After a couple of months of using the ag coating doesn't bother me as much. Not sure if my eyes got used to it or if the effect starts to diminish after being used for a certain amount of time. If you have the 2nd generation 21ux i recommend you keep it, there is no reason to get 22hd.
If yiu have the 1st gen 21ux, try before you buy. Especially if you use the 21 at work! You will notice the effect a lot more when you fire up the 22 after working on a clear screen for 8 hours.
Its too bad there aren't more competitors with wacom to force them to have more competitive pricing... I would say they really stifle newcomers trying to get into the industry, especially when they have a hefty bill from college then lets not forget the price of programs too :poly118:
So for those who have been using one of the new monsters for awhile ... is it worth upgrading from a 21WSX model? My gut says no but I figured I'd ask.
Its too bad there aren't more competitors with wacom to force them to have more competitive pricing... I would say they really stifle newcomers trying to get into the industry, especially when they have a hefty bill from college then lets not forget the price of programs too :poly118:
while i kinda understand that the prices feel high, i kind of understand them. What should they make their money with? My Intuos 2 is still in great shape. i use it when i'm out of office and it has everything i need. now this tablet was released in 2001 which is 11 years ago. How are they supposed to make money? like lots of pther companies, with planned obsolesence? Its professional equipment which lasts ages, its not supposed to be cheap consumer ware for the masses
Yeah if they made a shit product and had a patent on it I would be pissed off. But they make pretty solid stuff(Cintiq's hit and miss) and so the used market is healthy and great value.
I wonder the same thing about Pixologic. How do they do lifetime upgrades for free on ZBrush? I know guys who have been using it for 10+ years and have never paid for an upgrade, ever.
I bought a 21ux refurbished about 2 years ago and it is still amazing. Was only 1300 if I remember right too. Easily one of the best purchases I have made over the last few years for my career/arts....
After using my 22HD for about a week now, it looks like i'm going to be returning it.
I'll write more on it later when I get a chance but it's 100% due to the anti glare. Everything else is great and it saddens me that Wacom seems to have taken such a step backwards with the anti glare. I've had a couple people tell me they were able to eventually get used to it, but for $2000 you really shouldn't have to, especially when the previous model doesn't have this problem.
If you're thinking about picking one up I'd say be cautious and see if you can try one first so you at least know what you're getting into. Depending on what you do might determine its level of annoyance. For sculpting and drawing I was more easily able to look past it, but when I would paint and wanted to use bright colors or anything close to white, it becomes extremely apparent.
I feel like in general i'm not an easily bothered person but the gritty/blurry look of the ag reeeally urks me. When I pulled it out of the box and fired it up, both my wife and I thought that something was wrong and that it might be defective. We thought we might be crazy so I had Murph come over and give me a second opinion and he seemed to come to the same conclusions.
I'm sure it's something that I would eventually get used to but switching between the 22HD and the 21UX at work has probably made it a little more jarring. Either way I'm hoping it somehow gets fixed not too far down the road but I sort of doubt it's going to be fixed.
I'm not having the same ish as others. I dig my 22HD.. I can definitely see some difference between it and my reg. LCD.. but it's nothing that interferes with my workflow.
If I had experienced the 21UX before, maybe I'd have something to complain about.. but I upgraded from the 12WX.. and it's bonkers how much more efficiently I'm working..
Love it.
Also.. pixologic hasn't charged for an upgrade ever. I've been using Zbrush since 1.5 or some such.. I don't know how they continue to do it either..
I really enjoy everything about the cintiq. The buttons feel far nicer than the intuos5 and even my old intuos3 that's been gathering dust. I also happen to dislike touch rings, so the touch strips on the back are great. It doesn't eat up pen tips like the 5 does either. I have it mounted on an extra monitor arm so I can move it around, rotate it, and tilt it almost horizontally in my lap if I feel like it. The anti-glare is something I can overlook because everything else feels so great to me.
However, I thought I would provide a rough comparison so people can know what they're getting into. It basically feels like a photoshop noise filter that sparkles if you move your head around. Compared to my crisp 27 inch monitor, it can be a little harsh and definitely something to consider before purchasing.
It had significant cursor lag and the distance between the glass and LCD caused more cursor parallax than I found acceptable. I removed the front glass, scraped the coating off, and I lessened the distance between the glass and LCD with some modding. I've always been very sensitive to input lag, so I still found it less than ideal and sold it to a friend on the cheap.
