In the end what you think Valve will choose? to pick what sells more or select one set of each contributor and create a queue with all of them to be added in game. I understand your guys frustration, but lets keep this discussion on a a healthy level
What's the point of the Workshop then? Just close it down and let Valve ask the favorites personally through email for submissions, because the workshop doesn't matter at all from the looks of it, since they want to stick closely to a handful of people, there's no reason for having an open place to submit items when they're just left to rot, unless you're on a special list from people who got on it early.
- I've been involved in the Source art/modding community nonstop since 2009.
- That player set had nothing to do with TI3.
- Dry and I quit our jobs at Gearbox last October so that we could dedicate a full-time effort towards creating content for Dota and safely promote our work without fear of getting in trouble at work (I was almost sued at a previous job). Leaving a stable job was an enormous risk (and we chose in favor of our passions), and we hope it eventually will pay off.
- I work 12-15 hours a day on a hand with torn ligaments and failed surgeries that I cannot afford to fix, I literally cannot work any harder for fear of permanently damaging myself.
- Not a dude (you'd think my celebrity status from TI3 would have made that obvious, lol).
i like hearing more about peoples situations and the personalities behind the avatar. i like the drive you have! take care of that hand tho!! eeek!!!!
First, there is no reason to attack other artists for their success. Let's keep it civil.
I think Bounch put it pretty eloquently. I'm happy that Anuxi gets recognition for her hard work. Seeing the quality she puts into her sculpts has honestly given me a bar to shoot for and I really like the new Dazzle set. That being said, I don't know why the other, 11(?) sets are all of her items most of which have been in the game for some time. I really don't know why those other 11 spots could not have gone to other artist's sets in the workshop. Similar to the chests for Radiant and Dire arms where there are 10 different sets with one slim chance random.
Since the Radiant and Dire arms chests went live there has been plenty of awesome stuff on the front page of the workshop. The last patch had some new sets as well that were posted around the 8th of March. Who knows, maybe next week we'll have a new patch with some of those items made in between March 8th up to now. But seeing the chance for 10 artists to prosper in favor for one is kind of a hit.
And, just for full disclaimer, I'd be lying if some of my feelings bubbling up weren't that of jealousy. I'll own that much. It's petty and realistically I should be happy to see anyone prosper because it means that there's a chance for me. Two weeks ago I got a set onto the front page where most my stuff was sitting in 2 of the 3 top spots for a week. It may never get in and that's fine. It's just seeing a set get fast tracked within five days of submission, thrown into a chest with older items by the same artist when other cool sets have been in the workshop over the last three weeks are getting sidelined. Again, I want to clarify that this isn't against Anuxi. I like her stuff, and I'd be as frustrated if this were any other single artist being promoted over the slew of skilled items we've seen lately.
And, just for full disclaimer, I'd be lying if some of my feelings bubbling up weren't that of jealousy. I'll own that much. It's petty and realistically I should be happy to see anyone prosper because it means that there's a chance for me.
That's like, normal reaction for majority of people, you'd have to be a saint or something else not to feel like that sometimes. You can be genuinely happy and jealous for someone at same time, point is where do you turn that jealousy to go, either you'll wallow in self-pity or you're gonna grind your ass to get better. That's how I treat it at least.
That said, one day I'd like to see hero in Dota 2 that's named after me. Man, imagine that fucking honor. :V
The thing that saddens me sometimes are some of the amazing sets/items that been on workshop for months/year that will most likely never make it into the game.
Well we all said this is what the workshop would eventually become so im not really mad or surprised at all. I gave up after the chinese event and just make smaller stuff for fun now. But i am glad i managed to get some stuff in while the workshop was still good though.
Maybe eventually Valve will remember what the workshop was originally for so i can come back.
Anyway, i like that you guys are at least trying to fix it instead of giving up like me. :]
To be honest, either workshop artists are going to disban or the creativity/Valve's income will run dry. Only then, will our items that's stuck in submission/acceptance hell be rewarded for. Not to imply they will lose money, but if every workshop artist disbands then it will most likely be the case. On another note, if Valve accepts a gigantic amount of items, it would overwhelm the buyers to which set to choose. You can't wear all the cosmetics at once. So, there's that.
To be honest, either workshop artists are going to disban or the creativity/Valve's income will run dry. Only then, will our items that's stuck in submission/acceptance hell be rewarded for. Not to imply they will lose money, but if every workshop artist disbands then it will most likely be the case. On another note, if Valve accepts a gigantic amount of items, it would overwhelm the buyers to which set to choose. You can't wear all the cosmetics at once. So, there's that.
It's still nowhere near as bad as the TF2 workshop/update situation, but I'm always hyper-wary of signs that Dota is heading in that sorta direction. Same bad situation, just different causes.
In the end what you think Valve will choose? to pick what sells more or select one set of each contributor and create a queue with all of them to be added in game. I understand your guys frustration, but lets keep this discussion on a a healthy level
At first glance it's an understandable business practice (obviously businesses exist to make money), but if they keep relying on a very select few people to be doing a majority of the work, what happens when those people no longer want to contribute for whatever reason? Instead of having a large, devoted base of artists to continue to draw from, they will get to the point where they alienate everyone else and when that well is dry then it's an uncomfortable situation for them.
I thought Valve was more of a long-term thinking company, but this seems quite the contrary. More happy workshop artists not only equals more art and sets, but more competition between everyone which will only propel the quality upwards, which is beneficial for everyone involved. Not to mention there will always be more choices, and nothing says that other people or even new members can't make a set that's incredibly popular. Who knows, the 'best/highest selling set ever' might not even have come out yet, and it could be by anyone here, if they don't get discouraged first by how Valve is handling the workshop currently. By limiting the amount of people involved you are harshly limiting creativity.
I just think it's better for the community as a whole INCLUDING Valve if they spread the love around and encourage more people to participate rather than alienate a majority of their current workshoppers. I look up to Valve a ton, but for the first time ever I'm really questioning their decision making abilities, at least as far as the workshop is concerned.
I've been lucky enough that my first two set submissions have made it up on the front page of the week's most popular, even if only for a few days, and nowhere near the top. I got into the workshop just recently because, from what I could see on the outside of all this, it seemed like a great opportunity for everyone involved.
I don't have anything to complain about, seeing as I just started this and can't expect to get accepted right off the bat. But as someone who is concerned about not using an organization or an affiliation with a team/player as any sort of crutch for my work, now or in the future, it is really discouraging to hear about this, and to see what it's doing to the community.
I know that letters to Valve have failed to result in anything, but is there anything that we can do as a community to bring more exposure to the work of workshop artists who aren't already as well known?
It hardly seems like a solution to the real problem, but I would like to think that something positive could come out of all this contention.
huge disclaimer. I've neither made nor ever gotten anything in the workshop.
