Wunderboy's .SMD importer messes up the bone orientation for the newer .SMD versions used by Source. Use CannonFodder's .SMD importer instead, which will give you correct bone orientation (but you will have to rotate all imported objects by 90 degress in X, as it doesn't automatically set the proper axes for you like Wunderboy's).
If you want the least hassle possible, use the .SMD geometry as reference to build your items around. Otherwise if you're using the .FBXs as reference: using the origin (0,0,0) as pivot and scale everything up (bones+geometry) to 254 units.
Thanks aivanov, I'll switch importers and rotate since everything will be on the proper scale.
One other question, wouldn't rotating or scaling the objects then exporting them mess things up in game... especially the animations? I've worked with UDK a bit and seen it happen there.
One other question, wouldn't rotating or scaling the objects then exporting them mess things up in game... especially the animations? I've worked with UDK a bit and seen it happen there.
I have yet to run into anything similar in my experience with Source - while scale is independent (hence the FBX issues) - any rotations will not mess anything up as long as the geometry is correctly oriented *in relation* to the bone (so, for example, if the item and the bone it's bound to are somehow exported 9999 units in some direction, and then the combination of the two are rotated randomly - it will still compile and show up fine on the whole skeleton.)
When in doubt, don't forget to reset Xforms before rigging.
#2:
Yes, but the polys for that extra geometry have to come out of the poly budget it's attached to. If you wanted to add a belt to your wings item then you would have the same number of polys available to you as if you did wings only (same goes for UV space).
The Ward model doesn't actually include the "Purple Skull" from which the projectile fires. Am I correct in assuming that this is not part of the model but part of the actual spell effect and that all Ward replacements should take consideration to include this Skull? Is there also some explanation as to the two Hitbox elements in the Ward file?
The bag of skulls he carries at LOD_1 is about 975 tri's. Is this because it is a combination of the shoulder and back elements in terms of polycount? That is still above the budget given in the Workshop specs (750 tri's) but its about the only way I can see that creating something in a similar style (Slung over shoulder) can be done.
@hopgood:
1) Most likely if the skull is a particle effect. As for the hitboxes, what do you mean exactly? You can test the approximate hitboxes for heroes ingame just by mousing over them when you have another unit selected. As for the ward, I don't think it has a hitbox to be honest, not 100% sure on that one though.
2) Rules put forth by Valve don't apply to Valve :S
@hopgood:
1) Most likely if the skull is a particle effect. As for the hitboxes, what do you mean exactly? You can test the approximate hitboxes for heroes ingame just by mousing over them when you have another unit selected. As for the ward, I don't think it has a hitbox to be honest, not 100% sure on that one though.
2) Rules put forth by Valve don't apply to Valve :S
1) There are two "hit boxes" within the Witchdoctor Ward file. I just assumed they were there for reference size considering the Ward is invulnerable in game. I just wasn't sure if they needed to be exported with a custom Ward. I guess experimentation is key.
Ok, I'm trying to import my model, but it doesnt want to work sometimes when I include the LOD0 model. I get the "CTargetMDL::Compile Failed" error and "WARNING: CTargetZIP::Compile - Target 2 Compile Failed" error. The weird thing is that it uploads just fine when I put a random name, so if I name it "derp" it imports just fine, but when I use the item's proper name it fails. They also uploaded without error when I just wanted to take screenshots. What exactly causes this error?
I was getting errors when I left the name the same as another uploaded test, so if I called it "test" tried the shoulder canceled and tried test with the arms it'd fail sometimes. I just called it "test1" and it worked... not sure if that'll help.
Thanks Agentfx, that somewhat helped but I still had problems even if I used a name that I never used before. Luckily, I found out the other error that causes it. Both errors only occur when you include the portrait model, the first one is as you explained, using a previous name causes it, the second one is a bit silly, which is having spaces in the name. I used underscores on the name and it finally worked. I also noticed that it saves the models and textures in 4 different folders, so deleting those might let you use a previous name.
Where can I post about this bug so Valve sees it? The Steam forums?
Is it required that we do normal maps? I am kind of a noob and struggling to get my model to have a decent high-poly version that gives a good normal map result. I always get weird artifacts and seems like it isn't even worth it given how small the models will be in-game. I read that we could just keep a plain blue background for submitting normal maps right?
Is it required that we do normal maps? I am kind of a noob and struggling to get my model to have a decent high-poly version that gives a good normal map result. I always get weird artifacts and seems like it isn't even worth it given how small the models will be in-game. I read that we could just keep a plain blue background for submitting normal maps right?
