can you list 5 modelling tools that maya does not have that you think are essential? other then the fact that some people like the modifier stack that max has apposed to maya nodes i don't really see anyone listing the tools they want.
i try not to update until the service packs comes out. most of the showstopper bugs are fixed by then.
something you can try is to go into the plugin manager and uncheck all the plugins. only enable plugins as you need them. that seems to work for me. i don't have to many crashes. maybe a few more then the old alias versions but nothing like what you seem to have.
Thanks I will try that out.
It's not that maya doesn't have the tools, it's that they aren't set up in a way to create a fast and efficient workflow.
I listed a few of the things in the new toolkit that are great features but just aren't useful because they aren't on all the time. If I happen to need to do something that kicks the "modeling toolkit" out of the active tool slot then I lose all of the new features.
Maya suffers from being unorganized. Things just aren't quite in the right place to make them useful.
For instance, in softimage while the translate tool widget is active 3 small buttons appear over the viewport at the bottom. The first one toggles on and off tweak mode, the second toggles whether or not to slide on the surface and the third toggles on and off merging verts. On top of this if you middle click any edge or face it will automatically align the translate or scale tool to it. I don't have to dig through menus or worry about extra shit. Everything is at my fingertips all while inside the move tool! When you add in hot keys it only sweetens the deal.
Maya's biggest problem is it's UI layout and while marking menus are very nice, they don't solve the problem. Maya's second biggest problem are tools that produce unwanted results.
Beveling in maya can be a pain in the ass because it doesn't keep the bevel width uniform across more complex shapes. Softimage has a checkbox that fixes this instantly. The list goes on and on.
Maybe it's time to look into a dedicated modeling mode for maya. Right now the dropdown in the top left says "polygons" and that is very accurate for what it does. It would be way better to have a super streamlined UI for modeling at the click of a button.
Side rant: Hotkeys! Maya desperately needs to adopt the idea of displaying what every tool's hotkey is currently set to right in the menu. So many other software packages(and video games) do this and it works very well.
sure but they cant find everything... and they dont do what we do... modeling the whole day... they dont see some bugs cause they think it should work like this...
sure but they cant find everything... and they dont do what we do... modeling the whole day... they dont see some bugs cause they think it should work like this...
exactly.
so the solution is to actually hire QA that knows how to look for bugs specific to the modeling tools.
you cant sell the software for high price and then expect free QA service from the same customers.
may be make bug reporting and beta testing a paid job instead of free service.
Autodesk does hire QA that know what theyre doing but they have a multitude of jobs outside sitting around modeling to find bugs.
I have very rarely submitted a bug report with my email and steps typed out intelligently that I have not received a direct answer or recognition of a bug from.
On average I see about 50 bug fixes every prerelease so getting frustrated about them doesnt really help the process, submit the report with details and if someone gets back to you provide them with the necessary information.
if its more about the workflow then i can understand the argument a little better. the older 3d apps have gone through multiple paradigm shifts and the focus of the modelling tools has been shifting and added in a piecemeal fashion. but the old blanket argument that maya does not have the tools does not hold much water anymore. there is always extra options and tweaking that can be added to the tools but all the basics are in there whether you like the implementation or not.
the problem with workflow is that its very subjective. two people can have a very different workflows and get the same model done in the same amount of time. both of them think there workflow is better but there is no objective way to say that one is better then the other.
its interesting that you bring up the softimage manipulator. for my workflow that would drive me crazy to have to work like that. i keep the manipulator hidden most of the time and have a toggle hotkey that brings it up if i need it.
i focus on hotkeys, marking menus and the shelf, most of the interface is hidden. those manip options are hotkey toggles. the marking menu has a sensitivity all the way down to the component level. you can add anything contextual you want in there. you can mix and match tools and scripts in the shelf to eliminate most menu diving. the whole design is setup so you can start from scratch and build up your toolbox in a way that is specific to how you work. the default interface and hotkeys are never going match that. i don't really like the default interface in maya or max but in maya you can pretty much design your own.
if its more about the workflow then i can understand the argument a little better. the older 3d apps have gone through multiple paradigm shifts and the focus of the modelling tools has been shifting and added in a piecemeal fashion. but the old blanket argument that maya does not have the tools does not hold much water anymore. there is always extra options and tweaking that can be added to the tools but all the basics are in there whether you like the implementation or not.
the problem with workflow is that its very subjective. two people can have a very different workflows and get the same model done in the same amount of time. both of them think there workflow is better but there is no objective way to say that one is better then the other.
its interesting that you bring up the softimage manipulator. for my workflow that would drive me crazy to have to work like that. i keep the manipulator hidden most of the time and have a toggle hotkey that brings it up if i need it.
i focus on hotkeys, marking menus and the shelf, most of the interface is hidden. those manip options are hotkey toggles. the marking menu has a sensitivity all the way down to the component level. you can add anything contextual you want in there. you can mix and match tools and scripts in the shelf to eliminate most menu diving. the whole design is setup so you can start from scratch and build up your toolbox in a way that is specific to how you work. the default interface and hotkeys are never going match that. i don't really like the default interface in maya or max but in maya you can pretty much design your own.
I'm not sure I understand your gripe with the softimage manipulator, you can be in the tool with the manipulator hidden and still have access to everything I listed. Softimage has the toggle for visibility just like how you said you use it. All by default, no special set up required. (Although I always take the time to setup my hotkeys too.)
My main argument isn't that maya doesn't have the tools, it's that the tools are either buggy, produce unwanted results, don't have the extra checkbox they need to be useful, or are buried in menus somewhere that are annoying to get to.
Having used maya for several years, within a few days of switching to softimage I was able to complete roughly the same amount of modeling work in much less time. That to me is a problem. Because I'd rather use maya from start to finish instead of jumping from softimage to maya at the end of modeling for uvs, rigging, animation and exporting the final game mesh.
i was just illustrating that workflow and interface is subjective. while you might enjoy softimage's manipulator i prefer maya's and prefer the extra functionality as separate attributes that i can choose to use or not depending no my workflow choices.
on your last point i have found that just about every app i have tried to model in with the exception of houdini takes one or two days to get the hang of. i think at some point you have enough experience that learning a new interface and workflow becomes fairly easy as long as the tools are generally the same. i had to train a few veteran max users to use maya and they had everything down in under a week.
Autodesk does hire QA that know what theyre doing but they have a multitude of jobs outside sitting around modeling to find bugs.
Isn't that the core of the issue ? They actually *need* to hire people who do just that - model high quality assets all day and find bugs while doing so. There are many people here on this very forum who would gladly accept such a job.
i was just illustrating that workflow and interface is subjective. while you might enjoy softimage's manipulator i prefer maya's and prefer the extra functionality as separate attributes that i can choose to use or not depending no my workflow choices.
on your last point i have found that just about every app i have tried to model in with the exception of houdini takes one or two days to get the hang of. i think at some point you have enough experience that learning a new interface and workflow becomes fairly easy as long as the tools are generally the same. i had to train a few veteran max users to use maya and they had everything down in under a week.
