It looks like there is an issue with the auto-update. Try an uninstall and install fresh with the file on the site here: http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/store
You guys are awesome. thanks again for this. One question how will transparency work? is it read from the color map i see a checkbox that says "alpha from Normal map" should we be putting our alpha in our normal map?
They work pretty well with marmoset, though it helps if you play with the selective brightness sliders a bit. Something like .5-.7 threshold and 2-5 scale usually works.
I tried the new substance updates today with the 2.03, however I noticed some little inconveniences.
It looks like there is not auto-reload of the sbsar, therefore after loading an sbsar the first time, I'm forced to open it again and then manually hit the "place textures" button to get an update. If I do that, the texture size is reset to 256x256 (maybe putting it to 1024 would be better by the way) while the textures displayed are still at the size I chosen.
Also, because of the automatic placement, I can't re-use my diffuse output for loading it in an other slot for example (some of my sbsar store the ambient-occlusion in the Alpha channel of my diffuse).
I can work like that of course, I just wanted to share what I noted.
Hey, guys! I have a nasty self shadowing problem in Toolbag2. Here on the first screenshot I designated the problem areas. This straps have a little bit of thickness and in the most areas opposite faces are deleted, however in some areas they are not because I need them to be there and it's what causing this nasty self shadowing issue. What's more strange is that if I'll hide the body of the car which is the biggest part of the mesh, most of the self shadowing instantly get fixed except for some areas Turning Contact Refinement on and off for the light source do not help. Ofcourse I can just simply delete all the opposite faces on the straps (this fixes the issue), but then I'll loose some of the shadows that they are casting, especially on the wheel and sleeping bag rolls which is not good. Any ideas what's going on here and how this issue can be solved?
This is a known issue and in our bug system, we just haven’t been able to find a fix for it yet. stevston89’s suggestions are a good way to work around it.
Is there a way to get orthographic views, top, right side, front etc ? For example, it seems like setting up a full scene with object, lights etc could get rather complicated just by using the 3d view. Sorry if this exists, I just downloaded it... By the way, thanks for putting this out, it's amazing.
Sorry, there is currently no way to do ortho views.
I have a quick question reguarding AO and the sky light. It seems as though if you don't have a sky light you will not get AO between two seperate objects. This causes things to seem floaty. I made a test scene to illustrate what I am talking about. With the skylight turned on: without the skylight and a point light casting shadows.
This is working as expected. Ambient occlusion only occludes ambient light, in TB2 ambient light comes from the diffuse contribution of the image based lighting. So if you have no sky lighting(ambient light) the AO effect will not have any impact. What you probably want here is a more advanced radiosity or direct occlusion type solution, which unfortunately we do not offer at this time.
Hey I've tried a few times to use a Substance file in Marmoset and it only kind of works... What are the mappings to auto-place textures? I figured out Smoothness/roughness = gloss, but my Metallic map is ending up in the Albedo slot for some reason? I know how to use these things in Substance, so I think something's wrong with Toolbag I can't find any documentation about this! edit: I can give you some suggestions on how to improve it, but I'd like to know the facts of what is there first...
I talked to Laurens a bit about this, but in case anyone else is curious the latest 2.03 build improves Substance Designer 4 support.
Hey, can someone explain to me what the "sRGB colour space" option is doing in the materiel options? I assumed that all normal maps use RGB colour space however my assets seem to behave weird when this is checked. My spec map appears dead and the normal maps don't behave as expected. When turning it off things seem to look better. An explanation to what is happening or if I may be doing something wrong would be really helpful. Thanks everyone.
sRGB color space = gamma space sRGB off = linear space Normal maps should always be linear space, and gloss/roughness maps tend to be linear space as well. So these both default to linear space. Diffuse/albedo and specular maps tend to be sRGB/gamma space, so they default to sRGB, but may be linear space depending on your exact workflow, which is why it is an optional per-texture setting.
Not sure how important it is but 16 bit tiff seems broken for normal maps. Really like the IOR and can't wait to play around with the Dota 2 shaders
Unfortunately this is likely due to our TIFF loader, which loads 16bit content as 8bit, this is not something that we will likely fix any time soon, so use the PSD format instead.