While i understand the pain. Everyone has danced around the subject that Anuxi's items make valve lots of money. her sets sell, her single items sell. Her dedicated single item chest is still selling like 50+ a day. that chest is what? six months old now?
While it would be amazing for valve to show more equality to other artists. each new artist poses a risk. they accept your set that community up voted... but maybe up voting doesn't correlate with purchases. Anuxi and her sets are a known quantity, I'm sure Valve has an employee who has an Anuxi algorithm. Hero popularity X anuxi feathers X in game quality level = X CASH in bank.
With that being said Anuxi did make a set for LC with the purpose of getting it in for the spring event. while that set was added later to the game (probably the Anuxi Algorithm at work) they didn't go with her and instead promoted other artists, who from my humble point of view built sets that had more to do with the Chinese new year then anuxi's greko roman horse head armor.
Valve very much is first a "for Profit" business. They come with all the "evil" corporate trimmings.
now... does anything i've said help... probably not...
But you can't Shout "favoritism" when the math means that anuxi is the bigger cash cow. not leveraging her work would be akin to cutting off a nose to spite the face.
Could Valve do more to showcase other sets and artists?
probably...
what would that look like? would you want a valve/dota2.com run section were they could showcase short interview videos to help other artists build a following? do other artists even have the time for something as short as a VINE or a 2:30 second interview.
Would reworking how people get notified a Favorited artist / contributor has posted new work to the workshop? at the moment even though i am subscribed to many of you guys I never ever get notified in steam that you've made new work. I come here to find that out.
Would adding a pre-purchase (almost kickstarter like) button to the sets that made up vote milestones make it easier for valve to A) gauge actual sales of a set. real interest in the community for this set. help?
the other side of this is what could polycount do as a community to expose more artists. an idea that people would probably feel is against there basic interests but if as a whole everyone promoted everyones work isn't that more exposure / a bigger audience / a greater chance at acceptance. what happened to polycounters putting the Polycount green happy scary face on their item splash images? why doesn't everyone link back to their polycount forum threads in the item description. why don't you post process work in the Dota 2 community art / screenshot section.
anyways END rant. when i get another chance i'll edit the shit outa this for posterity.
and i'll apologize now if i've completely misread the convo, pissed people off, or talked out of my ass about things i really shouldn't have.
I know that letters to Valve have failed to result in anything, but is there anything that we can do as a community to bring more exposure to the work of workshop artists who aren't already as well known?
There is talk of a Reddit AMA with Workshop Artists that was being put together in this thread. It would be a great opportunity to not only talk about the work that we do but also discuss some of the issues with the Workshop as a whole.
There is a Google Doc in that thread if you want to register your interest.
@Hawkseye - The chinese event was meh anyways. Tell the entire artist community to create art for a specific and art style-bending theme all submitted at relatively the same time with 1% of them being accepted? What could go wrong?
section were they could showcase short interview videos to help other artists build a following?
As a quick aside, I'm actually working on this. I wanted to keep it a secret until I had more built up/ready to go, but I plan on having a series of spotlight interviews of artists in this community that have been putting out fantastic work and deserve more recognition.
@Hawkseye - The chinese event was meh anyways. Tell the entire artist community to create art for a specific and art style-bending theme all submitted at relatively the same time with 1% of them being accepted? What could go wrong?
to me, that was not the issue, the problem that i saw, and again, Anuxi's work is amazing, and i keep watching her stream and learning new things, is that her set was added after the event, to me at least, that seemed a bit wrong, i understand perfectly why they did it, and from a business perspective it makes sense.
Just speculation, but I really do think valve is aware of all this drama, but there isnt much they can do about it, without causing a domino effect. They are going to need the most brilliant minds to come up with a solution.
Lets say, Valve does become the equality gods, and add every highly rated set to a que list. Even then, that would become a huge problem because it would take forever for a set to get in, and then a lot of artist would be complaining "my set will never get in because there are too many submissions".
the solution to that would be to increase the average amount of sets accepted right? even then there would be people complaining about there being too many sets to pick from, and that the sets will not remotely be profitable at all.
and now since its harder for sets to get in, I can imagine a lot of artist disbanding because it wouldnt be worth their time or isnt profittable enough.
so it would have all the same side effects as of now.
just speculation tho, but I highly anticipate this would happen.
like what poodleswinthguns said , im sure Valve is using some sort of algorithem when deciding what sets get in.
So... Instead of people giving up because there is too many good sets so yours never will get in game, they should give up because they don't have a chance against valves faves PLUS there is too many sets so yours never will get in? I'm pretty certain all of us is aware of the competition, we just want the competition to be fair for everyone.
So... Instead of people giving up because there is too many good sets so yours never will get in game, they should give up because they don't have a chance against valves faves PLUS there is too many sets so yours never will get in? I'm pretty certain all of us is aware of the competition, we just want the competition to be fair for everyone.
I dont think Valve is completely ignoring everyone, a lot of sets get in from unknown artist. There is a bubble ofcourse, but those outside the bubble also get stuff accepted...
I think this whole fairness thing is going to have the same outcome as it is now.
I think the whole fariness thing worked before, but it wont work anymore with the rising amount of workshop artist entering every day. so to get in the bubble you have to do something that other workshoppers are not doing, something unique. which is exactly what is happening. Alot of people are reverting to tournament sets. What I noticed that worked is good marketing and promotion, me and my brother have been doing a video for all our sets to try and increase the fanbase of the set we worked on, and it seems to be working.
anyone else concerned that Anuxi who posts to this here thread will see this?
I love her work, I've bought her sets, i hope nothing i said prior could be misconstrued as shit talking.
the only thing I will not take back and DID mean. was the Anuxi feather count to cash amount algorithm that shit is real and nobody can tell me it's not.
anyone else concerned that Anuxi who posts to this here thread will see this?
I love her work, I've bought her sets, i hope nothing i said prior could be misconstrued as shit talking.
the only thing I will not take back and DID mean. was the Anuxi feather count to cash amount algorithm that shit is real and nobody can tell me it's not.
you do amazing feathers.
Why would anyone need to be concerned about Anuxi seeing this discussion? The issue is with Valve, she got nothing to do with the problem.
No I don't think any of us is concerned anuxi sees this. We all respect her loads, and most people are using her as the example since it was her chest that was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of us. This is not about her per-se, but about valve.
At first glance it's an understandable business practice (obviously businesses exist to make money), but if they keep relying on a very select few people to be doing a majority of the work, what happens when those people no longer want to contribute for whatever reason? Instead of having a large, devoted base of artists to continue to draw from, they will get to the point where they alienate everyone else and when that well is dry then it's an uncomfortable situation for them.