I'm just confused because as best as I can understand your description of your own workflow, soft-image has this by default. Maybe I mis-read?
My second point isn't about how long it takes long to learn a new software package, my problem is it seems strange that it takes less time to produce more work in a completely new package with relativity little time to get acclimated. To me it shows that there is a glaring weakness in maya's workflow. It simply isn't streamlined.
EDIT:
Here's an example of the kind of things that imho make softimage so much faster to model in (please forgive my terrible image):
Notice the bevel edge width in all 3 examples.
The more complex the shape the worse the bevel tool will get skrewd up, the only way to fix it is by hand in maya, or use another tool. In softimage it's a one click solution if your mesh needs a more precise bevel.
thats a nice tool option you should suggest it to autodesk. i'm not going to get into softimage vs maya or any such thing in this thread. but thanks for posting a concrete example.
my point is that i don't consider having tools tied to the manip a feature. i like maya's manip better. to the extent i use some of the same tools in maya i would rather have them as hotkeys or in a marking menu. ui and workflow are something different from features and functions.
thats just how i like to do things. i like to start with the interface tools that maya has and build a custom interface and workflow. everything in maya can be controlled with mel and python. you have various tools to make custom ui. thats the style i like.
thats a nice tool option you should suggest it to autodesk. i'm not going to get into softimage vs maya or any such thing in this thread. but thanks for posting a concrete example.
my point is that i don't consider having tools tied to the manip a feature. i like a maya's manip better. to the extent i use some of the same tools in maya i would rather have them as hotkeys or in a marking menu. ui and workflow are something different from features and functions.
thats just how i like to do things. i like to start with the interface tools that maya has and build a custom interface and workflow. everything in maya can be controlled with mel and python. you have various tools to make custom ui. thats the style i like.
Heh I didn't mean to start a maya vs softimage arguement either :P What I would like to do is keep discussing how to make maya a better product for us modelers.
Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology. When I say something like "streamlined workflow" I mean tools that work smoothly together.
For instance in the maya 2014 toolkit pressing the W button while the toolkit is active will give you the option to use raycast selection, but if you use something that forces the toolkit to become inactive and press W again you no longer can use raycast selection. I'm bothered by this integration. I feel like these features should be a part of the core selection model and not tied to the toolkit. Heck if you don't want raycast selection I'm sure there would be an option to turn it off.
and also, your last post reminded me of this (I can't take credit for the image, someone posted it over in technical talk.):
But in all seriousness. I don't have the knowledge of how to bind something like align translation axis to a face or edge to the middle mouse button. Where is a good resource to learn the more advanced mel controls? I've done some scripting before but not to this level.
I've always felt like maya has the one too many clicks syndrome. I'd love to be able to eliminate some of the extra clicks when it comes to things like that. Going back to my align axis to edge or face example. Even if I have an edge selected and I use the radial memu (holding down W and left clicking) it doesn't auto align to the already selected edge, I still have to pick the edge, Why? (if we're counting thats 2 clicks + a hotkey) can't it check to see what I have selected and auto align to that component? perhaps I'm just asking for smarter software.
Instead of having to choose to align to face edge or vert, I just want one option that auto aligns to what I already have selected.
compared to some of the block heads on the board i consider you a softy.
i guess some people look at that pic and laugh because they think its a bug. but there is another group of people that laugh because its a feature. i have not really known any animators who would trade in maya for another app once the have worked in it. and most animators are not coders. so i don't know how accurate it is but it definitely reflects some peoples frustration and its funny in that respect.
i think what your getting at if i'm not mistaken is,
1) the tools as they stand should be extended with more options and made more robust.
2) somebody, somewhere should be paying more attention to workflow issues. how all the tools work together as a solid lump, apposed to a bunch of individual nuggets.
if thats what your getting at then i can agree. number one there can be some progress because you just need some clear examples of what you want and show it to the devs, bellsey etc. they can see exactly what it is and go about implementing it. on the second issue i think its probably hopeless. its exteamly hard to get people to agree on what the 'best' workflow is. especially if its a bunch of modelers who know there shit. modelers figure out how to get there setup the way they like it and don't have much time for other people telling them they are doing it the wrong way. i am just as guilty of this as anybody else.
i think the workflow thing is what most people get irate about and thats the thing that you can never really solve or prove one is better then the other. software has a certain core design and that can't really be changed. maya is a node graph not a dag. all interfaces are based on scripting mel/python to facilitate very large custom tool pipelines that you find at larger studios. that sort of stuff can't be changed and is designed the way it is for a reason. you work with it or your going to be swimming against the current.
individual modelling tools can be improved because there self contained nodes. it's possible to make custom scripts and buttons that change the behaviour of how they work and work together. those scripts can then be wrapped into marking menus, hotkeys, and the shelf. i don't have time to dig into 2014 modeling tools atm. when the service packs come out i will start to look at what is there under the hood. see what nodes and functions are in the plugin and start poking at it. lots of times you can write a simple shelf script that uses the tool in a different way then the stock interface which is more how you want it.
so for instance with the nex tools there is probably a function that turns the nex mode on and off. so whats to say you can't make a shelf script that enters nex uses one of the tools and then exits nex again? you could then turn that into a hotkey and have a nex tool work with the other maya tools in a smooth way.
edit:
if you start reading the scrpt editor output with 'echo all commands' turned on your reading the actual command stream in maya. in most cases you can select and drag that text directly to the shelf and make a button. so thats the way to start. then when you find the functions you want read the docs on all the options and just start playing with it in the script editor. usually you can string some stuff together and it works. any sort of structure you might need is very basic and there are a million examples on creative crash and a fairly good introduction to mel in the docs.
if you find the new one rubbish report all your issues... otherwise it wills tay like it is...
I guess I just thought that maya devs must know that the new split poly tool is rubbish because it becomes quite obvious even after using it for just a few hours. Its erratic and inflexible in comparison to the old tool, it just seems glaringly obvious to me so I just assumed its something they are still working on.
its different to use and i assume they think its fine like it is...
have youn used the one in 2014..?
yeah but its hidden in the new modelling toolkit and I would prefer all those new tools to be more integrated into mayas standard tools. I must admit I havent spent enough time with the new tools yet to say whether I love them or not.
compared to some of the block heads on the board i consider you a softy.
i guess some people look at that pic and laugh because they think its a bug. but there is another group of people that laugh because its a feature. i have not really known any animators who would trade in maya for another app once the have worked in it. and most animators are not coders. so i don't know how accurate it is but it definitely reflects some peoples frustration and its funny in that respect.
i think what your getting at if i'm not mistaken is,
1) the tools as they stand should be extended with more options and made more robust.
