Going to second danpaz. The pauldrons feel very even proportion wise to everything else (Axe's head, goat's head, forearm, etc.). I think if you tweak the size, it will look much better.
The weapon is also very plain compared to the set so they don't feel like they are part of the same thing. Maybe if you add those signature horns, the set will look more cohesive?
Personally I like the weapon the way it is. It's not overly designed, reads well, has a wonderful asian flair to it, and aesthetically could be used with any other Axe set. I don't think every single item of every submission this year needs to have Ram features on it.
I think if anything I would like to see a tiny, tiny bit more blue in the design to match the helmet feathers. Maybe in the weaving under the arms or the cloud design on the waist piece? Just tiny accents would be nice, maybe.
Love the design but I definitely feel you should go with the alternate horn pauldrons. The originals will look awkward and front-loaded from the top-down perspective.
Very good points everyone, thank you so much for taking the time to write down these constructive suggestions. This is all extremely useful as it gives me "fresh eyes", so to speak. I will definitely try to put all this into practice, hopefully in a few days !
Yeah Sweetcrazy, I need to check all that at the blockout stage ... hopefully most of it will fit !
Besides that, here is a Lone Druid design in the works for Bounchfx - complete with Spirit Ram and True Form weregoat :
That's going to be a lot of work but I am looking forward to it ! I still got to test a few things out at the blockout stage for that one too.
wow, okay, i am really trying not to freak out right now, holy mother that is one awesome concept, just, wow.
Though, imo, those bare hoofs are making the true-form and the summon look kinda unaggressive/ not fiercely enough considerring how the attack animations of the two work, i think by adding some kind of claws/blades like the one on the bracer(human form) would somehow solve the problem.
And yeah, not sure how Valve would react to this, but great idea and great concept anyway
Such a cute concept! Likewise though I'm not sure how Valve (or the community, really) would react to changing a bear into a goat.
But for New Bloom, who knows what goes :P
well.. they were fine with changing a bear into a red panda, so... hehe. there's also tons of examples of other hero mounts being drastically different creatures. The spell is called 'summon spirit bear', sure, but.... red panda!
The idea here is half bear half goat, the bodies of both are inspired by traditional bears so hopefully I can make that come across blatantly in the 3d version. This bear just had a goat for a father. Crazy shit happens when its New Bloom what what!
it's gonna be tight getting this in before the deadline T___T, hoping to start sometime early next week !
I thought it was Kotl to begin with from the face and the blues (and was very excited i must say), but looking at the concept overall I really like it. As for using a goat in place of a bear, I think it comes across that its a weird half-half mythical type creature so I wouldnt worry too much about it. The one thing Id say be careful about is not letting the True Form look too much like a minotaur since thats not a goat (although that might be unavoidable)
I like the concept but I think you changed too much of him, when I first saw it I was wondering what hero it was, it may just be the colors though. About the Goat form/Bear, the bear is pretty standard since Lond Druid is from the "Bear Clan", So I think your best bet is to make a Hybrid. So clawed hoofs and sharp teeth.
I personally loved it the concept, I love this kind of stuff coming out, brings so much diversity to the dota universe!
But to be fair I'm divided, a part of me says "MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW", and a more conservative says "nah man it's lore breaking, it's too risky, people will freak out"
But like GhostDetector said above a mix between bear with goat horns can perfectly work.
I really would love to see the community's reaction to this, it's mindblowing nonethless!
I have to agree with the comments about the goat hooves. I don't mind it being lore breaking, I just think it will be extremely awkward having goat hooves with the bear's attack animations and sounds.
Thank you so much for the constructive comments - this is all very helpful !
I could totally see the Beargoats looking more aggressive with some added sharp claws, and I think it could work very well with some metal engravings like Quock mentionned. Will test this out !
As for the colors, I think I see what you guys mean. I just tested a few things real quick and indeed I think there are ways to bend it into something more LDesque without changing the core of the design too much :
Nothing definitive, but I totally see the merit of changing things a bit to avoid any issue when it comes to instantly recognizing the hero. The pose will help a lot of course, but indeed picking the right colors is paramount. Thanks !!