Sure can
"The "_normal" texture should be 24-bit and use the 3dsmax format(red channel is left; green is up; blue is top). If you aren't creating a custom normal map, use a flat normal color (128,128,255)."
Guys!!!! HELP please! after the most recent update my items are no longer acceptable for the game, i cant import them.. I always fail. For invoker even the .fbx downloaded from the site cannot be imported... Anybody knows whats whats the deal? I was about to upload my finished work.. the same file that it was acceptable know shows error to import..
THAT IS ERROR ON THEIR MODEL FROM THE SITE USING FBX
My file that was ok before 2 days now i cant import the same file getiing similar error with their file
and when i import the game is not responding for some seconds unlike before the patch.
They must have change the polygon requirements from quads to triangles. The importer used to count quads but now it seems it counts triangles. You have to decrease the triangle count on your model.
this is almost imposible now that i have made it already i cant decrease the count that much. Even their model cannot apply in the game now. That dosent seem to be right because if i have uploaded the model before 2 days it would be ok now, but now i have to decrease the level of detail again??
at least they have to increase the triange limit a bit
1 quad = 2 triangles we wont be able to make detailed models at all if they dont change that
and anyway.... how do they change that in the middle of a contest? people already making their models with the previous limitations... all those hours are now just wasted? i dont even know if can remake the model to fit the half geometry.. and what if i had it uploaded before 2 days that i could? It would be acceptable then?
@Various22, You have plenty of time to remake the assets. Polygon was always meant to mean triangles, they didn't change the rules, they just fixed the importer. It's valves contest, they can do whatever they want with the rules.
True anyway i was upset because after so much effort i get errors again. I will accept this as a challenge again.. It better to triangulate everything since the game is actually reading triangles.. So its back to work i guess!!! :P
By any means do you think that at least they will increase the limits to fit their own models? Because ever their models have more tris than the limit.. Do we have to wait and see or just lower the poly count anyways to the current limit??
By any means do you think that at least they will increase the limits to fit their own models? Because ever their models have more tris than the limit.. Do we have to wait and see or just lower the poly count anyways to the current limit??
I really really doubt they're change their polygon restrictions. A lot of their models go over the limit, and so they number they set for us is probably based off of the performance measures they've had with their own current geometry.
The contest only started a little more than a week ago. If you finished your project in that amount of time, you can do it again with 4+ weeks left on the clock. It sucks having to rework it, but there are dozens of threads with valuable information here on PC.
How does one actually manage to retain as much detail as possible when going from LOD0 to LOD1? I tried cutting back from 750 tris to 450 for a weapon model but I simply lose too much detail and seems to affect the quality of my UV maps too. Do we need to do LOD0 models for every model, or just the ones that are only visible in the portrait (head, shoulders)? How do they manage this internally because the model I downloaded (Pugna) seems to be all LOD0.
How does one actually manage to retain as much detail as possible when going from LOD0 to LOD1? I tried cutting back from 750 tris to 450 for a weapon model but I simply lose too much detail and seems to affect the quality of my UV maps too. Do we need to do LOD0 models for every model, or just the ones that are only visible in the portrait (head, shoulders)? How do they manage this internally because the model I downloaded (Pugna) seems to be all LOD0.
This question is probably obvious to most here, but I am just starting out so bare with me.
I have a lowpoly mesh of my item, and have mapped the UVs. How do I create a highpoly version? I need the highpoly version to make the normal map, but if I change my mesh, wont the UVs be altered also?
I've heard that people use zbrush, is this a standard method?
It's better to start with a high poly first. And to make one fro ma low poly you just make a higher poly version, there's no automagical way to do it, well.
Yes, a second LOD is optional; but it means they give preference to entries which include both. What they're saying is: "You SHOULD have two LODs. We can't force you to, but we do desire it."
In short, if you want to win, both LODs are required.
I'd like to hear a solid answer on the 2 LOD thingt The way I understand it the LOD_0 is used for the portrait view only. So I'd assume only objects that are visible in portrait view need one. Unless valve wants both of them anyway, they should let us know.
How is everyone dealing with LODs? Right now I'm focusing on LOD1, since it's the in-game LOD. I am still trying to figure out how to transfer the maps / UVs to a higher resolution LOD0 since it seems like LOD0 and LOD1 must use the same maps. Any suggestions would be welcome!
I think you want to make the LOD0 first with UV map. Then you make a copy of it and make the LOD1.