2) somebody, somewhere should be paying more attention to workflow issues. how all the tools work together as a solid lump, apposed to a bunch of individual nuggets.
if thats what your getting at then i can agree. number one there can be some progress because you just need some clear examples of what you want and show it to the devs, bellsey etc. they can see exactly what it is and go about implementing it. on the second issue i think its probably hopeless. its exteamly hard to get people to agree on what the 'best' workflow is. especially if its a bunch of modelers who know there shit. modelers figure out how to get there setup the way they like it and don't have much time for other people telling them they are doing it the wrong way. i am just as guilty of this as anybody else.
i think the workflow thing is what most people get irate about and thats the thing that you can never really solve or prove one is better then the other. software has a certain core design and that can't really be changed. maya is a node graph not a dag. all interfaces are based on scripting mel/python to facilitate very large custom tool pipelines that you find at larger studios. that sort of stuff can't be changed and is designed the way it is for a reason. you work with it or your going to be swimming against the current.
individual modelling tools can be improved because there self contained nodes. it's possible to make custom scripts and buttons that change the behaviour of how they work and work together. those scripts can then be wrapped into marking menus, hotkeys, and the shelf. i don't have time to dig into 2014 modeling tools atm. when the service packs come out i will start to look at what is there under the hood. see what nodes and functions are in the plugin and start poking at it. lots of times you can write a simple shelf script that uses the tool in a different way then the stock interface which is more how you want it.
so for instance with the nex tools there is probably a function that turns the nex mode on and off. so whats to say you can't make a shelf script that enters nex uses one of the tools and then exits nex again? you could then turn that into a hotkey and have a nex tool work with the other maya tools in a smooth way.
edit:
if you start reading the scrpt editor output with 'echo all commands' turned on your reading the actual command stream in maya. in most cases you can select and drag that text directly to the shelf and make a button. so thats the way to start. then when you find the functions you want read the docs on all the options and just start playing with it in the script editor. usually you can string some stuff together and it works. any sort of structure you might need is very basic and there are a million examples on creative crash and a fairly good introduction to mel in the docs.
Yes, I think we understand each other now,
1) mayas tools for modeling have indeed come a long way but we still have a ways to go. Hopefully Bellsey can shed some light on how autodesk views the current implementation of the new modeling toolset. Will there be a team dedicated to working on it further? I certainly hope so!
2) I understand that people have different workflows so to be honest I would settle for simply two things in regard to workflow.
1) Does this tool break another tool instantly on usage, if so fix it.
2) Keep current tool functionality the same but simply reduce the number of clicks involved to reach the end result by making the tool smarter. This in turn should speed up the workflow for everyone.
does anyone else find that the isolate selected faces function doesnt work properly in 2014? you can still select all the faces that are hidden/invisible which effectively negates the whole point of isolateing anything.
i have not seen anyone advocate spline modeling for over 10 years. the lack of spline modeling is a feature . for anything complicated splines are even more hellish then nurbs. for anything simple there is generally a way to do it with curves, nurbs or polygons just as fast.
I wouldn't be so dismissive of splines. Most people don't use them to model surfaces but splines definitely have their place in modern workflows and I've had trouble translating some of these methods to Maya.
Here are some things I do with splines in max that I have trouble doing in Maya, I'm still a Maya noob even though it is what I cut my 3D teeth a long time ago. So any help or pointers on how to pull these things off in Maya would be helpful.
Basic functionality
Enable in render: This can shave a lot of polys out of a scene while still rendering them, as in baking normal maps. Easy to manipulate, not slowing down the viewport.
Enable in viewport: Flip this on and convert to edit poly, insanely easy to get geometry from a spline.
Generate Mapping Coords: Exactly what it says, nicely squared off UV's without ever having to unwrap the model.
Radial or rectangular with sides, thickness and angle.
Interpolation: Steps is how many extra edges it will apply to smoothed tangents. Adjusting this and the number of sides makes optimizing splines very easy.
Spline + Lathe http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2336353/LabLathe.gif
This is great because its interactive, I can edit the entire object by editing just the spline. It also gives decent UV's without any work like all splines in max do. I can also quickly take this model up to a high poly and down to a low poly just by editing the one spline. I'm not juggling loops, rings and thousands of verts, I'm removing/adding a handful of verts from a spline.
Path Deform
Create an instance of a long straight piece of complexly modeled geometry, like an ammo belt or a bundle of wires and deform it along a spline. You can then go back to the long straight instance and edit it while the twisted version updates at the same time.
Convert edge selection to spline
This is great for generating trim, a drain pipe, wires bla bla bla. Splines in max have a "rectangular option" which is good for basic trim, the UV's generated are very helpful also.
Sweep + Custom Shape
Sweeping a custom shape over a spline is a good way to get more detailed trim, as in molding, picture frames ect... It's I-beam, T-beam, L-beam presets are very handy also. If you use some simple scripts to house a library of sweep shapes, it gets even better. A lot of people have used this method to make planter boxes. From what I understand splines were used a lot in creating some of the curvy sweeping forms in Halo Reach.
Splines and booleans
Sweep a spline over a rectangle path and boolean it into a box to get quick wainscoting. Go back and edit the spline to make drastic changes without much work. Take it to high poly, then take it to low without a lot of poly modeling.
Spline Painting
Being able to paint splines on the surface of other objects is helpful for a lot of things like wires running along a wall or floor, painting paths for objects, even raised details on things you wouldn't expect. I did that lamp post from start to "finish" in 20min and without splines it would have been a lot harder and taken longer.
Closed spline to Geometry, with the ease of spline editing
This is a quick way to knock shapes together. Trace out the shape with a spline and convert it to geometry by applying a shell modifier, extrude or simply converting it to editable poly. Go back down to the spline and adjust it as needed, making the tangents smooth or corner, adding or removing spline verts.
Welds
convert an edge selection to a spline, sweep a noisy shape over it and you've got high poly welds. There are a few scripts assist with this.
So there are a lot of uses for them besides, "spline model a plane or boat". Some of these I have developed methods inside of maya and most of them take a lot longer than they should. Some rely on scripts and that gets dicey when Maya gets updated yearly and the scripts may not. Most of the workarounds are one shot deals, you do a process, sometimes blind, once and hope it works. In max because they've been a core feature for so long they are pretty bullet proof give you a solid preview and often are very flexible and forgiving. I normally get the middle finger from maya when I ask for flexablity and forgivness, espcailly at the same time lol but it has come a long way and I'm hopeful things will continue to get better. I wouldn't trade in HumanIK or any of the skinning improvements for an older version of Maya.
So question to anyone using 2014(or anything newer than 2008 really):
Can Maya bake AO from highpoly to lowpoly in transfer maps yet? I mean regular bake from high to low like max, xnormal, etc, not bake high to high then transfer as a diffuse map to low.
Also related question, is baking via transfer maps multi-threaded yet?
@Mark : Oh hell yeas to all of that. Maya can replicate a fraction of those cool tricks, but often in a clunky way which needs a bunch of cleanup. My personal favourite is when it adds an unwanted twist to geometry created from a curve. I think it happens as soon as you add an "S" bend to the curve. "C" shapes seem to work ok.
So question to anyone using 2014(or anything newer than 2008 really):
Can Maya bake AO from highpoly to lowpoly in transfer maps yet? I mean regular bake from high to low like max, xnormal, etc, not bake high to high then transfer as a diffuse map to low.