I've been systematically reviewing competing hardware and have found UC-Logic/Monoprice to be a valid competitor on the tablet front. However, there are no real contenders on the tablet-monitor side.
Yiynova uses a Waltop digitizer with a low LPI and crap drivers. They're jittery as hell.
Hanvon's Sentip is so expensive that you might as well buy a Cintiq 12WSX.
P-Active likely uses a UC-Logic digitizer. Given how good the Monoprice rebranded UC-Logic tablets are, I have hope, but the P-Active monitors are actually half the LPI of the Monoprice tablets. That leads me to believe the tablet monitor, despite having a UC-Logic digitizer, would likely suffer the same jitter problems as the Yiynovas.
As it stands, we have no good options for tablet-monitor-digitizer pairings. I do recommend UC-Logic's vanilla graphics tablets though.
It had significant cursor lag and the distance between the glass and LCD caused more cursor parallax than I found acceptable. I removed the front glass, scraped the coating off, and I lessened the distance between the glass and LCD with some modding. I've always been very sensitive to input lag, so I still found it less than ideal and sold it to a friend on the cheap.
I've been systematically reviewing competing hardware and have found UC-Logic/Monoprice to be a valid competitor on the tablet front. However, there are no real contenders on the tablet-monitor side.
Yiynova uses a Waltop digitizer with a low LPI and crap drivers. They're jittery as hell.
Hanvon's Sentip is so expensive that you might as well buy a Cintiq 12WSX.
P-Active likely uses a UC-Logic digitizer. Given how good the Monoprice rebranded UC-Logic tablets are, I have hope, but the P-Active monitors are actually half the LPI of the Monoprice tablets. That leads me to believe the tablet monitor, despite having a UC-Logic digitizer, would likely suffer the same jitter problems as the Yiynovas.
As it stands, we have no good options for tablet-monitor-digitizer pairings. I do recommend UC-Logic's vanilla graphics tablets though.
I had no cursor lag on the 12wx and I had and no cursor lag on the second generation 21UX I have. I believe cursor lag is caused by the computer driving the cintiq since ive never had a problem with that. I dont notice any issues with the distance of the line because of glass layers or anything. There is no glare on my setup either. I do have an antiglare screen protector on it though not because I had glare but because it only has stuff around the very edge to hold it on so there are no bubbles this way. The screen does look better without it but id rather protect it from scratches. As everyone knows wacom claims that the screens shouldnt scratch despite the millions of photos showing that it does.
So picked up a 22hd for christmas... holy shit this thing emits the most annoying high pictched buzzing sound I've ever heard from a piece of hardware.
Apparently it's a big issue on their forums.
I'm looking for solutions before sending it back.
Hugely disappointing, how did such an obvious defect get pushed through to the market?
It could be noise on the power supply. Perhaps it's some 60 cycle hum on an upper harmonic? Do you have an uninterruptible power supply you can run it on?
no it's something to do with the USB connection device, as unplugging that eliminates it.
Other people have remarked as much, and found no solution. Apparently it's a fairly common occurrence with units build back in august/September, which mine is.
Definitely looks like I'm sending this thing back out :poly127:
I was going to buy one for xmas, but i didn't do it because i have readed too many complaints about the cintiq 22HD. I returned a dell monitor 2408wfp in part due to what Suidae posted with the image.
I'm still using a intuos 3, and i have tried the 5 and it's the same in perfomance. I also tried a cintiq 24HD touch and in my opinion is a total garbage for its price (it has a huge lag and i can't do fast strokes, and the brightness is another issue)
In the upcoming months there will be new AH-IPS monitors with great quality of image. The new Dell U2713H is on sale and may be a better thing to buy rather than a cintiq with poor quality image and a bad tft panel. LG will ship a new model called LG EA83, 27" and similar to the new Dell, and surely with a better price.
2000+ dollars or 1700+ euros for too many issues with a cintiq 22HD, in my opinion, is a robbery, a total scam. Furthermore, their driver support is pathetic.
2000+ dollars or 1700+ euros for too many issues with a cintiq 22HD, in my opinion, is a robbery, a total scam. Furthermore, their driver support is pathetic.
Don't buy a cintiq now.
Yeah, seems a bit iffy. I did enjoy the thing while I doodled with it for a bit. I didn't have a huge glare problem, I can see that being an issue with anyone that needs absolute color accuracy.
The tablet felt good, had a good size, and since I work typically in hd aspect ratios, felt good with whatever I opened up.
