Hey Alec
The 3dsmax output (assuming you mean if I baked in max) looks fine, pretty regular normal map. I'm exporting from max, using FBX for the object and TGA for the textures. I just sent you an email with the relevant files, thanks for looking into it.
if you buy a pro licence , do you have access to the source code if you wanted to add a new exporter target type? In this case maybe a propitiatory engine of a sort?
I am trying to get good normal map output results from using Softimage to UDK. (FYI. I only need static meshes for environments)
Will handplane be able to help? If Softimage isn't compatible with Handplane can I pass through xnormal, Max or Maya first?
All I want is to be able to do my modeling and UV'ing in Softimage. If I have to bake in another program then so be it. But in the future do you plan on adding Softimage to Handplane?
There is a new handplane build (version 1.3).
Release notes:
Beta support for bethesda creation engine
Fixed an unreal smoothing groups handling bug
Added the option to select between world and object space input
Hi Alec, this tool is great, the Unity setting seems to work well for Marmoset. However, I am having trouble with the Max one, every time I try to create a Max one it seems to forget all my smoothing groups and bakes it all facetted like so
I'm in 3ds Max 2014, baking the object space in xnormals, and have tried exporting an fbx and obj making sure the correct settings are ticked, I'm stumped, thanks in advance!
Hi Tom,
I ran into this bug shortly after we released 1.3. Somehow the max output was broken in this release. You can use handplane 1.2 for now until we get version 1.3.1 online.
Don't apologise!! Thanks for the quick reply! I've just installed 1.2 and it's not facetting it anymore, but I'm not getting fantastic results, I'm using Xoliul shader to render.
*Edit* I should add that it looks great in marmoset and when viewed in xoliul with object space maps it looks perfect
What version of max are you on? Also, our max output is synced to how max scanline renders normal maps. Not necceesarily synced to how your version of max displays normal maps in the viewport. In most versions of max display does not match rendering.
An easy way to get it looking correct is to use the 3point shader. However, my understanding is that newer versions of max have completely broken displaying normal maps in the viewport.
I`m having some problems with normal map on a simple object.
When using xnormal to bake an object space normal map into an tangent space the bake is nice and clean, but if try to use that object space with hand plane i get a nasty result. First picture is xnormal and second is hand plane. I use handplane 1.3 and 3ds max 2011. Help please!!!
Edit: i forgot to mention a used FBX, obj, in hand plane with different setting but all are give me the same result.
s1dk, which handplane output are you using? The max output is broken in 1.3 as mentioned above. Grab 1.2 from here: http://www.handplane3d.com/handplane_v1.2.rar . The patch for 1.3 will be available in a day or two.
handplane 1.3.1 is released fixing the max faceting issue which also affected other outputs. Please download it from the website or directly from this link:
We are happy to implement more engines if we can get the documentation required to do so. Generally we need code snippets covering:
Information on how mesh tangents are created
How triangulation is handled
How normals are computed or if they are imported
How tangents are interpolated across a triangle
Information about any other code that may alter the shading behavior
I don't think there is whole a lot of actual documentation for idTech 4 as you can imagine idSoftware was never good at having user friendly / designer friendly tech
However, unlike any other engine, idTech 4 comes with full source code:
Does anyone who works for ID or has made a recent ID Tech game know if anything affecting normal mapping has changed since doom3? In the past, we have implemented engines based off of third party supplied documentation only to find out it was outdated.
Whatever I supplied right now is first-party docs and source code, straight from iD.
Doom 3 and Doom 3 BFG use exactly identical normal maps - all assets in Doom 3 BFG that use normal maps are from original Doom 3.
I am not sure how Rage is different (most likely using same kind of normal maps) when it comes to model mesh normals and all that good stuff. I will find out.
Hey Alec I'm working in Unity currently and wanted to try a workflow using Handplane. Specifically, Maya to Xnormal to Unity. I followed the the Maya\Xnormal video exactly and output a Maya 2013\2014 tangent map and a Unity tangent map. What displays as seamless in the Maya viewport is a different story once in Unity. I'm trying to figure out if this is user error in my workflow, if my workflow isn't correct, if Unity is the issue or if something is broken in Handplane for the Unity output.