Also related question, is baking via transfer maps multi-threaded yet?
does anyone else find that the isolate selected faces function doesnt work properly in 2014? you can still select all the faces that are hidden/invisible which effectively negates the whole point of isolateing anything.
Seems to be working ok for me, you're talking about the button at the top of the view-port frame correct?
There was a way around using direct Symmetry in Maya before this:
-I used to cut the model in half on Y axis, mirror it to -1, and instance it to the other half.
-When completed, I would just delete that mirrored half, mirror the main half again to -1, flip norms and merge.
Yes, Things were much easier in softimage xsi.
Just look at how many steps that is to mirror your model! I wrote a script to do it all automatically, but i'd like an even more robust symmetry that works with all the tools, and provides the option to match normals at the center line so you don't have the hard edge down the middle of your character's face while working.
Seems to be working ok for me, you're talking about the button at the top of the view-port frame correct?
Just look at how many steps that is to mirror your model! I wrote a script to do it all automatically, but i'd like an even more robust symmetry that works with all the tools, and provides the option to match normals at the center line so you don't have the hard edge down the middle of your character's face while working.
http://www.rpmanager.com/plugins/Transmographier.htm
Transmographier does something similar although it doesn't get used for modeling, it gets used for creating mirroring and flipping morph targets(blendshapes).
It maintains the center seam through some kind of mathematical dark art. You can take verts and push them across the seam and it calculates the seam perfectly along with the smoothing, so you don't have to baby sit the verts in the center seam. It never cuts, adds or removes geometry which can be a common problem when working with symmetry (cut and weld).
The options to flip, mirror and asymmetry are awesome too. It's not really a tool for modeling but the first tool that works like this for modeling, would win the symmetry crowd. Especially if it allowed asymmetry like Transmographier does.
I'm just saying if there was some kind of kick ass modeling tool to be cooked up and integrated this might be it...
@Mark : Oh hell yeas to all of that. Maya can replicate a fraction of those cool tricks, but often in a clunky way which needs a bunch of cleanup. My personal favourite is when it adds an unwanted twist to geometry created from a curve. I think it happens as soon as you add an "S" bend to the curve. "C" shapes seem to work ok.
Yeah... that is super annoying, back in 2009 MoP played around with it and got a script working, I'm not sure if they have fixed it in 2014 or if the script still works but it was an interesting thread. I would really like to know if there is a better way to handle it.
Can Maya bake AO from highpoly to lowpoly in transfer maps yet? I mean regular bake from high to low like max, xnormal, etc, not bake high to high then transfer as a diffuse map to low.
No but turtle can, transfer maps is basically legacy now that turtle comes in standard maya
there are two things getting mixed up. 'spline modeling', and general curves.
spline modeling and to a lesser extent nurbs are less flexible then subdivison schemes which is why subdivision has replaces them in most areas. the fact that they use first degree lines with arbitrary topology (polygons) as input makes them even more usefull.
if you want featurs such as automatic uv creation, span control use nurbs. you also get stuff like booleans, curve projection etc.
general curves on the other hand are very useful for lots of stuff as you pointed out. maya has a vast amount of curve editing features and scripts if you do a little research. maya has 4 different types of curves
edit point curves.
control point curves.
classic bezier curves.
hermite curves.
you can read the docs or wikipedia for an explanation of each type of curve.
Spline Painting
have you looked at paint effects? thats why it was created.
you can also use curves with live surfaces for simple curve on surface tasks.
some of the other stuff like hair cards, weld etc can either be done with the default tools or can be scripted like other packages. my favourite curve feature in maya atm is lock length. i have been using it for hair and other stuff. very handy. between nurbs, curves and paint effects you have a huge range of possibilities.
Oh yeah, forgot about Turtle, there's some nice features with it in Maya. Have just started learning Max and transitioning over from Maya, am actually liking the modeling toolset that Max has, its quite robust! Also thanks Mark for the rundown on some of those features, they're pretty impressive.
honestly guys i hope your cracking jokes. because if someone came to my desk in distress that they could not figure out how to make a tube lets just say you would not be getting any technical ability points at your performance review.
honestly guys i hope your cracking jokes. because if someone came to my desk in distress that they could not figure out how to make a tube lets just say you would not be getting any technical ability points at your performance review.
Excuse me...I think you're crapping on a lot of people's professions, just the other day I saw this ad for work:
Tube Modeller Position
We're looking for Tube Modellers to join our team on a temporary basis. Projected project length: 6 months - 1 year.
Description:
If you believe you possess the knowledge and skills to bring tubes to life for a best in class title, our environment art team are looking for you. We are looking for an exceptional Tube Artist to join our studio on our next project. Work alongside our team of passionate Tube artists that share the belief that the best Tube art is yet to come. You'll work on a variety of tubes - small tubes, long tubes, tubes as big as your house.
Responsibilities:
Model and texture realistic, modular, hard-surface and organic tubes
Create realistic next gen textures and materials for use on said tubes
Work from photo reference, style sheets, and concept during the art creation process.
Take direction from the Art Director and work with the Environment Lead and designers in achieving the overall vision for the game art.
Qualifications:
Experience creating photorealistic tubes
A minimum of 4 years full-cycle console game experience in modeling and texturing tubes
Two or more published games in a tube artist role
Ability to show examples of top notch tubes
Work well in a large team environment, be proactive, and have excellent knowledge of tubes
A passion for tubeage
Pluses:
Experience with Radiant, Unreal, or a similar level building package
Home collection of tubes
Lives, breathes and eats tubes
your right, the dedicated tube modelers department is the back bone of most studios. its a time honored profession stretching back centuries. it can take years, decades even to take tubes to the highest levels of the craft. most people need help to bang out bitchin tubes like the pros. making the awesome tubes is something most people will never achieve in one lifetime...
i propose 'how you model dem bitchin tubes' sticky thread to give people the help they need.
I'm not really looking for an array of objects populated down a spline but deforming an object to match the spline.
The closest I can get is "Animate > Motion Paths > Attach to Motion Path" or "Animate > Motion Paths > Flow Path Object".
But they really aren't the same and they have a lot more set up involved. I'm also not sure how to set up the instancing but that's just because I haven't tried, I can probably figure it out the next time I need to do it.
There are some annoying things with "Attach to Motion Path" but I can't remember it off the top of my head. They both get close-ish, but neither of them are good replacements for PathDeform(WSM). Apply modifier, pick path, done.
Sweep + Custom Shape
surface->extrude
using a combo of the surface tools and modify->convert you can get anything you want.
I think this works a lot like max's extrude along spline which is different than sweep.
There are a lot of clicks before you get to the end result.
I think you have to align the two, there isn't an option to "move the profile to the path".
Draw a curve to be used as a cross-section.
Draw a path.
Orient the cross-section centered and perpendicular to the path, use translate and rotate.