I have to agree with the comments about the goat hooves. I don't mind it being lore breaking, I just think it will be extremely awkward having goat hooves with the bear's attack animations and sounds.
I looked at all the animations and to be honest, the bear just swipes most of the time, which still works fine and if anything that shit is going to hurt a lot more coming from a hoof than a hand XD, but as pior said yeah, I think we might toy around because it's a very valid point and worth thinking about more
But like GhostDetector said above a mix between bear with goat horns can perfectly work.
I thought we had actually achieved a pretty good balance considering the only parts that are really goat is the horns/face and the hooves, but maybe we need to dial the back a bit if it's not reading as such?
thanks again so much for the feedback! it's super useful, this is a risky one hehe
I honestly think that the thing that throws me off the most is the headpiece. I just doesn't really read as something LD would wear, to me anyways. It looks a bit too pompous. Have you considered giving him a hairstyle instead? Other than that, great set.
That bear... for the glory of satan I guess?
(sorry I've played too much Isaac lately)
In all seriousness thought, I feel that that bear is... a bit too much. I might have nightmares with it. It seems like Druid just doesn't fit this ram new year. Your concepts are stellar as always, but the idea just doesn't work this time IMO.
I have to agree with the comments about the goat hooves. I don't mind it being lore breaking, I just think it will be extremely awkward having goat hooves with the bear's attack animations and sounds.
Pick a few of these up at the side shop and tape them on, problem solved :poly136:
Hehe Kite good catch, and perfectly lore fitting too !
I have to say I really appreciate all the comments and constructive criticism, it really helps and give us a fresh perspective on the overall design. And good point about the headpiece Insanephobia, I think I see what you mean - it might need to be more opened up, as in, less warrior like and more ceremonial. I also feel like revealing bare arms instead of covering them up with cloth might help recalling the original hero ... There's so many possibilities !
Here's an update with some early adjustments based on feedback - basically tweaking things to make the outfit a bit more LD-like. The first tweak was to lighten up the arms, by removing the sleeve on the claw arm and giving him a more straightforward leather bracer on the other. I feel like this is already making him closer to the original (hopefully !)
Aaand another update for today. Sorry for the spam - it's just kind of fun to post updates regularly, especially to see if the subtle tweaks being made make it feel more LD like to you guys (or not ?)
I think the tunic now needs a few more hints of the original cyan swirls/trims, especially since they all glow ingame when using Rabid ...
i like your concept, but...but... IMO, LD giving me impression is like a man live in jungle for long time and isolate himself from society. (hence that is why his name is Forever Alone :P)
while the whole armor of LD looks like he already blend in with chinese society...
i wonder if remove all generic chinese general/ soldier armor element and add some Mongol warrior style will do or not. hmmm. (maybe more thick cloth, fur, leather, fewer piece of armor , or more worn-off effect or battle damage effect)
Oh of course yeah, it was never meant to be a direct translation of LD - the idea was, indeed, to turn him into a chinese warrior, part of an army (and from there, not so "alone" anymore, for sure !)
Now I can totally see what you mean with your description (basically a lone chinese hermit with hand-made clothes and gear), but in this specific case it goes without saying that it would be another design altogether and not just a tweak . It's totally worth exploring though, and I will very likely sketch it out just for the sake of seeing what it could look like.
Now I guess my question would be : do you guys think that a set has to fully play on the lore of the original hero ? Wouldn't that be too limiting somehow, especially in the context of New Bloom ?
I have to admit that when it comes to custom set design my main concern is always the perception from the game camera much more so than the lore - if a hero is not instantly recognizable when playing, then without a doubt things need to be addressed. But then again, the animations play a huge part in that too ...
Oh of course yeah, it was never meant to be a direct translation of LD - the idea was, indeed, to turn him into a chinese warrior, part of an army (and from there, not so "alone" anymore, for sure !)