Test object shown in Maya with properly set up Blinn:
Same object in Maya to show edge smoothness and UV shell boundaries.
And finally in Unity. You can see the hard seaming on the corner with a simple bumped\specular Unity material.
Thanks in advance for any insights that anybody might have.
Did you do the smoothing angle fix? (In Unity's inspector for your mesh, set Normals and Tangents to Calculate, set Anything Angle to 180, then set Normals to Import and Tangents to Calculate).
Also, ensure you triangulate your mesh on export to fbx before bringing it into handplane and Unity.
Do you think you'll get this working with the Hero engine? I'm working on a game with some guys that might be really interested in the idea of using this if you can get it working with it.
Hey guys thanks for the responses. That import settings "bug" fix is something that I had already tried unfortunately. It doesn't solve those seams.
I didn't triangulate the .h3d file or the .fbx that is going into Unity. Isn't the point of the .h3d file to deal with untriangulated geometry from Maya? I could try triangulating the low-poly before exporting the .h3d and .fbx and run the whole workflow again and see if that makes a difference.
unfortunately fbx out of maya does not preserve triangle direction. Exporting from maya for unity you will want to force triangulate your models.
Edit:
Also, our unity output relies on exporting normals from your 3d package. Make sure you are exporting normals with your fbx file for tangent space conversion and for unity.
I don't know anything about hero engine or if anyone is using it commercially.
Alec, thank you so much for that clarification. I was pretty sure it was something like that in my workflow that was throwing my results. I'll give it a shot and double-check my FBX export settings and post back with results.
Should I force triangulate before the .h3d export as well? Or do I only need to do that when I'm ready to export an FBX for Unity?
Yeah, because maya treats normal for quads differently, and because unity expect imported normals, you will want to force triangulate before making the tangent space map.
Alec, thank you so much for that clarification. I was pretty sure it was something like that in my workflow that was throwing my results. I'll give it a shot and double-check my FBX export settings and post back with results.
Should I force triangulate before the .h3d export as well? Or do I only need to do that when I'm ready to export an FBX for Unity?
Thanks again!
--JP
I'd just ensure that you triangulate the mesh either before or during export to FBX format (most FBX exporters have an option to triangulate the mesh on export, if yours doesn't, you can triangulate, export then undo).
Then ensure that you use that exact same FBX file for Handplane and for Unity. Ultimately that's the important part - the mesh used to calculate the tangent space maps must be the same mesh as you put into the game - with identical topology, UVs and normals.
The Old Republic MMO used the Hero engine. The only bummer about the engine is that you have to pay for it. The best thing though is that everything you do in the level editor is live. So no more having to upload files for someone else to have to then upload to their UDK.
Hey Alec I'm working in Unity currently and wanted to try a workflow using Handplane. Specifically, Maya to Xnormal to Unity. I followed the the Maya\Xnormal video exactly and output a Maya 2013\2014 tangent map and a Unity tangent map. What displays as seamless in the Maya viewport is a different story once in Unity. I'm trying to figure out if this is user error in my workflow, if my workflow isn't correct, if Unity is the issue or if something is broken in Handplane for the Unity output.
Test object shown in Maya with properly set up Blinn:
Same object in Maya to show edge smoothness and UV shell boundaries.
And finally in Unity. You can see the hard seaming on the corner with a simple bumped\specular Unity material.
Thanks in advance for any insights that anybody might have.
--JP
Just to follow up here for other unity users. This is an issue with forward rendering mode and is not related to handplane. These seams show up even when you apply a solid 128,128,255 normal map. The only suggestions I can offer are to move your UV border edges to less visible areas, or to run in deferred rendering mode (shading quality is also perfect in deferred).
I was wondering if it was possible to use Handplane is a sort of batch mode ?
I didn't found any sort of documentation on the official website about this. I would be very interested, especially to link Handlplane to one of my maya script (froXnormal).