Select the cross-section and then the path
Select Surfaces->Extrude->
Choose Style Tube
Choose Result Position At Path
Choose Pivot Closest End Point
Choose Orientation Profile Normal
Choose Curve Range Complete
Choose Output Geometry NURBS
VS
Draw profile
Draw path
apply sweep
Pick profile
From what I remember, Maya also doesn't have the presets that sweep does, which means you have to create those shapes each time or store and import them? It is also missing the pivot align options, so you have to position it manually? There might be a way to easily mirror, flip and adjust the angle, but I haven't figured it out... yet.
I didn't look at them all but most of them seem to be outputting polygons. The beauty of the helix spline is that you can convert it to editable spline and then rough it up, add points and make it unique before you convert it to polygons. Most of them also seem to be a process (set your settings cross your fingers and click go) vs being able to interactively tweak the settings. I guess you might be able to dig into the nodes for some of them but that gets kind of convoluted and messy? Maybe some have an interface set up for that... I'll have to check them out.
I guess my beef isn't so much that it doesn't do a lot of those things it's that it takes longer, gives different results, is buried and convoluted, isn't as forgiving or randomly makes a mess that is hard to clean up.
I'm not saying max does it right and doesn't have any room for improvement because it certainly does, but when it comes with working with splines in maya its just not as easy as it is in max.
honestly guys i hope your cracking jokes. because if someone came to my desk in distress that they could not figure out how to make a tube lets just say you would not be getting any technical ability points at your performance review.
That's great, Maybe they fixed it in newer versions? Did you have to straighten out any crazy random twists? Because this is the kind of stuff I used to get with flow path.
Maybe you used some other trick?
Sure you can fiddle with its naughty bits and get it to work but why should anyone need to do that?
nobody take this post seriously. its not directed at anyone Mark, Cheese etc. but Torch's post had me rolling... and i had to get this out of my head and into photoshop.
Seems to be working ok for me, you're talking about the button at the top of the view-port frame correct?
yeah...so if you create a cube and select one face then press the little green isolate selected button on the top of the viewport it hides all the faces that you havent selected and you can no longer click on those hidden faces? what happens to me is that those hidden faces come up as red polys floating in space when I mouse over them and allow me to click them and move them even though I cant actually see them.
yeah...so if you create a cube and select one face then press the little green isolate selected button on the top of the viewport it hides all the faces that you havent selected and you can no longer click on those hidden faces? what happens to me is that those hidden faces come up as red polys floating in space when I mouse over them and allow me to click them and move them even though I cant actually see them.
maybe its a maya mac osx bug?
yeah. far as i can tell. still ' broken '. it's the sort of shit that just SCREAMS that whoever does the testing isn't doing so from within a ' real / in context ' workflow
pretty miserable that this still isn't working as we'd expect / as it should
while the nex toolset in and of itself is a welcome edition. that they didn't seamlessly integrate it into the app proper is hugely disappointing
yeah...so if you create a cube and select one face then press the little green isolate selected button on the top of the viewport it hides all the faces that you havent selected and you can no longer click on those hidden faces? what happens to me is that those hidden faces come up as red polys floating in space when I mouse over them and allow me to click them and move them even though I cant actually see them.
maybe its a maya mac osx bug?
I haven't tried it on mac, but it seemed to work ok for me today when I tested it on windows.
yeah. far as i can tell. still ' broken '. it's the sort of shit that just SCREAMS that whoever does the testing isn't doing so from within a ' real / in context ' workflow
pretty miserable that this still isn't working as we'd expect / as it should
while the nex toolset in and of itself is a welcome edition. that they didn't seamlessly integrate it into the app proper is hugely disappointing
I also love how the default option for bridge polygon in the modeling toolkit gives you a twisted result on more complex operations but changing the offset value fixes it instantly. Why isn't that the default?
as a sneaky aside. the one tool of the nex set which is the big attraction for me. obvious as it is and available i'm sure in most any other modelling package. . . split poly's by clicking and dragging from outside a mesh. any folks know of any custom tool ( s ) that integrates into maya that solves this functionality ?
yeah. sorry dude i should've been more clear. wanting something more interactive. click and drag a straight line and it'll split all overlapping edges. bonus tools has the draw split. but fucked if i can get it to behave. and again. not as well integrated as one might hope. . .
just tried this out today. only went a little into things but i LOVED the fact that there's now a way to do select similar (wish it had as many options as max) and edge constraint (FINALLY!)
EDIT : heh. the biggest thing is it not actually dropping down the cut when using shift ( straight line ). the docs say you gotta hit enter after drawing the cut ( WTF !?! ). but it aint happening
for draw split and draw reduce you have to hit the 'reset tool' to calibrate.
yep. i been hitting that sucker each time it gets dicky. still doesn't solve the shift > straight line cut operation failing though. . . this is derailing the thread a bit now maybe. but damn. don't usually bag maya's modelling toolset so much. it gets the job done. but missing this kinda core functionality as a given from day one is a shit
Replies
doesnt autodesk have QA ?
Thanks I will try that out.
It's not that maya doesn't have the tools, it's that they aren't set up in a way to create a fast and efficient workflow.
I listed a few of the things in the new toolkit that are great features but just aren't useful because they aren't on all the time. If I happen to need to do something that kicks the "modeling toolkit" out of the active tool slot then I lose all of the new features.
Maya suffers from being unorganized. Things just aren't quite in the right place to make them useful.
For instance, in softimage while the translate tool widget is active 3 small buttons appear over the viewport at the bottom. The first one toggles on and off tweak mode, the second toggles whether or not to slide on the surface and the third toggles on and off merging verts. On top of this if you middle click any edge or face it will automatically align the translate or scale tool to it. I don't have to dig through menus or worry about extra shit. Everything is at my fingertips all while inside the move tool! When you add in hot keys it only sweetens the deal.
Maya's biggest problem is it's UI layout and while marking menus are very nice, they don't solve the problem. Maya's second biggest problem are tools that produce unwanted results.
Beveling in maya can be a pain in the ass because it doesn't keep the bevel width uniform across more complex shapes. Softimage has a checkbox that fixes this instantly. The list goes on and on.
Maybe it's time to look into a dedicated modeling mode for maya. Right now the dropdown in the top left says "polygons" and that is very accurate for what it does. It would be way better to have a super streamlined UI for modeling at the click of a button.
Side rant: Hotkeys! Maya desperately needs to adopt the idea of displaying what every tool's hotkey is currently set to right in the menu. So many other software packages(and video games) do this and it works very well.
sure but they cant find everything... and they dont do what we do... modeling the whole day... they dont see some bugs cause they think it should work like this...
exactly.
so the solution is to actually hire QA that knows how to look for bugs specific to the modeling tools.
you cant sell the software for high price and then expect free QA service from the same customers.
may be make bug reporting and beta testing a paid job instead of free service.
I have very rarely submitted a bug report with my email and steps typed out intelligently that I have not received a direct answer or recognition of a bug from.
Remember there is always the small annoying things forum and the feature request forum if people agree with you then your ideas can be voted on and seriously considered for integration.