Hey guys, I've released some free HDRishere They work pretty well with marmoset, though it helps if you play with the selective brightness sliders a bit. Something like .5-.7 threshold and 2-5 scale usually works.
I tried the new substance updates today with the 2.03, however I noticed some little inconveniences. It looks like there is not auto-reload of the sbsar, therefore after loading an sbsar the first time, I'm forced to open it again and then manually hit the "place textures" button to get an update. If I do that, the texture size is reset to 256x256 (maybe putting it to 1024 would be better by the way) while the textures displayed are still at the size I chosen. Also, because of the automatic placement, I can't re-use my diffuse output for loading it in an other slot for example (some of my sbsar store the ambient-occlusion in the Alpha channel of my diffuse). I can work like that of course, I just wanted to share what I noted.
Thanks for the feedback, I’ll get this logged in our system here.
The Depth of Field always seems to give a hard transition between blurred an not blurred; this makes it hard to get pretty shots, because if you want, say, half a mesh blurred, you can see a hard transition line. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just the way it is? I've tried all the different settings. If this isn't something that can be fixed, maybe have a "depth" display setting, so you can manually do it in photoshop.
The other thing; the film grain isn't nearly as good as the grain in dDo's viewer. In dDo's viewer, it's animated, and you can select Canon or Nikon, and adjust the ISO level. In Marmoset 2, it feels quite tiled and static, and just not as pretty. (and now that I look, the DOF seems a little better, too; though the controls are less intuitive.)
I have a question, does Marmoset 2 care about geometry being instanced or not? Like if I have 100 meshes that are duplicated compared to combining those 100 meshes into one single mesh then loading it? Will there be any performance differences?
noob question: Do i need the full version to get transparency to work? the trial doesn't have anything in the drop down
If your transparency is defined by a mask then it needs to be in the alpha channel of your albedo texture and the transparency mode should be set to Cutout
Thanks praetus, I was unaware that detail map was dependent on the mask 1 map. Filled the red channel with white and works great. Are there official documents for Marmoset?
If anyone is interested, this might be relevant to Marmoset toolbag now:
I've downloaded and used the trial of Marmoset 1 in the past. I recently tried to download the trial of Marmoset 2, and it keeps telling me that my trial has expired. Anyone else experience this issue?
The Depth of Field always seems to give a hard transition between blurred an not blurred; this makes it hard to get pretty shots, because if you want, say, half a mesh blurred, you can see a hard transition line. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just the way it is? I've tried all the different settings. If this isn't something that can be fixed, maybe have a "depth" display setting, so you can manually do it in photoshop.
Sorry no, there isn’t anything you can do about the bokeh transition, the harsh edge is a technical limitation.
The other thing; the film grain isn't nearly as good as the grain in dDo's viewer. In dDo's viewer, it's animated, and you can select Canon or Nikon, and adjust the ISO level. In Marmoset 2, it feels quite tiled and static, and just not as pretty. (and now that I look, the DOF seems a little better, too; though the controls are less intuitive.)
I have a question, does Marmoset 2 care about geometry being instanced or not? Like if I have 100 meshes that are duplicated compared to combining those 100 meshes into one single mesh then loading it? Will there be any performance differences?
By instancing do you mean duplicating in Toolbag itself vs loading a mesh multiple times? There would be no difference in that case. Meshes instanced in your 3d app will not load in as instanced in toolbag. If you have 100 mesh chunks all using the same material, its probably better to import them as one object rather than individual mesh chunks (unless you need to rearrange them) because this would result in lower draw calls, which probably has some effect on performance.
noob question: Do i need the full version to get transparency to work? the trial doesn't have anything in the drop down
The trial version is not feature limited in any way other than the inability to turn off the watermark. To get alpha you need to select an alpha mode from the transparency module, ie: dithered, cutout or add. You also need to make sure to place your alpha map in the alpha of the diffuse/albedo texture.
Thanks praetus, I was unaware that detail map was dependent on the mask 1 map. Filled the red channel with white and works great. Are there official documents for Marmoset?