I thought Valve was more of a long-term thinking company, but this seems quite the contrary. More happy workshop artists not only equals more art and sets, but more competition between everyone which will only propel the quality upwards, which is beneficial for everyone involved. Not to mention there will always be more choices, and nothing says that other people or even new members can't make a set that's incredibly popular. Who knows, the 'best/highest selling set ever' might not even have come out yet, and it could be by anyone here, if they don't get discouraged first by how Valve is handling the workshop currently. By limiting the amount of people involved you are harshly limiting creativity.
I just think it's better for the community as a whole INCLUDING Valve if they spread the love around and encourage more people to participate rather than alienate a majority of their current workshoppers. I look up to Valve a ton, but for the first time ever I'm really questioning their decision making abilities, at least as far as the workshop is concerned.
I do agree with you about the encorage thing, some of the updates this year were really demotivational, like updates just for items bound to championships and updates with item for just one organization.
And the lack of communication makes everything worse
anyone else concerned that Anuxi who posts to this here thread will see this?
I love her work, I've bought her sets, i hope nothing i said prior could be misconstrued as shit talking.
the only thing I will not take back and DID mean. was the Anuxi feather count to cash amount algorithm that shit is real and nobody can tell me it's not.
you do amazing feathers.
As several others said, none of this should be about Anuxi. If people have beef its with Valve. I have been a fan if Anuxi's work pre-dota, and love the dota hats she makes. I think some people are taking this the wrong way. I finally had something added after trying for about 2 years (including tf2) I have faith that we will see more content added each month. I agree some, as I previously stated, don't deserve to workshop. I think as Valve evolves Steam ugc delivery will evolve too.
TL: DR
Anuxi rules, her doto hats rule, congrats again!
I've got a lot more work to do, if I can get doto hats in, so can you!
Anuxi's work is great I love her work. I think that from all I have seen on her stream, she I a wonderful person. I think envy got the best of a few people.
Based on the language that Valve uses they clearly see Anuxi as a commodity:
"In addition, this treasure has a chance of containing:
Genuine Shadow Flame A chest of sets created by the community contributor Anuxi."
This isn't a bad thing. Anuxi's items sell and with good reason.
Chemical Alia, It is really sad to see how hard you work and what you have to work with and have less than you would like to show for it financially. I really like your work and would love to see more of it in game.
I think the way valve feels is that workshop contributors are hobbyists (and I am so for me that is fair) and they feel that any amount they give to any artist is a blessing. Obviously there are people producing high quality work that rely on accepted items to survive. Unfortunately I cannot see them changing the direction they are currently moving in. Money comes from branding and they want to have strong brands, names of artists and players alike are strong brands. Occasionally they will still add items from lesser known artists but my guess is that the future of the workshop is not going to be a viable income for more than a few people.
My only solution would be for the really serious artists to try and establish brands of your own. I know that isn't a very enjoyable prospect for most artists,and it wont be easy, Anuxi has worked hard for hers but it seems like the most assured way to get items accepted.
anyone else concerned that Anuxi who posts to this here thread will see this?
I love her work, I've bought her sets, i hope nothing i said prior could be misconstrued as shit talking.
the only thing I will not take back and DID mean. was the Anuxi feather count to cash amount algorithm that shit is real and nobody can tell me it's not.
you do amazing feathers.
Nobody here has slagged off Anuxi, I don't quite know where people are getting this idea from.
We're all quite happy for her I'm sure, and she produces really solid work. Not to mention she like all of us here would be able to appreciate where we're coming from.
I do sincerely think that with the developments over the last few months, perhaps even the last year after TI3 Valve has taken steps which really hurt the wider workshop community looking for long term stability. This most recent chest, and the other chests are imo a really good place to start a discussion. Chests seem to me like a form of short-termism. They gain traction and sales really quickly and fall off really fast. A quick cash grab if you will. Chests that continue to pull in sales after several months are a rarity.
In the past single items used to go into the store as well as go in via chests. That was maybe 2 years ago or something? Now they only go in via chests if at all - this means that artists who can only afford the time to do single items only have this single, short term avenue to get items into the game. The mercurial nature of the workshop compounds this problem, because it means we need to produce items in great quantities to assure ourselves of getting as good a chance as possible.
Now this approach is the one that Valve is starting to use for sets as well, probably to try to cope with the insane amount of work the community is putting out. And this latest chest is where Valve I think has seriously dropped the ball. All the pieces of Anuxi's set chest are available on the community market other than the dazzle set. If people want the other pieces they can get them at half the key price on the market. So the main draw other than a casual purchase really is the dazzle set, which has markedly inflated value on the market now. I hear about 30 bucks or something. However, since we get reduced percentages from market sales (from recent experience, I'd say 1/4 of what we usually get. So around 6.25%) for each $30 purchase on the market Anuxi is getting maybe around 1.80. Add in the key sales and that sounds pretty good, but if the key sales drop off like the other chests and the value of the set on the market goes down, then I honestly think Anuxi is the one who gets shafted.
That is even before I can get started on how putting all those easily available items into a chest hurts Valve's reputation with us, hurts the principles I've always felt the workshop aspired towards, and hurts the people who're relying on this for a living. Sets are only available in limited quantity, and are one of the few opportunities to get stuff into the game. For Valve to basically take all the available opportunities this latest chest provides and give them to a single artist when there are tons of sets on the workshop waiting and artists praying for approval is like a huge slap to the face. I'm a little distanced from this all because I work a full time job, I can only imagine what it's like for people who gave up their jobs for the workshop.
Valve has always played favourites, that's really nothing new. But combined with how many people there are vying for places and the new way that they're letting items in, imo it's becoming a bigger issue than ever.
I don't mind chests really. They're a good bit of fun, and for the lesser workshop artists like myself who can't keep hammering out sets every week they've always been a source of hope. But they really should not be the only way to get stuff into the game, and I hope they don't become the norm. Unfortunately between the volume of tournament/pro/community sponsored items and how Valve is experimenting with sets in a chest system I'm not particularly optimistic.
Nobody here has slagged off Anuxi, I don't quite know where people are getting this idea from.
We're all quite happy for her I'm sure, and she produces really solid work. Not to mention she like all of us here would be able to appreciate where we're coming from.
I do sincerely think that with the developments over the last few months, perhaps even the last year after TI3 Valve has taken steps which really hurt the wider workshop community. This most recent chest, and the other chests are imo a really good place to start a discussion. Chests seem to me like a form of short-termism. They gain traction and sales really quickly and fall off really fast. A quick cash grab if you will. Chests that continue to pull in sales after several months are a rarity.
In the past single items used to go into the store as well as go in via chests. That was maybe 2 years ago or something? Now they only go in via chests if at all - this means that artists who can only afford the time to do single items only have this single, short term avenue to get items into the game. The mercurial nature of the workshop compounds this problem, because it means we need to produce items in great quantities to assure ourselves of getting as good a chance as possible.