ZacD, you would want the LOD0 because that's the model they use all the places excpect for ingame. So when people are checking out their new items in the preview window, they see the LOD0 if you made one and not a super low poly mesh that is ment to be viewed 20 meters above.
Im not a fan of the lod0 for portrait. With the recommended limited use of hard edges and being unable to re bake an accurate normal map, chances are this is going to create shading inaccuracy's in the normal due to the change the extra(or removed) geo creates.
I have one question don't mentioned here before.
On workshop rules site its stated that:
"The "_normal" texture should be 24-bit and use the 3dsmax format(red channel is left; green is up; blue is top)."
Although after downloading Faceless Void files I saw that normals there were:
Red - Right, Green - Up. Maybe I am blind, but still I am confused right now. Other thing that normals can be swapped later if necessary...
ps. Don't know if its only me, but after importing FBX files of Faceles Void object and bones were having weird scale and offset in their pivots what lead to bad placement of exported meshes... I made about 28 different exports and after that just for fun I imported SMD file and first export from it was placed correctly.... Maybe that will help someone else struggling with export problems.
Anyone here using Blender? I have tried creating both LODs when I created an item but am having a hard time with it since the UV and maps gets problems after I generate it.
I wonder if anyone could help me with an issue I encountered with normal mapping and overlapping UVs.
First I made the mistake of importing the objects into Zbrush and trying to create the normal map with the UVs overlapping, which created a normal map that could not be used.
In order to fix this issue I took the overlapping UVs and placed them outside the 0-1 space, but the Normal map was deformed still (motion blurred).
I finally decided to delete the half of the geometry that would be duplicated, create the normal map in Zbrush and then duplicate what needed to be mirrored in Maya.
I thought that would work well, but could not verify as maya kept crashing when I tried to render with a normal map.
After reinstalling maya, I was finally able to test the map, and the mirrored geometry appeared with the normal mapping inverted (what should have appeared as bumped, appeared to go inwards).
I have tested this with 3 different renders, using:
Mental Ray: normal mapping inverted
Maya Sofware: normal mapping inverted
Maya Hardware: It worked!
After doing some research it seems that in 3Ds Max this inversion does not happen, and that most recent game engines do support mirrored normal maps.
I could not find if that was the case for DOTA2, but I assume it is since we are encouraged to overlap UVs.
Does anyone know for sure if DOTA2 supports mirrored normal mapping, as that would mean I would not have to rework my UVs, redo the normal maps and textures, and lose texture space.
Replies
One other question, wouldn't rotating or scaling the objects then exporting them mess things up in game... especially the animations? I've worked with UDK a bit and seen it happen there.
I have yet to run into anything similar in my experience with Source - while scale is independent (hence the FBX issues) - any rotations will not mess anything up as long as the geometry is correctly oriented *in relation* to the bone (so, for example, if the item and the bone it's bound to are somehow exported 9999 units in some direction, and then the combination of the two are rotated randomly - it will still compile and show up fine on the whole skeleton.)
When in doubt, don't forget to reset Xforms before rigging.
first question:
I can make two heroes (different sets)?
second question:
For example in a workshop it is possible to choose the following slots for the hero -
weapon
head
back (wings)
shoulder
I can for the slot of shoulder make shoulder and bracers or for the slot of back (wings) make wings and add belt to body?
#2:
Yes, but the polys for that extra geometry have to come out of the poly budget it's attached to. If you wanted to add a belt to your wings item then you would have the same number of polys available to you as if you did wings only (same goes for UV space).
The Ward model doesn't actually include the "Purple Skull" from which the projectile fires. Am I correct in assuming that this is not part of the model but part of the actual spell effect and that all Ward replacements should take consideration to include this Skull? Is there also some explanation as to the two Hitbox elements in the Ward file?
The bag of skulls he carries at LOD_1 is about 975 tri's. Is this because it is a combination of the shoulder and back elements in terms of polycount? That is still above the budget given in the Workshop specs (750 tri's) but its about the only way I can see that creating something in a similar style (Slung over shoulder) can be done.
1) Most likely if the skull is a particle effect. As for the hitboxes, what do you mean exactly? You can test the approximate hitboxes for heroes ingame just by mousing over them when you have another unit selected. As for the ward, I don't think it has a hitbox to be honest, not 100% sure on that one though.