Now I can totally see what you mean with your description, which is another design brief altogether ; I guess my question would be : do you guys think that a set has to fully play on the lore of the original hero ? Wouldn't that be too limiting somehow ?
that's true too. but then i think valve purposely write the lore with many plot hole so artist can fill in the gap or expand the lore story with set designs too.
okay TBH, that lone druid set kinda looks like newly hired chinese bear/ram summoner to fight with some intruders from outside great wall of china haha.
Ha, sorry, I was just editing/clarifying my post while you were replying (but the gist of it remains unchanged, so no problem here).
But yeah, these are all very valid points and I am by all means taking them into consideration. It's such a juggle ! But it sure is a fun challenge to tackle, as always ...
Now the funny part is that I have probably been influenced a lot by the amount of Three Kingdoms stuff I have been soaking up, whereas LD is probably more of a Journey To The West kind of type
haha, i just want to voice out when i see this awesome set...
anyway, maybe perhaps i hope you can modify beard style into mode macho chinese general style instead of keeping this emperor beard (because it kinda looks like timid person)
in many chinese historical movies/ dramas , they have 2 types of officer (文官 & 武官, i don't have english name for that) , one is majority handle all documents, another one is military type.
so what i want to say is the lone druid set (dat beard) kinda looks like officer / chancellor type who always work in palace 24/7.
as for the armor colour pallet poll in post #432, i perefer #2 black and deep purple, gold armor looks like only weakling emperor will wear that only haha. (chinese emperor stereotype is weak because always working in palace and never go out outside, also always tend to die early because of political assassination in drama haha)
Hehe yeah man, I am deep into the Cao Cao story at the moment (right after the death of Lubu and Daiochan) and I can totally see the two types of characters you are talking about, with some protagonists like Liu Bei actually switching from one archetype to the other. You are right on point ! (and I am totally dropping chinese names here in an atempt to justify spending way too much time watching Chinese TV these days )
Here's a little test - basically playing off the "so tough he doesn't need a helmet" vibe (just like the spacemarines in Warhammer 40k) and I feel like this might bridge the gap between a rugged druid and an "army invoker" type. This could be the main style, basically cementing the idea of LD being the "old dude with white hair" with the hat being a bonus variant. (There could even be a bit more of a hint of a Chinese hairstyle going on, with the hair being slicked back with a top bun, but that's a detail really.)
Great idea with the chinese warrior LD, but, carefull with hou much armor you put on him.. given that he is related to nature and forests.. it's kind of dangerous to have him dressed in full metal armor, same with the ram bear.. it's a bear.. it needs to bite and scratch, also to think in a realistic way, the hero GROWS into the bear, so it would make sence to have pieces of the original hero armor.. not change it.. I really hope it get's in, there was a looooong time since I haven't seen a new LD set in game..
I would love to have the hero look like you made it but he is a tree hugger, immortal, ecologist.. Hard for me to believe the metal armor fit's his lore
I totally agree about the transformation - I just removed the plating from the True Form as the "magically appearing" plates were not sitting well with me either (gotta trust the gut feeling !)
I also agree about the way this is riding the fine line lore wise ... Maybe it is just a matter of writing it as a doppelg
I sincerely want to thank everyone who gave honest and constructive feedback about the design in this thread. I feel like we eventually managed to steer the set back into something that can be instantly recognized as LD while also avoiding any over detailing. Bounch and I really like the following image, because it shows the clear ties of the set to the visual language of the default outfit. Just like with the Bloodseeker set this is something that we consider to be extremely important, because cosmetics should not interfere with gameplay.
The summon and ultimate forms were a challenge, but I think it was all worth it !
Now on to the next one !
Turned out great! I like the sense of material (fur aside, I'll get to that later) and colours as is usual with your concepts. I do think the critiques you guys got on reddit and the workshop about the ram-bear not being... well bear enough are valid, though there was really no way around that if you wanted to push the concept in the direction you guys chose.
How was the fur on the true form and ram-bear done? I noticed the fur surfacing over most of the 2 models wasn't sculpted in - was it all texture painting? If it was I do think it shows though - places along the surface I would have expected normal map shading don't seem to have them for e.g.