I've downloaded and used the trial of Marmoset 1 in the past. I recently tried to download the trial of Marmoset 2, and it keeps telling me that my trial has expired. Anyone else experience this issue?
Please send an email to support@marmoset.co describing the problem and include the email address that you’re using to log in with.
Importing a 16bit .tif from xnormal seems bugged at the moment. It shows up much darker than it actually is (not an sRGB problem). Converting the normal map to 8bit tif or tga works. I swear 16bit worked fine in 201/202?
I have a question, how do I make semitransparent matelials like colored glass or a smoky fade out on an object, or water? Is it possible in Marmoset Toolbag2? I can't find the right way...
Also I've saved my scene with some lights with cast shadows turned on and now when I reload the scene I can't see the lights if I don't turn off cast shadows...how do I fix this?
Importing a 16bit .tif from xnormal seems bugged at the moment. It shows up much darker than it actually is (not an sRGB problem). Converting the normal map to 8bit tif or tga works. I swear 16bit worked fine in 201/202?
Could you please send me the files that you’re having an issue with? Idealy an 8bit nm, 16bit, and the model you’re loading them on.
I know we have an issue with 16bit TIFFs loading as 8bit content (limitation of our loader), but I haven’t seen an issue where the content is loaded at a different brightness.
You can also try re-saving as PSD format in the short term.
I have a question, how do I make semitransparent matelials like colored glass or a smoky fade out on an object, or water? Is it possible in Marmoset Toolbag2? I can't find the right way...
You can add transparency with the transparency module in the material, click the drop-down on the right to select a transparency type, add is good for glass, cutout is standard alpha testing and dithered is good for mostly opaque objects that need fuzzy edges like hair.
Also I've saved my scene with some lights with cast shadows turned on and now when I reload the scene I can't see the lights if I don't turn off cast shadows...how do I fix this?
Interesting, could you please upload your scene so I can have a look? Thanks
Thing is, the lights are included in the scene turntable, so they rotate with the model.
are you sure ?
when i use scene turntable i see only the model rotating and the sky+lights are all fixed.
if you created any custom lights other than by clicking on the light editor then you need to drag that light under the sky so that it doesnt rotate with scene.
even though sky(and its childs) looks like it is child of scene, it does not rotate in scene turntable.
Could you please send me the files that youre having an issue with? Idealy an 8bit nm, 16bit, and the model youre loading them on.
I know we have an issue with 16bit TIFFs loading as 8bit content (limitation of our loader), but I havent seen an issue where the content is loaded at a different brightness.
sent a pm. If someone else could check .16bit tif from xnormal with 2.03 that'd be good in case it is just me with this problem.
EarthQuake and others, another question regarding the metalness workflow. I like to make my albedo first, then I like to make my metalness, and then finally tune gloss. The challenge I run into is when I'm happy with my diffuse, once I apply the metalness map those parts of the model become very dark (which is fine I fully understand that metalness colourizes the spec and darkens the albedo), but this causes me to then have to go back into the albedo and tune that in unison with the metalness map to keep parts of the model from becoming undesirably dark by brightening the albedo. This can be a bit tricky and becomes arbitrary pretty fast.
My question would be, is the automatic darkening of the albedo a linear process, e.g. if I like my diffuse values prior to metalness application could I apply a curves layer in photoshop to exactly reverse the effect of the darkening in the albedo. Let's say I set my metalness to 70% is there some predictable way to determine how dark that will make the albedo, or is some fancy nonlinear darkening going on?
Figured I'd share this in here since it was made with Marmoset in mind. Been chipping away at it over the past few days to try and learn some more advanced materials stuff.
@ malcom - You need to be using the albedo to control your metal reflectance. It doesn't just colorize your spec. The diffuse/ albedo is made black and then it uses the information painted in the albedo as the specular/ reflectance control. If you want to control both the albedo and the reflectance you shouldn't be using the metalness workflow.
sRGB color space = gamma space sRGB off = linear space Normal maps should always be linear space, and gloss/roughness maps tend to be linear space as well. So these both default to linear space. Diffuse/albedo and specular maps tend to be sRGB/gamma space, so they default to sRGB, but may be linear space depending on your exact workflow, which is why it is an optional per-texture setting.
