N99 Pistol from Fallout New Vegas (Critique are welcome)

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  • alex_kim
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    wormo 

    Hello, wormo, nice to meet you.
    I personally like your work. Your nes and motorcycle is very awesome. I wish I can create motorcycle like you one day. :-)
  • alex_kim
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    @wormo

    Thanks wormo! Nice to meet you.

    I like your nes and motorcycle. I wish one day I can create motorcycle just like you did. :-)
  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    Brian "Panda" Choi

    This is what I've done so far:

    Blue circle is what I am doing now. The yellow circles are the base metal material that I do not touch yet. 





    I guess mine is too black. The base color shall be more "sky-blue" and reflects the light.
    Also, there are a lot of patterns such as scratches, noise, dust, dots... (I do not consider rust as pattern since rust is more like a spot)
  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    good job alex! I really like seeing you getting better ! Finish that damn pistol already and make something more awesome! :D
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
    The edge wear should NOT be universally even across all edges on the gun.  Consider where the gun would be making contact with surfaces the most often.

    Good progress.  You're right, that gun is too black. 
  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 

    Thanks Larry. I gotta finish this as early as possible.
  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    Brian "Panda" Choi



    I feel challenging to create the texture map with complex color spectrum. For example, this metal has black blue to gray blue to sky blue with green, purple, and red excluding rust.

    However, I guess I figured out the approach which is using brush not fill layer :-)

    I used to add a lot of layers to create the complex color. However, It will simply mix up the color to create another simple color. 
    I need to use black mask and brush. And, I need to pound it manually. 
    In this case, the base color is far black blue. But, I add sky blue using brush to create 'spectrum' :-)

    Hope this is ok.

  • Brian "Panda" Choi
    This isn't ok.

    It got all cloudy instead of looking like a brushed metal.

    Do you see the metal as cloudy in the original concept?  Or do you want it to be cloudy?


  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    Brian "Panda" Choi

    As Brian suggested, I remove cloudy texture (at least the center of the mesh). Although I left some foggy texture on some area that I assume fingers touch mostly.

    I also add some metallic material as well.
  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    Brian "Panda" Choi

    I also add some blue color on the mesh. Consider this as Type B




  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Your metal texture reaaaally improved :) I would still add some more scratches on some edges, but you are on the good way!
  • alex_kim
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    @Olingova

    Nice to meet you Olingova :-)

    As you suggested, I added some scratches mostly on the edge part, and little bit on the face part.



  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    Brian "Panda" Choi

    I am now doing the body part



    If slide is the blue-cold-tic metal, the body is the hot-red-tic metal :-)

  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    Brian "Panda" Choi

    This is what I've done so far.

    Hope you people like it :-)


  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    You need to make adjustments and add a mask to your roughness. Also all of your edges have this line that is supposed to be damage but it is never a straight line, and definetly NOT everywhere
  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 

    Could you please tell me detail? 

    So, I need to add roughness that means metal shall be less shining
    I need to scratch out the some edges not every edges but that cannot be straight line.

    Am I right?
  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    Brian "Panda" Choi

    Before I apply the Larry's suggestion, I decided to modify my action slide first
    I remove some foggy from surface.
    I also adjust the brightness of the scratches and color of metal material from blue to blue gray as well.



  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    Brian "Panda" Choi

    I add blue-tic color on the metal of action slide


  • alex_kim
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    Sorry I was late. I was struggling for texturing. 

    I actually must tell this first. I changed my reference or "ideal goal" for my texturing

    https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/59835/?tab=3&selected_game=130&navtag=http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/ajax/modimages/?id=59835&user=1&gid=130

    This is what I want to copy as same as possible.

    And, this is what I've done so far:



    Mine is kind of... peel off too much.

    But If I add more color, it will looking like blue metal. Not blue-tic metal.

    I hope I am on the right track :-)
  • alex_kim
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    Hmm.. Interesting:


  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    Alex I think you have to understand that if you work with materials that are ready and inside substance painter you will only get so far. Yes you can adjust the material inside substance painter and make it have scratches and damage, but you can make your own material that is close to your reference and then make scratches etc.

    Also, sticking too much in one project you cannot see what is wrong with it. I suggest you try and finish this by the end if december and then try and do the environmental challenge for january-february
  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    One more thing. The 'blue tic' you are saying is not in the metal, it is the reflection from the sky. In general you might see this having 'problems' with color but it is just the environmental reflections
  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 

    You are right Larry. Substance Painter provides very good base material. But, I guess base is not good enough.

    I guess it's time to learn create my own texture using designer or photoshop.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
    You don't need to necessarily go back into Substance Designer and  make your own metal.  It's my belief, for this, there's enough free materials online and already loaded for you to make something.

    Buck up and finish texturing everything.  Commit to just getting as far as you can, and then we can take a look at what you can do to improve it.  You're gonna have to put in the time, not try to find a work around, so you can understand the fundamentals of this part of game art.

    Stop working on the action slide, and get the rest of the components done.
  • Zodd
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    Zodd polycounter lvl 6
    Hello,

    Its nice that you are sticking with this for so long, but i agree with larry that too much time on a single project can potentially lead to "tunnel vision" at best :) so i agree that you should just finish this by the end of the month (for instance :) ) and move on to next fresh piece and apply everything you've learned working on this model.
    That being said, i believe a good fundamental knowledge of baking normal maps is essential, so i would suggest you go on a "pilgrimage" to the technical talk subforum and check the normal map baking and in depth explanations regarding their use and creation, since each piece will require specific approach to making low poly and/or cage for proper baking and there is no workaround except learning :)
    I mention normal baking because i can still see some seams on the action slide, and they could be avoided easily since you have enough geometry for proper bake.
    However - As both of the guys said, just finish this piece it doesn't matter if you are not 100% satisfied, just get it out and start something new, its gonna go much much easier.

