paint isn't being carried across-ed into the normal map. I was wondering if there is a way of having an output node which will allow it to go into the multi material blend and also the normal map blend which could be overlayed onto the other normal maps.
Sorry if this is a stupid question
Actually the multi material blend should carry on the normal map but there was a bug in 4.0.2, it should work in 4.0.3. Also you can use the Normal Combine filter to blend normal maps correctly outside of the material blend (details from the materials with the baked normal map for example).
that looks great would be awesome to see some of your graphs the bump might be a tad heavy on some of the wear but overall looks great for a first go at it with substance.
Hey thanks Rogelio, my graphs are probably rather messy/inefficient as Im only just figuring this stuff out. I totally agree about the bump being a bit heavy, still working on that, Im thinking of drawing a map in photoshop for places where the metal is more clean and shiny because none of the maps I tried in SD are really working for me at the moment.
Im still trying to figure out whats the best way to tile images? Im using transform 2d and then scaling up resolution to 2048 and then diving by half twice all over the place.
Im thinking of drawing a map in photoshop for places where the metal is more clean and shiny because none of the maps I tried in SD are really working for me at the moment.
You could probably paint the map directly in designer if you just need a mask (even as an svg map). Try a bit "Add node > Bitmap > From New Ressource...", once added, you can edit it in the 2D view.
You could probably paint the map directly in designer if you just need a mask (even as an svg map). Try a bit "Add node > Bitmap > From New Ressource...", once added, you can edit it in the 2D view.
You could probably paint the map directly in designer if you just need a mask (even as an svg map). Try a bit "Add node > Bitmap > From New Ressource...", once added, you can edit it in the 2D view.
Hey thanks Rogelio, my graphs are probably rather messy/inefficient as Im only just figuring this stuff out. I totally agree about the bump being a bit heavy, still working on that, Im thinking of drawing a map in photoshop for places where the metal is more clean and shiny because none of the maps I tried in SD are really working for me at the moment.
Im still trying to figure out whats the best way to tile images? Im using transform 2d and then scaling up resolution to 2048 and then diving by half twice all over the place.
heres my main graph
heres the one for the old rusty metal
Looks great pretty clean also which is good.
a few things I see that might help out.
1- I see grayscale conversion nodes attached several times might want to do that earlier along the graph or as early as the bitmap it self turn those to gray scale since they seem gray anyway. Two reason why this is good... It is cleaner and it also saves performance inside substance and if you were to use .sbs files in a engine it would cut cost for the texture to render or bake etc. Try to stick with gray scale as much as possible doing a colorize pass later down the graph.
2- I see the graph jumping from 2048x2048 to 1024x1024 and some nodes start at 512x512. I would make sure most of your maps stay equal all throughout in some cases it is good to hard lock a size etc. But in most cases try to keep the sizes equal and keep them to parent. The substance output size should be done in the doc it self.
3- This is more a nitpick everyone does it different but keep your bitmap nodes organized in one spot of the graph for easy reading and line things up more haha. Small tiny thing no biggy Putting comments and thumb tack points helps also. I kind of had to start from the start and see the steps you went through to see how it all developed.
Overall again really good job it is clean simple not over complex and gets the job done. :thumbup:
Hah! I've been spending most of today in SD and was hoping you guys would do something like that!
I have a feature request: This may have come up already, but I've noticed that gradient tweaks aren't stored in undo history.
I finally have some time to really get my hands dirty and I've got say, this tool is fantastic guys. I love that it's flexible enough to be as useful or unobtrusive in my workflow as I want, and how reorganizing a package doesn't cause all of my links to break. Really well done!
Cheers for the help Froyok. Top man.
Really starting to understand sd and hope to integrate into my workflow more.
The examples i have seen have mainly involved hard surface assets. Has anyone used it on more organic objects?
Hey all, I'm having an issue publishing my substance package for Unity. I managed to get it working last week when my package consisted of simple graphs with D/S/N bitmap inputs into the shader outputs, however this time I'm using a more complex setup which has instanced graphs inside other graphs and map generators.
When I publish the file it crashed out SD4, I tried freezing Outputs Computation which stopped it locking up but the .sbar file is 4kb and doesn't show any materials when imported into Unity. Any considerations I should make when trying to publish like this?
Hey all, I'm having an issue publishing my substance package for Unity. I managed to get it working last week when my package consisted of simple graphs with D/S/N bitmap inputs into the shader outputs, however this time I'm using a more complex setup which has instanced graphs inside other graphs and map generators.
When I publish the file it crashed out SD4, I tried freezing Outputs Computation which stopped it locking up but the .sbar file is 4kb and doesn't show any materials when imported into Unity. Any considerations I should make when trying to publish like this?