Is there any specific reason for having the roughness map in linear space while the reflectance isn't?
Could you please send me the files that youre having an issue with? Idealy an 8bit nm, 16bit, and the model youre loading them on.
I know we have an issue with 16bit TIFFs loading as 8bit content (limitation of our loader), but I havent seen an issue where the content is loaded at a different brightness.
You can also try re-saving as PSD format in the short term.
I seem to be getting the same issue. 16-bit .tiffs straight out of xNormal are darker and give bad results.
Converting to 16-bit .png or 8-bit .tiff works though the NM shows up brighter in the preview.
Is there a way to mask secondary reflection? I'm interested in using anisotropic shading for something I'm working on, but I don't want there to be aniso spec on certain parts of the same mesh chunk.
Is there much of a difference when texturing for either linear color space or gamma?
Not really in how you create the content, you should use whichever options your target engine (if you’re sending the work out to another engine) uses. If you’re just making it for your portfolio/TB2 exclusively you don’t need to worry about it.
EarthQuake and others, another question regarding the metalness workflow. I like to make my albedo first, then I like to make my metalness, and then finally tune gloss. The challenge I run into is when I'm happy with my diffuse, once I apply the metalness map those parts of the model become very dark (which is fine I fully understand that metalness colourizes the spec and darkens the albedo), but this causes me to then have to go back into the albedo and tune that in unison with the metalness map to keep parts of the model from becoming undesirably dark by brightening the albedo. This can be a bit tricky and becomes arbitrary pretty fast. My question would be, is the automatic darkening of the albedo a linear process, e.g. if I like my diffuse values prior to metalness application could I apply a curves layer in photoshop to exactly reverse the effect of the darkening in the albedo. Let's say I set my metalness to 70% is there some predictable way to determine how dark that will make the albedo, or is some fancy nonlinear darkening going on?
First of to your question, a metalness value of 70% would give you a diffuse value of 30%, its pretty much Diffuse - Metalness value. Now secondly, I would really, really recommend working on all of your maps at once. With modern shaders it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me to set up your diffuse first, as all of the maps (diffuse/spec or metalness/gloss/normals) play a big role in material definition.
another feature request, it would be nice to be able to collect all scene textures and copy+archive them to a folder along with the .tbscene file. sort of like Max's resource collector.
If I use a microfiber map for dust does the black areas render as Lambert? Would this be good idea? Reed
Yeah, black in hte microfiber/fuzz map reverts back to lambert/masks the fuss effect. For dust, you certainly could do this, seems like a good idea to me.
I seem to be getting the same issue. 16-bit .tiffs straight out of xNormal are darker and give bad results. Converting to 16-bit .png or 8-bit .tiff works though the NM shows up brighter in the preview. https://www.dropbox.com/s/haj7sfb1y09yiib/Explosive01.zip Loving TB2 so far. Looks like I know what I'll be getting for my b-day.
Is there a way to have the color of the AO (either the SSAO or the AO and Cavity maps) adjusted in Marmoset 2? Say I want to change the "darks" of the AO to a brown, or something. Is there a way to do that?
AO in Marmoset 2 actually darkens the ambient lighting pass in any area where the AO is darker - or at least that's my understanding of it - so I don't think so.
AO in Marmoset 2 actually darkens the ambient lighting pass in any area where the AO is darker - or at least that's my understanding of it - so I don't think so.
This is correct, in addition to that the AO slot only pulls from a single channel (expecting an 8bit input), so if you load in a 24bit input that is colorized, the result will vary depending on which channel selector you use.
The only way to use colored AO currently is to multiply it directly on your diffuse map.
Im kind of stumped on what the Reflectance color should be. Im working on an rpg7 . For the green rocket paint my Albedo = 5c5126 Microsurface = 808080 Reflectance = 403b2f. For wood guard on the tube i am wanting brown paint (not stained). Albedo = 26221c Microsurface = 656565 Reflectance = 3c3a37.
Replies
However, I still have the black boxes bug
They work pretty well with marmoset, though it helps if you play with the selective brightness sliders a bit. Something like .5-.7 threshold and 2-5 scale usually works.