That isn't possible at the moment. We are working on an SDK and we may allow for this but I am concerned it will cause too many support issues. People have a hard enough time sending clean object space bakes and meshes into handplane one at a time- I think if it was done in big groups a lot of overlooked issues would pop up at once.
That isn't possible at the moment. We are working on an SDK and we may allow for this but I am concerned it will cause too many support issues. People have a hard enough time sending clean object space bakes and meshes into handplane one at a time- I think if it was done in big groups a lot of overlooked issues would pop up at once.
I see, I'm looking forward to the SDK then. I understand your concern but I really think that some batch commands would be very beneficial in the end.
I'm having this error while trying to Bake the Normal Map from HP.
"The Object space map appears to have normals that don't match the yz flip and xy directions of the input mesh. Would you like to apply the detected settings instead?"
And when I Click 'Yes', the given map has no information written on it at all. All channels are empty.
Sogun,
That multi colored map is still tangent space- It just has rotated shading on those shells. Are the shells that look wrong overlapped or mirrored geometry?
The first thing you should do is debug your object space bake. In 90% of these cases the problems are in the object space map and aren't handplane problems. The best test is to run a shader with your object space map and set up one or two colored lights. Then make sure that the light is reacting from the correct direction.
AlecMoody Nope. I figured out that when I create the World space normal map in Max2013 and do a conversion in Handmap, Handmap creates the correctly colored BLUE normal map. However there are still some seams visible in Unity.
I created a tangent space normal map in Max 2013 with green Up (Green channel flip) it looks an alternate version of the Handmap produce.
Both cases show some seams just the "shading" is changed a bit. Well, will try xNormal Unity tangent space calculator as last resort and post the images here.
Replies
The 3dsmax output (assuming you mean if I baked in max) looks fine, pretty regular normal map. I'm exporting from max, using FBX for the object and TGA for the textures. I just sent you an email with the relevant files, thanks for looking into it.
Ok, I seem to have the same issue with the Y/Z values - will wait for the checkbox-release! :poly121:
any idea when this will be available?
thanks!
if you buy a pro licence , do you have access to the source code if you wanted to add a new exporter target type? In this case maybe a propitiatory engine of a sort?
I am trying to get good normal map output results from using Softimage to UDK. (FYI. I only need static meshes for environments)
Will handplane be able to help? If Softimage isn't compatible with Handplane can I pass through xnormal, Max or Maya first?
All I want is to be able to do my modeling and UV'ing in Softimage. If I have to bake in another program then so be it. But in the future do you plan on adding Softimage to Handplane?
Thank you so much.
Thank you ZacD.
Release notes:
Beta support for bethesda creation engine
Fixed an unreal smoothing groups handling bug
Added the option to select between world and object space input
I also made a release notes video. If you have had issues with odd colored normals this video (and build) may help:
[ame="
I love you guys
thanks for the update!
I'm in 3ds Max 2014, baking the object space in xnormals, and have tried exporting an fbx and obj making sure the correct settings are ticked, I'm stumped, thanks in advance!
I ran into this bug shortly after we released 1.3. Somehow the max output was broken in this release. You can use handplane 1.2 for now until we get version 1.3.1 online.
Direct link to 1.2:
http://www.handplane3d.com/handplane_v1.2.rar
Sorry about that!
*Edit* I should add that it looks great in marmoset and when viewed in xoliul with object space maps it looks perfect
An easy way to get it looking correct is to use the 3point shader. However, my understanding is that newer versions of max have completely broken displaying normal maps in the viewport.
www.3pointstudios.com/3pointshader_lite.shtml
I`m having some problems with normal map on a simple object.
When using xnormal to bake an object space normal map into an tangent space the bake is nice and clean, but if try to use that object space with hand plane i get a nasty result. First picture is xnormal and second is hand plane. I use handplane 1.3 and 3ds max 2011. Help please!!!
Edit: i forgot to mention a used FBX, obj, in hand plane with different setting but all are give me the same result.