And now this is approach is the one that Valve is starting to use for sets as well, probably to try to cope with the insane amount of work the community is putting out. And this latest chest is where Valve I think has seriously dropped the ball. All the pieces of Anuxi's set chest are available on the community market other than the dazzle set. If people want the other pieces they can get them at half the key price on the market. So the main draw other than a casual purchase really is the dazzle set, which has markedly inflated value on the market now. I hear about 30 bucks or something. However, since we get reduced percentages from market sales (from recent experience, I'd say 1/4 of what we usually get. So around 6.25%) for each $30 purchase on the market Anuxi is getting maybe around 1.80. Add in the key sales and that sounds pretty good, but if the key sales drop off like the other chests, then I honestly think Anuxi is the one who gets shafted.
That is even before I can get started on how putting all those easily available items into a chest hurts Valve's reputation with us, hurts the principles I've always felt the workshop started from, and hurts the people who're relying on this for a living. I'm a little distanced from this all because I work a full time job, I can only imagine what it's like for people who gave up their jobs for the workshop.
I don't mind chests really. They're a good bit of fun, and for the lesser workshop artists like myself who can't keep hammering out sets every week they've always been a source of hope. But they really should not be the only way to get stuff into the game, and I hope they don't become the norm. Unfortunately between the volume of tournament/pro/community sponsored items and how Valve is experimenting with sets in a chest system I'm not particularly optimistic.
speaking about community market. If nobody has taken a look. Check out how CS:GO is currently setup.
Zero in game Market outside of keys. reduced chest occurrence rates.
and Every item from a chest is immediately marketable. the community market then decides the price of any item. with new items like the new dazzle set being High 30+ dollars until market / consumer saturation hits and the price begins to fall to what people are willing to sell for and pay for.
Something about the new set chests in dota / the way CS:GO is setup makes me believe that dota will follow sooner rather then later.
speaking about community market. If nobody has taken a look. Check out how CS:GO is currently setup.
Zero in game Market outside of keys. reduced chest occurrence rates.
and Every item from a chest is immediately marketable. the community market then decides the price of any item. with new items like the new dazzle set being High 30+ dollars until market / consumer saturation hits and the price begins to fall to what people are willing to sell for and pay for.
Something about the new set chests in dota / the way CS:GO is setup makes me believe that dota will follow sooner rather then later.
good or bad... i guess we'll see.
Letting the community decide the price of items sounds cool, in theory. The market does everything, which is something that Valve seems to like. System-ising stuff like that so they reduce the load on themselves(I quite enjoy that too actually :P). However that will provide an even less stable environment for artists and take away most of the control Valve has on the economy. Furthermore the community prices items (and likewise votes for them) based on their popularity, as opposed to artistic merit. As artists the hope that Valve will judge our items on their artistic merit is an important one which keeps us working imo. This has been called into question recently with the tournament sets, and you're already reading some of the backlash.
Considering that the Dota 2 store will not go away at the very least because of tournament and pro items, I don't see a community market only system as a likely scenario.
Also, as an interface the community market is sorely lacking, and as it stands the official store is a much more visible and official way of finding items Not of course strictly related to the economy, but it definitely affects purchasing on a practical level.
Money comes from branding and they want to have strong brands, names of artists and players alike are strong brands.
If thats the case and you want to do this, I urge you to get together with friends and people you work well with together and make a brand for yourselves. If they want brands, then we'll give it to them.
If thats the case and you want to do this, I urge you to get together with friends and people you work well with together and make a brand for yourselves. If they want brands, then we'll give it to them.
I think one of the problems is that since Anuxi's first chest, there have been arguably better artists contributing to the workshop. Where are their chests?
Giving Anuxi the original chest made sense as she was in many ways the first recognized workshop celebrity. I find the decision to give her a second one very odd and unfair to everyone else that has worked hard since then.
I think we all just need to write to Valve about the current problems facing the workshop. If enough people do, they will take notice. Add your personal stories and situations into it instead of just writing a technical breakdown of why we think it sucks.
I really think they (whoever is actually pushing workshop related content) just aren't considering the implications of the workshop system. By supporting so many of us over time they've created an expectation from us that they would continue to do so and I don't think they realize it. They have no way of knowing any of our situations or understanding our perspectives on it. From their perspective they're helping tournaments and artists and consistently putting out new items. Not thinking about how the rest of us are getting left behind.
Honestly I don't know how much longer I can continue doing this full-time if something doesn't change.
Since the Chinese events, all I see that 2014 is becoming a steep mountain to climb for "hobbyist" artists like me. No more single items, sets in chests, cheap sets, ...etc.
Then again, I don't have any other alternative where I can make an item and it could have a chance of making money and grow my portfolio at the same time.
What i find interesting about much of this is the change in chests, and Valves move away from single items towards a focus on sets. Which i think makes sense to a degree, as previously the income from a single item in a monthly chest could outweigh that of a reasonably selling Set, which isn't really equitable for artists making sets.
What concerns me is i don't see a huge amount of room for single items anymore, and singles have always been a great way for artists with less time or experience to break into the workshop or at least just be involved.
So from my perspective (which is based on a huge amount of presumption) it looks like Single sets, Bundled sets, Pro Team/Player Sets, Tournament Sets and Treasure Chest sets. Which is a pretty diverse selection of entry points for artists making sets.
For singles items, Bundles may be an option, like the bundle of hairdo's and the tournament set of two Pudge weapons. Outside of that will Valve continue to add single item chests? are single items still viable?
If thats the case and you want to do this, I urge you to get together with friends and people you work well with together and make a brand for yourselves. If they want brands, then we'll give it to them.
This, in a group or just as yourself. Anuxi and Redmoon are both great examples of how to do this and do it well.
Since the Chinese events, all I see that 2014 is becoming a steep mountain to climb for "hobbyist" artists like me. No more single items, sets in chests, cheap sets, ...etc.
Then again, I don't have any other alternative where I can make an item and it could have a chance of making money and grow my portfolio at the same time.
NAY BROTHERS, shouldst we fight this day and seek the destruction of one another?! Nay, for whereby is it that the moon should be without her sun or the sun without his moon? Thereby we must make way for a new dawn, a new day rising from the foundations of the firmament. A terrible light shining with fervor and brilliance, an encroaching dark consuming and enveloping. A celestial body of both light and dark, moon and sun. The eclipse my brothers....is coming.
Well I don't agree with these set chests, creating a set demands alot of work you all know. Volvo is trying to push harder. In the other hand, adds more variety for sets, so more goes in.
This is really bad news for singles guys, I can see that isn't even worth trying so, gg.