It looks like there is not auto-reload of the sbsar, therefore after loading an sbsar the first time, I'm forced to open it again and then manually hit the "place textures" button to get an update. If I do that, the texture size is reset to 256x256 (maybe putting it to 1024 would be better by the way) while the textures displayed are still at the size I chosen.
Also, because of the automatic placement, I can't re-use my diffuse output for loading it in an other slot for example (some of my sbsar store the ambient-occlusion in the Alpha channel of my diffuse).
I can work like that of course, I just wanted to share what I noted.
This is a known issue and in our bug system, we just haven’t been able to find a fix for it yet.
stevston89’s suggestions are a good way to work around it.
Sorry, there is currently no way to do ortho views.
This is working as expected. Ambient occlusion only occludes ambient light, in TB2 ambient light comes from the diffuse contribution of the image based lighting. So if you have no sky lighting(ambient light) the AO effect will not have any impact.
What you probably want here is a more advanced radiosity or direct occlusion type solution, which unfortunately we do not offer at this time.
I talked to Laurens a bit about this, but in case anyone else is curious the latest 2.03 build improves Substance Designer 4 support.
sRGB color space = gamma space
sRGB off = linear space
Normal maps should always be linear space, and gloss/roughness maps tend to be linear space as well. So these both default to linear space.
Diffuse/albedo and specular maps tend to be sRGB/gamma space, so they default to sRGB, but may be linear space depending on your exact workflow, which is why it is an optional per-texture setting.
Yes it is, thats a Skyshop demo showcasing my Vespa. I’m famous with the Googles apparently!
See this post: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1972346&postcount=530
And let me know if that clears it up or if you are still having issues when loading a new mesh (if so please get me a copy of that scene).
Unfortunately this is likely due to our TIFF loader, which loads 16bit content as 8bit, this is not something that we will likely fix any time soon, so use the PSD format instead.
Awesome, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the feedback, I’ll get this logged in our system here.
The Depth of Field always seems to give a hard transition between blurred an not blurred; this makes it hard to get pretty shots, because if you want, say, half a mesh blurred, you can see a hard transition line. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just the way it is? I've tried all the different settings. If this isn't something that can be fixed, maybe have a "depth" display setting, so you can manually do it in photoshop.
The other thing; the film grain isn't nearly as good as the grain in dDo's viewer. In dDo's viewer, it's animated, and you can select Canon or Nikon, and adjust the ISO level. In Marmoset 2, it feels quite tiled and static, and just not as pretty. (and now that I look, the DOF seems a little better, too; though the controls are less intuitive.)
If your transparency is defined by a mask then it needs to be in the alpha channel of your albedo texture and the transparency mode should be set to Cutout
If anyone is interested, this might be relevant to Marmoset toolbag now:
http://media.steampowered.com/apps/dota2/workshop/Dota2ShaderMaskGuide.pdf
Sorry no, there isn’t anything you can do about the bokeh transition, the harsh edge is a technical limitation.
Thanks for the feedback!
By instancing do you mean duplicating in Toolbag itself vs loading a mesh multiple times? There would be no difference in that case.
Meshes instanced in your 3d app will not load in as instanced in toolbag.
If you have 100 mesh chunks all using the same material, its probably better to import them as one object rather than individual mesh chunks (unless you need to rearrange them) because this would result in lower draw calls, which probably has some effect on performance.
The trial version is not feature limited in any way other than the inability to turn off the watermark. To get alpha you need to select an alpha mode from the transparency module, ie: dithered, cutout or add. You also need to make sure to place your alpha map in the alpha of the diffuse/albedo texture.
We have some tutorials here: http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn but no official documentation/help file at this time.
Please send an email to support@marmoset.co describing the problem and include the email address that you’re using to log in with.
if not, please consider that a feature request.
middle click on anywhere on mesh and then alt+F to focus on that.
MMB to auto focus on any point, and then click "sticky focus" in the camera properties, this will attempt to retain focus on that point.
sorry, i meant to say camera framing and not focus.
the idea is to be able to orbit camera on any point on mesh.