    For the materials in substance, you always have to have in mind that pbr will reflect the color of the sky off off reflective surfaces, so tumble the model around as you work, it may not be blue in albedo :)

    Good job on the progress so far and sticking with it, the improvement is obvious, keep it up.
  • alex_kim
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    @Zodd

    Hello, Zodd. Nice to meet you.

    I am considering that maybe I keep doing this until the Christmas. And, then either I success or not, I plan to move on then revisiti again.
    I actually have a plan to create SF style grenade which is simpler than this N99 pistol. But, I believe that will be very beneficial to me to learn texturing.

    About the seams... do you have any idea why it happens, and how can I remove it?
    I tried to get the programs that is very popular to bake the normal map. However, seems like it always create the seam.

    I am glad I have a progress. I wish I have the "result" more than "progress". So, I can take a rest in the Christmas.

    Thanks. 

    PS- I love your texturing work. Your microscope and console is so realistic and gorgeous. What programs do you use? I wish I can get a lesson from you.
     



  • Zodd
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    Zodd polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks, for the kind words

    Ill try and explain to the best of my english :)

    Programs used are maya-xnormal-substance painter and marmoset for previewing/screenshots

    For the seams really go and read the threads in technical talk about normal maps, people there explained it much much better than i could
    Quick explanation would be you are missing soft/hard edges and should use cage for baking, use the cage if the seams are still visible after you've tuned the soft/hard edges, these are really important when doing bakes because the influence the angle from which the normal map is going to be "projected" onto low poly model, but either way go to the treads and read them, i always go back to them when im doing bakes because every mesh is specific in its own way, and there is no "one solution to fix them all" approach to baking normal maps, but there are some general guidelines used to minimize bad bakes/errors/seams etc..

    One thing comes to mind, can you share your uv's ? maybe you have issues there (like different texel density and shell sizes)
     
    Now regarding materials/metals
    As much as substance painter is really a great tool to make your life easier for making textures, i tend to stay away from presets because i like to have control over every aspect of material (roughness/color in particular)
    Just think about how it would be made and weathered in real life, this case i guess there is really no paint over the gun, but very weathered metal with layers of non metallic dirt/oil/grease... think about what happens with the material when in use, like the front of the gun heats up and cools, giving metal a more matte look, oil tends to permanently matte the shiny metal as well, rust tends to give it variation and contrast not only in roughness but in metalness and color, so is nice to break up the "everything is blue metal" effect.

    Result comes from doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting things to change (eventually they do :D ) so seriously don't worry about not getting results immediately, just do it to the best of your current abilities and move on to the next one. The idea for the grenade is very good for learning the baking process, so 100% support decision :)

    It's the breakdown process that's important (at least i think so :) ) other technical stuff you can easily find online.

    So take breaks, take time to study the reference/real world reference and keep up the good work.

    Cheers :)


  • alex_kim
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    @Zodd 

    Hello.

    First, I need to say this.

    As Larry suggested, those colors of metal are basically colors from the light.

    So I convert reference image as black and white such as 



    From now on, every metals is nothing but black and white


    Hello, Zodd. I really thanks to your advice.

    As you said, I am using brush a lot to create dusty, rusty, oily, or matte of specific parts of metal. But, it never worked out.

    At first, I thought maybe because of lack of talent or lack of years of practice. But, as you said, brush is difficult tool to create such complicated chaotic natural pattern.

    So, I decided start again from the beginning (damn, this is 6th times that I flip over my table)

    Use methods that is provided by painter such as "fill", "generator", or so far. Of course, I created base metal as you said(Empty layers with parameters). I am playing with this parameters.

    And, this is what I've got



    Tell you the truth, I believe this is not perfect. This is merely "base". However, I think I reach the limit.

    As Brian suggested, I will texture on other parts but the quality will be around something like this level. I don't want to be Mr. negative. 
    However, this is what I can do my best so far.

  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    ok Alex, one last try. The last reference picture that you show makes it very clear.
    The gun has 2 materials.
    1 material is this silver metal and above it there is another material, which is paint.
    So one thing i can say is wrong with your pistol, is that this "black paint" material that you have, has metalic value. Paint is not metal, so take the metalic to totally black and play a little bit with the roughness to get some reflection. VERY little reflection, do not overdo it.
    For the metal material that is the scratches, take the metalic to 0.9 (not full white) and use some color like this
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/89/ec/ce89ecb5520c77174489368dc2371024--blue-black-paint-colors-black-and-blue-decor.jpg the top 2 colors are okay.
    Then play with the mask generators to get a good and realistic scratch effect. Alegorithmic has a great video on this that you can copy EXACTLY what he does

    One last thing, you have to put some color variation for your black paint. Also do not make it fully black, but dark gray. Nothing in the earth is fully black ;) Even vantablack has 0.9 black in it.
  • Zodd
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    Zodd polycounter lvl 6
    Ok,  now slowly start increasing value and take care not to increase saturation too much,  essentially make it lighter gray and just a bit blue-ish but dont overdo it

    Sry for simple reply,   im typing this from phone and cant open too many images :) 
  • alex_kim
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    @Larry 
    @Zodd 

    Thanks both of you.

    Damn, I watched that tutorial several months ago. During that time, I did not understand. But, now, I can.

    This is my base metal:



    And, this is my base metal with paint (don't worry about the color. It is for distinguishing purpose). This one has no material.



    This is my second paint pattern. This is steel paint material without metal map



    This is my third paint pattern. This is steel wear and rust without metal map as well



    This is the all of paint pattern combine into one. Now, I am going to convert
    blue to dark grey
    red to middle grey
    green to light grey



    This is the result. I change the order of layers and color value as well.
    This is not done yet. 


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