I'm not anything close to a workshop artist but I'm a trader and I know the market very well and I find this chest very insulting, it's just a very low tier move to milk money off people's ignorance. So many people don't even know how to use the steam market in which you can get these sets for these prices (and getting lower as I post this):
Light of the Solar Divine - $1.24
Bessings of the Wildwing - $0.51
Aspects of Summer Set - $0.74
Slithereen Nobility - $1.06
Snowdrop - $1.63
Nightsilver Sentinel - $2.10
Featherfall - $1.95
Divine Ascension - $0.55
Crescent Moon - $1.59
Equine Emissary - $2.00
Yet the key costs $2.50, and the chest doesn't even have a chance for a courier? only an average "very rare" set that has no reason to be higher quality than Mythical just to bait traders into opening it, really??? WHY did they even make this chest?? It's so biased just like those Dota-cinema and ticket-promoted low quality cosmetics, now it's all about marketing and nothing about quality
If thats the case and you want to do this, I urge you to get together with friends and people you work well with together and make a brand for yourselves. If they want brands, then we'll give it to them.
:poly136: I've not really ever worked with anyone else. For me I feel that I'm in awkward place where I dont have the level of skill to offer anything to anyone else. But I do think the Red Moon is a great idea you guys have and I'm sure similar partnerships will help a lot of the best contributors here.
Well I don't agree with these set chests, creating a set demands alot of work you all know. Volvo is trying to push harder. In the other hand, adds more variety for sets, so more goes in.
This is really bad news for singles guys, I can see that isn't even worth trying so, gg.
Some of the most expensive items on the market are singles. I think there will still be a place for them, albeit a limited one. I know the standard key price is what Valve is all about but what if they did cheaper chests for just singles?
Even if they don't do that I can see valve still doing the very best singles every so often. Lets see what happens with Prostomogy and the chest he uploaded.
Well that escalated pretty quickly, needed the sleep yesterday night so didn't post anything than but to be honost I'm pretty happy to read the last 5 pages of this thread. It's means a lot of ppl think the same and the workshop and Valve are in a need to change some things.
I've started and quit several times making items for the workshop. I keep getting back because ater a few months i do get something ingame, (although I'm affraid that's something in the past) and I just like playing the game. The problems these last few months are that instead of the workshop being a nice showcase for items, it's becoming a more and more saturated business.
Havent had a single item for the last 4 months being on the front page, ppl get 1k votes in less than half an hour. Ppl downvote items so there items will get a higher rating. The innocents of the whole workshop has been gone for some time I'm affraid. I've never downvoted/reported a single item, except stolen onces. If I don't like an item I just don't vote and if you downvote leave a message with the things u don't like.
Not for pissing ppl off but some have brought this upon yourselfs. Since ppl know they can earn some serious money it's got a lot more serious. Ppl quit there day job so they can full time making workshop items, it's a big risk and although kudos for them, but lets face it you only do it so u can earns some serious money which you probably couldn't in your steady day job. Because of this the quality of the items went really high in a short amount of time, this means a lot of ppl (icluding me) are having a hard time producing the same quality if you only do this as a hobby.
The complete Workshop idea of ppl making items for their favorite game is almost gone and only the highly dedicated ppl will get items in the game this way. Offcourse I rather see high quality stuff in the game, but let's face it the hole workshop is getting a dark side and will be more a popularity thing than something for the gamer and artists.
Also Valve didn't communicated at all from the start, don't expect them to do this now. They might listen to the high popular workshop artist, but not to the common ones. This is how the hole world has been build up, it's all about money and how ppl look up to you.
Even if I wouldn't get a cent for some of the items it would allready be real fun to see something u made into a game. that's why i started 3d moddeling and still am today.
The workshop gave a good change for less professional artists, but i'm affraid that fairytale is all over...... Sadly
oh boy, so much to read since yesterday. a few things i like to point out.
Competition is never fair, someone will always have an advantage due to skills, experience and what not. The battlefield on which you compete might be 'fair' but the rest is not cause there are no equal chances for everyone. Everbody is a different person with different gifts and such. Competition can only be so fair but never totally 'fair'.
Art is a tough business because in the end it boils down to a bit of luck. Either you have it or you dont. Your work can be awesome, original and well crafted, if you are at the wrong place at the right time, you are still at the wrong place. Even if you are at the right place at the right time, how do you know? You dont, even if you did everything correct.
Creative work is always subject to being subjective, you cant judge art objectivly cause art is in the eye of the beholder. You cant crack that with dedication and hardwork cause its hard coded into the human genome. And this applies to dota2 items as to any other creative piece of work. Dont get me wrong, you can evaluate craftsmanship and all that, but it might even be done crappy and yet someone likes it. (I am not gonna touch on the matter of low quality items in dota2)
I had a long text written and cut it down to these three main statements cause it really got out of hand (with me writing). All I can say is: It's sad to see the real world crash into the workshop so harsh, it was good while it lasted, maybe it comes back, maybe its not even as grim as it looks right now. I can totally understand peoples frustration. Coming from an art trade, I can only say: Good luck to all of you who try to do this fulltime. I admire your courage.
First of all Anuxi is great and deserve the best! I hope this will be beneficial for her!
Secondly please think if you would be happy that almost all stuff you did is now bundled in single chest? I would not be comfortable with that because in long term revenue will be probably smaller than having those sets sold separately. Valve probably decided Anuxi can take this risk. Also once again they made allot of people mad on her...
Third thing you all forgot how much Anuxi did for us all:
- workers avalible thread here - she was only one that helped others get into this business
- she streams constantly to promote making sets in general
- she tweets about sets made by other people constantly
- she decided to make AMA with other artist despite she could make it only with herself
Who knows maybe Valve sees this and decided to care more about her as she cares more about others...?
Sorry for this to long talk but there was to much negativity in this thread. I think if Valve would said that they risked with this chest total revenue lost for previous Anuxi sets that could be more fair, but not for Anuxi so maybe they decided not to talk at all.
Replies
What's the point of the Workshop then? Just close it down and let Valve ask the favorites personally through email for submissions, because the workshop doesn't matter at all from the looks of it, since they want to stick closely to a handful of people, there's no reason for having an open place to submit items when they're just left to rot, unless you're on a special list from people who got on it early.
i like hearing more about peoples situations and the personalities behind the avatar. i like the drive you have! take care of that hand tho!! eeek!!!!
I think Bounch put it pretty eloquently. I'm happy that Anuxi gets recognition for her hard work. Seeing the quality she puts into her sculpts has honestly given me a bar to shoot for and I really like the new Dazzle set. That being said, I don't know why the other, 11(?) sets are all of her items most of which have been in the game for some time. I really don't know why those other 11 spots could not have gone to other artist's sets in the workshop. Similar to the chests for Radiant and Dire arms where there are 10 different sets with one slim chance random.
Since the Radiant and Dire arms chests went live there has been plenty of awesome stuff on the front page of the workshop. The last patch had some new sets as well that were posted around the 8th of March. Who knows, maybe next week we'll have a new patch with some of those items made in between March 8th up to now. But seeing the chance for 10 artists to prosper in favor for one is kind of a hit.