What if I work with CryEngine? Why there is no preset? Thanks!
http://www.handplane3d.com/handplane_v1_3_1.rar
3dwit:
Sorry, no crytek support. We haven't been able to get the supporting materials we need to develop that output.
Information on how mesh tangents are created
How triangulation is handled
How normals are computed or if they are imported
How tangents are interpolated across a triangle
Information about any other code that may alter the shading behavior
However, unlike any other engine, idTech 4 comes with full source code:
Doom 3 : https://github.com/TTimo/doom3.gpl
Doom 3 BFG : https://github.com/RobertBeckebans/RBDOOM-3-BFG
Some info on normal maps (please disregard Renderbump tool, no one uses it nowadays):
http://www.iddevnet.com/doom3/bumpmaps.php
Doom 3 and Doom 3 BFG use exactly identical normal maps - all assets in Doom 3 BFG that use normal maps are from original Doom 3.
I am not sure how Rage is different (most likely using same kind of normal maps) when it comes to model mesh normals and all that good stuff. I will find out.
Test object shown in Maya with properly set up Blinn:
Same object in Maya to show edge smoothness and UV shell boundaries.
And finally in Unity. You can see the hard seaming on the corner with a simple bumped\specular Unity material.
Thanks in advance for any insights that anybody might have.
--JP
Also, ensure you triangulate your mesh on export to fbx before bringing it into handplane and Unity.
[ame="
If you still have a seem there email me your files alecmoody@gmail.com
I use the unity output daily and don't run into any issues so there should be an easy fix.
I didn't triangulate the .h3d file or the .fbx that is going into Unity. Isn't the point of the .h3d file to deal with untriangulated geometry from Maya? I could try triangulating the low-poly before exporting the .h3d and .fbx and run the whole workflow again and see if that makes a difference.
--JP
Edit:
Also, our unity output relies on exporting normals from your 3d package. Make sure you are exporting normals with your fbx file for tangent space conversion and for unity.
I don't know anything about hero engine or if anyone is using it commercially.
Should I force triangulate before the .h3d export as well? Or do I only need to do that when I'm ready to export an FBX for Unity?
Thanks again!
--JP
Then ensure that you use that exact same FBX file for Handplane and for Unity. Ultimately that's the important part - the mesh used to calculate the tangent space maps must be the same mesh as you put into the game - with identical topology, UVs and normals.
Just to follow up here for other unity users. This is an issue with forward rendering mode and is not related to handplane. These seams show up even when you apply a solid 128,128,255 normal map. The only suggestions I can offer are to move your UV border edges to less visible areas, or to run in deferred rendering mode (shading quality is also perfect in deferred).
I didn't found any sort of documentation on the official website about this. I would be very interested, especially to link Handlplane to one of my maya script (froXnormal).
I see, I'm looking forward to the SDK then. I understand your concern but I really think that some batch commands would be very beneficial in the end.
Just can't make it work.
I'm having this error while trying to Bake the Normal Map from HP.
"The Object space map appears to have normals that don't match the yz flip and xy directions of the input mesh. Would you like to apply the detected settings instead?"
And when I Click 'Yes', the given map has no information written on it at all. All channels are empty.
Anyone know why this is happening?
I use 3dsMax and xNormal
Thanks!
Did you ever find out why that was happening? I never got an email from you.
The created file is correctly blue mostly in parts at the "beaches" of the UV island, but "inland" it mostly remains object space. :-/ ???
That multi colored map is still tangent space- It just has rotated shading on those shells. Are the shells that look wrong overlapped or mirrored geometry?
The first thing you should do is debug your object space bake. In 90% of these cases the problems are in the object space map and aren't handplane problems. The best test is to run a shader with your object space map and set up one or two colored lights. Then make sure that the light is reacting from the correct direction.
I created a tangent space normal map in Max 2013 with green Up (Green channel flip) it looks an alternate version of the Handmap produce.
Both cases show some seams just the "shading" is changed a bit. Well, will try xNormal Unity tangent space calculator as last resort and post the images here.