Replies
The weapon is also very plain compared to the set so they don't feel like they are part of the same thing. Maybe if you add those signature horns, the set will look more cohesive?
I think if anything I would like to see a tiny, tiny bit more blue in the design to match the helmet feathers. Maybe in the weaving under the arms or the cloud design on the waist piece? Just tiny accents would be nice, maybe.
New Bloom sure is exciting !
Besides that, here is a Lone Druid design in the works for Bounchfx - complete with Spirit Ram and True Form weregoat :
That's going to be a lot of work but I am looking forward to it ! I still got to test a few things out at the blockout stage for that one too.
Though, imo, those bare hoofs are making the true-form and the summon look kinda unaggressive/ not fiercely enough considerring how the attack animations of the two work, i think by adding some kind of claws/blades like the one on the bracer(human form) would somehow solve the problem.
And yeah, not sure how Valve would react to this, but great idea and great concept anyway
But for New Bloom, who knows what goes :P
well.. they were fine with changing a bear into a red panda, so...
The idea here is half bear half goat, the bodies of both are inspired by traditional bears so hopefully I can make that come across blatantly in the 3d version. This bear just had a goat for a father. Crazy shit happens when its New Bloom what what!
it's gonna be tight getting this in before the deadline T___T, hoping to start sometime early next week !
You're crazy. XD
from his lore
I guess he's a goat man now
But to be fair I'm divided, a part of me says "MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW", and a more conservative says "nah man it's lore breaking, it's too risky, people will freak out"
But like GhostDetector said above a mix between bear with goat horns can perfectly work.
I really would love to see the community's reaction to this, it's mindblowing nonethless!
I could totally see the Beargoats looking more aggressive with some added sharp claws, and I think it could work very well with some metal engravings like Quock mentionned. Will test this out !
As for the colors, I think I see what you guys mean. I just tested a few things real quick and indeed I think there are ways to bend it into something more LDesque without changing the core of the design too much :
Nothing definitive, but I totally see the merit of changing things a bit to avoid any issue when it comes to instantly recognizing the hero. The pose will help a lot of course, but indeed picking the right colors is paramount. Thanks !!
I looked at all the animations and to be honest, the bear just swipes most of the time, which still works fine and if anything that shit is going to hurt a lot more coming from a hoof than a hand XD, but as pior said yeah, I think we might toy around because it's a very valid point and worth thinking about more
I thought we had actually achieved a pretty good balance considering the only parts that are really goat is the horns/face and the hooves, but maybe we need to dial the back a bit if it's not reading as such?
thanks again so much for the feedback! it's super useful, this is a risky one hehe
and i thought...this was light keeper concept....
(sorry I've played too much Isaac lately)
In all seriousness thought, I feel that that bear is... a bit too much. I might have nightmares with it. It seems like Druid just doesn't fit this ram new year. Your concepts are stellar as always, but the idea just doesn't work this time IMO.
Pick a few of these up at the side shop and tape them on, problem solved :poly136:
I have to say I really appreciate all the comments and constructive criticism, it really helps and give us a fresh perspective on the overall design. And good point about the headpiece Insanephobia, I think I see what you mean - it might need to be more opened up, as in, less warrior like and more ceremonial. I also feel like revealing bare arms instead of covering them up with cloth might help recalling the original hero ... There's so many possibilities !
This is all very exciting
I don't think there would be a problem ingame though. I mean he's not on a horse, and he'll have his bear with him most of the time.
I love it, I hope you keep the final design similar to your concept art! :thumbup:
Here's an update with some early adjustments based on feedback - basically tweaking things to make the outfit a bit more LD-like. The first tweak was to lighten up the arms, by removing the sleeve on the claw arm and giving him a more straightforward leather bracer on the other. I feel like this is already making him closer to the original (hopefully !)
An update on the blockout/basemesh, for the sake of sharing all the steps :
That about wraps it up for the hero itself for now - moving on to the goatbears !