And, just for full disclaimer, I'd be lying if some of my feelings bubbling up weren't that of jealousy. I'll own that much. It's petty and realistically I should be happy to see anyone prosper because it means that there's a chance for me. Two weeks ago I got a set onto the front page where most my stuff was sitting in 2 of the 3 top spots for a week. It may never get in and that's fine. It's just seeing a set get fast tracked within five days of submission, thrown into a chest with older items by the same artist when other cool sets have been in the workshop over the last three weeks are getting sidelined. Again, I want to clarify that this isn't against Anuxi. I like her stuff, and I'd be as frustrated if this were any other single artist being promoted over the slew of skilled items we've seen lately.
I'm still waiting for that Capri sun and handgun set for Witch Doctor. I'm also digging that Axe, so manly.
Step 1: Spam it at Volvo's facebook page
Step 2: Wait for it
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit
At least they giff diretide
That's like, normal reaction for majority of people, you'd have to be a saint or something else not to feel like that sometimes. You can be genuinely happy and jealous for someone at same time, point is where do you turn that jealousy to go, either you'll wallow in self-pity or you're gonna grind your ass to get better. That's how I treat it at least.
That said, one day I'd like to see hero in Dota 2 that's named after me. Man, imagine that fucking honor. :V
Maybe eventually Valve will remember what the workshop was originally for so i can come back.
Anyway, i like that you guys are at least trying to fix it instead of giving up like me. :]
It's still nowhere near as bad as the TF2 workshop/update situation, but I'm always hyper-wary of signs that Dota is heading in that sorta direction. Same bad situation, just different causes.
At first glance it's an understandable business practice (obviously businesses exist to make money), but if they keep relying on a very select few people to be doing a majority of the work, what happens when those people no longer want to contribute for whatever reason? Instead of having a large, devoted base of artists to continue to draw from, they will get to the point where they alienate everyone else and when that well is dry then it's an uncomfortable situation for them.
I thought Valve was more of a long-term thinking company, but this seems quite the contrary. More happy workshop artists not only equals more art and sets, but more competition between everyone which will only propel the quality upwards, which is beneficial for everyone involved. Not to mention there will always be more choices, and nothing says that other people or even new members can't make a set that's incredibly popular. Who knows, the 'best/highest selling set ever' might not even have come out yet, and it could be by anyone here, if they don't get discouraged first by how Valve is handling the workshop currently. By limiting the amount of people involved you are harshly limiting creativity.
I just think it's better for the community as a whole INCLUDING Valve if they spread the love around and encourage more people to participate rather than alienate a majority of their current workshoppers. I look up to Valve a ton, but for the first time ever I'm really questioning their decision making abilities, at least as far as the workshop is concerned.
I don't have anything to complain about, seeing as I just started this and can't expect to get accepted right off the bat. But as someone who is concerned about not using an organization or an affiliation with a team/player as any sort of crutch for my work, now or in the future, it is really discouraging to hear about this, and to see what it's doing to the community.
I know that letters to Valve have failed to result in anything, but is there anything that we can do as a community to bring more exposure to the work of workshop artists who aren't already as well known?
It hardly seems like a solution to the real problem, but I would like to think that something positive could come out of all this contention.
While i understand the pain. Everyone has danced around the subject that Anuxi's items make valve lots of money. her sets sell, her single items sell. Her dedicated single item chest is still selling like 50+ a day. that chest is what? six months old now?
While it would be amazing for valve to show more equality to other artists. each new artist poses a risk. they accept your set that community up voted... but maybe up voting doesn't correlate with purchases. Anuxi and her sets are a known quantity, I'm sure Valve has an employee who has an Anuxi algorithm. Hero popularity X anuxi feathers X in game quality level = X CASH in bank.
With that being said Anuxi did make a set for LC with the purpose of getting it in for the spring event. while that set was added later to the game (probably the Anuxi Algorithm at work) they didn't go with her and instead promoted other artists, who from my humble point of view built sets that had more to do with the Chinese new year then anuxi's greko roman horse head armor.
Valve very much is first a "for Profit" business. They come with all the "evil" corporate trimmings.
now... does anything i've said help... probably not...
But you can't Shout "favoritism" when the math means that anuxi is the bigger cash cow. not leveraging her work would be akin to cutting off a nose to spite the face.
Could Valve do more to showcase other sets and artists?
probably...
what would that look like? would you want a valve/dota2.com run section were they could showcase short interview videos to help other artists build a following? do other artists even have the time for something as short as a VINE or a 2:30 second interview.
Would reworking how people get notified a Favorited artist / contributor has posted new work to the workshop? at the moment even though i am subscribed to many of you guys I never ever get notified in steam that you've made new work. I come here to find that out.
Would adding a pre-purchase (almost kickstarter like) button to the sets that made up vote milestones make it easier for valve to A) gauge actual sales of a set.
the other side of this is what could polycount do as a community to expose more artists. an idea that people would probably feel is against there basic interests but if as a whole everyone promoted everyones work isn't that more exposure / a bigger audience / a greater chance at acceptance. what happened to polycounters putting the Polycount green happy scary face on their item splash images? why doesn't everyone link back to their polycount forum threads in the item description. why don't you post process work in the Dota 2 community art / screenshot section.
anyways END rant. when i get another chance i'll edit the shit outa this for posterity.
and i'll apologize now if i've completely misread the convo, pissed people off, or talked out of my ass about things i really shouldn't have.
There is talk of a Reddit AMA with Workshop Artists that was being put together in this thread. It would be a great opportunity to not only talk about the work that we do but also discuss some of the issues with the Workshop as a whole.
There is a Google Doc in that thread if you want to register your interest.
As a quick aside, I'm actually working on this. I wanted to keep it a secret until I had more built up/ready to go, but I plan on having a series of spotlight interviews of artists in this community that have been putting out fantastic work and deserve more recognition.
to me, that was not the issue, the problem that i saw, and again, Anuxi's work is amazing, and i keep watching her stream and learning new things, is that her set was added after the event, to me at least, that seemed a bit wrong, i understand perfectly why they did it, and from a business perspective it makes sense.
Lets say, Valve does become the equality gods, and add every highly rated set to a que list. Even then, that would become a huge problem because it would take forever for a set to get in, and then a lot of artist would be complaining "my set will never get in because there are too many submissions".
the solution to that would be to increase the average amount of sets accepted right? even then there would be people complaining about there being too many sets to pick from, and that the sets will not remotely be profitable at all.
and now since its harder for sets to get in, I can imagine a lot of artist disbanding because it wouldnt be worth their time or isnt profittable enough.
so it would have all the same side effects as of now.
just speculation tho, but I highly anticipate this would happen.
like what poodleswinthguns said , im sure Valve is using some sort of algorithem when deciding what sets get in.