On average I see about 50 bug fixes every prerelease so getting frustrated about them doesnt really help the process, submit the report with details and if someone gets back to you provide them with the necessary information.
if its more about the workflow then i can understand the argument a little better. the older 3d apps have gone through multiple paradigm shifts and the focus of the modelling tools has been shifting and added in a piecemeal fashion. but the old blanket argument that maya does not have the tools does not hold much water anymore. there is always extra options and tweaking that can be added to the tools but all the basics are in there whether you like the implementation or not.
the problem with workflow is that its very subjective. two people can have a very different workflows and get the same model done in the same amount of time. both of them think there workflow is better but there is no objective way to say that one is better then the other.
its interesting that you bring up the softimage manipulator. for my workflow that would drive me crazy to have to work like that. i keep the manipulator hidden most of the time and have a toggle hotkey that brings it up if i need it.
i focus on hotkeys, marking menus and the shelf, most of the interface is hidden. those manip options are hotkey toggles. the marking menu has a sensitivity all the way down to the component level. you can add anything contextual you want in there. you can mix and match tools and scripts in the shelf to eliminate most menu diving. the whole design is setup so you can start from scratch and build up your toolbox in a way that is specific to how you work. the default interface and hotkeys are never going match that. i don't really like the default interface in maya or max but in maya you can pretty much design your own.
I'm not sure I understand your gripe with the softimage manipulator, you can be in the tool with the manipulator hidden and still have access to everything I listed. Softimage has the toggle for visibility just like how you said you use it. All by default, no special set up required. (Although I always take the time to setup my hotkeys too.)
My main argument isn't that maya doesn't have the tools, it's that the tools are either buggy, produce unwanted results, don't have the extra checkbox they need to be useful, or are buried in menus somewhere that are annoying to get to.
Having used maya for several years, within a few days of switching to softimage I was able to complete roughly the same amount of modeling work in much less time. That to me is a problem. Because I'd rather use maya from start to finish instead of jumping from softimage to maya at the end of modeling for uvs, rigging, animation and exporting the final game mesh.
i was just illustrating that workflow and interface is subjective. while you might enjoy softimage's manipulator i prefer maya's and prefer the extra functionality as separate attributes that i can choose to use or not depending no my workflow choices.
on your last point i have found that just about every app i have tried to model in with the exception of houdini takes one or two days to get the hang of. i think at some point you have enough experience that learning a new interface and workflow becomes fairly easy as long as the tools are generally the same. i had to train a few veteran max users to use maya and they had everything down in under a week.
Isn't that the core of the issue ? They actually *need* to hire people who do just that - model high quality assets all day and find bugs while doing so. There are many people here on this very forum who would gladly accept such a job.
I'm just confused because as best as I can understand your description of your own workflow, soft-image has this by default. Maybe I mis-read?
My second point isn't about how long it takes long to learn a new software package, my problem is it seems strange that it takes less time to produce more work in a completely new package with relativity little time to get acclimated. To me it shows that there is a glaring weakness in maya's workflow. It simply isn't streamlined.
EDIT:
Here's an example of the kind of things that imho make softimage so much faster to model in (please forgive my terrible image):
Notice the bevel edge width in all 3 examples.
The more complex the shape the worse the bevel tool will get skrewd up, the only way to fix it is by hand in maya, or use another tool. In softimage it's a one click solution if your mesh needs a more precise bevel.
my point is that i don't consider having tools tied to the manip a feature. i like maya's manip better. to the extent i use some of the same tools in maya i would rather have them as hotkeys or in a marking menu. ui and workflow are something different from features and functions.
thats just how i like to do things. i like to start with the interface tools that maya has and build a custom interface and workflow. everything in maya can be controlled with mel and python. you have various tools to make custom ui. thats the style i like.
Heh I didn't mean to start a maya vs softimage arguement either :P What I would like to do is keep discussing how to make maya a better product for us modelers.
Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology. When I say something like "streamlined workflow" I mean tools that work smoothly together.
For instance in the maya 2014 toolkit pressing the W button while the toolkit is active will give you the option to use raycast selection, but if you use something that forces the toolkit to become inactive and press W again you no longer can use raycast selection. I'm bothered by this integration. I feel like these features should be a part of the core selection model and not tied to the toolkit. Heck if you don't want raycast selection I'm sure there would be an option to turn it off.
and also, your last post reminded me of this (I can't take credit for the image, someone posted it over in technical talk.):
But in all seriousness. I don't have the knowledge of how to bind something like align translation axis to a face or edge to the middle mouse button. Where is a good resource to learn the more advanced mel controls? I've done some scripting before but not to this level.
I've always felt like maya has the one too many clicks syndrome. I'd love to be able to eliminate some of the extra clicks when it comes to things like that. Going back to my align axis to edge or face example. Even if I have an edge selected and I use the radial memu (holding down W and left clicking) it doesn't auto align to the already selected edge, I still have to pick the edge, Why? (if we're counting thats 2 clicks + a hotkey) can't it check to see what I have selected and auto align to that component? perhaps I'm just asking for smarter software.
Instead of having to choose to align to face edge or vert, I just want one option that auto aligns to what I already have selected.
i guess some people look at that pic and laugh because they think its a bug. but there is another group of people that laugh because its a feature. i have not really known any animators who would trade in maya for another app once the have worked in it. and most animators are not coders. so i don't know how accurate it is but it definitely reflects some peoples frustration and its funny in that respect.
i think what your getting at if i'm not mistaken is,
1) the tools as they stand should be extended with more options and made more robust.
2) somebody, somewhere should be paying more attention to workflow issues. how all the tools work together as a solid lump, apposed to a bunch of individual nuggets.
if thats what your getting at then i can agree. number one there can be some progress because you just need some clear examples of what you want and show it to the devs, bellsey etc. they can see exactly what it is and go about implementing it. on the second issue i think its probably hopeless. its exteamly hard to get people to agree on what the 'best' workflow is. especially if its a bunch of modelers who know there shit. modelers figure out how to get there setup the way they like it and don't have much time for other people telling them they are doing it the wrong way. i am just as guilty of this as anybody else.
i think the workflow thing is what most people get irate about and thats the thing that you can never really solve or prove one is better then the other. software has a certain core design and that can't really be changed. maya is a node graph not a dag. all interfaces are based on scripting mel/python to facilitate very large custom tool pipelines that you find at larger studios. that sort of stuff can't be changed and is designed the way it is for a reason. you work with it or your going to be swimming against the current.
individual modelling tools can be improved because there self contained nodes. it's possible to make custom scripts and buttons that change the behaviour of how they work and work together. those scripts can then be wrapped into marking menus, hotkeys, and the shelf. i don't have time to dig into 2014 modeling tools atm. when the service packs come out i will start to look at what is there under the hood. see what nodes and functions are in the plugin and start poking at it. lots of times you can write a simple shelf script that uses the tool in a different way then the stock interface which is more how you want it.
so for instance with the nex tools there is probably a function that turns the nex mode on and off. so whats to say you can't make a shelf script that enters nex uses one of the tools and then exits nex again? you could then turn that into a hotkey and have a nex tool work with the other maya tools in a smooth way.
edit:
if you start reading the scrpt editor output with 'echo all commands' turned on your reading the actual command stream in maya. in most cases you can select and drag that text directly to the shelf and make a button. so thats the way to start. then when you find the functions you want read the docs on all the options and just start playing with it in the script editor. usually you can string some stuff together and it works. any sort of structure you might need is very basic and there are a million examples on creative crash and a fairly good introduction to mel in the docs.