Also I've saved my scene with some lights with cast shadows turned on and now when I reload the scene I can't see the lights if I don't turn off cast shadows...how do I fix this?
Ah ok I see, thanks for the suggestion.
Could you please send me the files that you’re having an issue with? Idealy an 8bit nm, 16bit, and the model you’re loading them on.
I know we have an issue with 16bit TIFFs loading as 8bit content (limitation of our loader), but I haven’t seen an issue where the content is loaded at a different brightness.
You can also try re-saving as PSD format in the short term.
Thanks for the feedback.
You can add transparency with the transparency module in the material, click the drop-down on the right to select a transparency type, add is good for glass, cutout is standard alpha testing and dithered is good for mostly opaque objects that need fuzzy edges like hair.
Interesting, could you please upload your scene so I can have a look? Thanks
I need to make turntable renders of some characters and I can't figure out how to only have the character mesh rotating instead of the entire scene.
It was pretty straightforward in Toolbag 1, but the only things I seem to find are Scene Turntable, Camera Turntable, or Sky Turntable.
Thing is, the lights are included in the scene turntable, so they rotate with the model.
Any way to fix that?
Thanks!
are you sure ?
when i use scene turntable i see only the model rotating and the sky+lights are all fixed.
if you created any custom lights other than by clicking on the light editor then you need to drag that light under the sky so that it doesnt rotate with scene.
even though sky(and its childs) looks like it is child of scene, it does not rotate in scene turntable.
Try parenting all lights to the sky object, this way they shouldn't rotate with the model when scene is the turntable type.
sent a pm. If someone else could check .16bit tif from xnormal with 2.03 that'd be good in case it is just me with this problem.
My question would be, is the automatic darkening of the albedo a linear process, e.g. if I like my diffuse values prior to metalness application could I apply a curves layer in photoshop to exactly reverse the effect of the darkening in the albedo. Let's say I set my metalness to 70% is there some predictable way to determine how dark that will make the albedo, or is some fancy nonlinear darkening going on?
http://www.fx81.com/temp3/tb2/PBP/PBP.7z
sort of like Max's resource collector.
Styrofoam one.
Reed
Is there any specific reason for having the roughness map in linear space while the reflectance isn't?
I seem to be getting the same issue. 16-bit .tiffs straight out of xNormal are darker and give bad results.
Converting to 16-bit .png or 8-bit .tiff works though the NM shows up brighter in the preview.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/haj7sfb1y09yiib/Explosive01.zip
Loving TB2 so far. Looks like I know what I'll be getting for my b-day.
Is there a way to mask secondary reflection? I'm interested in using anisotropic shading for something I'm working on, but I don't want there to be aniso spec on certain parts of the same mesh chunk.
Not really in how you create the content, you should use whichever options your target engine (if you’re sending the work out to another engine) uses. If you’re just making it for your portfolio/TB2 exclusively you don’t need to worry about it.
Thanks! I will have a look.
First of to your question, a metalness value of 70% would give you a diffuse value of 30%, its pretty much Diffuse - Metalness value.
Now secondly, I would really, really recommend working on all of your maps at once. With modern shaders it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me to set up your diffuse first, as all of the maps (diffuse/spec or metalness/gloss/normals) play a big role in material definition.
Thanks, another for the list.
Yeah, black in hte microfiber/fuzz map reverts back to lambert/masks the fuss effect. For dust, you certainly could do this, seems like a good idea to me.
This is just what we feel is common from our experience, but we know it may vary, so we have the option available to switch.
I will check it out, thanks!
This is correct, in addition to that the AO slot only pulls from a single channel (expecting an 8bit input), so if you load in a 24bit input that is colorized, the result will vary depending on which channel selector you use.
The only way to use colored AO currently is to multiply it directly on your diffuse map.
Im kind of stumped on what the Reflectance color should be. Im working on an rpg7 . For the green rocket paint my Albedo = 5c5126 Microsurface = 808080 Reflectance = 403b2f. For wood guard on the tube i am wanting brown paint (not stained). Albedo = 26221c Microsurface = 656565 Reflectance = 3c3a37.
Metal Reference
Brown Paint Reference
Reed