I dont think Valve is completely ignoring everyone, a lot of sets get in from unknown artist. There is a bubble ofcourse, but those outside the bubble also get stuff accepted...
I think this whole fairness thing is going to have the same outcome as it is now.
I think the whole fariness thing worked before, but it wont work anymore with the rising amount of workshop artist entering every day. so to get in the bubble you have to do something that other workshoppers are not doing, something unique. which is exactly what is happening. Alot of people are reverting to tournament sets. What I noticed that worked is good marketing and promotion, me and my brother have been doing a video for all our sets to try and increase the fanbase of the set we worked on, and it seems to be working.
I love her work, I've bought her sets, i hope nothing i said prior could be misconstrued as shit talking.
the only thing I will not take back and DID mean. was the Anuxi feather count to cash amount algorithm that shit is real and nobody can tell me it's not.
you do amazing feathers.
Why would anyone need to be concerned about Anuxi seeing this discussion? The issue is with Valve, she got nothing to do with the problem.
I do agree with you about the encorage thing, some of the updates this year were really demotivational, like updates just for items bound to championships and updates with item for just one organization.
And the lack of communication makes everything worse
while true. when every post on the subject calls you out by name. it can begin to look like the mob has bones to pick.
As several others said, none of this should be about Anuxi. If people have beef its with Valve. I have been a fan if Anuxi's work pre-dota, and love the dota hats she makes. I think some people are taking this the wrong way. I finally had something added after trying for about 2 years (including tf2) I have faith that we will see more content added each month. I agree some, as I previously stated, don't deserve to workshop. I think as Valve evolves Steam ugc delivery will evolve too.
TL: DR
Anuxi rules, her doto hats rule, congrats again!
I've got a lot more work to do, if I can get doto hats in, so can you!
Based on the language that Valve uses they clearly see Anuxi as a commodity:
"In addition, this treasure has a chance of containing:
A chest of sets created by the community contributor Anuxi."
This isn't a bad thing. Anuxi's items sell and with good reason.
Chemical Alia, It is really sad to see how hard you work and what you have to work with and have less than you would like to show for it financially. I really like your work and would love to see more of it in game.
I think the way valve feels is that workshop contributors are hobbyists (and I am so for me that is fair) and they feel that any amount they give to any artist is a blessing. Obviously there are people producing high quality work that rely on accepted items to survive. Unfortunately I cannot see them changing the direction they are currently moving in. Money comes from branding and they want to have strong brands, names of artists and players alike are strong brands. Occasionally they will still add items from lesser known artists but my guess is that the future of the workshop is not going to be a viable income for more than a few people.
My only solution would be for the really serious artists to try and establish brands of your own. I know that isn't a very enjoyable prospect for most artists,and it wont be easy, Anuxi has worked hard for hers but it seems like the most assured way to get items accepted.
Nobody here has slagged off Anuxi, I don't quite know where people are getting this idea from.
We're all quite happy for her I'm sure, and she produces really solid work. Not to mention she like all of us here would be able to appreciate where we're coming from.
I do sincerely think that with the developments over the last few months, perhaps even the last year after TI3 Valve has taken steps which really hurt the wider workshop community looking for long term stability. This most recent chest, and the other chests are imo a really good place to start a discussion. Chests seem to me like a form of short-termism. They gain traction and sales really quickly and fall off really fast. A quick cash grab if you will. Chests that continue to pull in sales after several months are a rarity.
In the past single items used to go into the store as well as go in via chests. That was maybe 2 years ago or something? Now they only go in via chests if at all - this means that artists who can only afford the time to do single items only have this single, short term avenue to get items into the game. The mercurial nature of the workshop compounds this problem, because it means we need to produce items in great quantities to assure ourselves of getting as good a chance as possible.
Now this approach is the one that Valve is starting to use for sets as well, probably to try to cope with the insane amount of work the community is putting out. And this latest chest is where Valve I think has seriously dropped the ball. All the pieces of Anuxi's set chest are available on the community market other than the dazzle set. If people want the other pieces they can get them at half the key price on the market. So the main draw other than a casual purchase really is the dazzle set, which has markedly inflated value on the market now. I hear about 30 bucks or something. However, since we get reduced percentages from market sales (from recent experience, I'd say 1/4 of what we usually get. So around 6.25%) for each $30 purchase on the market Anuxi is getting maybe around 1.80. Add in the key sales and that sounds pretty good, but if the key sales drop off like the other chests and the value of the set on the market goes down, then I honestly think Anuxi is the one who gets shafted.
That is even before I can get started on how putting all those easily available items into a chest hurts Valve's reputation with us, hurts the principles I've always felt the workshop aspired towards, and hurts the people who're relying on this for a living. Sets are only available in limited quantity, and are one of the few opportunities to get stuff into the game. For Valve to basically take all the available opportunities this latest chest provides and give them to a single artist when there are tons of sets on the workshop waiting and artists praying for approval is like a huge slap to the face. I'm a little distanced from this all because I work a full time job, I can only imagine what it's like for people who gave up their jobs for the workshop.
Valve has always played favourites, that's really nothing new. But combined with how many people there are vying for places and the new way that they're letting items in, imo it's becoming a bigger issue than ever.
I don't mind chests really. They're a good bit of fun, and for the lesser workshop artists like myself who can't keep hammering out sets every week they've always been a source of hope. But they really should not be the only way to get stuff into the game, and I hope they don't become the norm. Unfortunately between the volume of tournament/pro/community sponsored items and how Valve is experimenting with sets in a chest system I'm not particularly optimistic.
speaking about community market. If nobody has taken a look. Check out how CS:GO is currently setup.
Zero in game Market outside of keys. reduced chest occurrence rates.
and Every item from a chest is immediately marketable. the community market then decides the price of any item. with new items like the new dazzle set being High 30+ dollars until market / consumer saturation hits and the price begins to fall to what people are willing to sell for and pay for.
Something about the new set chests in dota / the way CS:GO is setup makes me believe that dota will follow sooner rather then later.
good or bad... i guess we'll see.
Letting the community decide the price of items sounds cool, in theory. The market does everything, which is something that Valve seems to like. System-ising stuff like that so they reduce the load on themselves(I quite enjoy that too actually :P). However that will provide an even less stable environment for artists and take away most of the control Valve has on the economy. Furthermore the community prices items (and likewise votes for them) based on their popularity, as opposed to artistic merit. As artists the hope that Valve will judge our items on their artistic merit is an important one which keeps us working imo. This has been called into question recently with the tournament sets, and you're already reading some of the backlash.
Considering that the Dota 2 store will not go away at the very least because of tournament and pro items, I don't see a community market only system as a likely scenario.
Also, as an interface the community market is sorely lacking, and as it stands the official store is a much more visible and official way of finding items
If thats the case and you want to do this, I urge you to get together with friends and people you work well with together and make a brand for yourselves. If they want brands, then we'll give it to them.