We have recently identified memory problems concerning bitmap management when publishing files. Make sure you set the compression to jpeg (select the bitmap resource in the epxlorer and change the parameter in the parameters tab) when it's possible.
1- I see grayscale conversion nodes attached several times might want to do that earlier along the graph or as early as the bitmap it self turn those to gray scale since they seem gray anyway....
Yeah Im starting to learn how to be more efficient thanks for the feedback.
Unfortunately I went to save my sbs file and shortly after it saved I got a blue screen of death and now the file wont open
Thankfully I output the bitmap files just shortly before that so I have them and a slightly broken backup where its lots my model and some bitmaps I baked from it...
Yeah Im starting to learn how to be more efficient thanks for the feedback.
Unfortunately I went to save my sbs file and shortly after it saved I got a blue screen of death and now the file wont open
Thankfully I output the bitmap files just shortly before that so I have them and a slightly broken backup where its lots my model and some bitmaps I baked from it...
Hi Ged, you should have a ".autosave" folder at the same location that your original sbs file. There is (by default) an automatic autosave each 5 minutes (you can also change it in Tools=>Preferences=>Project).
Hi Ged, you should have a ".autosave" folder at the same location that your original sbs file. There is (by default) an automatic autosave each 5 minutes (you can also change it in Tools=>Preferences=>Project).
yeah I found the autosave but for some reason it has lost the baked maps and the model from the autosave, when I load the graphs theres loads of black where the maps should be and when I drag in the model nothing appears.
yeah I found the autosave but for some reason it has lost the baked maps and the model from the autosave, when I load the graphs theres loads of black where the maps should be and when I drag in the model nothing appears.
Make sure you copy the autosaved file along with its resources folder in the same folder as your original file before openeing it, or you may end up with broken references.
Could anyone post a graph for world space normal map, or at least give a hint so i can make one.
In case your wondering i need it for a template, manually baking it from model is quite time consuming especially when you have alot of maps.
Make sure you copy the autosaved file along with its resources folder in the same folder as your original file before openeing it, or you may end up with broken references.
aha! thanks that fixed it!
still working on lighting it but the results look great in toolbag so far!
aha! thanks that fixed it!
still working on lighting it but the results look great in toolbag so far!
That is looking awesome Ged.
Small suggestions add some hair line scratches and increase the roughness a tad more so the contrast between cleaner and dusty rusty is more apparent. Looks awesome keep up the great work.
Small suggestions add some hair line scratches and increase the roughness a tad more so the contrast between cleaner and dusty rusty is more apparent. Looks awesome keep up the great work.
Great stuff Ged
Not sure what rendering is like in marmoset but are you using a linear workflow. Looking a tad flat at the mo? Keep it up
i have a quick question, i have been evaluating substance at work, and i am wondering if i can change the order of the outputs when published? i want the outputs to be in a specific order, like 1,2,3,4, but after i publish when opened in player, i get outputs that are like 3,1,4,2. i notice i can change the order in the base parameters, but this does not change the order on the published substance.
Yep, go in your graph properties, and at the very bottom, you will see a list of your inputs and outputs. You can reorder them through drag and drop there.
Yep, go in your graph properties, and at the very bottom, you will see a list of your inputs and outputs. You can reorder them through drag and drop there.
Hmmm, maybe i am doing it wrong, here is a screen shot of what is going on.
Replies
How do you use direction and world space normal maps. I'm quite new to position and world space maps, so i dont know how to use them, and i cant find any real articles/videos/tutorials explaining how to. Help me out please?
Why didn't someone show me this before
What would took me 3-4h in Photoshop, in SD it took only 1h, and now I can generate infinite variations of the same texture as I see fit.
What I would like see, though is an option on export to pack selected textures, into RGBA channels of single file. Or other packing option like tiles.
In my materials I'm now really using lot of 8-bit grayscale masks, only color texture I need now is normal and diffuse, and I have to manually pack all the outputs into single files.
it works in photoshop , is it because instead of linking it I need to embed to the substance file?
Cheers guys
http://www.allegorithmic.com/download
Why bake in another app though? Substance bakes maps no other application can, and it does it super fast. Especially special maps like this one i wouldn't do anywhere else.
This is still WIP its just screenshots from the SD viewport.
Thanks for the explanation, Xoliul. I have lots of parts that I already baked in max like AO, Tangent and WS normals, so I guess I just have to export it as an obj and bake this map in SD then, no biggie
And yes you don't need HP for position map, it's completely dependent on your LP.
Sorry if this is a stupid question
Actually the multi material blend should carry on the normal map but there was a bug in 4.0.2, it should work in 4.0.3. Also you can use the Normal Combine filter to blend normal maps correctly outside of the material blend (details from the materials with the baked normal map for example).