I don't think however, it's a huge step beyond the 21ux at all.
Also the buzzing noise was a total buzz kill, I can't use that especially since I already have pretty severe tinnitus in the first place (extra annoying).
I'm gonna get it replaced, but if I run into any more problems I think I'm going to start looking elsewhere.
I've been working with a 24hd at work and I love the thing to death. I can see the slight antiglare sparkle people talk about, but only when I peer really close to the screen and focus on it. I always check the resulting images/textures on my calibrated lp2475w anyways to make sure everything is solid.
I was never interested in a cintiq till I got one at work, and now I really want to buy one for the house, they're just so expensive. I'll def. pick one of these yiynovas up in a month or so when the holiday money drain isn't hitting me so hard.
Edit:
I haven't had any issues with noise, heat, drivers, etc. so far, though a friend of mine had a 22hd that was hot and loud, it may be just the 22hd while the 24hd is better off?
Second Edit:
After reading through the entire thread, those yiynovas don't look so hot.. I'll have to look into used cintiqs and try to decide which route is the best.
I think the main issue I have with the 24 hd is that it weights 70lbs or so, compared with the 22hd's 30 (20 for the monitor itself, 10 for the stand, not sure how that pans out for the 24hd, but it's more than a posable arm can hold for sure)
I do have an update and it mainly concerns amazon: I posted a review indicating this problem, and put in a que for sending it back for a replacement. Their customer service picked it up immediately, told me they would talk to the supplier about this, and send me a replacement with 1 day shipping immediately, no charge.
I admit I'm pretty much floored; amazon just did right by me. That's pretty much the best customer service response I've ever encountered personally.
On the other hand I'm still waiting for a response from wacom.
I'm looking to sell my Wacom 24hd, had it for about 5months, haven't been using it enough and I personally can't get comfortable with it.
It's in perfect condition, little use, can ship to the UK. Looking for £1625 excluding shipping (haven't looked into shipping cost yet! OR I'm located in Nottingham UK)
Thought i'd post here before ebay, give me a PM if interested,
Replies
If yiu have the 1st gen 21ux, try before you buy. Especially if you use the 21 at work! You will notice the effect a lot more when you fire up the 22 after working on a clear screen for 8 hours.
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Intuos2-6x8-Graphics-Tablet/dp/B000060PEV/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1348839393&sr=1-13&keywords=refurbished+intuos]amazon link[/ame]
while i kinda understand that the prices feel high, i kind of understand them. What should they make their money with? My Intuos 2 is still in great shape. i use it when i'm out of office and it has everything i need. now this tablet was released in 2001 which is 11 years ago. How are they supposed to make money? like lots of pther companies, with planned obsolesence? Its professional equipment which lasts ages, its not supposed to be cheap consumer ware for the masses
Also that shit better be 64 bit!
I'll write more on it later when I get a chance but it's 100% due to the anti glare. Everything else is great and it saddens me that Wacom seems to have taken such a step backwards with the anti glare. I've had a couple people tell me they were able to eventually get used to it, but for $2000 you really shouldn't have to, especially when the previous model doesn't have this problem.
If you're thinking about picking one up I'd say be cautious and see if you can try one first so you at least know what you're getting into. Depending on what you do might determine its level of annoyance. For sculpting and drawing I was more easily able to look past it, but when I would paint and wanted to use bright colors or anything close to white, it becomes extremely apparent.
I feel like in general i'm not an easily bothered person but the gritty/blurry look of the ag reeeally urks me. When I pulled it out of the box and fired it up, both my wife and I thought that something was wrong and that it might be defective. We thought we might be crazy so I had Murph come over and give me a second opinion and he seemed to come to the same conclusions.
I'm sure it's something that I would eventually get used to but switching between the 22HD and the 21UX at work has probably made it a little more jarring. Either way I'm hoping it somehow gets fixed not too far down the road but I sort of doubt it's going to be fixed.
If I had experienced the 21UX before, maybe I'd have something to complain about.. but I upgraded from the 12WX.. and it's bonkers how much more efficiently I'm working..
Love it.
Also.. pixologic hasn't charged for an upgrade ever. I've been using Zbrush since 1.5 or some such.. I don't know how they continue to do it either..
However, I thought I would provide a rough comparison so people can know what they're getting into. It basically feels like a photoshop noise filter that sparkles if you move your head around. Compared to my crisp 27 inch monitor, it can be a little harsh and definitely something to consider before purchasing.