BLUE SUN RISING
Giving Anuxi the original chest made sense as she was in many ways the first recognized workshop celebrity. I find the decision to give her a second one very odd and unfair to everyone else that has worked hard since then.
I really think they (whoever is actually pushing workshop related content) just aren't considering the implications of the workshop system. By supporting so many of us over time they've created an expectation from us that they would continue to do so and I don't think they realize it. They have no way of knowing any of our situations or understanding our perspectives on it. From their perspective they're helping tournaments and artists and consistently putting out new items. Not thinking about how the rest of us are getting left behind.
Honestly I don't know how much longer I can continue doing this full-time if something doesn't change.
Then again, I don't have any other alternative where I can make an item and it could have a chance of making money and grow my portfolio at the same time.
What concerns me is i don't see a huge amount of room for single items anymore, and singles have always been a great way for artists with less time or experience to break into the workshop or at least just be involved.
So from my perspective (which is based on a huge amount of presumption) it looks like Single sets, Bundled sets, Pro Team/Player Sets, Tournament Sets and Treasure Chest sets. Which is a pretty diverse selection of entry points for artists making sets.
For singles items, Bundles may be an option, like the bundle of hairdo's and the tournament set of two Pudge weapons. Outside of that will Valve continue to add single item chests? are single items still viable?
This, in a group or just as yourself. Anuxi and Redmoon are both great examples of how to do this and do it well.
No reason to make single items anymore?
*cough* insanaphobia, bladeofevilsbane, and myself are in talks
WE EVEN HAVE A LOGO...somewhere.
#sorryNotSorry #justKiddingMaybe
That's because it's here
--edit-- ah damn blade beat me to it.
then i take yellow XD
This is really bad news for singles guys, I can see that isn't even worth trying so, gg.
Light of the Solar Divine - $1.24
Bessings of the Wildwing - $0.51
Aspects of Summer Set - $0.74
Slithereen Nobility - $1.06
Snowdrop - $1.63
Nightsilver Sentinel - $2.10
Featherfall - $1.95
Divine Ascension - $0.55
Crescent Moon - $1.59
Equine Emissary - $2.00
Yet the key costs $2.50, and the chest doesn't even have a chance for a courier? only an average "very rare" set that has no reason to be higher quality than Mythical just to bait traders into opening it, really??? WHY did they even make this chest?? It's so biased just like those Dota-cinema and ticket-promoted low quality cosmetics, now it's all about marketing and nothing about quality
:poly136: I've not really ever worked with anyone else. For me I feel that I'm in awkward place where I dont have the level of skill to offer anything to anyone else. But I do think the Red Moon is a great idea you guys have and I'm sure similar partnerships will help a lot of the best contributors here.
Some of the most expensive items on the market are singles. I think there will still be a place for them, albeit a limited one. I know the standard key price is what Valve is all about but what if they did cheaper chests for just singles?
Even if they don't do that I can see valve still doing the very best singles every so often. Lets see what happens with Prostomogy and the chest he uploaded.
I've started and quit several times making items for the workshop. I keep getting back because ater a few months i do get something ingame, (although I'm affraid that's something in the past) and I just like playing the game. The problems these last few months are that instead of the workshop being a nice showcase for items, it's becoming a more and more saturated business.
Havent had a single item for the last 4 months being on the front page, ppl get 1k votes in less than half an hour. Ppl downvote items so there items will get a higher rating. The innocents of the whole workshop has been gone for some time I'm affraid. I've never downvoted/reported a single item, except stolen onces. If I don't like an item I just don't vote and if you downvote leave a message with the things u don't like.
Not for pissing ppl off but some have brought this upon yourselfs. Since ppl know they can earn some serious money it's got a lot more serious. Ppl quit there day job so they can full time making workshop items, it's a big risk and although kudos for them, but lets face it you only do it so u can earns some serious money which you probably couldn't in your steady day job. Because of this the quality of the items went really high in a short amount of time, this means a lot of ppl (icluding me) are having a hard time producing the same quality if you only do this as a hobby.
The complete Workshop idea of ppl making items for their favorite game is almost gone and only the highly dedicated ppl will get items in the game this way. Offcourse I rather see high quality stuff in the game, but let's face it the hole workshop is getting a dark side and will be more a popularity thing than something for the gamer and artists.
Also Valve didn't communicated at all from the start, don't expect them to do this now. They might listen to the high popular workshop artist, but not to the common ones. This is how the hole world has been build up, it's all about money and how ppl look up to you.
Even if I wouldn't get a cent for some of the items it would allready be real fun to see something u made into a game. that's why i started 3d moddeling and still am today.
The workshop gave a good change for less professional artists, but i'm affraid that fairytale is all over...... Sadly
Competition is never fair, someone will always have an advantage due to skills, experience and what not. The battlefield on which you compete might be 'fair' but the rest is not cause there are no equal chances for everyone. Everbody is a different person with different gifts and such. Competition can only be so fair but never totally 'fair'.
Art is a tough business because in the end it boils down to a bit of luck. Either you have it or you dont. Your work can be awesome, original and well crafted, if you are at the wrong place at the right time, you are still at the wrong place. Even if you are at the right place at the right time, how do you know? You dont, even if you did everything correct.
Creative work is always subject to being subjective, you cant judge art objectivly cause art is in the eye of the beholder. You cant crack that with dedication and hardwork cause its hard coded into the human genome. And this applies to dota2 items as to any other creative piece of work. Dont get me wrong, you can evaluate craftsmanship and all that, but it might even be done crappy and yet someone likes it. (I am not gonna touch on the matter of low quality items in dota2)
I had a long text written and cut it down to these three main statements cause it really got out of hand (with me writing). All I can say is: It's sad to see the real world crash into the workshop so harsh, it was good while it lasted, maybe it comes back, maybe its not even as grim as it looks right now. I can totally understand peoples frustration. Coming from an art trade, I can only say: Good luck to all of you who try to do this fulltime. I admire your courage.
First of all Anuxi is great and deserve the best! I hope this will be beneficial for her!
Secondly please think if you would be happy that almost all stuff you did is now bundled in single chest? I would not be comfortable with that because in long term revenue will be probably smaller than having those sets sold separately. Valve probably decided Anuxi can take this risk. Also once again they made allot of people mad on her...
Third thing you all forgot how much Anuxi did for us all:
- workers avalible thread here - she was only one that helped others get into this business
- she streams constantly to promote making sets in general
- she tweets about sets made by other people constantly
- she decided to make AMA with other artist despite she could make it only with herself
Who knows maybe Valve sees this and decided to care more about her as she cares more about others...?
Sorry for this to long talk but there was to much negativity in this thread. I think if Valve would said that they risked with this chest total revenue lost for previous Anuxi sets that could be more fair, but not for Anuxi so maybe they decided not to talk at all.