Hey thanks Rogelio, my graphs are probably rather messy/inefficient as Im only just figuring this stuff out. I totally agree about the bump being a bit heavy, still working on that, Im thinking of drawing a map in photoshop for places where the metal is more clean and shiny because none of the maps I tried in SD are really working for me at the moment.
Im still trying to figure out whats the best way to tile images? Im using transform 2d and then scaling up resolution to 2048 and then diving by half twice all over the place.
heres my main graph
heres the one for the old rusty metal
oh cool didnt realise that.
Any chance of an example
Quite simple :
Looks great pretty clean also which is good.
a few things I see that might help out.
1- I see grayscale conversion nodes attached several times might want to do that earlier along the graph or as early as the bitmap it self turn those to gray scale since they seem gray anyway. Two reason why this is good... It is cleaner and it also saves performance inside substance and if you were to use .sbs files in a engine it would cut cost for the texture to render or bake etc. Try to stick with gray scale as much as possible doing a colorize pass later down the graph.
2- I see the graph jumping from 2048x2048 to 1024x1024 and some nodes start at 512x512. I would make sure most of your maps stay equal all throughout in some cases it is good to hard lock a size etc. But in most cases try to keep the sizes equal and keep them to parent. The substance output size should be done in the doc it self.
3- This is more a nitpick everyone does it different but keep your bitmap nodes organized in one spot of the graph for easy reading and line things up more haha. Small tiny thing no biggy
Overall again really good job it is clean simple not over complex and gets the job done. :thumbup:
I have a feature request: This may have come up already, but I've noticed that gradient tweaks aren't stored in undo history.
I finally have some time to really get my hands dirty and I've got say, this tool is fantastic guys. I love that it's flexible enough to be as useful or unobtrusive in my workflow as I want, and how reorganizing a package doesn't cause all of my links to break. Really well done!
(My hard drive thanks you as well.)
Thank you
Awesome! Been waiting for this feature. Thank you
Really starting to understand sd and hope to integrate into my workflow more.
The examples i have seen have mainly involved hard surface assets. Has anyone used it on more organic objects?
When I publish the file it crashed out SD4, I tried freezing Outputs Computation which stopped it locking up but the .sbar file is 4kb and doesn't show any materials when imported into Unity. Any considerations I should make when trying to publish like this?
We have recently identified memory problems concerning bitmap management when publishing files. Make sure you set the compression to jpeg (select the bitmap resource in the epxlorer and change the parameter in the parameters tab) when it's possible.
Nicolas
Yeah Im starting to learn how to be more efficient thanks for the feedback.
Unfortunately I went to save my sbs file and shortly after it saved I got a blue screen of death and now the file wont open
Thankfully I output the bitmap files just shortly before that so I have them and a slightly broken backup where its lots my model and some bitmaps I baked from it...
Hi Ged, you should have a ".autosave" folder at the same location that your original sbs file. There is (by default) an automatic autosave each 5 minutes (you can also change it in Tools=>Preferences=>Project).
yeah I found the autosave but for some reason it has lost the baked maps and the model from the autosave, when I load the graphs theres loads of black where the maps should be and when I drag in the model nothing appears.
Make sure you copy the autosaved file along with its resources folder in the same folder as your original file before openeing it, or you may end up with broken references.
@jerc, are you part of SD team?
Could anyone post a graph for world space normal map, or at least give a hint so i can make one.
In case your wondering i need it for a template, manually baking it from model is quite time consuming especially when you have alot of maps.
aha! thanks that fixed it!
still working on lighting it but the results look great in toolbag so far!
Yes, we've indeed thought about that. We'll probably do that for resources which are not 16bit per channel and/or color.
That is looking awesome Ged.
Small suggestions add some hair line scratches and increase the roughness a tad more so the contrast between cleaner and dusty rusty is more apparent. Looks awesome keep up the great work.
Great stuff Ged
Not sure what rendering is like in marmoset but are you using a linear workflow. Looking a tad flat at the mo? Keep it up
marmoset toolbag may be set to linear gamma not sure. I think its just a rather bright hdr environment and the white plane making it flat.
There is no native node to handle such gamma conversions, but you can do it yourself with a level node.
-To get an sRGB conversion (linear with power of 2.2) you just need to change the mid point value of you level point. Use a value of 0.575.
-To get a linear conversion (sRGB with a power of 0.4545), also change the mid point value. use a value of 0.425.
I made some custom filters that you can add to you library if you prefer :
Download : http://www.froyok.fr/Substance/Packages/GammaConversion.sbs
Hmmm, maybe i am doing it wrong, here is a screen shot of what is going on.