I guess I just thought that maya devs must know that the new split poly tool is rubbish because it becomes quite obvious even after using it for just a few hours. Its erratic and inflexible in comparison to the old tool, it just seems glaringly obvious to me so I just assumed its something they are still working on.
have youn used the one in 2014..?
yeah but its hidden in the new modelling toolkit and I would prefer all those new tools to be more integrated into mayas standard tools. I must admit I havent spent enough time with the new tools yet to say whether I love them or not.
Yes, I think we understand each other now,
1) mayas tools for modeling have indeed come a long way but we still have a ways to go. Hopefully Bellsey can shed some light on how autodesk views the current implementation of the new modeling toolset. Will there be a team dedicated to working on it further? I certainly hope so!
2) I understand that people have different workflows so to be honest I would settle for simply two things in regard to workflow.
1) Does this tool break another tool instantly on usage, if so fix it.
2) Keep current tool functionality the same but simply reduce the number of clicks involved to reach the end result by making the tool smarter. This in turn should speed up the workflow for everyone.
Here are some things I do with splines in max that I have trouble doing in Maya, I'm still a Maya noob even though it is what I cut my 3D teeth a long time ago. So any help or pointers on how to pull these things off in Maya would be helpful.
Basic functionality
Enable in render: This can shave a lot of polys out of a scene while still rendering them, as in baking normal maps. Easy to manipulate, not slowing down the viewport.
Enable in viewport: Flip this on and convert to edit poly, insanely easy to get geometry from a spline.
Generate Mapping Coords: Exactly what it says, nicely squared off UV's without ever having to unwrap the model.
Radial or rectangular with sides, thickness and angle.
Interpolation: Steps is how many extra edges it will apply to smoothed tangents. Adjusting this and the number of sides makes optimizing splines very easy.
Spline + Lathe
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2336353/LabLathe.gif
This is great because its interactive, I can edit the entire object by editing just the spline. It also gives decent UV's without any work like all splines in max do. I can also quickly take this model up to a high poly and down to a low poly just by editing the one spline. I'm not juggling loops, rings and thousands of verts, I'm removing/adding a handful of verts from a spline.
Path Deform
Create an instance of a long straight piece of complexly modeled geometry, like an ammo belt or a bundle of wires and deform it along a spline. You can then go back to the long straight instance and edit it while the twisted version updates at the same time.
Convert edge selection to spline
This is great for generating trim, a drain pipe, wires bla bla bla. Splines in max have a "rectangular option" which is good for basic trim, the UV's generated are very helpful also.
Sweep + Custom Shape
Sweeping a custom shape over a spline is a good way to get more detailed trim, as in molding, picture frames ect... It's I-beam, T-beam, L-beam presets are very handy also. If you use some simple scripts to house a library of sweep shapes, it gets even better. A lot of people have used this method to make planter boxes. From what I understand splines were used a lot in creating some of the curvy sweeping forms in Halo Reach.
Splines and booleans
Sweep a spline over a rectangle path and boolean it into a box to get quick wainscoting. Go back and edit the spline to make drastic changes without much work. Take it to high poly, then take it to low without a lot of poly modeling.
Helix spline
Great for hoses, coiled rope and springs.
Spline Painting
Being able to paint splines on the surface of other objects is helpful for a lot of things like wires running along a wall or floor, painting paths for objects, even raised details on things you wouldn't expect. I did that lamp post from start to "finish" in 20min and without splines it would have been a lot harder and taken longer.
Closed spline to Geometry, with the ease of spline editing
This is a quick way to knock shapes together. Trace out the shape with a spline and convert it to geometry by applying a shell modifier, extrude or simply converting it to editable poly. Go back down to the spline and adjust it as needed, making the tangents smooth or corner, adding or removing spline verts.
Welds
convert an edge selection to a spline, sweep a noisy shape over it and you've got high poly welds. There are a few scripts assist with this.
Hair and fur cards
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1202859#post1202859
So there are a lot of uses for them besides, "spline model a plane or boat". Some of these I have developed methods inside of maya and most of them take a lot longer than they should. Some rely on scripts and that gets dicey when Maya gets updated yearly and the scripts may not. Most of the workarounds are one shot deals, you do a process, sometimes blind, once and hope it works. In max because they've been a core feature for so long they are pretty bullet proof give you a solid preview and often are very flexible and forgiving. I normally get the middle finger from maya when I ask for flexablity and forgivness, espcailly at the same time lol but it has come a long way and I'm hopeful things will continue to get better. I wouldn't trade in HumanIK or any of the skinning improvements for an older version of Maya.
Can Maya bake AO from highpoly to lowpoly in transfer maps yet? I mean regular bake from high to low like max, xnormal, etc, not bake high to high then transfer as a diffuse map to low.
Also related question, is baking via transfer maps multi-threaded yet?
in 2014 is turtle integrated...
There was a way around using direct Symmetry in Maya before this:
-I used to cut the model in half on Y axis, mirror it to -1, and instance it to the other half.
-When completed, I would just delete that mirrored half, mirror the main half again to -1, flip norms and merge.
Yes, Things were much easier in softimage xsi.
Seems to be working ok for me, you're talking about the button at the top of the view-port frame correct?
Just look at how many steps that is to mirror your model! I wrote a script to do it all automatically, but i'd like an even more robust symmetry that works with all the tools, and provides the option to match normals at the center line so you don't have the hard edge down the middle of your character's face while working.
Transmographier does something similar although it doesn't get used for modeling, it gets used for creating mirroring and flipping morph targets(blendshapes).
It maintains the center seam through some kind of mathematical dark art. You can take verts and push them across the seam and it calculates the seam perfectly along with the smoothing, so you don't have to baby sit the verts in the center seam. It never cuts, adds or removes geometry which can be a common problem when working with symmetry (cut and weld).
The options to flip, mirror and asymmetry are awesome too. It's not really a tool for modeling but the first tool that works like this for modeling, would win the symmetry crowd. Especially if it allowed asymmetry like Transmographier does.
I'm just saying if there was some kind of kick ass modeling tool to be cooked up and integrated this might be it...
No but turtle can, transfer maps is basically legacy now that turtle comes in standard maya
spline modeling and to a lesser extent nurbs are less flexible then subdivison schemes which is why subdivision has replaces them in most areas. the fact that they use first degree lines with arbitrary topology (polygons) as input makes them even more usefull.
if you want featurs such as automatic uv creation, span control use nurbs. you also get stuff like booleans, curve projection etc.
general curves on the other hand are very useful for lots of stuff as you pointed out. maya has a vast amount of curve editing features and scripts if you do a little research. maya has 4 different types of curves
edit point curves.
control point curves.
classic bezier curves.
hermite curves.
you can read the docs or wikipedia for an explanation of each type of curve.