It had significant cursor lag and the distance between the glass and LCD caused more cursor parallax than I found acceptable. I removed the front glass, scraped the coating off, and I lessened the distance between the glass and LCD with some modding. I've always been very sensitive to input lag, so I still found it less than ideal and sold it to a friend on the cheap.
I've been systematically reviewing competing hardware and have found UC-Logic/Monoprice to be a valid competitor on the tablet front. However, there are no real contenders on the tablet-monitor side.
Yiynova uses a Waltop digitizer with a low LPI and crap drivers. They're jittery as hell.
Hanvon's Sentip is so expensive that you might as well buy a Cintiq 12WSX.
P-Active likely uses a UC-Logic digitizer. Given how good the Monoprice rebranded UC-Logic tablets are, I have hope, but the P-Active monitors are actually half the LPI of the Monoprice tablets. That leads me to believe the tablet monitor, despite having a UC-Logic digitizer, would likely suffer the same jitter problems as the Yiynovas.
As it stands, we have no good options for tablet-monitor-digitizer pairings. I do recommend UC-Logic's vanilla graphics tablets though.
I had no cursor lag on the 12wx and I had and no cursor lag on the second generation 21UX I have. I believe cursor lag is caused by the computer driving the cintiq since ive never had a problem with that. I dont notice any issues with the distance of the line because of glass layers or anything. There is no glare on my setup either. I do have an antiglare screen protector on it though not because I had glare but because it only has stuff around the very edge to hold it on so there are no bubbles this way. The screen does look better without it but id rather protect it from scratches. As everyone knows wacom claims that the screens shouldnt scratch despite the millions of photos showing that it does.
Apparently it's a big issue on their forums.
I'm looking for solutions before sending it back.
Hugely disappointing, how did such an obvious defect get pushed through to the market?
Other people have remarked as much, and found no solution. Apparently it's a fairly common occurrence with units build back in august/September, which mine is.
Definitely looks like I'm sending this thing back out :poly127:
I'm still using a intuos 3, and i have tried the 5 and it's the same in perfomance. I also tried a cintiq 24HD touch and in my opinion is a total garbage for its price (it has a huge lag and i can't do fast strokes, and the brightness is another issue)
In the upcoming months there will be new AH-IPS monitors with great quality of image. The new Dell U2713H is on sale and may be a better thing to buy rather than a cintiq with poor quality image and a bad tft panel. LG will ship a new model called LG EA83, 27" and similar to the new Dell, and surely with a better price.
2000+ dollars or 1700+ euros for too many issues with a cintiq 22HD, in my opinion, is a robbery, a total scam. Furthermore, their driver support is pathetic.
Don't buy a cintiq now.
Yeah, seems a bit iffy. I did enjoy the thing while I doodled with it for a bit. I didn't have a huge glare problem, I can see that being an issue with anyone that needs absolute color accuracy.
The tablet felt good, had a good size, and since I work typically in hd aspect ratios, felt good with whatever I opened up.
I don't think however, it's a huge step beyond the 21ux at all.
Also the buzzing noise was a total buzz kill, I can't use that especially since I already have pretty severe tinnitus in the first place (extra annoying).
I'm gonna get it replaced, but if I run into any more problems I think I'm going to start looking elsewhere.
Also:
I was never interested in a cintiq till I got one at work, and now I really want to buy one for the house, they're just so expensive. I'll def. pick one of these yiynovas up in a month or so when the holiday money drain isn't hitting me so hard.
Edit:
I haven't had any issues with noise, heat, drivers, etc. so far, though a friend of mine had a 22hd that was hot and loud, it may be just the 22hd while the 24hd is better off?
Second Edit:
After reading through the entire thread, those yiynovas don't look so hot.. I'll have to look into used cintiqs and try to decide which route is the best.
I do have an update and it mainly concerns amazon: I posted a review indicating this problem, and put in a que for sending it back for a replacement. Their customer service picked it up immediately, told me they would talk to the supplier about this, and send me a replacement with 1 day shipping immediately, no charge.
I admit I'm pretty much floored; amazon just did right by me. That's pretty much the best customer service response I've ever encountered personally.
On the other hand I'm still waiting for a response from wacom.
It's in perfect condition, little use, can ship to the UK. Looking for £1625 excluding shipping (haven't looked into shipping cost yet! OR I'm located in Nottingham UK)
Thought i'd post here before ebay, give me a PM if interested,
Cheers, Adam.