I think the tunic now needs a few more hints of the original cyan swirls/trims, especially since they all glow ingame when using Rabid ...
while the whole armor of LD looks like he already blend in with chinese society...
i wonder if remove all generic chinese general/ soldier armor element and add some Mongol warrior style will do or not. hmmm. (maybe more thick cloth, fur, leather, fewer piece of armor , or more worn-off effect or battle damage effect)
Now I can totally see what you mean with your description (basically a lone chinese hermit with hand-made clothes and gear), but in this specific case it goes without saying that it would be another design altogether and not just a tweak
Now I guess my question would be : do you guys think that a set has to fully play on the lore of the original hero ? Wouldn't that be too limiting somehow, especially in the context of New Bloom ?
I have to admit that when it comes to custom set design my main concern is always the perception from the game camera much more so than the lore - if a hero is not instantly recognizable when playing, then without a doubt things need to be addressed. But then again, the animations play a huge part in that too ...
that's true too. but then i think valve purposely write the lore with many plot hole so artist can fill in the gap or expand the lore story with set designs too.
okay TBH, that lone druid set kinda looks like newly hired chinese bear/ram summoner to fight with some intruders from outside great wall of china haha.
But yeah, these are all very valid points and I am by all means taking them into consideration. It's such a juggle ! But it sure is a fun challenge to tackle, as always ...
Now the funny part is that I have probably been influenced a lot by the amount of Three Kingdoms stuff I have been soaking up, whereas LD is probably more of a Journey To The West kind of type
anyway, maybe perhaps i hope you can modify beard style into mode macho chinese general style instead of keeping this emperor beard (because it kinda looks like timid person)
in many chinese historical movies/ dramas , they have 2 types of officer (文官 & 武官, i don't have english name for that) , one is majority handle all documents, another one is military type.
so what i want to say is the lone druid set (dat beard) kinda looks like officer / chancellor type who always work in palace 24/7.
as for the armor colour pallet poll in post #432, i perefer #2 black and deep purple, gold armor looks like only weakling emperor will wear that only haha. (chinese emperor stereotype is weak because always working in palace and never go out outside, also always tend to die early because of political assassination in drama haha)
Here's a little test - basically playing off the "so tough he doesn't need a helmet" vibe (just like the spacemarines in Warhammer 40k) and I feel like this might bridge the gap between a rugged druid and an "army invoker" type. This could be the main style, basically cementing the idea of LD being the "old dude with white hair" with the hat being a bonus variant. (There could even be a bit more of a hint of a Chinese hairstyle going on, with the hair being slicked back with a top bun, but that's a detail really.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/bounchpiorLDramsetwip005-small_zps499f75fa.jpg~original
I'll sleep on it and see how it feels tomorrow
I would love to have the hero look like you made it but he is a tree hugger, immortal, ecologist.. Hard for me to believe the metal armor fit's his lore
I totally agree about the transformation - I just removed the plating from the True Form as the "magically appearing" plates were not sitting well with me either (gotta trust the gut feeling !)
I also agree about the way this is riding the fine line lore wise ... Maybe it is just a matter of writing it as a doppelg
gorilla will do :P
Also, an update on materials :
Looking great! loved the new hairstyle with white hair, feels like it's on the right direction now!
Only 10 days left, hope you finish on time!
Here is the link to the collection :
Lord of the Eastern Clan for Lone Druid
I sincerely want to thank everyone who gave honest and constructive feedback about the design in this thread. I feel like we eventually managed to steer the set back into something that can be instantly recognized as LD while also avoiding any over detailing. Bounch and I really like the following image, because it shows the clear ties of the set to the visual language of the default outfit. Just like with the Bloodseeker set this is something that we consider to be extremely important, because cosmetics should not interfere with gameplay.
The summon and ultimate forms were a challenge, but I think it was all worth it !
Now on to the next one !
A shame that the new bloom has a deadline
How was the fur on the true form and ram-bear done? I noticed the fur surfacing over most of the 2 models wasn't sculpted in - was it all texture painting? If it was I do think it shows though - places along the surface I would have expected normal map shading don't seem to have them for e.g.