Spline + Lathe
surface->revolve
Path Deform
modify->snap align objects->position along curve
there are over 50 array based curve align tools on creative crash.
http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/c/search?search=duplicate+curve&x=0&y=0
Convert edge selection to spline
edit curve->duplicate surface curve
Sweep + Custom Shape
surface->extrude
usinga combo of the surface tools and modify->convert you can get anything you want.
Helix spline
bonus tools->create->create spiral curve
there are about 50 spiral scripts on creative crash.
http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/c/search?search=spiral&x=0&y=0
Spline Painting
have you looked at paint effects? thats why it was created.
you can also use curves with live surfaces for simple curve on surface tasks.
some of the other stuff like hair cards, weld etc can either be done with the default tools or can be scripted like other packages. my favourite curve feature in maya atm is lock length. i have been using it for hair and other stuff. very handy. between nurbs, curves and paint effects you have a huge range of possibilities.
Excuse me...I think you're crapping on a lot of people's professions, just the other day I saw this ad for work:
Tube Modeller Position
We're looking for Tube Modellers to join our team on a temporary basis. Projected project length: 6 months - 1 year.
Description:
If you believe you possess the knowledge and skills to bring tubes to life for a best in class title, our environment art team are looking for you. We are looking for an exceptional Tube Artist to join our studio on our next project. Work alongside our team of passionate Tube artists that share the belief that the best Tube art is yet to come. You'll work on a variety of tubes - small tubes, long tubes, tubes as big as your house.
Responsibilities:
Model and texture realistic, modular, hard-surface and organic tubes
Create realistic next gen textures and materials for use on said tubes
Work from photo reference, style sheets, and concept during the art creation process.
Take direction from the Art Director and work with the Environment Lead and designers in achieving the overall vision for the game art.
Qualifications:
Experience creating photorealistic tubes
A minimum of 4 years full-cycle console game experience in modeling and texturing tubes
Two or more published games in a tube artist role
Ability to show examples of top notch tubes
Work well in a large team environment, be proactive, and have excellent knowledge of tubes
A passion for tubeage
Pluses:
Experience with Radiant, Unreal, or a similar level building package
Home collection of tubes
Lives, breathes and eats tubes
your right, the dedicated tube modelers department is the back bone of most studios. its a time honored profession stretching back centuries. it can take years, decades even to take tubes to the highest levels of the craft. most people need help to bang out bitchin tubes like the pros. making the awesome tubes is something most people will never achieve in one lifetime...
i propose 'how you model dem bitchin tubes' sticky thread to give people the help they need.
The closest I can get is "Animate > Motion Paths > Attach to Motion Path" or "Animate > Motion Paths > Flow Path Object".
But they really aren't the same and they have a lot more set up involved. I'm also not sure how to set up the instancing but that's just because I haven't tried, I can probably figure it out the next time I need to do it.
There are some annoying things with "Attach to Motion Path" but I can't remember it off the top of my head. They both get close-ish, but neither of them are good replacements for PathDeform(WSM). Apply modifier, pick path, done.
I think this works a lot like max's extrude along spline which is different than sweep.
There are a lot of clicks before you get to the end result.
I think you have to align the two, there isn't an option to "move the profile to the path". VS From what I remember, Maya also doesn't have the presets that sweep does, which means you have to create those shapes each time or store and import them? It is also missing the pivot align options, so you have to position it manually? There might be a way to easily mirror, flip and adjust the angle, but I haven't figured it out... yet.
I didn't look at them all but most of them seem to be outputting polygons. The beauty of the helix spline is that you can convert it to editable spline and then rough it up, add points and make it unique before you convert it to polygons. Most of them also seem to be a process (set your settings cross your fingers and click go) vs being able to interactively tweak the settings. I guess you might be able to dig into the nodes for some of them but that gets kind of convoluted and messy? Maybe some have an interface set up for that... I'll have to check them out.
I guess my beef isn't so much that it doesn't do a lot of those things it's that it takes longer, gives different results, is buried and convoluted, isn't as forgiving or randomly makes a mess that is hard to clean up.
I'm not saying max does it right and doesn't have any room for improvement because it certainly does, but when it comes with working with splines in maya its just not as easy as it is in max.
Maybe you used some other trick?
Sure you can fiddle with its naughty bits and get it to work but why should anyone need to do that?
Lets model this with just poly modeling. Poly by poly or use curves in maya and take the time to untwist it all.
pipeGen does a pretty decent job without any twists. here is the script:
http://www.creativecrash.com/maya/downloads/scripts-plugins/modeling/poly-tools/c/pipe-generator/download_page
incase v1.1 doesnt work, here is older version 1.0 :
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13288045/pipeGen_v1.zip
yeah...so if you create a cube and select one face then press the little green isolate selected button on the top of the viewport it hides all the faces that you havent selected and you can no longer click on those hidden faces? what happens to me is that those hidden faces come up as red polys floating in space when I mouse over them and allow me to click them and move them even though I cant actually see them.
maybe its a maya mac osx bug?
yeah. far as i can tell. still ' broken '. it's the sort of shit that just SCREAMS that whoever does the testing isn't doing so from within a ' real / in context ' workflow
pretty miserable that this still isn't working as we'd expect / as it should
while the nex toolset in and of itself is a welcome edition. that they didn't seamlessly integrate it into the app proper is hugely disappointing
I haven't tried it on mac, but it seemed to work ok for me today when I tested it on windows.
I also love how the default option for bridge polygon in the modeling toolkit gives you a twisted result on more complex operations but changing the offset value fixes it instantly. Why isn't that the default?
as a sneaky aside. the one tool of the nex set which is the big attraction for me. obvious as it is and available i'm sure in most any other modelling package. . . split poly's by clicking and dragging from outside a mesh. any folks know of any custom tool ( s ) that integrates into maya that solves this functionality ?
+shift for special angles
yeah. sorry dude i should've been more clear. wanting something more interactive. click and drag a straight line and it'll split all overlapping edges. bonus tools has the draw split. but fucked if i can get it to behave. and again. not as well integrated as one might hope. . .
how so..
many of the concerns expressed here for example : http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/stevenr/maya-bonustools-2013---drawsplitdrawreduce
but i'm running it in 2012 for the moment
EDIT : heh. the biggest thing is it not actually dropping down the cut when using shift ( straight line ). the docs say you gotta hit enter after drawing the cut ( WTF !?! ). but it aint happening
yep. i been hitting that sucker each time it gets dicky. still doesn't solve the shift > straight line cut operation failing though. . . this is derailing the thread a bit now maybe. but damn. don't usually bag maya's modelling toolset so much. it gets the job done. but missing this kinda core functionality as a given from day one is a shit