2) Rules put forth by Valve don't apply to Valve :S
1) There are two "hit boxes" within the Witchdoctor Ward file. I just assumed they were there for reference size considering the Ward is invulnerable in game. I just wasn't sure if they needed to be exported with a custom Ward. I guess experimentation is key.
2) Ouch....
Where can I post about this bug so Valve sees it? The Steam forums?
Sure can
"The "_normal" texture should be 24-bit and use the 3dsmax format(red channel is left; green is up; blue is top). If you aren't creating a custom normal map, use a flat normal color (128,128,255)."
dev.dota2.com
And yeah, deleting the folders that it automatically creates in your Dota directory when you compile should fix that error.
Are we allowed to use "Greentooth" somewhere on the model
THAT IS ERROR ON THEIR MODEL FROM THE SITE USING FBX
My file that was ok before 2 days
and when i import the game is not responding for some seconds unlike before the patch.
1 quad = 2 triangles
and anyway.... how do they change that in the middle of a contest? people already making their models with the previous limitations... all those hours are now just wasted? i dont even know if can remake the model to fit the half geometry.. and what if i had it uploaded before 2 days that i could? It would be acceptable then?
Not only was it pretty obvious that it was gonna be tris but we also had a a definite answer about 6 days ago
And for your second question:
Rules put forth by Valve don't apply to Valve
I really really doubt they're change their polygon restrictions. A lot of their models go over the limit, and so they number they set for us is probably based off of the performance measures they've had with their own current geometry.
The contest only started a little more than a week ago. If you finished your project in that amount of time, you can do it again with 4+ weeks left on the clock. It sucks having to rework it, but there are dozens of threads with valuable information here on PC.
All models are at least lod1, lod0 is optional.
I have a lowpoly mesh of my item, and have mapped the UVs. How do I create a highpoly version? I need the highpoly version to make the normal map, but if I change my mesh, wont the UVs be altered also?
I've heard that people use zbrush, is this a standard method?
Any info would help.
Zbrush is used to make normal maps and such.
I believe for normal Workshop submissions this is true? But the rules of the Polycount competition state
It says should which implies optional tbh.
Yes, a second LOD is optional; but it means they give preference to entries which include both. What they're saying is: "You SHOULD have two LODs. We can't force you to, but we do desire it."
In short, if you want to win, both LODs are required.
ZacD, you would want the LOD0 because that's the model they use all the places excpect for ingame. So when people are checking out their new items in the preview window, they see the LOD0 if you made one and not a super low poly mesh that is ment to be viewed 20 meters above.
Thx!
Okay, so I actually figured out how to properly check for alphas, and figured I'd make this list for the use of every-and-anyone.
If I goofed somewhere, please tell me.
On workshop rules site its stated that:
"The "_normal" texture should be 24-bit and use the 3dsmax format(red channel is left; green is up; blue is top)."
Although after downloading Faceless Void files I saw that normals there were:
Red - Right, Green - Up. Maybe I am blind, but still I am confused right now. Other thing that normals can be swapped later if necessary...
ps. Don't know if its only me, but after importing FBX files of Faceles Void object and bones were having weird scale and offset in their pivots what lead to bad placement of exported meshes... I made about 28 different exports and after that just for fun I imported SMD file and first export from it was placed correctly.... Maybe that will help someone else struggling with export problems.
First I made the mistake of importing the objects into Zbrush and trying to create the normal map with the UVs overlapping, which created a normal map that could not be used.
In order to fix this issue I took the overlapping UVs and placed them outside the 0-1 space, but the Normal map was deformed still (motion blurred).
I finally decided to delete the half of the geometry that would be duplicated, create the normal map in Zbrush and then duplicate what needed to be mirrored in Maya.
I thought that would work well, but could not verify as maya kept crashing when I tried to render with a normal map.
After reinstalling maya, I was finally able to test the map, and the mirrored geometry appeared with the normal mapping inverted (what should have appeared as bumped, appeared to go inwards).
I have tested this with 3 different renders, using:
Mental Ray: normal mapping inverted
Maya Sofware: normal mapping inverted
Maya Hardware: It worked!
After doing some research it seems that in 3Ds Max this inversion does not happen, and that most recent game engines do support mirrored normal maps.
I could not find if that was the case for DOTA2, but I assume it is since we are encouraged to overlap UVs.
Does anyone know for sure if DOTA2 supports mirrored normal mapping, as that would mean I would not have to rework my UVs, redo the normal maps and textures, and lose texture space.
EDIT neeevermind finally found it.
if Phantom Assassin doesn't have the alpha channel, how was this item able to glow in game?